Covid19 Part XVIII-25,473 in ROI(1,736 deaths) 5,760 in NI (551 deaths)(30/06)Read OP

lawrencesummers · 24-06-2020 10:53AM

Good to hear that the EU is considering a ban on American (And other countries, but America has the largest amount) travellers that will be reviewed every two weeks.

It would probably be to much politically for any one country or small group of countries to ban travel from the US.

If they were allowed to travel it could well mean all of our hard work over the lockdown was wasted.

Plus we get the added bonus of Trump needing his nappy changed once he is asked in public about it.

Drumpot · 24-06-2020 10:55AM

bennyineire wrote: »

Listen to Seamus, it's clearly apparent that he knows a lot more about what he is talking about than you and as a developer I completely agree with him.

I did listen to him and thanked his post for trying to explain it to me.

I was just joking that I don’t fully understand what he was talking about..

growleaves · 24-06-2020 11:05AM

https://mobile.twitter.com/stillgray/status/1274869093087076353

ixoy · 24-06-2020 11:06AM

Couldn't help but think of some posters here with this article:

Local Man A Bit Disappointed By The Drop In Cases If He’s Being Honest

Snow Garden · 24-06-2020 11:10AM

ixoy wrote: »

Couldn't help but think of some posters here with this article:

Local Man A Bit Disappointed By The Drop In Cases If He’s Being Honest

That's brilliant! There are loads of people like that.

caveat emptor · 24-06-2020 11:14AM

Great that things getting better in New York. Flights reopening to New York not smart though.

It's a hub. Dublin is a hub. If some wants to fly here from deepest darkest, god fearing Texas where outbreak in full swing then they would probably go via New York.

Great if that wasn't the case but we live in a very interconnected world. People who dismiss this risk either:

Understand travel very well and depend upon it for a living. i.e a pilot / airline executive who has been furloughed.
or don't understand travel at all and think all flights are full of people only going from A to B like Dublin to New York.

Aer Lingus, which has also continued to operate a reduced schedule of flights to European and north American destinations, is scheduled to fly to Amsterdam, London, Chicago and New York on Tuesday.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/consumer/ryanair-flies-from-dublin-to-milan-as-european-air-routes-start-to-re-open-1.4285791

Deeper Blue · 24-06-2020 11:17AM

ixoy wrote: »

Couldn't help but think of some posters here with this article:

Local Man A Bit Disappointed By The Drop In Cases If He’s Being Honest

Judging by some of the posts here yesterday I don't think that article is far from reality ðŸ˜

24-06-2020 11:27AM

Azatadine wrote: »

I've been in James and the Mater over the last few weeks (as a visitor) and the amount of doctors, nurses and staff walking around without masks is astounding. Shocking actually.

Maybe they have had it already

wadacrack · 24-06-2020 11:28AM

Drumpot wrote: »

There is a difference between between being overly negative and discussing prudent measures to maintain our current status.

Strengths:
- we suppressed numbers well
- population mostly complied
- government eventually acted quickly after initial slow response
- healthcare was not overrun
- healthcare workers here and abroad galvanised to help

Weakness
- initially very slow to respond
- Ireland’s death statistics per head actually globally quite bad
- globalised economy so we are exposed
- Dublin an international hub so vulnerable to countries with bad outbreaks
- mostly non compliance makes wearing
- complacency setting in (Psychologically this was going to happen)
- poor education and communication still , perhaps more down to belligerent population
- lack of PPE

Opportunities
- make masks mandatory
- beef up security measures at airports and ports for COVID, eg temp check machines
- contact tracing app
- adapt economy and business with an 18 month timescale to be reviewed, looking at stop/start measures and how business can continue during it (eg pubs still serving pints etc)
- focus on increasing farming capacity (at least work out if we have enoughTo be self sustaining if this get really bad in winter)
- Self sustaining SWOT analysis
- Educate people. A lot of people still don’t understand elements of the pandemic, why Should they ? This is the first time our generation has suffered this sort of crisis.
- Get masks for everybody nationally , make it mandatory, this also helps make it normal and proper etiquette to protect others. “You wear a mask to protect others”

Threats
- non compliance of measures - people travelling where they want, not wearing masks etc
- lack of regulation on foreign travel in and out undos most of the hard work
- Populist strategies being employed at the expense of prudence
- bigger economic loss due to failed planning and lack of infrastructure put in place to mitigate future wave
- complacency and restriction fatigue
- pandering to EU/Global partners by having reduced measures to protect us from their populations
- Northern Ireland , somebody needs to slap somebody on the face with a wet fish And get working with them to have Cross border agreement
- Panic, if we get a second wave that is much worse

I know there is a lot more that can be added to that list. I think we are in a superb situation to manage this but I’m not convinced that we are making the most of our advantage.

Agree with all of this. Sums it up quite well. Id be hopeful we are putting the measures in place to suppress this. In time I think masks will be worn. Education will take time sadly

speckle · 24-06-2020 11:42AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Maybe they have had it already

Or even taking part in a study/trial, as long as they use all care when intereacting with patients.
Maybe not working in the covid section? Some one should ask one of them straight out if concerned.

TomSweeney · 24-06-2020 11:58AM

CalamariFritti wrote: »

But some people seem to wear black tinted glasses here all the time. Bit like that cool smiley you used.
Literally seeking out any negative bit they can find and pop it up here. Spurious claims and Mays and Could be's the whole shebang. Like a little doomsday collection.

Not sure why they do it. Is it the private extension of clickbait, looking for 'thanks'? Is it attention seeking? Is it a misguided attempt of scaring people into vigilance? Are they trembling messes who cant help themselves? I don't know but It just doesn't seem healthy.

I think they are scared and they want people to reply telling them they are being ridiculous - so they can calm down a bit

ACitizenErased · 24-06-2020 12:05PM

RE: antibody testing - they’re completely inaccurate and missing out on mass amounts of the population who could’ve been infected. It’ll be months before antibody tests give a real look at seroprevalence. We’re closer to herd immunity than previous studies suggest.

Widdensushi · 24-06-2020 12:10PM

ixoy wrote: »

Couldn't help but think of some posters here with this article:

Local Man A Bit Disappointed By The Drop In Cases If He’s Being Honest

That's gas, it will be even more so when the teachers have to go back

Martina1991 · 24-06-2020 12:26PM

ACitizenErased wrote:

RE: antibody testing - theyre completely inaccurate and missing out on mass amounts of the population who could've been infected. It'll be months before antibody tests give a real look at seroprevalence. We're closer to herd immunity than previous studies suggest.

That isn't true. How can you conclude there are mass amounts of the population that have been infected?

bb1234567 · 24-06-2020 12:37PM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

RE: antibody testing - they’re completely inaccurate and missing out on mass amounts of the population who could’ve been infected. It’ll be months before antibody tests give a real look at seroprevalence. We’re closer to herd immunity than previous studies suggest.

Based on what evidence?

Antibody testting in some regions such as Lombardy has shown that mass amounts of the populations have been infected, 60% of people in Bergamo, for example. I think 30% of people in New York. Wasn't London 20-25%. They are huge numbers So why do you think those tests are underepresenting seroprevalence in other areas when they are indeed showing very high rates of infection in places with recognised large scale outbreaks?

If antibody testing was showing that hotspots had suspiciously low rates of infection, then maybe the point would be valid, but they aren't, places like Bergamo [probably much higher rate of infection than anybody would have guessed.

Drumpot · 24-06-2020 12:53PM

wadacrack wrote: »

Agree with all of this. Sums it up quite well. Id be hopeful we are putting the measures in place to suppress this. In time I think masks will be worn. Education will take time sadly

Actually thought of a few more things we could work on:

- encouraging households to have 2-3 weeks groceries where possible (staples like toilet role, long lasting goods (reduce panic)
- encourage more grocery delivery infrastructure and usage
- encourage one person in household to do shopping
- encourage everybody to have a basic thermometer and take temp as soon as they may feel unwell (sounds obvious but I’m not sure everybody does this).
- Vitamin D recommended, particularly at winter time (can’t believe this still isn’t publicly communicated , VIT D deficiency is a massive variable in severe patients. This is an easy recommendation that everyone can fix and potentially reduces severe cases or the severity of severe cases
- better forums/discussions , more informed discussion that’s about working out how we will live with it and manage it. Instead of lectures from politicians who are quite often weeks behind information curves
-more engagement with communities on how to manage this long term (an extension of my adapt plan where we try to figure out how to live with the virus and keep things relatively normal
- in short be more proactive and not just be reactive and making decisions/plans when the crisis is here.

A lot of this is about changing our habits now so we won’t be put out as much of a second wave arrives. We saw a glimpse of the panic when it arrived. To be honest I was fine because I had taken stock of warnings and had planned in advance but there’s no reason why everybody can’t be ready without having the wits scared out of them. That’s all I want our country to do, take prudent steps to reduce the impact of a potentially worse second wave. I just feel there is so much we can do now and I’m not sure any of it is being done.

Away With The Fairies · 24-06-2020 12:54PM

ixoy wrote: »

Couldn't help but think of some posters here with this article:

Local Man A Bit Disappointed By The Drop In Cases If He’s Being Honest

I know this is a satire website but nobody wants a rise in cases or a second wave. If they do, there's something seriously wrong with them.

SeaBreezes · 24-06-2020 12:58PM

Does anyone have recent studies on CFR and overall mortality rates?

I remember worldometer back in Jan CFR mortality rate climbed to 20% and then decreased to 3%.
At the time it was very obvious numbers from China were being massaged.

I also remember Bruce Aylward of WHO warning us that CFR would be higher in the west due to our lack of preparation and experience in comparison with countries that have been through SARS/swine flu/epidemics before.

But it struck me now there is more widespread testing, and more knowledge about the disease, even if heart attacks/strokes/excess deaths are not taken into account as SASCOV2 related, that we must have more reliable numbers now?

Just wondering if anyone has come across them and can help?

fr336 · 24-06-2020 01:09PM

Drumpot wrote: »

- in short be more proactive and not just be reactive and making decisions/plans when the crisis is here.

This is the problem with the west. We just can't be bothered until something actually happens. And these days anyone wanting to avoid a second wave, not hoping for it, is deemed a scaremongerer. Thankfully even the government and big business are slightly more smart than the armchair scientists and politicans.

ShyMets · 24-06-2020 01:25PM

Drumpot wrote: »

Actually thought of a few more things we could work on:

- encouraging households to have 2-3 weeks groceries where possible (staples like toilet role, long lasting goods (reduce panic)
- encourage more grocery delivery infrastructure and usage
- encourage one person in household to do shopping
- encourage everybody to have a basic thermometer and take temp as soon as they may feel unwell (sounds obvious but I’m not sure everybody does this).
- Vitamin D recommended, particularly at winter time (can’t believe this still isn’t publicly communicated , VIT D deficiency is a massive variable in severe patients. This is an easy recommendation that everyone can fix and potentially reduces severe cases or the severity of severe cases
- better forums/discussions , more informed discussion that’s about working out how we will live with it and manage it. Instead of lectures from politicians who are quite often weeks behind information curves
-more engagement with communities on how to manage this long term (an extension of my adapt plan where we try to figure out how to live with the virus and keep things relatively normal
- in short be more proactive and not just be reactive and making decisions/plans when the crisis is here.

A lot of this is about changing our habits now so we won’t be put out as much of a second wave arrives. We saw a glimpse of the panic when it arrived. To be honest I was fine because I had taken stock of warnings and had planned in advance but there’s no reason why everybody can’t be ready without having the wits scared out of them. That’s all I want our country to do, take prudent steps to reduce the impact of a potentially worse second wave. I just feel there is so much we can do now and I’m not sure any of it is being done.

My Father, eats oily fish nearly every day, which is a great source of vitamin D. He is in his early 80's and in excellent health.

Its something I've been doing the same for the last ten years as well. And even through I'm a smoker and mild asthmatic, I find I rarely get ill.

Maybe its nothing to do with vitamin D. But I like to think it affords me some protection from Illness

owlbethere · 24-06-2020 01:33PM

Drumpot wrote: »

Actually thought of a few more things we could work on:

- encouraging households to have 2-3 weeks groceries where possible (staples like toilet role, long lasting goods (reduce panic)
- encourage more grocery delivery infrastructure and usage
- encourage one person in household to do shopping
- encourage everybody to have a basic thermometer and take temp as soon as they may feel unwell (sounds obvious but I’m not sure everybody does this).
- Vitamin D recommended, particularly at winter time (can’t believe this still isn’t publicly communicated , VIT D deficiency is a massive variable in severe patients. This is an easy recommendation that everyone can fix and potentially reduces severe cases or the severity of severe cases
- better forums/discussions , more informed discussion that’s about working out how we will live with it and manage it. Instead of lectures from politicians who are quite often weeks behind information curves
-more engagement with communities on how to manage this long term (an extension of my adapt plan where we try to figure out how to live with the virus and keep things relatively normal
- in short be more proactive and not just be reactive and making decisions/plans when the crisis is here.

A lot of this is about changing our habits now so we won’t be put out as much of a second wave arrives. We saw a glimpse of the panic when it arrived. To be honest I was fine because I had taken stock of warnings and had planned in advance but there’s no reason why everybody can’t be ready without having the wits scared out of them. That’s all I want our country to do, take prudent steps to reduce the impact of a potentially worse second wave. I just feel there is so much we can do now and I’m not sure any of it is being done.

I really like your posts. A few more

-encourage healthy eating, the eating of an anti inflammatory diet instead of carb heavy diets that are seen so often.
-encourage people with obesity to lose weight.

(this is what I'm doing. I'm pushing myself big time. I was 39.9 bmi back in March and I'm losing weight and so far I got the bmi down to 36.5 and I'm going to keep going. If I can get the bmi down into the overweight category, by October, I think I will be doing good and if the virus comes my way, hopefully my body will be able to handle it).

bodhrandude · 24-06-2020 01:35PM

I felt it this year that there was no Body&Soul festival, normally I would be bound for Ballinlough Castle for the week and weekend working the festival build, the only consolation being that the weather wasn't great for the weekend. I wrote a piece about the Pandemic and a look back over the years I worked the Body&Soul festival. https://niallmcquaid.wordpress.com/2020/06/18/a-fallow-year-for-festivals-bodysoul-a-virtual-tour-through-the-years/

wadacrack · 24-06-2020 01:37PM

Drumpot wrote: »

Actually thought of a few more things we could work on:

- encouraging households to have 2-3 weeks groceries where possible (staples like toilet role, long lasting goods (reduce panic)
- encourage more grocery delivery infrastructure and usage
- encourage one person in household to do shopping
- encourage everybody to have a basic thermometer and take temp as soon as they may feel unwell (sounds obvious but I’m not sure everybody does this).
- Vitamin D recommended, particularly at winter time (can’t believe this still isn’t publicly communicated , VIT D deficiency is a massive variable in severe patients. This is an easy recommendation that everyone can fix and potentially reduces severe cases or the severity of severe cases
- better forums/discussions , more informed discussion that’s about working out how we will live with it and manage it. Instead of lectures from politicians who are quite often weeks behind information curves
-more engagement with communities on how to manage this long term (an extension of my adapt plan where we try to figure out how to live with the virus and keep things relatively normal
- in short be more proactive and not just be reactive and making decisions/plans when the crisis is here.

A lot of this is about changing our habits now so we won’t be put out as much of a second wave arrives. We saw a glimpse of the panic when it arrived. To be honest I was fine because I had taken stock of warnings and had planned in advance but there’s no reason why everybody can’t be ready without having the wits scared out of them. That’s all I want our country to do, take prudent steps to reduce the impact of a potentially worse second wave. I just feel there is so much we can do now and I’m not sure any of it is being done.

Yea all great points tbf. I have been taken Vitamin D for the last few months. Everyone in my immediate family had aflu/cold. Some pretty bad symptoms which at the time was pretty surprising for me. They are rarely very sick. I didnt suffer any symptoms . The data around Vitamin D is very strong too. Amazing its still not being widely recommended . Zinc and Magnesium would be worth consideration also .

owlbethere · 24-06-2020 01:38PM

It was so funny. I was out walking on the Saturday night of the week before and I met a few people. Separate couples out walking. It was so funny. Previously we would have met in the pub and there we were on a Saturday evening trying to get fit. LOL.

ACitizenErased · 24-06-2020 01:42PM

Martina1991 wrote: »

That isn't true. How can you conclude there are mass amounts of the population that have been infected?

I posted links to a new study yesterday. Antibody tests don’t pick up t-cell response, which is exactly what COVID enacts in many individuals. People who have had COVID get negative antibody results exactly for this reason. Check out the “have you been tested” thread in the forum.

ACitizenErased · 24-06-2020 01:43PM

bb1234567 wrote: »

Based on what evidence?

Antibody testting in some regions such as Lombardy has shown that mass amounts of the populations have been infected, 60% of people in Bergamo, for example. I think 30% of people in New York. Wasn't London 20-25%. They are huge numbers So why do you think those tests are underepresenting seroprevalence in other areas when they are indeed showing very high rates of infection in places with recognised large scale outbreaks?

If antibody testing was showing that hotspots had suspiciously low rates of infection, then maybe the point would be valid, but they aren't, places like Bergamo [probably much higher rate of infection than anybody would have guessed.

Antibody tests are not looking for the right thing.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.21.20132449v1

wadacrack · 24-06-2020 01:43PM

owlbethere wrote: »

It was so funny. I was out walking on the Saturday night of the week before and I met a few people. Separate couples out walking. It was so funny. Previously we would have met in the pub and there we were on a Saturday evening trying to get fit. LOL.

How is that funny?

24-06-2020 01:45PM

owlbethere wrote: »

I really like your posts. A few more

-encourage healthy eating, the eating of an anti inflammatory diet instead of carb heavy diets that are seen so often.
-encourage people with obesity to lose weight.

(this is what I'm doing. I'm pushing myself big time. I was 39.9 bmi back in March and I'm losing weight and so far I got the bmi down to 36.5 and I'm going to keep going. If I can get the bmi down into the overweight category, by October, I think I will be doing good and if the virus comes my way, hopefully my body will be able to handle it).

good stuff, but you really should have been focused on that well prior to covid, as the other risks to health are probably more acute. But its great to start. Went from a BMI of 34 to 26 last year myself.

ixoy · 24-06-2020 01:49PM

I know they're trying to encourage mask usage, but this article on RTE doesn't help stating:

Wearing a mask decreases your risk of spreading or catching the virus by 99%.

I'm surprised they're saying that given that it depends very much on the type of mask you're wearing and only the very top tier, which are uncomfortable to wear, would hit 99%. It should at least read "up to 99%" but even then it'd be a bit poor.

s1ippy · 24-06-2020 01:49PM

TomSweeney wrote: »

I think they are scared and they want people to reply telling them they are being ridiculous - so they can calm down a bit

It is most assuredly not that, and I suspect you know it's not, so please stop.

ShyMets wrote: »

It about balance. There is room on this thread for both positive and negative news.

That said I did find the tone yesterday to be overly pessimistic. Yes some parts of the world are in a mess, some of which is down to appalling leadership, but other parts are doing a pretty good job suppressing the virus.

One trend I have noticed is that as soon as a piece of positive news is posted certain posters will reply by trying to put a negativity spin on it. Its almost as if they don't want to hear any good news.

Which is these difficult times I find very odd

I find it odd that someone would come in here looking for positive news. It's a virus that kills people, we're dealing in least worst case scenarios. Maybe there should be two threads. I'm absolutely sick to the gills of reading about "doom-mongers" and people demanding positivity. The positive things in my life are outside of this virus so I look to them to be uplifted. I look to this thread for data.

Compliance with current restrictions in Ireland down by a fifth in comparison with April.

I find that article interesting because of people worrying about their workplaces.

In two of my three jobs that remain, I have serious issues with the PPE situation. One is insisting on a doctor's note if you wish to wear a mask, the other is only permitting visors even with a doctor's note.

They have given their rationale which, without giving away too many details about the nature of the work, has no basis in science. I have outlined this to them and will not be returning to this work until I have permission to use a mask. My colleagues who are not high risk have also raised this in solidarity with those of us who are vulnerable, which was totally unexpected and has been really heartening to see.

Those employers both have their own opinion about the whole thing, they want everything to just go back to normal. One in particular seems to be feeling like they don't have the level of control over their staff that they used to and has really upped their game, calling and emailing and making totally unreasonable demands of our time outside of working hours. I hope this whole situation, where people are more regularly asking for their views, health and time to be respected, makes a lot of bosses take a good hard look at themselves. They might even develop some empathy.

I'm obviously talking about industries where contracts are secure, so I have huge sympathy for workers who can be fired for raising concerns they have. I would highly recommend anyone who is not in a union to join one for their line of work. Nobody should be without one in these times.

Covid19 Part XVIII-25,473 in ROI(1,736 deaths) 5,760 in NI (551 deaths)(30/06)Read OP

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