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Madeleine McCann

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Comments

  • #6782
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,026 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    Something Else
    The simplest explanation is that Maddie wandered out alone and befell some terrible fate. The other 2 scenarios (abduction and parents did it) require a lot of fanciful explanation. It's strange that the McFanns wholesale buy into one of the 2 fanciful scenarios and denounce the other as 'fantasy'.

    Question for the people who have read Kate's book. Does she offer an explanation as to how she knew instantly that Maddie had been taken and not wandered off? I've heard the 'door too heavy' blurb but that sounds like something flimsy you'd make up on the fly.


  • #6783
    callmehal
    Site Banned Posts: 461 ✭✭callmehal


    Accident happened, parents hid body
    Rock77 wrote: »
    The UK police were not allowed to investigate the parents?

    So the police are now helping the McCann parents cover up the fact they murdered their child?

    Where are you getting murdered their child from? And yes, the UK police couldn't investigate them.


  • #6784
    callmehal
    Site Banned Posts: 461 ✭✭callmehal


    Accident happened, parents hid body
    flasher0030 wrote: »
    Been reading through this forum. I can't get over the human race's desire for conspiracy. That there has to be something something more to a scenario than the obvious in that she was abducted.
    As I was reading, I was thinking that it was easy to pick out those on this forum that have kids and those that don't - any one that has kids will know that the parents couldn't have killed their daughter (accidentally or on purpose) and disposed of the body and carried on in life. Can't happen. Unless it was some sort of dysfunctional family or parents were on the psychopathic side. Obviously they were a normal family with stable parents - otherwise there would be some evidence to the contrary - as everything about this case is out in the open.

    I have to say, I am surprised that you are a parent.

    Would you leave your kids alone in an unlocked apartment for 4 nights running while you went out partying?


  • #6785
    Rock77
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,123 ✭✭✭Rock77


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    cgcsb wrote: »
    The simplest explanation is that Maddie wandered out alone and befell some terrible fate. The other 2 scenarios (abduction and parents did it) require a lot of fanciful explanation. It's strange that the McFanns wholesale buy into one of the 2 fanciful scenarios and denounce the other as 'fantasy'.

    Question for the people who have read Kate's book. Does she offer an explanation as to how she knew instantly that Maddie had been taken and not wandered off? I've heard the 'door too heavy' blurb but that sounds like something flimsy you'd make up on the fly.

    I haven’t read the book but to be honest the mother said she knew the child couldn’t open the door because it was too heavy, seems fine to me. Also apparently the words she used upon discovery were ‘she’s gone’ It wasn’t until much later she said ‘they’ve taken her’


  • #6786
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,026 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    Something Else
    flasher0030 wrote: »
    Been reading through this forum. I can't get over the human race's desire for conspiracy. That there has to be something something more to a scenario than the obvious in that she was abducted.

    Come again? have you evidence that the police do not?
    flasher0030 wrote: »
    As I was reading, I was thinking that it was easy to pick out those on this forum that have kids and those that don't - any one that has kids will know that the parents couldn't have killed their daughter (accidentally or on purpose) and disposed of the body and carried on in life.

    Emotional drivel. Murdered/raped children are most likely the victims of a family member.
    flasher0030 wrote: »
    Can't happen. Unless it was some sort of dysfunctional family or parents were on the psychopathic side. Obviously they were a normal family with stable parents - otherwise there would be some evidence to the contrary - as everything about this case is out in the open.

    Well here we have what seems to be a culture clash. Upper class English culture stipulates that being cruel/cold to children, even your own, is perfectly normal. The British tabloids seemed to treat the cruelty of the McCanns as normal, but the rest of Europe was horrified at the thought of wanton child abandonment and a spot of tennis/jogging a few hours after your toddler goes on the missing list. So whether or not they behaved normally is quite subjective.


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  • #6787
    Rock77
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,123 ✭✭✭Rock77


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    callmehal wrote: »
    Where are you getting murdered their child from? And yes, the UK police couldn't investigate them.

    Careful now, one UK detective has said he was told unofficially that IF he took the job he wouldn’t be able to investigate the McCanns. It is my understanding (maybe I’m wrong) that the UK police officially at least could investigate the parents.

    And sorry about my wording, I should have said are the UK police helping the McCanns cover up the fact they accidentally killed their child and hid the body


  • #6788
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,026 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    Something Else
    Rock77 wrote: »
    I haven’t read the book but to be honest the mother said she knew the child couldn’t open the door because it was too heavy, seems fine to me. Also apparently the words she used upon discovery were ‘she’s gone’ It wasn’t until much later she said ‘they’ve taken her’

    My brother aged 2 one day moved a kitchen chair up to the front door and climbed up on it so he could reach the latch on it and opened it. I don't accept the 'it was too heavy' argument, did maddie demonstrate inability to do so before? you'd be amazed what kids and even adults can do when they are scared.


  • #6789
    Rock77
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,123 ✭✭✭Rock77


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    cgcsb wrote: »
    My brother aged 2 one day moved a kitchen chair up to the front door and climbed up on it so he could reach the latch on it and opened it. I don't accept the 'it was too heavy' argument, did maddie demonstrate inability to do so before? you'd be amazed what kids and even adults can do when they are scared.

    Listen I’m only going off what the mother said. It was a patio door that was very heavy and the kids could not open it. Seems plausible to me. I hear you about kids moving chairs and climbing on things but this was a patio door.

    Could she have gotten out a window? I don’t know but it does seem plausible that the mother felt it was impossible for the kids to get out on their own


  • #6790
    limnam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,345 ✭✭✭limnam


    flasher0030 wrote: »

    I have to say, I am surprised that you are a parent.


    Why?


    because I don't leave them at home alone and go drinking with the lads?


  • #6791
    limnam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,345 ✭✭✭limnam


    Rock77 wrote: »
    Listen I’m only going off what the mother said. It was a patio door that was very heavy and the kids could not open it. Seems plausible to me. I hear you about kids moving chairs and climbing on things but this was a patio door.

    Could she have gotten out a window? I don’t know but it does seem plausible that the mother felt it was impossible for the kids to get out on their own


    She also said the window was open and curtains blowing


    When there was no wind....


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  • #6792
    dark crystal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    limnam wrote: »
    She also said the window was open and curtains blowing


    When there was no wind....

    Huh? How do you know that?


  • #6793
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,026 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    Something Else
    Rock77 wrote: »
    Listen I’m only going off what the mother said. It was a patio door that was very heavy and the kids could not open it. Seems plausible to me. I hear you about kids moving chairs and climbing on things but this was a patio door.

    Could she have gotten out a window? I don’t know but it does seem plausible that the mother felt it was impossible for the kids to get out on their own

    Kate said a lot of things. I do think that, no matter which of the three scenarios turn out to be true, the McCanns haven't told the whole truth. Which is a shame for their missing daughter.


  • #6794
    callmehal
    Site Banned Posts: 461 ✭✭callmehal


    Accident happened, parents hid body
    Rock77 wrote: »
    Careful now, one UK detective has said he was told unofficially that IF he took the job he wouldn’t be able to investigate the McCanns. It is my understanding (maybe I’m wrong) that the UK police officially at least could investigate the parents.

    And sorry about my wording, I should have said are the UK police helping the McCanns cover up the fact they accidentally killed their child and hid the body

    Have a look into it in more detail. They weren't investigated fully and the lies of the whole group should have been questioned more.


  • #6795
    Toots
    Administrators, Business & Finance Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,978 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Toots


    cgcsb wrote: »
    My brother aged 2 one day moved a kitchen chair up to the front door and climbed up on it so he could reach the latch on it and opened it. I don't accept the 'it was too heavy' argument, did maddie demonstrate inability to do so before? you'd be amazed what kids and even adults can do when they are scared.

    Yeah, I've seen my kids do stuff that I definitely didn't think they'd be able to. My youngest keeps trying to open the door to a cupboard where I keep the treats so I put a child lock on it. Worked for about 3 weeks and she copped how to open it. Then I stuck one of my husband's kettle bells in front of it - 8kg, thought that would keep her out for sure until I turned around and she was lifting it out of the way. She's 2.

    Even if the McCanns say the door was too heavy for Madeleine to have opened on her own, I don't think it could be ruled out.


  • #6796
    Rock77
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,123 ✭✭✭Rock77


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    callmehal wrote: »
    Have a look into it in more detail. They weren't investigated fully and the lies of the whole group should have been questioned more.

    Which lies are you talking about? There are some details that don’t match but it’s minor details that they are remembering differently. I’m not so sure they are lies.

    And yes I know minor details are extremely important but at the time these people didn’t know that.


  • #6797
    callmehal
    Site Banned Posts: 461 ✭✭callmehal


    Accident happened, parents hid body
    Rock77 wrote: »
    Which lies are you talking about? There are some details that don’t match but it’s minor details that they are remembering differently. I’m not so sure they are lies.

    And yes I know minor details are extremely important but at the time these people didn’t know that.

    That's why they should have been investigated fully. Their stories don't match. Now, the most reasonable explanation is that they were trying to cover up their neglect of their children, they all left them alone but still, that they weren't fully investigated and didn't do a reenactment is worrying.


  • #6798
    Rock77
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,123 ✭✭✭Rock77


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    Toots wrote: »
    Yeah, I've seen my kids do stuff that I definitely didn't think they'd be able to. My youngest keeps trying to open the door to a cupboard where I keep the treats so I put a child lock on it. Worked for about 3 weeks and she copped how to open it. Then I stuck one of my husband's kettle bells in front of it - 8kg, thought that would keep her out for sure until I turned around and she was lifting it out of the way. She's 2.

    Even if the McCanns say the door was too heavy for Madeleine to have opened on her own, I don't think it could be ruled out.

    I don’t think anything can be ruled out but the point being made was how did Kate know instantly the child was taken (first of all she didn’t) but she did say she knew Madeline couldn’t open the door.

    So Kate thought Madeline couldn’t get out on her own, that’s why she thought she was taken.

    That certainly doesn’t mean the child definitely didn’t get out herself


  • #6799
    Rock77
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,123 ✭✭✭Rock77


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    callmehal wrote: »
    That's why they should have been investigated fully. Their stories don't match. Now, the most reasonable explanation is that they were trying to cover up their neglect of their children, they all left them alone but still, that they weren't fully investigated and didn't do a reenactment is worrying.

    Did the local police not do a full investigation ?


  • #6800
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,026 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    Something Else
    The other thing is, why would a mother with a scientific/medical background encourage half of Portugal to thumb their way through the apartment that she believed to be a crime scene where her daughter was last seen alive. There are many oddities in the McCann account.


  • #6801
    limnam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,345 ✭✭✭limnam


    Rock77 wrote: »
    Which lies are you talking about? There are some details that don’t match but it’s minor details that they are remembering differently. I’m not so sure they are lies.

    And yes I know minor details are extremely important but at the time these people didn’t know that.




    Saying windows were open and curtains blowing


    When


    The curtains were pinned behind her bed and windows closed.


    You can check out local weather stations for wind speed and take into consideration were the window was.


    Very difficult for "swooshing" of curtains.


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  • #6802
    callmehal
    Site Banned Posts: 461 ✭✭callmehal


    Accident happened, parents hid body
    Rock77 wrote: »
    Did the local police not do a full investigation ?

    And they suspected the McCanns, the group didn't agree to a reenactment.


  • #6803
    limnam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,345 ✭✭✭limnam


    callmehal wrote: »
    And they suspected the McCanns, the group didn't agree to a reenactment.




    When they eventually did it, they spent most of it arguing among themselves.


  • #6804
    Rock77
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,123 ✭✭✭Rock77


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    callmehal wrote: »
    And they suspected the McCanns, the group didn't agree to a reenactment.

    So they were fully investigated ??


  • #6805
    callmehal
    Site Banned Posts: 461 ✭✭callmehal


    Accident happened, parents hid body
    Rock77 wrote: »
    So they were fully investigated ??

    No. Have you followed the case?


  • #6806
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    callmehal wrote: »
    Have a look into it in more detail. They weren't investigated fully and the lies of the whole group should have been questioned more.

    What lies exactly


  • #6807
    Rock77
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,123 ✭✭✭Rock77


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    callmehal wrote: »
    No. Have you followed the case?


    You said they were not fully investigated.

    I asked did the local police not fully investigate

    You said they did and they suspected the McCanns.??

    No I haven’t followed the case.


  • #6808
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    cgcsb wrote: »
    Come again? have you evidence that the police do not?



    Emotional drivel. Murdered/raped children are most likely the victims of a family member.



    Well here we have what seems to be a culture clash. Upper class English culture stipulates that being cruel/cold to children, even your own, is perfectly normal. The British tabloids seemed to treat the cruelty of the McCanns as normal, but the rest of Europe was horrified at the thought of wanton child abandonment and a spot of tennis/jogging a few hours after your toddler goes on the missing list. So whether or not they behaved normally is quite subjective.


    Where can we view this stipulation on upper middle class English culture?

    I think you just revealed where your bias on this whole thread is coming from.


  • #6809
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    limnam wrote: »
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4467832/Met-interested-proving-McCann-parents-innocent.html

    The daily mail with a link to an “anonymous” senior friend” in the Met. Case closed we can all go home. This is more likely a personal grudge from an ex cop who probably got passed over for promotion.

    Where exactly did the Met say they wouldn’t investigate the parents? They actually stated on crime line that they would investigate everything and assume nothing.

    The amounts of falsehoods and hearsay on this thread that can debunked with a simple google search Is astonishing.


  • #6810
    cnocbui
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,069 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    cgcsb wrote: »
    The other thing is, why would a mother with a scientific/medical background encourage half of Portugal to thumb their way through the apartment that she believed to be a crime scene where her daughter was last seen alive. There are many oddities in the McCann account.

    Maybe she was a bit upset and had other more important things on her mind. I doubt she was certain about anything, otherwise she and Gerry probably wouldn't have been out combing the streets until dawn, looking in drains, bins etc. I'm pretty sure she was considering all possibilities. It's pretty obvious the apartment needed to be searched thoroughly as the first course of action before doing anything else.


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  • #6811
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    limnam wrote: »
    IF my daughter was kidnapped. God forbid. Regardless of the circumstances.

    My no 1 focus would always be her.

    No screaming "you don't know how you would react" will tell me otherwise.

    Not my innocence. Not what the papers said. Not what people thought of me

    But getting my daughter back.

    If that meant answering police questions as a suspect it would be done.

    whatever it took to try and get her back

    They already answered the police questions and the reasons they didn’t answer the questions under suspicion was because

    The cops were trying to stitch them up
    The cops were not actively searching for Madeline
    The cops were leaking information to the tabloids - ad nausea

    Not to mention the lead investigator was also a formal suspect in a different case involving a missing child where they came up with the same theory that the parents were involved and disposed of the body after keeping it in a fridge. That cop has since been convicted of perjury - same one who wrote the book. Why don’t all the conspiracy theorists dig into that theory???


This discussion has been closed.
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