Domestic Solar PV Quotes 2020

py wrote: »

Found it thanks. You might explain the rows (some are self explanatory) to me in simple terms if you get a minute

System Size
Degradation factor
annual deg factor
Cost incl grant (minus fig)
% Used
Start enegy cost (in cents)
energy cost increase (% in decimal)
FIT (in cents)
FIT increase per annum (% in decimal)
Discount Rate
Energy use increase (%indecimal)

Sure. Which ones

Gazzler82 wrote: »

Sure. Which ones

Thanks in advance.

System Size - size of install in KwH
Degradation factor - degradation of solar panels?
annual deg factor - annual rate of above
Cost incl grant (minus fig) -
% Used - annual percentage use of solar generated?
Start energy cost (in cents)
energy cost increase (% in decimal)
FIT (in cents)
FIT increase per annum (% in decimal) - do we think this will be a thing?
Discount Rate - unsure what this is
Energy use increase (%indecimal) - unsure what this is


Also unsure what "discounted value" is in column C.
Any details around the assumption on replacing inverter every 7 years?

py wrote: »

Thanks in advance.

System Size - size of install in KwH
Degradation factor - degradation of solar panels?
annual deg factor - annual rate of above
Cost incl grant (minus fig) -
% Used - annual percentage use of solar generated?
Start energy cost (in cents)
energy cost increase (% in decimal)
FIT (in cents)
FIT increase per annum (% in decimal) - do we think this will be a thing?
Discount Rate - unsure what this is
Energy use increase (%indecimal) - unsure what this is


Also unsure what "discounted value" is in column C.
Any details around the assumption on replacing inverter every 7 years?

Degradation factor. In 25 years time you won’t be getting the same power from the panels today. Every panel sheet I’ve seen always say what this will be. So whatever number is on your panels stick in here

%used. You aren’t going to use all the power you generate. The more experienced members of the forum suggest >50% used

FIT. Apparently eu reg from 2021. Greens in government would also suggest it will come in!!
You can always put this at 0

Discount rate. Don’t worry about this. Leave as is.

Energy use increase. Was trying to capture somehow the increase of electricity consumption in my house. I have small kids so expect as time goes forward our use will increase. So In theory we should use more of our own power.

Discounted value. That’s just the future values in today’s money.

Replacing inverter. The panels have a 25 yr life. The inverters have 10. So you will have to replace them at least twice over the panel term. This is cash you will have to pay out.

championc wrote: »

Surely there must be a broadly average percentage of your original electricity bills that can be used as a rough guidance for payback ?

Not really. Everyone is different....

Do people work from home during the day to soak up the free power
Do you have an EV
What orientation are the panels
Do you have any smart devices and diverters
What other high energy devices do you have like a heat pump
Are you adding a battery, if so, how big.


Broad averages are meaningless really as everyone will answer the above questions differently.

For payback figures you need to monitor your usage and then you can take a swag at what your self consumption will be like.

unkel wrote: »

All true, KCross, but a lot of people would have no idea how to even start measuring any of that let alone put it into figures. And for those people, who just seem to take the generous promises from the installer as granted, a back down to earth very rough rule of thumb for a large install of a third, maybe half at best if you have a battery, isn't a bad starting point.

You'd need to put some assumptions in there though when you make that statement.

No EV, no heatpump for house heating. Average Ireland household that uses <4000kWh/year.


An EV and a heatpump could/would treble your electricity usage compared to the national average so your "half at best" starting point is going to be way off in that case.


As you have alluded to, the sales literature is usually very misleading. They assume 100% self-consumption (via a diverter) and they compare it all to non-discounted day rate electricity. A complete scam.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbUleZq1Nko good video on using the myenergie hub... Found it helpful for non techie such as myself !

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

It's only controvertial because nobody measures the effin' lumps.

Power out / power in = efficiency.

Fit two meters

I work on batteries and alternative power all day most days and I've never seen a storage system come close to competing with utility prices.
I'll tell you another thing I can get li-ion results from lead except lightweightedness and footprint for half the investment.


Get solar, if you have any change in yer pocket get more solar. Now you've 200% green power, instead of 75% extracted from a battery after system losses.

You'll see my battery setup is about 80% efficient based on my data posted in the Solar PV Performance Thread https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058050685

unkel wrote: »

There's only one reason people went for the SEAI install with a battery - you got €2,400 extra subsidy (last year). A battery costs €900 + VAT and a hybrid inverter costs €700 + VAT more than a normal inverter (and it takes no more than an extra hour to fit the battery, say €100 + VAT, in total so €1900 incl VAT)

In other words, if you were not being completely ripped off by the installer and they added just €500 extra profit (!) for fitting the battery (big if in this country), then you got the battery pretty much for free (courtesy of the tax payer)

Or another reason is that people believe the sales literature BS and your fairytales about free batteries!

The reality is it doesn’t add up financially or environmentally on the current(or previous) grant system. It’s a fact based on real world quotes/prices. Your hypothetical figures are irrelevant no matter how many times you post it.

You could rip it out the next day and sell it on eBay and easily get €800 for it, so at that stage you would actually have a cheaper install than someone opting for the non-battery option.

In other words, Sir Liamalot, the efficiency of the battery doesn't matter a damn. If it never saves you even a single cent, it still makes sense to get it installed.

weird statement. So it makes sense if you rip it out and sell it on eBay at the taxpayers expense. That says it all.

For a guy who regularly complains about his taxpayers money being wasted you seem a bit blinkered around battery systems.

In all fairness, posts by Unkel about the cost of kit, are costs taken from the retail prices on websites like midsummer.ie and solartricity.ie

Typically, a trade customer would be paying less in total than the ex Vat retail price, so installers are getting about a 25% discount at least on the retail prices.

I do feel that 2.4kw batteries are a complete con. They will basically save at most 30c each day (they are fully charged by solar) if discharged replacing full rate electricity. So that's saving about €100 AT BEST per year.

Note to all collecting quotes
It's therefore not hard to price up a system for yourself, with the majority of installers buying from the two mentioned companies. Maybe allow an additional €500 for cabling, mountings connectors and disconnects.

KCross wrote: »

The reality is it doesn’t add up financially

What part of the big IF did you not get?

It does work financially, if the installer is not ripping you off.

I agree with you though about capital subsidies, they never end up where they were intended to. Dunno why the government keeps handing these out. Back with the first time buyers grant of IRP3000 that was supposed to help people buy their first home, it went straight into the developers pockets. To the EUR10k subsidy on an EV, went straight to the car manufacturer. The solar grant of €3.8k or what ever it is this year, goes mostly to the installer. And, this one especially for you, the EUR10 million we gave to the ESB for super fast charging hobs, seems to have gone into their already bulging salary and pension pot

A nudge in the form of a feed in tariff would work much better than a subsidy like we have it now

And for the record, I have not claimed a cent in any PV subsidy. All my installs are DIY with very little professional help. I do have a battery system, but I bought a second hand inverter for that and the batteries were also second hand and destined to be recycled, I re-use them instead before they eventually will be recycled

And if I could install more PV, I would. Literally every square meter of any of my roofs (shed, kitchen, house) apart from the bit facing north, is covered with panels. East, south and west facing. If panels got a bit cheaper again, I'd even consider covering my north facing roof with them...

KCross wrote: »

Whatever they are paying, the only price that actually matters is the price on the invoice that you, as an end user, is paying.

If you want to price up a system yourself from one of the wholesalers then its a DIY job with no grant and not what most people on this thread are looking at.

The most frequently asked question on this thread is "am I being ripped off" or "is this good value" ?

So the point I was making was that people can get a decent idea of a DIY cost and allow installer costs on top. So those looking at embracing Solar PV can very quickly see as to whether the quote is good value or outrageous.

The most important point of this is that people can understand the basis behind comments.

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Pm me a link please Unkel. My recently comissioned £50 G83/2 used SB1700 inverter I put on a 13a plug needs more input, I haven't pegged her yet.

Old inverters come up at ridiculously good prices from the UK regularly, I got a few myself over the years

And who needs all that fancy wifi / app reporting and data logging anyway? Not me. Nice to have as a gimmick, but I wouldn't pay any decent money for it

That link wasn't mine, it was from gomamochi1. Maybe they will come back and throw up a link here. You UK based or in Ireland these days?