Cycling on paths and other cycling issues (updated title)

Pinch Flat · 18-06-2020 11:23AM

TaurenDruid wrote: »

I wonder why the two existing inbound cycle lanes in Fairview aren't enough and instead a new one is needed that would have involved cutting down dozens of 100+ year old trees... Thankfully even the northside cyclists said no to that one!

Wait, was the thread about not cycling on footpaths? or have I missed something? Appreciate we went off topic a bit.

https://goo.gl/maps/AcM1KxCgVQM9pgdv6

TaurenDruid · 18-06-2020 11:25AM

Hurrache wrote: »

During construction of the Luas cross city, such was the extent of drivers breaking the bus lane restrictions that the NTA had to pay the overtime of an already overstretched Gardai to enforce it in order to allow construction work stick to schedule and the buses to run properly.
In one month a traffic count registered 500 vehicles, daily, breaking the bus lane restrictions.

Similar action had to be then taken to stop taxis abusing the restrictions on them, i.e. being ignored.

https://twitter.com/DublinCommuters/status/1273365095360405506?s=19

500 drivers a day using a particular bus lane? I'd well believe it.

1000 cyclists a day breaking a red light at the same bus lane? I guarantee it!

Stark · 18-06-2020 11:27AM

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Wait, was the thread about not cycling on footpaths? or have I missed something? Appreciate we went off topic a bit.

https://goo.gl/maps/AcM1KxCgVQM9pgdv6

You can actually see from the street view that outside of wet leaves mulch season, cyclist do use the cycle track. Only violation was that car half way down the track taking up the entire pedestrian side of the track in order to park in it :rolleyes:

https://goo.gl/maps/BH3WPEwKCsVEPyLh9

TaurenDruid · 18-06-2020 11:28AM

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Wait, was the thread about not cycling on footpaths? or have I missed something? Appreciate we went off topic a bit.

https://goo.gl/maps/AcM1KxCgVQM9pgdv6

Lovely picture. Don't forget the other cycle lane which starts just to the left, cuts through the park, and comes out just before Newcomen Bridge. Practically deserted, most mornings.

TaurenDruid · 18-06-2020 11:31AM

Stark wrote: »

Only violation was that car half way down the track taking up the entire pedestrian side of the track in order to park in it :rolleyes:

Wait, wait, I have the answer to that one, thanks to Thelonius and endorsed by Andrew... gimme a sec...

Ah, here we go:

"And at the end of the day the motorist above caused no harm, he was only going to hurt himself."

Stark · 18-06-2020 11:39AM

I'm generally not too bothered about stuff like that as long as half-blind ****ers don't start freaking out about people using the road to get around the cars parked on the footpath. "Wah wah, perfectly usable footpad right there, wahhhh".

Pinch Flat · 18-06-2020 11:39AM

TaurenDruid wrote: »

Lovely picture. Don't forget the other cycle lane which starts just to the left, cuts through the park, and comes out just before Newcomen Bridge. Practically deserted, most mornings.

Those clever people at DCC have covered it off in the Part 8 application

"Dublin City Council and the National Transportation Authority propose to improve cycling routes from Talbot Street / Connolly Station to Clontarf at the Alfie Byrne Road. In order to bring existing cycleways and bus lanes to the required standard and accommodate the traffic lanes within the road corridor, realignment of existing kerb lines and lanes will be required to ensure safe and where feasible segregated movement of pedestrians, bicycles, buses and other vehicles."

I'm guessing people don't use it because it's not convenient. I doubt there's a more esoteric reason. Thankfully this is being addressed in the planned redevelopment. You just can't win - people getting outraged about those pesky cyclists on the footpaths, the development is put in train and people moan why the less convenient option in the first place is not sufficient. :rolleyes:

Hurrache · 18-06-2020 11:50AM

TaurenDruid wrote: »

No, it isn't, it's perfectly understandable.

It's perfectly understandable to comment about bikes and cycling in a story about a fatal crash involving a car and a truck?

TaurenDruid wrote: »

500 drivers a day using a particular bus lane? I'd well believe it.

1000 cyclists a day breaking a red light at the same bus lane? I guarantee it!

I've repeatedly told you the numbers make a fool out of you, and you're doubling up on making yourself more so every time you post trying to dispute reality.

Effects · 18-06-2020 12:10PM

TaurenDruid wrote: »

1000 cyclists a day breaking a red light at the same bus lane? I guarantee it!

Similar amount of drivers breaking that red light in their cars as well, while breaking the speed limit. I guarantee it!

AndrewJRenko · 18-06-2020 12:22PM

Effects wrote: »

Similar amount of drivers breaking that red light in their cars as well, while breaking the speed limit. I guarantee it!

The RSA Speed Survey would suggest that it would be a much, much larger number of motorists breaking the speed limit.

Hurrache · 18-06-2020 12:28PM

It's a survey from a couple of years ago, it contains the magic numbers that several here seem to be immune to, but I'll break it down quite simple for those. If you've any issues, take it up with the gardai who compiled the figures.

1,296 cars in Dublin recorded breaking a red

24 times the rate of cyclists, 54 during that period. (There were only 5 times the amount of motorists surveyed, so don't try argue the number is higher for cars because there's more)

So only 12% of cyclist were observed breaking red lights

Of the fatal collisions in the area, 42% involved pedestrians, none with cyclists

11% of fatal collisions involved cyclists
And a later survey of the attitudes of drivers towards cyclists seems to have been based on the off the wall posters here

71% believe cyclists do not obey the rules of the road and regularly commit offenses on our roads.

81% said that cyclists regularly break traffic lights

TaurenDruid · 18-06-2020 01:31PM

Hurrache wrote: »

It's a survey from a couple of years ago, it contains the magic numbers that several here seem to be immune to, but I'll break it down quite simple for those. If you've any issues, take it up with the gardai who compiled the figures.
1,296 cars in Dublin recorded breaking a red
24 times the rate of cyclists, 54 during that period. (There were only 5 times the amount of motorists surveyed, so don't try argue the number is higher for cars because there's more)
So only 12% of cyclist were observed breaking red lights
Of the fatal collisions in the area, 42% involved pedestrians, none with cyclists
11% of fatal collisions involved cyclists

And a later survey of the attitudes of drivers towards cyclists seems to have been based on the off the wall posters here
71% believe cyclists do not obey the rules of the road and regularly commit offenses on our roads.
81% said that cyclists regularly break traffic lights

Link to survey, please? I mean, I'm not doubting the figures, but then context is important. Andew's famous figures for Dublin are from a selectively presented Kerry cycling blog that clearly omits a lot of relevant data.

Hurrache · 18-06-2020 01:36PM

How can context in any way change the numbers surveyed versus the number of offenders observed by the Gardai?

Spook_ie · 18-06-2020 01:41PM

I'll just park this one here

Engineers from Trinity College Dublin have found that 60% of Dublin’s City Centre cyclists are guilty of running red lights.

Just over a month ago a new set of penalties were introduced for cyclists, with the error of running a red light married to a €40 fine. In addition to the financial blow, the high proportion of cyclists not waiting for green to go indicates a serious safety issue for cyclists and other road users.

The research also pinpointed specific junctions at which cyclists ignored the highway code, with one in particular seeing almost 98% of cyclists break a red light.

Hurrache · 18-06-2020 01:43PM

Leave it there without the overall numbers surveyed, and cyclists vs other forms of transport?

Highway code? Is the 'highway code' law?

Where ever that particular junction is, I'm sure the NTA didn't have to pay the gardai to enforce the issue as it was such a detriment to the rest of the city, like they had to do for taxis around College Green.

Thelonious Monk · 18-06-2020 01:44PM

Why does anyone care if people break reds on a bike anyway? Once again, they're harmless, they don't need strict regulations the way cars do.

TaurenDruid · 18-06-2020 01:45PM

Hurrache wrote: »

How can context in any way change the numbers surveyed versus the number of offenders observed by the Gardai?

Oh, I dunno. Being able to compare the percentage of cyclists breaking a particular red light to the percentage of motorists breaking a particular red light.

Seeing how soon after a light has turned red was it broken by a car; a bus; a cyclist. Things like that.

TaurenDruid · 18-06-2020 01:48PM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Why does anyone care if people break reds on a bike anyway? Once again, they're harmless, they don't need strict regulations the way cars do.

Because sometimes they end up dead, and we have to scroll through the journal to write "RIP"?

Sometimes I guess it's just damage to their bike, or someone's car?

Huge inconvenience to pedestrians and other road users, including cyclists?

Or because it's illegal?

JFC.

Hurrache · 18-06-2020 01:48PM

TaurenDruid wrote: »

Oh, I dunno. Being able to compare the percentage of cyclists breaking a particular red light to the percentage of motorists breaking a particular red light.

It's right there in my post, what part of it can you not understand?

TaurenDruid · 18-06-2020 01:49PM

Hurrache wrote: »

Leave it there without the overall numbers surveyed, and cyclists vs other forms of transport?

Isn't that exactly what you did with the figures you posted yourself, earlier this morning?

Hurrache · 18-06-2020 01:52PM

TaurenDruid wrote: »

Isn't that exactly what you did with the figures you posted yourself, earlier this morning?

Again, what part of the exact numbers and figures that I posted you cannot understand?

I thought I put it in really simple form but obviously not enough for some people.

Is it because you believe there's varying degrees to red lights and it's ok if you only break it after it just goes red, things like that?

TaurenDruid · 18-06-2020 01:54PM

Hurrache wrote: »

It's right there in my post, what part of it can you not understand?

No, it absolutely is not in your post. Your figures make absolute assumptions!

1,296 cars in Dublin recorded breaking a red
24 times the rate of cyclists, 54 during that period. (There were only 5 times the amount of motorists surveyed, so don't try argue the number is higher for cars because there's more)
So only 12% of cyclist were observed breaking red lights
Of the fatal collisions in the area, 42% involved pedestrians, none with cyclists
11% of fatal collisions involved cyclists

And a later survey of the attitudes of drivers towards cyclists seems to have been based on the off the wall posters here
71% believe cyclists do not obey the rules of the road and regularly commit offenses on our roads.
81% said that cyclists regularly break traffic lights

1,296 cars recorded breaking a red out of how many cars?
54 cyclists observed breaking a red out of how many cyclists?

Without those figures, the rest of your calculations are just meaningless. Still waiting on a source...

Spook_ie · 18-06-2020 01:55PM

I'll just park this here as well seeing as Hurrache wants to find the information

http://www.tara.tcd.ie/bitstream/handle/2262/74776/AAP-D-15-00423R1-3.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

Do let the people at TCD know if you disagree with their findings.

ewc78 · 18-06-2020 02:10PM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Why does anyone care if people break reds on a bike anyway? Once again, they're harmless, they don't need strict regulations the way cars do.

Spook_ie · 18-06-2020 02:19PM

Moving on to another parking spot
http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/cameras-benburb-blackhall-luas-red-lights/

18 months, 1300 offences by vehicles and cyclists, 32% (416) were cyclists, Guess what though, no FCPNs issued to the cyclists as they couldn't be identified from the red light cameras.

Hurrache · 18-06-2020 02:22PM

TaurenDruid wrote: »

No, it absolutely is not in your post. Your figures make absolute assumptions!

Either a failure of actual numbers and percentages supplied to you on a plate, or intentional trolling ignorance. The numbers of those breaking red lights were given.

Like I said at the time, take it up with the Gardai. Everyone else can understand it.

Spook_ie wrote: »

Do let the people at TCD know if you disagree with their findings.

Making crap up again, as always. I never said anything about disagreeing with them. There was no numbers supplied as to how many that % was.

Spook_ie wrote: »

Moving on to another parking spot
http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/cameras-benburb-blackhall-luas-red-lights/

18 months, 1300 offences by vehicles and cyclists, 32% (416) were cyclists, Guess what though, no FCPNs issued to the cyclists as they couldn't be identified from the red light cameras.

So what you're saying is that the number of motorists breaking the red light is over double that of cyclists?

Sure haven't we been saying this for days that the dumb argument that cyclists are the biggest offenders is exactly that, dumb.

07Lapierre · 18-06-2020 02:39PM

Spook_ie wrote: »

Moving on to another parking spot
http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/cameras-benburb-blackhall-luas-red-lights/

18 months, 1300 offences by vehicles and cyclists, 32% (416) were cyclists, Guess what though, no FCPNs issued to the cyclists as they couldn't be identified from the red light cameras.

1. Nobody has said cyclists never breat the ROTR.
2: these reports really do highlight how rampant ROTR breaking is among all road users.
3: be careful what you wish for. Do you really want every citizen to be required to display their ID details when out in public?

SeanW · 18-06-2020 02:43PM

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Another good reason for hi-vis for all cars - to make it easier to find them and rescue them from the sea.

https://twitter.com/aaroadwash/status/1273340368369696770?s=19

Anyway, it's interesting to hear the results of the testing of autonomous cars in Galway isn't going well. There's no mention of a driver in the article, so it must be an autonomous vehicle, right?

Is this one of Sean's 'unavoidable accidents'?

Oh dear! One old couple lets their car go down some rocks! How horrible!
[sarcasm]STOP PRESSES! Yes, this is so reflective of Irish drivers as a whole and proves your point that all Irish drivers are horrible, all Irish cars need hi-vis and, and totally counters all the international evidence that road deaths in Ireland are relatively rare[/sarcasm] :rolleyes:

Hurrache wrote: »

And a later survey of the attitudes of drivers towards cyclists seems to have been based on the off the wall posters here
71% believe cyclists do not obey the rules of the road and regularly commit offenses on our roads.
81% said that cyclists regularly break traffic lights

I'm guessing the other 29% and 19% respectively don't spend much time on foot in our major cities. Or are cyclists themselves. :rolleyes:

Spook_ie · 18-06-2020 03:05PM

Hurrache wrote: »

Either a failure of actual numbers and percentages supplied to you on a plate, or intentional trolling ignorance. The numbers of those breaking red lights were given.

Like I said at the time, take it up with the Gardai. Everyone else can understand it.

Making crap up again, as always. I never said anything about disagreeing with them. There was no numbers supplied as to how many that % was.

So what you're saying is that the number of motorists breaking the red light is over double that of cyclists?

Sure haven't we been saying this for days that the dumb argument that cyclists are the biggest offenders is exactly that, dumb.

And I provided you with a link to their study with the invitation that if you disagreed that you contact them, hardly call that making up crap, rather just providing you with the research they did, now of course it could have been their research you were calling crap but I think not.

Eh not in my arguments, no one has, 98% cyclists jumping redlights is not an insignificant figure, as to Blackhall Place, what sensors were they using, much easier to detect a vehicle whatever sensors you use than a piddly little cyclist ( with or without HiViz :rolleyes:

Spook_ie · 18-06-2020 03:14PM

07Lapierre wrote: »

1. Nobody has said cyclists never breat the ROTR.
2: these reports really do highlight how rampant ROTR breaking is among all road users.
3: be careful what you wish for. Do you really want every citizen to be required to display their ID details when out in public?

I have no disagreement with 1 and 2 though some on here seem to think it doesn't matter , almost as if RotR are like pick and mix sweets, if you don't like the RotR then don't bother with them.

I think 3 is a great idea. ( as a requirement to carry and produce when requested )

Cycling on paths and other cycling issues (updated title)

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