Is it just me or have SF vanished?

Mortelaro · 17-06-2020 05:50PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It means that this has been trotted out ad nauseum by a group of posters on here. So much so that it sounds scripted.

Maths isn't a script, its numbers
The question remains, why SF could not persuade 80+ T.D's into its realm

FrancieBrady · 17-06-2020 05:51PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Really? To me it’s just stating the obvious. One party, if they really wanted, could have formed a government with the rest of the elected TDs without either FF or FG.

They could have had everyone else agreed. They didn't. Therefore the numbers were not there.

That may have been PBP the SD's The Greens or indeed SF not playing ball, but the upshot is the numbers were not there.

FrancieBrady · 17-06-2020 05:53PM

Mortelaro wrote: »

Maths isn't a script, its numbers
The question remains, why SF could not persuade 80+ T.D's into its realm

You can ask the same ridiculous question of an independent...why couldn't Michael Lowry persuade the other 80+ into his realm.

He didn't and he couldn't. The numbers were not there.

Is anything simpler to understand?

blanch152 · 17-06-2020 06:03PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

As I thought. Not a notion, just the familiar scripted retort.

You can't argue with the numbers, Francie, they are there in black and white.

87 TDs available to Mary-Lou. She barely convinced her own to back her.

Mortelaro · 17-06-2020 06:12PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You can ask the same ridiculous question of an independent...why couldn't Michael Lowry persuade the other 80+ into his realm.

He didn't and he couldn't. The numbers were not there.

Is anything simpler to understand?

No,that's just actual what the fuck level ridiculous

I can only assume that Sinn Féin decided to gamble with their constituents
That 5 more years of disastrous FF and FG government devastating and destituting their lives with austerity and higher taxes is a price worth paying to gain more seats ...
Their poor voters

it'll be a gamble as erudite as their candidate selection for February 2020

FrancieBrady · 17-06-2020 06:19PM

Mortelaro wrote: »

No,that's just actual what the fuck level ridiculous

I can only assume that Sinn Féin decided to gamble with their constituents
That 5 more years of disastrous FF and FG government devastating and destituting their lives with austerity and higher taxes is a price worth paying to gain more seats ...
Their poor voters
it'll be a gamble as erudite as their candidate selection for February 2020

We can see the fallacy of trying to sledgehammer governments together. 128 days to concoct what even the negotiators are calling a 'wishlist' and one principal negotiator is probably not even going to vote for it.

Shambolic and desperate attempts to cling to power will always end in disaster, tears and gnashing of teeth and those involved usually pay the price.

Mortelaro · 17-06-2020 06:36PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

We can see the fallacy of trying to sledgehammer governments together. 128 days to concoct what even the negotiators are calling a 'wishlist' and one principal negotiator is probably not even going to vote for it.

Shambolic and desperate attempts to cling to power will always end in disaster, tears and gnashing of teeth and those involved usually pay the price.

And this speaks to Sinn Féins lack lustre efforts to form an alternative government how exactly?

FrancieBrady · 17-06-2020 06:39PM

Mortelaro wrote: »

And this speaks to Sinn Féins lack lustre efforts to form an alternative government how exactly?

You can call it lack lustre. I call it pragmatism...why sledgehammer an absurdity together as has been done over the last 128 days?
The power swap has gotten people used to this nonsense.

JohnnyFlash · 17-06-2020 06:43PM

There's a growing possibility that the Green Party members won't vote for the deal.

Then it's back to the drawing board. Mary Lou can put together a coalition of change with Labour, Social Democrats, Greens, Loony Left, and Independents. That's certainly change.

Or FF could throw MM and a few others under the bus, and start playing footsie with SF. Rotating Taoiseach etc.

FG go and sit in opposition.

Mortelaro · 17-06-2020 06:58PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You can call it lack lustre. I call it pragmatism...why sledgehammer an absurdity together as has been done over the last 128 days?
The power swap has gotten people used to this nonsense.

That's for the first time an admission ye lost the election
I don't see the sense in losing the opportunity to be in government aswell though
The power swap slur against the FF, FG and labour voters shown up of course as vacuous given SF's to date lack of effort at forming something of its own in those same 128 days
Its always someone else's fault I suppose...

FrancieBrady · 17-06-2020 07:10PM

Mortelaro wrote: »

That's for the first time an admission ye lost the election

Elections and government formation are two different things.
We had an election...we may not be able to have a government though

I don't see the sense in losing the opportunity to be in government aswell though
The power swap slur against the FF, FG and labour voters shown up of course as vacuous given SF's to date lack of effort at forming something of its own in those same 128 days
Its always someone else's fault I suppose...

Like people huffing about the factual descriptor 'partitionist' being an insult, the two parties have swapped power in this country since it's foundation...fact.

JohnnyFlash · 17-06-2020 07:12PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Like people huffing about the factual descriptor 'partitionist' being an insult, the two parties have swapped power in this country since it's foundation...fact.

It's who the people voted for, Francis. It's called democracy, and the Republic is a fine example of it.

FrancieBrady · 17-06-2020 07:21PM

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

It's who the people voted for, Francis. It's called democracy, and the Republic is a fine example of it.

And an ever decreasing number are falling for the pretence that they are different parties. Which was the con. Sad to say many fell for it.

JohnnyFlash · 17-06-2020 07:26PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And an ever decreasing number are falling for the pretence that they are different parties. Which was the con. Sad to say many fell for it.

The country was the poorest in Western Europe when we achieved independence. We are now ranked 3rd on the UN Human Development Index. That's in the world btw .

It was the terrorist wing of SF who did so much to try and undermine that. Even now they refuse to refer to it as the Republic of Ireland.

The hubris of 1st time SF supporters really is something else.

FrancieBrady · 17-06-2020 07:31PM

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

The country was the poorest in Western Europe when we achieved independence. We are now ranked 3rd on the UN Human Development Index. That's in the world btw .

It was the terrorist wing of SF who did so much to try and undermine that. Even now they refuse to refer to it as the Republic of Ireland.

The hubris of 1st time SF supporters really is something else.

86% vote share between them at it's height...44% today. Seems to me going up the rankings in the world was dependent on them falling in popularity. That's my read.

James Brown · 17-06-2020 07:50PM

Mortelaro wrote: »

Maths isn't a script, its numbers
The question remains, why SF could not persuade 80+ T.D's into its realm

Not looking good for FF/FG either. **** happens.

Mortelaro · 17-06-2020 07:51PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

86% vote share between them at it's height...44% today. Seems to me going up the rankings in the world was dependent on them falling in popularity. That's my read.

My read would be centre parliaments management works

Mortelaro · 17-06-2020 07:58PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Elections and government formation are two different things.
We had an election...we may not be able to have a government though

Like people huffing about the factual descriptor 'partitionist' being an insult, the two parties have swapped power in this country since it's foundation...fact.

Your still not addressing SF's abdication of government forming responsibility

Oh and A swap is consensual btw
Up to the last Dáil FF and FG most certainly did not consent to the other being in power,so you are of course factually wrong on that matter

FrancieBrady · 17-06-2020 08:03PM

Mortelaro wrote: »

Your still not addressing SF's abdication of government forming responsibility

You call it 'abdication' I say there is no onus on anybody to form a sledgehammered government. The numbers to create a cohesive government that could complete a programme of government were not there.

There doesn't seem to be the numbers to form a government to implement a 'wishlist' even.

Oh and A swap is consensual btw
Up to the last Dáil FF and FG most certainly did not consent to the other being in power,so you are of course factually wrong on that matter

You are obviously one of the ever diminishing 44%. No surprise there.

Gunmonkey · 17-06-2020 08:33PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

86% vote share between them at it's height...44% today. Seems to me going up the rankings in the world was dependent on them falling in popularity. That's my read.

Oh oh oh is it "random things connected together and presented as an argument" time? Always loved that:

-rise of Sinn Fein and the degredation of the global climate
-increase in Irish ranking on UN Human Development Index JohnnyFlash mentioned and the partition of North and South Ireland,which SF wants to reverse...so they want worse lives for the citizens of this island
-Sinn Fein wins a lot of votes in last election, worldwide pandemic of highly infectious disease....coincidence?

Just my read.

(PS, can you find me the % vote share of the last 3 general elections, and compare that to Irelands rankings for quality of life, because surely by your assertion it would only have increased from February...right?)

FrancieBrady · 17-06-2020 08:42PM

Gunmonkey wrote: »

Oh oh oh is it "random things connected together and presented as an argument" time? Always loved that:

-rise of Sinn Fein and the degredation of the global climate
-increase in Irish ranking on UN Human Development Index JohnnyFlash mentioned and the partition of North and South Ireland,which SF wants to reverse...so they want worse lives for the citizens of this island
-Sinn Fein wins a lot of votes in last election, worldwide pandemic of highly infectious disease....coincidence?

Just my read.

(PS, can you find me the % vote share of the last 3 general elections, and compare that to Irelands rankings for quality of life, because surely by your assertion it would only have increased from February...right?)

The sarcasm in my post went right over your head.

Our ranking may have gone up, the electorate are not crediting the two parties with that as the fall in their vote share shows.

Maybe, just maybe the electorate are coming around to the view that maybe our ranking should be higher and maybe everybody might get a chance to feel the benefits of it?

Because Feb sure as hell showed they were pissed at FF and FG's efforts.

17-06-2020 09:01PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You can call it lack lustre. I call it pragmatism...why sledgehammer an absurdity together as has been done over the last 128 days?
The power swap has gotten people used to this nonsense.

You do know that we’ve been through a pandemic necessitating a three month (and counting) lockdown? The government have been more occupied with that.

Mortelaro · 17-06-2020 09:04PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You call it 'abdication' I say there is no onus on anybody to form a sledgehammered government. The numbers to create a cohesive government that could complete a programme of government were not there.

Of course Sinn Féins vast experience of negotiating governments has contributed to this omnipotent view
Voters,we don't want to implement our policies until,
you give us a majority
Problem with that strategy is the high risk that the government formed instead Neuters a lot of the disaffected by being a success

You are obviously one of the ever diminishing 44%. No surprise there.

I'd rather say I'm in the 70% centre actually

FrancieBrady · 17-06-2020 09:08PM

Mortelaro wrote: »

Voters,we don't want to implement our policies until,
you give us a majority

Now you are back to just inventing something that was said.

Mortelaro · 17-06-2020 09:23PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Now you are back to just inventing something that was said.

Just my read

But risky move on ye're part I must say
Except my other read is ye just couldn't give a Fuck about government as long as the wages keep coming in...

FrancieBrady · 17-06-2020 09:25PM

Mortelaro wrote: »

Just my read
But risky move on ye're part I must say
Except my other read is ye just couldn't give a Fuck about government as long as the wages keep coming in...

You are good at making things up to read. Carry on till your carried off, as they say.

Mortelaro · 17-06-2020 09:33PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You are good at making things up to read. Carry on till your carried off, as they say.

My Granny used prefer 'you're a rogue and I'm another '

JohnnyFlash · 17-06-2020 09:49PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

86% vote share between them at it's height...44% today. Seems to me going up the rankings in the world was dependent on them falling in popularity. That's my read.

I hope you don't play poker, Francie (even with Sean Quinn for a few quid), because that's a terrible read.

blanch152 · 17-06-2020 11:23PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Because Feb sure as hell showed they were pissed at FF and FG's efforts.

The world has changed a lot since last February.

Sinn Fein are stuck in the old paradigm, risk being left behind.

blanch152 · 17-06-2020 11:26PM

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

.

The hubris of 1st time SF supporters really is something else.

There are a lot of them around, most of them of the calibre of the 1st time SF TDs like Reada and Violet.

Is it just me or have SF vanished?

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