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Is it just me or have SF vanished?

Pkiernan

I haven't seen or heard anything from Mary Lou, Slab Murphy and other good Republicans in ages.

What's going on?

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FrancieBrady

maestroamado wrote: »

Mary lou will put nothing together and she knows it, she is just a whinger.
Its important to know what you know, however....
"it's just as important to know what you don't know"
She simply has not got it and she knows it, that's why she has being quiet since the election..

In fairness, I think any party in Ireland...even Peter Casey and the Healy Raes if they got together could come up with a fantasy PfG like the one we have.
My youngest could do it...he's good at what Michael Martin called it...'wishlists', especially if you ask him around Christmas.

FrancieBrady

Yeah_Right wrote: »

It was established by a Sinn Fein supporter in one of the other threads that if you vote for anything other than what they want then you anti-democratic. Democracy only works if everyone agrees with Sinn Fein.

Can you link to that post?

maestroamado

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

There's a growing possibility that the Green Party members won't vote for the deal.

Then it's back to the drawing board. Mary Lou can put together a coalition of change with Labour, Social Democrats, Greens, Loony Left, and Independents. That's certainly change.

Or FF could throw MM and a few others under the bus, and start playing footsie with SF. Rotating Taoiseach etc.

FG go and sit in opposition.

Mary lou will put nothing together and she knows it, she is just a whinger.
Its important to know what you know, however....
"it's just as important to know what you don't know"
She simply has not got it and she knows it, that's why she has being quiet since the election..

McMurphy

Yeah_Right wrote: »

It was established by a Sinn Fein supporter in one of the other threads that if you vote for anything other than what they want then you anti-democratic. Democracy only works if everyone agrees with Sinn Fein.

Unfortunately, it has been the trait of those traditionally voting for anyone but SF on these threads to label those not voting for fg/ff with derogatory terms, doleheads - layabouts - terrorist supporters - looney lefts - communists etc etc etc.

Certainly became a hell of a lot more evident post Feb elections when fg seen themselves leapfrogged by the shinners. Meltdown I think it could be aptly described.

Very poorly thought out post imo.

Yeah_Right

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

It's who the people voted for, Francis. It's called democracy, and the Republic is a fine example of it.

It was established by a Sinn Fein supporter in one of the other threads that if you vote for anything other than what they want then you anti-democratic. Democracy only works if everyone agrees with Sinn Fein.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

And your alternative is what exactly? Jump up and down on a keyboard and give out about it?

SF has done nothing, literally nothing since the election in an effort to form a government. PBP sent them a letter which afaik, they didn't even bother responding to. That shows you SF's interest right there.

Hey...maybe they don't want to talk to PBP...isn't that ok? To decide you don't want to talk to another party with a mandate?

Happy out to be in opposiition while carrying out the 'But da establishment is against us' **** talk.

So what alternative practical solution is there?

Another election?
SF and FG and others?
SF and FF and others?

What is your proposal on what should have happened?

Another guy talking up 'de crisis'.

Yes another election of they cannot form a government. That is how it should work according to the constitution and the democratic process.

And we'll have no more huffing that the electorate don't want us, next time out.
A few lessons on how to do coalition properly might be an idea for FF and FG too.

It isn't about buying souls with garda stations and by passes or codding smaller parties and the electorate with fantasy programme for governments.

markodaly

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

There's a growing possibility that the Green Party members won't vote for the deal.

Then it's back to the drawing board. Mary Lou can put together a coalition of change with Labour, Social Democrats, Greens, Loony Left, and Independents. That's certainly change.

Or FF could throw MM and a few others under the bus, and start playing footsie with SF. Rotating Taoiseach etc.

FG go and sit in opposition.

If the Greens reject it and they may well do, then its curtains for them and also other left-wing parties of their ilk.
What is the point of them, if when given the chance they have an opportunity at power and making an actual difference but they leave the dance without even giving it a go.

Megaphone politics won't solve the big problems. The electorate will see that and may well switch back in huge numbers to the safety of not only FG but also FG.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

We can see the fallacy of trying to sledgehammer governments together. 128 days to concoct what even the negotiators are calling a 'wishlist' and one principal negotiator is probably not even going to vote for it.

Shambolic and desperate attempts to cling to power will always end in disaster, tears and gnashing of teeth and those involved usually pay the price.

And your alternative is what exactly? Jump up and down on a keyboard and give out about it?

SF has done nothing, literally nothing since the election in an effort to form a government. PBP sent them a letter which afaik, they didn't even bother responding to. That shows you SF's interest right there. Happy out to be in opposiition while carrying out the 'But da establishment is against us' **** talk.

So what alternative practical solution is there?

Another election?
SF and FG and others?
SF and FF and others?

What is your proposal on what should have happened?

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You can ask the same ridiculous question of an independent...why couldn't Michael Lowry persuade the other 80+ into his realm.

He didn't and he couldn't. The numbers were not there.

Is anything simpler to understand?

So, you are essentially saying that SF have no confidence in its own vision for Ireland or its own manifesto that it couldn't convince a majority of TD's in the Dail to back it?

Telling, very very telling.

Hamsterchops

Does every country have this dilemma

We're called this, oh no we're not because we're called that, well I don't agree with either of those names, because I say we're called something else!

Ireland, Eire, Southern Ireland, Northern Ireland, the South, the North, the Free State, 32 Counties, Six Counties, the North of Ireland, the South of Ireland, the island of Ireland. The Republic of Ireland.

Hibernia.

jm08

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Ireland or Éire. I'm a native speaker myself so we would always have used the former ourselves. Maybe I'm a bit 'jippy' with the idea of former planters who flipped, men from the Pale, and bitter civil war Cork men suddenly having some of narrative on what it means to be Irish.

I don't understand what you are getting at here when you say:

''Even now they refuse to refer to it as the Republic of Ireland.''

Could you explain please?

JohnnyFlash

Mortelaro wrote: »

Its name isn't 'the state' or the 'free state' either
Its official name is just Ireland

Ireland or Éire. I'm a native speaker myself so we would always have used the former ourselves. Maybe I'm a bit 'jippy' with the idea of former planters who flipped, men from the Pale, and bitter civil war Cork men suddenly having some of narrative on what it means to be Irish.

Mortelaro

jm08 wrote: »

Republic of Ireland isn't the name of the country, it's the name of the soccer team. Why are you insisting that they refer to it as Rep. Of Ireland?

Its name isn't 'the state' or the 'free state' either
Its official name is just Ireland

jm08

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

The country was the poorest in Western Europe when we achieved independence. We are now ranked 3rd on the UN Human Development Index. That's in the world btw .

It was the terrorist wing of SF who did so much to try and undermine that. Even now they refuse to refer to it as the Republic of Ireland.

The hubris of 1st time SF supporters really is something else.

Republic of Ireland isn't the name of the country, it's the name of the soccer team. Why are you insisting that they refer to it as Rep. Of Ireland?

blanch152

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

.

The hubris of 1st time SF supporters really is something else.

There are a lot of them around, most of them of the calibre of the 1st time SF TDs like Reada and Violet.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Because Feb sure as hell showed they were pissed at FF and FG's efforts.

The world has changed a lot since last February.

Sinn Fein are stuck in the old paradigm, risk being left behind.

JohnnyFlash

FrancieBrady wrote: »

86% vote share between them at it's height...44% today. Seems to me going up the rankings in the world was dependent on them falling in popularity. That's my read.

I hope you don't play poker, Francie (even with Sean Quinn for a few quid), because that's a terrible read.

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You are good at making things up to read. Carry on till your carried off, as they say.

My Granny used prefer 'you're a rogue and I'm another '

FrancieBrady

Mortelaro wrote: »

Just my read
But risky move on ye're part I must say
Except my other read is ye just couldn't give a Fuck about government as long as the wages keep coming in...

You are good at making things up to read. Carry on till your carried off, as they say.

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Now you are back to just inventing something that was said.

Just my read

But risky move on ye're part I must say
Except my other read is ye just couldn't give a Fuck about government as long as the wages keep coming in...

FrancieBrady

Mortelaro wrote: »

Voters,we don't want to implement our policies until,
you give us a majority

Now you are back to just inventing something that was said.

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You call it 'abdication' I say there is no onus on anybody to form a sledgehammered government. The numbers to create a cohesive government that could complete a programme of government were not there.

Of course Sinn Féins vast experience of negotiating governments has contributed to this omnipotent view
Voters,we don't want to implement our policies until,
you give us a majority
Problem with that strategy is the high risk that the government formed instead Neuters a lot of the disaffected by being a success

You are obviously one of the ever diminishing 44%. No surprise there.

I'd rather say I'm in the 70% centre actually

[Deleted User]

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You can call it lack lustre. I call it pragmatism...why sledgehammer an absurdity together as has been done over the last 128 days?
The power swap has gotten people used to this nonsense.

You do know that we’ve been through a pandemic necessitating a three month (and counting) lockdown? The government have been more occupied with that.

FrancieBrady

Gunmonkey wrote: »

Oh oh oh is it "random things connected together and presented as an argument" time? Always loved that:

-rise of Sinn Fein and the degredation of the global climate
-increase in Irish ranking on UN Human Development Index JohnnyFlash mentioned and the partition of North and South Ireland,which SF wants to reverse...so they want worse lives for the citizens of this island
-Sinn Fein wins a lot of votes in last election, worldwide pandemic of highly infectious disease....coincidence?

Just my read.

(PS, can you find me the % vote share of the last 3 general elections, and compare that to Irelands rankings for quality of life, because surely by your assertion it would only have increased from February...right?)

The sarcasm in my post went right over your head.

Our ranking may have gone up, the electorate are not crediting the two parties with that as the fall in their vote share shows.

Maybe, just maybe the electorate are coming around to the view that maybe our ranking should be higher and maybe everybody might get a chance to feel the benefits of it?

Because Feb sure as hell showed they were pissed at FF and FG's efforts.

Gunmonkey

FrancieBrady wrote: »

86% vote share between them at it's height...44% today. Seems to me going up the rankings in the world was dependent on them falling in popularity. That's my read.

Oh oh oh is it "random things connected together and presented as an argument" time? Always loved that:

-rise of Sinn Fein and the degredation of the global climate
-increase in Irish ranking on UN Human Development Index JohnnyFlash mentioned and the partition of North and South Ireland,which SF wants to reverse...so they want worse lives for the citizens of this island
-Sinn Fein wins a lot of votes in last election, worldwide pandemic of highly infectious disease....coincidence?

Just my read.

(PS, can you find me the % vote share of the last 3 general elections, and compare that to Irelands rankings for quality of life, because surely by your assertion it would only have increased from February...right?)

FrancieBrady

Mortelaro wrote: »

Your still not addressing SF's abdication of government forming responsibility

You call it 'abdication' I say there is no onus on anybody to form a sledgehammered government. The numbers to create a cohesive government that could complete a programme of government were not there.

There doesn't seem to be the numbers to form a government to implement a 'wishlist' even.

Oh and A swap is consensual btw
Up to the last Dáil FF and FG most certainly did not consent to the other being in power,so you are of course factually wrong on that matter

You are obviously one of the ever diminishing 44%. No surprise there.

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Elections and government formation are two different things.
We had an election...we may not be able to have a government though

Like people huffing about the factual descriptor 'partitionist' being an insult, the two parties have swapped power in this country since it's foundation...fact.

Your still not addressing SF's abdication of government forming responsibility

Oh and A swap is consensual btw
Up to the last Dáil FF and FG most certainly did not consent to the other being in power,so you are of course factually wrong on that matter

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

86% vote share between them at it's height...44% today. Seems to me going up the rankings in the world was dependent on them falling in popularity. That's my read.

My read would be centre parliaments management works

James Brown

Mortelaro wrote: »

Maths isn't a script, its numbers
The question remains, why SF could not persuade 80+ T.D's into its realm

Not looking good for FF/FG either. **** happens.

FrancieBrady

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

The country was the poorest in Western Europe when we achieved independence. We are now ranked 3rd on the UN Human Development Index. That's in the world btw .

It was the terrorist wing of SF who did so much to try and undermine that. Even now they refuse to refer to it as the Republic of Ireland.

The hubris of 1st time SF supporters really is something else.

86% vote share between them at it's height...44% today. Seems to me going up the rankings in the world was dependent on them falling in popularity. That's my read.