Covid19 Part XVIII-25,473 in ROI(1,736 deaths) 5,760 in NI (551 deaths)(30/06)Read OP

17-06-2020 08:09PM

Boggles wrote: »

The Public Health Officials in both countries completely disagree with you.

As does evidence based studies on mask usage and this actual virus, not to mention various other studies on mask usage and similar respiratory illnesses.

But make no mistake they will be mandatory here soon enough, at least for public transport.

Bit like our public transport, hilariously late.

Why have our numbers dropped to a lower level than Czech Republic then without masks? They hit it early with every measure, but you can not tell which one made the most impact. But the fact that we made it so low without mandatory masks suggests it’s the restrictions and distancing that made the difference

jackboy · 17-06-2020 08:14PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Why have our numbers dropped to a lower level than Czech Republic then without masks? They hit it early with every measure, but you can not tell which one made the most impact. But the fact that we made it so low without mandatory masks suggests it’s the restrictions and distancing that made the difference

I suspect that the only measure that made a true difference was the large reduction of indoor gatherings of adults. It seems that pretty much all spikes were down to people packed indoors.

ACitizenErased · 17-06-2020 08:21PM

I think it's fairly commonly agreed we should have done a lot in the past. I'm not sure why people are still pushing that narrative when literally everybody agrees.

Rob A. Bank · 17-06-2020 08:35PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Why have our numbers dropped to a lower level than Czech Republic then without masks? They hit it early with every measure, but you can not tell which one made the most impact. But the fact that we made it so low without mandatory masks suggests it’s the restrictions and distancing that made the difference

No one needs a mask when you are locked up in a cave at home, with very little interaction with other people... and the Czech republic has a population of 10.7 million... more than twice our population.

The masks become important when things open up, or do you not believe the science about pre-symptomatic and asymptomatic spread ?

Goldengirl · 17-06-2020 08:40PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

You may feel they are necessary but unless they are made mandatory I can't see a large uptake tbh.

As per Sheepdish's post , I agree that there might be a little more psychology going on than we think.
I reckon they are gradually getting people used to the idea of mask wearing and that it may come to a choice in the next month or so that if we want to ditch the 2 m we have to wear masks.

Eod100 · 17-06-2020 08:45PM

thelad95 wrote: »

What should really be done right now in regards to public transport, is INCREASE SERVICES. This was done from day one in some Scandinavian countries and worked a treat.

If buses can only host 20 or so bodies, then RUN MORE OF THEM. This is hardly ground breaking stuff and can make social distancing more plausible on public transport.

Aren't they back to usual Monday to Friday services for the most part?

Plumbthedepths · 17-06-2020 08:46PM

Goldengirl wrote: »

As per Sheepdish's post , I agree that there might be a little more psychology going on than we think.
I reckon they are gradually getting people used to the idea of mask wearing and that it may come to a choice in the next month or so that if we want to ditch the 2 m we have to wear masks.

Unfortunately many people believe we have beaten the virus without the widespread use of masks so personally it's going to be very difficult to put forward the necessary reasoning for wearing them. Possibly on public transport but even then I can't see bus drivers in particular fighting with would be passengers to wear them. SD seems to have done the job here along with hand hygiene.
I don't have an issue with people wearing masks or not but what does amuse me is someone wearing a mask with their nose uncovered. Bit like wearing an underpants with your nuts hanging out.

Rob A. Bank · 17-06-2020 08:53PM

The CMO et al spent 3 months convincing us that masks were useless and a bad idea for Joe public. Perhaps this may be the reason for the poor compliance with this new masking advice.

They also said that fiddling with the mask was a mortal sin and now tell us that we should wear a mask on public transport and in shops, but not elsewhere.

Did it cross their minds that this advice may even be counterproductive as people may take them on and off repeatedly and risk transferring the virus to their hands each time ?

ACitizenErased · 17-06-2020 09:03PM

Germany reporting one of its largest daily case totals in a while today. Almost 650 cases. Last time they were that high was the 22nd of May.

edit: its a massive slaughterhouse outbreak

Goldengirl · 17-06-2020 09:03PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Unfortunately many people believe we have beaten the virus without the widespread use of masks so personally it's going to be very difficult to put forward the necessary reasoning for wearing them. Possibly on public transport but even then I can't see bus drivers in particular fighting with would be passengers to wear them. SD seems to have done the job here along with hand hygiene.

Yes. I think 1 m is less safe but in certain areas properly done it should be ok . But if groups like VFI and IBEC keep pushing beyond 1m distance that advantage may be lost . All you need is a couple of cases in a pub or crowded area and it'll be off again .
I don't think mandatory public maskwearing is a step too far at this stage for a lot of people, after everything we have had to do in the last 3 months all of which was totally alien to us.
I would prefer if it wasn't mandatory , but it may be necessary without SD .

Steve F · 17-06-2020 09:05PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Unfortunately many people believe we have beaten the virus without the widespread use of masks so personally it's going to be very difficult to put forward the necessary reasoning for wearing them. Possibly on public transport but even then I can't see bus drivers in particular fighting with would be passengers to wear them. SD seems to have done the job here along with hand hygiene.
I don't have an issue with people wearing masks or not but what does amuse me is someone wearing a mask with their nose uncovered. Bit like wearing an underpants with your nuts hanging out.

Re:-The last part about wearing a mask with their nose uncovered
This more than anything else demonstrates how some haven't the slightest idea how viruses are spread.
The same sort of people that think:-
You can get a "touch" of the flu by going outside with wet hair or sitting in a draught.
Flat Seven up cures everything.
Lemsip cures the common cold.
And on and on we've all met em ðŸ˜Š

17-06-2020 09:06PM

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

No one needs a mask when you are locked up in a cave at home, with very little interaction with other people... and the Czech republic has a population of 10.7 million... more than twice our population.

The masks become important when things open up, or do you not believe the science about pre-symptomatic and asymptomatic spread ?

So that’s why the Czech Republic has removed mandatory masks when numbers have dropped? numbers by the way which have never dropped as low as we have now, even when adjusted to population. I don’t deny that in certain situations masks can have value, however there seems to be a certain emotional attachment to masks as a visual representation of doing something, anything, when many feel helpless in the face of uncertainty

polesheep · 17-06-2020 09:10PM

Deleted User wrote: »

It’s management of risk. Less than 2 meters for 15 minutes is not a guarantee that you will get it. It’s just where 90% of transmissions occur. But with a tiny number of cases the risk of encountering and infected individual is so much lower, so the overall number of potential infections from 1 metre for 90 minutes is currently low

So an infected person who could have infected me in less than 15 minutes now cannot infect me in less than 90 minutes. Yeah, I get it.:rolleyes:

timsey tiger · 17-06-2020 09:13PM

polesheep wrote: »

So an infected person who could have infected me in less than 15 minutes now cannot infect me in less than 90 minutes. Yeah, I get it.:rolleyes:

Oh dear you didn't get it. Don't worry maybe you are good with your hands.

ZX7R · 17-06-2020 09:17PM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Germany reporting one of its largest daily case totals in a while today. Almost 650 cases. Last time they were that high was the 22nd of May.

edit: its a massive slaughterhouse outbreak

Yes it is and 7000 close contacts asked to self isolate for 2 weeks, schools and daycare centers have been closed till the 29th of June in the local area
This latest outbreak has Germany to issue new strict regulations in the industry.

Goldengirl · 17-06-2020 09:18PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So that’s why the Czech Republic has removed mandatory masks when numbers have dropped? numbers by the way which have never dropped as low as we have now, even when adjusted to population. I don’t deny that in certain situations masks can have value, however there seems to be a certain emotional attachment to masks as a visual representation of doing something, anything, when many feel helpless in the face of uncertainty

Unfortunately after the news today of the VFI getting the distance down to1 m , after pressure and lobbying , we may soon be helpless in the face of uncertainty ,as you say.
If this is in accordance with public health advice, why stop there?
This decision needs to be explained to all of us who have followed the advice and worked hard to get the numbers down .

polesheep · 17-06-2020 09:18PM

timsey tiger wrote: »

Oh dear you didn't get it. Don't worry maybe you are good with your hands.

I did 'get it'. One infected person, however, can spread the virus as easily whether they are in contact with others for 15 or 90 minutes. We have been told again and again that it only takes one infection to wipe us all out. BTW I think both 15 and 90 are nonsense figures.

17-06-2020 09:19PM

polesheep wrote: »

So an infected person who could have infected me in less than 15 minutes now cannot infect me in less than 90 minutes. Yeah, I get it.:rolleyes:

To spell it out for you.. if you have a 10% chance of catching it at less than two meters for more than 15minutes but meet 10 infected individuals, or have an 50% chance of catching from 90 minutes at 1 metre but only encounter 1 infected individual, which presents the greater risk? It’s simple really

Rob A. Bank · 17-06-2020 09:20PM

Deleted User wrote: »

It’s management of risk. Less than 2 meters for 15 minutes is not a guarantee that you will get it. It’s just where 90% of transmissions occur. But with a tiny number of cases the risk of encountering and infected individual is so much lower, so the overall number of potential infections from 1 metre for 90 minutes is currently low

Can anyone point me to the science behind this time limit ?

Most of the advice to date has been based on rehashed TB advice about droplet spread, totally ignoring the ever increasing evidence of aerosol spread for this nasty virus.

timsey tiger · 17-06-2020 09:21PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Evidence to me is the early reaction helped Czech republic, Slovakia etc, but based on what has happened here and elsewhere the masks didn’t make a significant difference, it was implementing restrictions prior to exponential growth getting out of control. We didn’t react as well as they did, but better than Italy, Spain, UK,Belgium. Mid table obscurity. With a good run in from here to winter we make make the Europa league of European COVID responses. But champions league is out of reach

I'm not hopeful with the vfi getting their way and the covid19 reservoir across the irish sea.

ACitizenErased · 17-06-2020 09:26PM

ZX7R wrote: »

Yes it is and 7000 close contacts asked to self isolate for 2 weeks, schools and daycare centers have been closed till the 29th of June in the local area
This latest outbreak has Germany to issue new strict regulations in the industry.

Apparently there was a busload of workers who went to Poland and Romania too last weekend. Christ, what a sh*t-show.

Goldengirl · 17-06-2020 09:30PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

To spell it out for you.. if you have a 10% chance of catching it at less than two meters for more than 15minutes but meet 10 infected individuals, or have an 50% chance of catching from 90 minutes at 1 metre but only encounter 1 infected individual, which presents the greater risk? It’s simple really

I do get what you are saying but I for once understand the other argument .
The assumption of those calculations is that you will be facing one person , with your table 1 m away .
However if a table is along the side of you at 1m away you are going to be spending 90 MINS possibly in the way of some other person , not in your group .
What's the difference there with that and going for a haircut?
If that is being allowed why not barbers , hairdressers and all businesses wher there is a time limit to the transaction .?

(By the way as you know I have always been on the side of caution , so this is a genuine concern, not kite flying. )

Beasty · 17-06-2020 09:30PM

Following discussion with user and assurances given over future posting, owlbethere's threadban is now lifted

Martin567 · 17-06-2020 09:34PM

Goldengirl wrote: »

I don't think mandatory public maskwearing is a step too far at this stage for a lot of people, after everything we have had to do in the last 3 months all of which was totally alien to us.
I would prefer if it wasn't mandatory , but it may be necessary without SD .

Masks can't possibly be mandatory in bars, cafes or restaurants. Surely I don't need to explain the reason why!

ACitizenErased · 17-06-2020 09:37PM

RE: Germany, they actually added 1759 cases today. That includes 700 slaughterhouse cases. Biggest number since April 24th.

17-06-2020 09:38PM

Goldengirl wrote: »

I do get what you are saying but I for once understand the other argument .
The assumption of those calculations is that you will be facing one person , with your table 1 m away .
However if a table is along the side of you at 1m away you are going to be spending 90 MINS possibly in the way of some other person , not in your group .
What's the difference there with that and going for a haircut?
If that is being allowed why not barbers , hairdressers and all businesses wher there is a time limit to the transaction .?

Being bald I don’t care about a haircut but I would say it’s a service that is required having met a colleague yesterday for the first time in 3 months. But face to face presents the greater risk, and we have all experienced the evidence of why when you feel that little droplet on your face when talking to someone “expressive” at close distance

Goldengirl · 17-06-2020 09:40PM

Martin567 wrote: »

Masks can't possibly be mandatory in bars, cafes or restaurants. Surely I don't need to explain the reason why!

Excuse me , where the hel ldid you get that from my posts ?
We are discussing how 2m SD went to1m and is still safe.
Masks would of course be if SD was reduced or done away with elsewhere as well

Un1corn · 17-06-2020 09:40PM

Close to 2000 cases here in Germany today. What a ****show.

Goldengirl · 17-06-2020 09:42PM

Martin567 wrote: »

Masks can't possibly be mandatory in bars, cafes or restaurants. Surely I don't need to explain the reason why!

Excuse me , where the hell did you get that from my posts ?
We are discussing how 2m SD went to1m and is still safe.
Masks would of course be if SD was reduced or done away with elsewhere as well .

ACitizenErased · 17-06-2020 09:45PM

Un1corn wrote: »

Close to 2000 cases here in Germany today. What a ****show.

This is just the beginning, if stories are to be believed that slaughterhouse is going to cause mayhem.

Covid19 Part XVIII-25,473 in ROI(1,736 deaths) 5,760 in NI (551 deaths)(30/06)Read OP

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