Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

Suckit · 31-05-2020 11:49PM

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

€8 pints will be needed to save the pubs, anyone thinking that those fond of circa €1 cans are going to rush to the pubs is deluded, illegal drugs it will be and lots of them that the state will make the grand sum of zero from.

Not disagreeing, but I'm of the belief that the pubs already make a massive proift.
Maybe not so many of the newer ones with tons of staff and high rents, but they are still fairly comfortable using the existing prices. The older owned pubs should be okay, as should the rural locations.
I can't see a whole heap of people (especially younger people) rushing to the pubs after this summer to pay their ridiculous prices.
€8 pints may be required if many of them want to keep their lifestyle, but if sacrifices are expected to be made to stay open, imo it's going to have to be the pubs and not likely to be the customers that are going to make them.
Pubs will suffer for a while longer, at least until they reinforce the ban on public drinking. Pints should but may not drop in price if they want people in the doors. Michael O'Leary school of business. Charge more for the food etc. when they're drunk. :rolleyes:
Rising the price of off-licence alcohol in Ireland is likely to going to have a heap of people with vans heading to mainland Europe to stock up and then sell it back here. Probably funding crime. It's a terrible copycat idea.

I still don't understand the reasoning behind it, as none of the reasons I have heard make any sense.

titan18 · 31-05-2020 11:58PM

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

What they should do to cover multiple issues is increase the price but as a recycling incentive and if you bring the bottle or can back, you get an amount back.

I know in Germany, it's called pfand system and when I was there before travelling, thought it worked well.

If people don't bring theirs back and litter, not only do they get hit with the increased cost, but people short of money will clean up the litter for extra money for themselves.

Hotblack Desiato · 01-06-2020 12:25AM

Geuze wrote: »

If the rate of VAT is x%, then VAT is not x% of the retail price.

That is a common, typical mistake.

4.00 cider less 23% VAT = 4.00/1.23 = 3.25

VAT is 75c, or 18.75% of the price.

Excise is 94.46 per hectolitre, or 94.46 cent per litre.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/companies-and-charities/excise-and-licences/excise-duty-rates/alcohol-products-tax.aspx

So 1.89 excise + 0.75 VAT = 2.64 tax on the 4.00 cider.

So... who is paying 4 euro for a can of cider in an off-licence again?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 01-06-2020 12:41AM

Geuze wrote: »

Where is this "way too cheap" drink you speak of?

50cl of beer starts at 29c in Germany.

Bottles of spirits from 10 euro in Lidl Germany:

https://www.lidl-flyer.com/beste-weine-fur-jeden-anlass-30-04-2020-31-05-2020/view/flyer/page/20?_ga=2.23769786.1473263943.1590405183-1404584930.1590405183

Yeah, but the quality of a 29c beer is not great (although better than budweiser).

Potential-Monke · 01-06-2020 01:43AM

odyssey06 wrote: »

The interaction between alcohol and health is complex, as all risks mortality studies have shown. Are there no problem drinkers in pubs? No drink drivers coming home from pubs? You'll have to come up with some actual arguments here, "if we actually cared" is not an argument worthy of any respect, it's a pretty tired debating tactic, trying to paint people opposed to this measure as somehow less caring. Why not throw in a "will someone please think of the children"?

I probably worded it wrong, I'm not good with words sometimes. What I meant was, alcohol is a pretty dangerous thing and we still allow advertising, it's quite profitable for the higher ups and government. This faux care they peddle with the effects of alcohol compaigns and the drink driving ads, they don't do much really, other than be a tick box for someone to say 'We tried this!'. All the while knowing that it's a great earner so they don't really want to stop people drinking. Just my opinion mind.

And I couldn't care less about the children, it's me I care about. I spent 9 years as a Garda, and the vast majority of incidents were drink related. I suppose dealing with that shyte, sober, turned me against the idea. I've since quit the Guards, stopped drinking and become a stoner. Far better life because of it. Can't really see the draw of it any more. And I've finally come to realise that I've been lying to myself for years thinking that drink tastes nice. It doesn't. We just fool ourselves into finding the one we find most palatable and begin to think it's nice. Again, just my opinion (craft beer is mank).

Reading some comments in defence of alcohol reminds me of comments in defence of weed. Just happens one is legal and the other isn't. And I suppose when I was last drinking, I was getting 12 cans for €10 (St. Etienne from Aldi, was lovely stuff when I was drinking imo, it's the smaller bubbles). That's pretty cheap to me. Means for €20 I can get messy drunk!

Meh, doesn't bother me anyway. Between the above and Covid, I probably won't be at large gatherings again so doesn't affect me.

Capt'n Midnight · 01-06-2020 04:15PM

Potential-Monke wrote: »

And I suppose when I was last drinking, I was getting 12 cans for €10 (St. Etienne from Aldi, was lovely stuff when I was drinking imo, it's the smaller bubbles). That's pretty cheap to me.

MUP means it will double in price to €20

VAT means that in theory the revenue will get €1.87 more from the VAT on that extra tenner.
But in reality they won't as that extra tenner would likely otherwise be spent on something that has VAT.

But ALDI will pocket €8.13 for doing nothing at all, because they will still be buying from their supplier at the same price.

Hotblack Desiato · 01-06-2020 10:01PM

Potential-Monke wrote: »

I spent 9 years as a Garda, and the vast majority of incidents were drink related.

I suspect you were dealing with arseholes who happened to be drinkers, rather than non-arsehole drinkers who the drink somehow turned into arseholes.

We just fool ourselves into finding the one we find most palatable and begin to think it's nice. Again, just my opinion (craft beer is mank).

:rolleyes: and then you go on to say how you liked St. Etienne from Aldi. A true connoisseur of the grain and the grape...

KrustyUCC · 02-06-2020 10:52AM

New figures show that 24 million fewer pints of beer and cider were consumed in Ireland in April 2020 compared to April 2019.

Alcohol sales increased in the off-trade in April, but overall, the closure of the on-trade resulted in a fall in the total amount consumed in Ireland.

Looking at beer and cider, data from Nielsen shows there was a 58% increase in the volume of beer and cider sold in the off-trade, but overall sales of beer and cider fell by 36% due to pubs being closed. It's estimated that generally around 60% of beer and cider sales are in the on-trade.

The numbers on the sale of spirits show a similar trend, with 4.9 million fewer 35.5ml serves of spirits sold in April 2020 compared to the previous year. There was a 24% increase in the volume of off-trade sales, but a 13% overall decrease in the volume of spirits sold in Ireland.

brightspark · 03-06-2020 03:48AM

Weren't we told that the cheap drink from off-licences was the main cause of excessive alcohol consumption in this country, yet overall consumption has fallen at at time when the only sales are via off-licences when many people were stuck at home with more free time available, no worries about having to drive the following morning etc.

Leroy42 · 03-06-2020 06:43AM

brightspark wrote: »

Weren't we told that the cheap drink from off-licences was the main cause of excessive alcohol consumption in this country, yet overall consumption has fallen at at time when the only sales are via off-licences when many people were stuck at home with more free time available, no worries about having to drive the following morning etc.

Yeah. The numbers would seem to suggest that it is the pubs that are the main issue.

L1011 · 03-06-2020 09:58AM

Remember, Drinking in Pubs is Perfectly Safe, according to the LVA/VFI :pac:

odyssey06 · 03-06-2020 10:03AM

L1011 wrote: »

Remember, Drinking in Pubs is Perfectly Safe, according to the LVA/VFI :pac:

Under all circumstances. The unique atmosphere of a pub also protects drinkers against all known coronaviruses

da_miser · 03-06-2020 10:11AM

You all getting your knickers in a twist about something that was on the cards when the country was prosperous.
The nation is heading into a serious financial crisis, the one comfort people will have during this hard time will be a few drinks, the Government wont be shutting of this pressure release valve.
If Dublin can have a protest for BLM, (the usual suspect turned out for that), a protest about something that happened half a world away with ZERO relevance in Ireland, (thats the truth, we all know it but not PC to admit it) imagine the amount of people out protesting if they can afford a drink during a recession? The stuff of nightmares for the Government.
Your drink is safe, don't panic.

L1011 · 03-06-2020 10:22AM

da_miser wrote: »

You all getting your knickers in a twist about something that was on the cards when the country was prosperous.
The nation is heading into a serious financial crisis, the one comfort people will have during this hard time will be a few drinks, the Government wont be shutting of this pressure release valve.
If Dublin can have a protest for BLM, (the usual suspect turned out for that), a protest about something that happened half a world away with ZERO relevance in Ireland, (thats the truth, we all know it but not PC to admit it) imagine the amount of people out protesting if they can afford a drink during a recession? The stuff of nightmares for the Government.
Your drink is safe, don't panic.

Both FF and FG fully support this due to the number of publicans in the parties; and they've deluded most other politicians to support it too. It'll pass.

It'll probably get thrown out in the courts due to lack of trying other methods first (like our minimum smokes pricing was); but that'll take months to years

Remember, this measure is 100% about supporting publicans and their unprofitable/dear on-site off-licences; not a jot about public health.

It'll probably also make societal issues worse as dependent drinkers are going to spend the extra cash and leave their families with even less money for food/rent/whatever.

Leroy42 · 03-06-2020 10:51AM

You do you think will protest this? A few quid extra of drink on the oft, as this Covid is showing as all prices have increased, will not make a massive difference and certainly won't have people out marching.

Most alcohol is currently sold in pubs, so price is not really a major issue for most people.

And just like when the pubs increase their prices, people moan and make claims that they won't pay that, but it never make any real difference

da_miser · 03-06-2020 11:08AM

Leroy42 wrote: »

Most alcohol is currently sold in pubs, so price is not really a major issue for most people.

And just like when the pubs increase their prices, people moan and make claims that they won't pay that, but it never make any real difference

With many going to be out of work the pub will not be a option.
When you working and they put 10c on a pint, we all moan about it , but only €1 extra on a 10 pint session, now doubling the price of a can during a recession= RUCTIONS.

Leroy42 · 03-06-2020 11:13AM

But if you are used to going to the pub, you are used to paying €5+ for pint. Paying €2 for a can is still a significant saving.

Did any pubs drops there prices at the last recession? Not many if any. They know what drink is fairly immune to price increases (without limits).

It wasn't eve an issue at the last GE. SF are in favour of it yet saw their vote go up. The only, political, conclusion, is that it isn't really a issue with the public.

L1011 · 03-06-2020 11:26AM

Leroy42 wrote: »

You do you think will protest this? A few quid extra of drink on the oft, as this Covid is showing as all prices have increased, will not make a massive difference and certainly won't have people out marching.

Most alcohol is currently sold in pubs, so price is not really a major issue for most people.

And just like when the pubs increase their prices, people moan and make claims that they won't pay that, but it never make any real difference

Its a lot more than an 'extra few quid' if your primary off-sales purchases were slabs

Also, all premium products WILL put their prices up to maintain premium position. You can't claim a premium position when you're now the same price as Pratskzy.

And the bulk of the extra costs goes to the retailer - its not a tax.

Leroy42 wrote: »

Did any pubs drops there prices at the last recession? Not many if any.

A large proportion of the LVA did a 50c/pint drop across the board and were told to reverse it as it counted as cartel action.

Leroy42 · 03-06-2020 11:28AM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

That's probably down to the fact it's being portrayed as a public health measure rather than what it really is.

Totally agree, but doesn't change the fact that I honestly don't see people doing anything about this.

Myself, I will be making a conscious decision to go to the pub even less than I do now because I see this as nothing other than a market protection racket.

If everyone stopped going to the pub (when they are actually open as opposed to now!) then the publicans would be forced to act. Sure the price in the Offy goes up, but as a direct result of the vitners, so take it out on them. Buy the beer in the offy, and refuse to pay the prices in the pub to show that we won't accept this.

But we all know that will never happen. People simply cannot live without the pub.

Thelonious Monk · 03-06-2020 12:52PM

L1011 wrote: »

Both FF and FG fully support this due to the number of publicans in the parties; and they've deluded most other politicians to support it too. It'll pass.

It'll probably get thrown out in the courts due to lack of trying other methods first (like our minimum smokes pricing was); but that'll take months to years

Remember, this measure is 100% about supporting publicans and their unprofitable/dear on-site off-licences; not a jot about public health.

It'll probably also make societal issues worse as dependent drinkers are going to spend the extra cash and leave their families with even less money for food/rent/whatever.

Yes sure isn't supporting the local pubs through whatever means in the FG manifesto. What I find worst about this is that I don't think one TD objected to the legislation. Who are they actually representing??

CrankyHaus · 03-06-2020 01:26PM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Who are they actually representing??

The publicans' economic interest dovetails nicely with the paternalistic instincts within the Irish elite (including some doctors), who can tell each other that this is "for their own good", objective evidence be damned. They won't be affected by the price increases anyway, so what do they care if a working man can't enjoy a few drinks with friends.

This paternalistic instinct, that normal people "don't know what's good for them", never really went away as Ireland liberalised. It just transferred from doctrinaire Catholicism to nanny-statism.

Potential-Monke · 04-06-2020 12:11AM

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

I suspect you were dealing with arseholes who happened to be drinkers, rather than non-arsehole drinkers who the drink somehow turned into arseholes.

:rolleyes: and then you go on to say how you liked St. Etienne from Aldi. A true connoisseur of the grain and the grape...

No, normal, lovely people change if enough drink is taken. I've dealt with all sorts. Yes, maybe half of them were arseholes who like to drink, but the other half were made up of normal people, or even really nice people, who change when they drink. It's easy to distinguish them, as they're the only ones who apologise the following morning once sober. The arseholes continue to be arseholey, threaten you, etc. Few months later you get a letter from GSOC saying the complaint was not upheld, and you try and match it back to the arsehole.

And sorry we don't share our tastes. I've always found people who look down upon those who drink cheaper drink the same kind of arseholes who look down on others for not wearing designer labels. Not saying you are one, but there's no need for elitism when it comes to drink. Looking back, it wasn't nice, it was just the most palatable pish available, and definitely better than some craft shyte with bellends talking about the hint of x fruit and an aftertaste of elitism. We fool ourselves into thinking a certain poison is palatable. I preferred St. Etienne as it was the only one I could drink without feeling full.

Wine people are the worst. All wine tastes shyte (imo) and people trying to tell me otherwise are deluded (again, imo).

the_syco · 04-06-2020 12:42AM

Potential-Monke wrote: »

I've always found people who look down upon those who drink cheaper drink the same kind of arseholes who look down on others for not wearing designer labels.

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Wine people are the worst. All wine tastes shyte (imo) and people trying to tell me otherwise are deluded (again, imo).

I find these parts humorous.

Potential-Monke wrote: »

stopped drinking and become a stoner. Far better life because of it. Can't really see the draw of it any more. And I've finally come to realise that I've been lying to myself for years thinking that drink tastes nice. It doesn't. We just fool ourselves into finding the one we find most palatable and begin to think it's nice. Again, just my opinion (craft beer is mank).

Ah, so you're a born-again christain sober person? The worst type :pac:

Potential-Monke wrote: »

I spent 9 years as a Garda, and the vast majority of incidents were drink related.

Confirmational bias, tbh.

Potential-Monke · 04-06-2020 01:22AM

the_syco wrote: »

Ah, so you're a born-again christain sober person? The worst type :pac:

No no, I'll still have a drink if it's warranted, ie: wedding, but I don't go to many of them anymore anyway.

And confirmation bias? I would have thought experience of it firsthand tbh!

Hotblack Desiato · 04-06-2020 02:54AM

Potential-Monke wrote: »

It's easy to distinguish them, as they're the only ones who apologise the following morning once sober.

Just because they have regrets doesn't mean they're not still an arsehole. In vino veritas as the saying goes. The urge to inflict physical violence on others doesn't come out of nowhere. (I shouldn't have to point out it's not a get-out in court, either.)

And sorry we don't share our tastes.

That's not the point. The point is you're slagging off people who drink one sort of thing and like it, because of your frankly completely uninformed opinion that all alcohol tastes bad just because the one you drank tasted bad.

Not saying you are one, but there's no need for elitism when it comes to drink.

But reverse elitism about "craft beer tossers" is ok?

We fool ourselves into thinking a certain poison is palatable.

A lot of drinks are far more than 'palatable' and to claim otherwise is quite frankly rubbish.

Wine people are the worst. All wine tastes shyte (imo) and people trying to tell me otherwise are deluded (again, imo).

Just because you don't like it doesn't give you the right to call people deluded.

Potential-Monke · 04-06-2020 04:47AM

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Just because they have regrets doesn't mean they're not still an arsehole. In vino veritas as the saying goes. The urge to inflict physical violence on others doesn't come out of nowhere. (I shouldn't have to point out it's not a get-out in court, either.)

Ok. I'll just stick with my on the job experience, which states otherwise.

That's not the point. The point is you're slagging off people who drink one sort of thing and like it, because of your frankly completely uninformed opinion that all alcohol tastes bad just because the one you drank tasted bad.

The one. I've only ever tasted one drink. Yes. And watch most people on their first drink of the night. Most (not all) give away a very small tell that their mouth hasn't adjusted to the poison they're putting into it. It's small, but it's there.

But reverse elitism about "craft beer tossers" is ok?

No, not reverse elitism. Hipster bashing. Subtle difference. Funny, when I Ctrl+F, the only instance of the 'craft beer tossers' comes to your post. Well, and mine now too that I've posted it. So, your words.

A lot of drinks are far more than 'palatable' and to claim otherwise is quite frankly rubbish.

K. In your opinion.

Just because you don't like it doesn't give you the right to call people deluded.

They're deluded if they think they can convince me wine is nice. Not deluded because they drink it.

But, none of this has anything to do with the thread, so on we move.

Leroy42 · 15-06-2020 03:05PM

MAP is a commitment in the proposed programme for government signed off by the party leaders today.

Quantum Erasure · 15-06-2020 07:18PM

****in greens...

elperello · 15-06-2020 08:11PM

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

****in greens...

By all means if it makes you feel better.

However the truth is that MUP went through the Dail supported by all parties.

In the Senate the only voice raised against it was Prof.Sean Barrett of Trinity. Wearing his economist hat he correctly pointed out the madness of granting an extra profit to the drinks industry.

Reputable Rog · 15-06-2020 08:26PM

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

****in greens...

Doesn’t matter who’s in government, all the tossers are in favour of it.

Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

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