George Floyd dies after police knelt on his neck (MOD NOTE IN POST #1)

Overheal · 13-06-2020 09:43PM

Overheal wrote: »

What about curfew violations? Sitting in the front of a bus? Drinking at the wrong fountain?

You’ve said in this thread you are absolutely against breaking the law but where do you draw the line?

I suppose it’s easier to put me on ignore than answer these utterly reasonable questions about your stated position? Your silence speaks its own volumes.

Luxxis · 13-06-2020 09:43PM

Overheal wrote: »

If blacks and whites commit the same offenses at the same rates they should have the same experience in the system.

One of the highlighted problems have been drugs. Crack, favored by blacks, had for the longest time mandatory minimum sentences without parole. Cocaine, much much less so, and favored by affluent whites. A case of finding a dog whistle way of criminalizing one caste of people differently from another. This was the whole gag of demonizing marijhuana because those ‘lazy mexicanos’ smoke it while they steal your job and support communism etc Marijuana is used at the same rate regardless of race but blacks are convicted more often and face higher sentences in side by side comparisons of identical offenders white and black.

Strange how when crack was an epidemic problem for blacks it was vilified and criminalized; when whites realized much more recently that they are experiencing an opioid crisis, it’s been greeted with understanding and kid gloves, support programs and prosecuting the sources of the drug not the user etc. not rounding up the addicts and getting them off the street like we saw with crack cocaine who were jailed without parole.

Even up until a few decades ago, blacks couldn’t sit on a jury, and blacks were tried by all white panels. Blacks couldn’t be attorneys. Blacks couldn’t be judges. You certainly didn’t see black lawmakers either. So over time crime statistics stacked against blacks and minorities. It certainly did not help that blacks had fleeting representation in the news media, nevermind media at large, where they were depicted with negative connotations and racial stereotypes.

And even now that you have blacks in the profession and in civil service as lawmakers and what else, something around 1 in 13 of blacks already don’t have the right to vote because of prior convictions for, you guessed it, drug use and all else. Compare to 1 in 56 of all other demographics losing their right to vote. This is a direct problem in electing Sheriff's, mayors, officials, lawmakers etc. who are more representative of the communities they serve and beholden to the communities they serve. No politician has to cater to the civil rights of a felon that can’t vote for them, or a caste of people in the community that cannot.

Fake news,

Crack was cheaper, easier to produce and easier to distributed. In fact a lot of the pressure for the harsher sentencing came from black leaders as they saw a "crack epidemic" in their neighborhoods. While later the laws were changed to more even sentencing, Crack still carries a heavier sentence. (That was OBAMA by the way in 2010) So it was a very complex subject and to simply put it "racism" ignores the reality of it.

Good ref here https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/crack-vrs-powder-cocaine-one-drug-two-penalties.htm

Also In 1868, with Amendment XIV, the Constitution had finally given black men full citizenship and promised them equal protection under the law. Blacks voted, won elected office, and served on juries. Alabama being the anomaly.

MeMen2_MoRi_ · 13-06-2020 09:48PM

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

if you are referring to other members being the ones who argued against it, then it must be by people like overheal who is on my ignore list but seems intent on trying to illicit a response.

On the topic of hilary clinton, it shows how unpopular and unlikable she is when people would rather have trump than her as president.
I disliked both also.

The person I'm speaking of would have opinions like yours, to which disagree, I think they have a bit more black white stance, I could be wrong I hold my hands up if that's the case.

Trump/Hillary.. I view it as what I know now.. as internal policies versus external policies.. I agree with some of trump's external policies were as if it was Hillary I would of been totally against. Then it's a vice versa situation with internal policies. That how the dice rolls.

MeMen2_MoRi_ · 13-06-2020 09:52PM

Luxxis wrote: »

Fake news,

Crack was cheaper, easier to produce and easier to distributed. In fact a lot of the pressure for the harsher sentencing came from black leaders as they saw a "crack epidemic" in their neighborhoods. While later the laws were changed to more even sentencing, Crack still carries a heavier sentence. (That was OBAMA by the way in 2010) So it was a very complex subject and to simply put it "racism" ignores the reality of it.

Good ref here https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/crack-vrs-powder-cocaine-one-drug-two-penalties.htm

Also In 1868, with Amendment XIV, the Constitution had finally given black men full citizenship and promised them equal protection under the law. Blacks voted, won elected office, and served on juries. Alabama being the anomaly.

What was the civil rights movement about in the ninteen sixties about?

Edit, pass by this!

titan18 · 13-06-2020 09:59PM

Overheal wrote: »

Internment affected all Japanese Americans and they were all given back their civil rights after the war.

There was never a period where the police systemically arrested the Asian American patriarchy, for example. Though in the expansion era lots of Asian migrants were converted into cheap chain gang labor for building the railroads. By and large though the story of Asian Americans is starkly different from that of black chattel slaves.

It’s wrong to say there isn’t/wasn’t ghettoization of asians though, this is how we get Chinatown in NYC and Korea town in LA.

Never been to LA, but been to New York and I wouldn't have felt unsafe in Chinatown. I probably would feel unsafe in certain neighbourhoods of Harlem though even though it has improved.

Asians were treated poorly though was my point and rose above though through strong family structures and a lot of investment in their own education. In general, that doesn't seem the same amongst the black community. It does seem there's a higher percentage of Asians who rose above their historical situation than African Americans.

MeMen2_MoRi_ · 13-06-2020 10:04PM

Google Sen. Huffman, washing hands..

Laughable bullsh!t

MeMen2_MoRi_ · 13-06-2020 10:06PM

The dinosaurs that still infect politics is fcuking nuts, young people need to vote!

Overheal · 13-06-2020 10:06PM

Luxxis wrote: »

Fake news,

Crack was cheaper, easier to produce and easier to distributed. In fact a lot of the pressure for the harsher sentencing came from black leaders as they saw a "crack epidemic" in their neighborhoods. While later the laws were changed to more even sentencing, Crack still carries a heavier sentence. (That was OBAMA by the way in 2010) So it was a very complex subject and to simply put it "racism" ignores the reality of it.

Good ref here https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/crack-vrs-powder-cocaine-one-drug-two-penalties.htm

Also In 1868, with Amendment XIV, the Constitution had finally given black men full citizenship and promised them equal protection under the law. Blacks voted, won elected office, and served on juries. Alabama being the anomaly.

Sorry I should not have sweepingly said black jurors didn’t exist before the the voting rights act. But it had been a systemic problem, was also a problem in the Rodney King case when they went to change of venue.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_discrimination_in_jury_selection

Luxxis · 13-06-2020 10:06PM

Overheal wrote: »

Sorry I should not have sweepingly said black jurors didn’t exist before the the voting rights act. But it had been a systemic problem, was also a problem in the Rodney King case when they went to change of venue.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_discrimination_in_jury_selection

Fair enough

briany · 13-06-2020 10:17PM

"Defund the police" has got to be one of the most self-defeating messages to come out of this whole thing. The people advocating that must know that it's so easy for the media to paint that as calling for a state of utter lawlessness. If they can't see that, then they really are living in quite a bubble.

But then they go, "Oh, no, what we mean is to cut the budget and encourage the de-militarisation of the police force, and rethink approaches to policing." Grand, then what you really mean is 'Reform the police', and that's what should have been the leading hashtag.

2u2me · 13-06-2020 10:17PM

MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »

The dinosaurs that still infect politics is fcuking nuts, young people need to vote!

You need to stop listening to AOC.

Overheal · 13-06-2020 10:18PM

Folks greatly exaggerate how many people listen to AOC in earnest.

2u2me · 13-06-2020 10:19PM

Overheal wrote: »

Folks greatly exaggerate how many people listen to AOC in earnest.

That's basically her tag line. (Above from memen2)

Overheal · 13-06-2020 10:20PM

2u2me wrote: »

That's basically her tag line. (Above from memen2)

Well young people needing to vote is a perennial problem that is a lot older than she is.

Silentcorner · 13-06-2020 10:23PM

Well it turns out Abolish the police means just that.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2020/06/12/minneapolis-city-council-unanimously-votes-to-replace-police-with-community-led-model/#296f1beb71a5

Expect a surge in insurance premiums followed by a massive commercial exit, surge in unemployment...the democrats are playing with fire!!!

MeMen2_MoRi_ · 13-06-2020 10:25PM

2u2me wrote: »

You need to stop listening to AOC.

I'd rather listen to someone relevant then a dinosaur.

Don't forget to was your hands boy!

2u2me · 13-06-2020 10:29PM

Overheal wrote: »

Well young people needing to vote is a perennial problem that is a lot older than she is.

That's not my problem with that statement. It's that old people are dinosaurs(that infect politics).

MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »

I'd rather listen to someone relevant then a dinosaur.

Was the 75 year old man that was pushed on the street a dinosaur?

MeMen2_MoRi_ · 13-06-2020 10:34PM

2u2me wrote: »

That's not my problem with that statement. It's that old people are dinosaurs(that infect politics).

Was the 75 year old man that was pushed on the street a dinosaur?

A dinosaur yes, speaking of relevant issues good on him.. you as you proclaim to be of a higher thinking, know exactly what the reference was to, but here you are playing the stupid card!

MeMen2_MoRi_ · 13-06-2020 10:47PM

It's a funny thing with threads, the more the person posts, their true colours shine through.

Mealy-mouthed words "I'm not racist" the more you post they say so much more then you understand.

Overheal · 13-06-2020 10:52PM

Silentcorner wrote: »

Well it turns out Abolish the police means just that.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2020/06/12/minneapolis-city-council-unanimously-votes-to-replace-police-with-community-led-model/#296f1beb71a5

Expect a surge in insurance premiums followed by a massive commercial exit, surge in unemployment...the democrats are playing with fire!!!

Did you bother to read beyond the headline? I did and it looks like a lot of positives.

Overheal · 13-06-2020 10:56PM

Erika Shields resigns from Atlanta PD Chief as another tragic death of a black man at the barrel of an Atlanta PD weapon goes viral

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/06/13/atlanta-shooting-police/

MeMen2_MoRi_ · 13-06-2020 10:59PM

Overheal wrote: »

Erika Shields resigns from Atlanta PD Chief as another tragic death of a black man at the barrel of an Atlanta PD weapon goes viral

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/06/13/atlanta-shooting-police/

Any chance you can post a C&P.. your posts from them links always behind a paywall.

2u2me · 13-06-2020 10:59PM

MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »

It's a funny thing with threads, the more the person posts, their true colours shine through.

Mealy-mouthed words "I'm not racist" the more you post they say so much more then you understand.

If you're going to call someone a racist at least have the conviction to do it instead of this under-handed whispering accusations sh1te.

mynamejeff · 13-06-2020 11:00PM

Overheal wrote: »

Did you bother to read beyond the headline? I did and it looks like a lot of positives.

no you didn't , or if you did you didn't understand it ,

by the way did you see that it was written by the sports columnist …..

MeMen2_MoRi_ · 13-06-2020 11:03PM

2u2me wrote: »

If you're going to call someone a racist at least have the conviction to do it.

Why?

When they can't do it themselves.. man the fcuk up, do it themselves.. I have my own suspensions yes, if I was to call them out I'd be off this thread asap.

2u2me · 13-06-2020 11:05PM

MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »

Why?

When they can't do it themselves.. man the fcuk up, do it themselves.. I have my own suspensions yes, if I was to call them out I'd be off this thread asap.

Call someone a racist and cite proof, the truth is always a valid defence.

It's accusations that are baseless and without merit that deserve punishment just like you're making.

Overheal · 13-06-2020 11:05PM

For folks who have affirmed in their mind etc. that the system is not racist or do not want to hear about how or not it is: what now?

Is the current model sustainable? Regardless of race?

#1: Police should protect and serve. Blue should be the color of de-escalation of any given situation. Can we all agree on this? If you want to escalate a situation: call the military.

Do we all agree prisons in the United States in particular, are for-profit? Is this a model, limit to infinity, That is going to result in more prisoners and criminalization of non violent transgressions? Or is it a model that will lead of a near zero prison population? Does this system of criminal justice fairly give individuals, families and communities the opportunity to rehabilitate and regrow themselves?

Imho based on all the information I’ve seen you will never have a zero population but the explosion of 2+ million prisoners is obscene. As an engineer in the most abstract terms it suggests this is a system that will continue to grow in excess of the public safety justifications.

Overheal · 13-06-2020 11:08PM

mynamejeff wrote: »

no you didn't , or if you did you didn't understand it ,

by the way did you see that it was written by the sports columnist …..

What didn’t I understand?

MeMen2_MoRi_ · 13-06-2020 11:08PM

2u2me wrote: »

Call someone a racist and cite proof, the truth is always a valid defence.

It's accusations that are baseless and without merit that deserve punishment just like you're making.

If we were going on stats based on this thread, it's racists that have been kicked!!

Let's go with them stats!

mynamejeff · 13-06-2020 11:12PM

Overheal wrote: »

What didn’t I understand?

going on the post two above this one I don't believe you understand much of the situation you have spent many many days now posting about

George Floyd dies after police knelt on his neck (MOD NOTE IN POST #1)

Comments