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Cycling on paths and other cycling issues (updated title)

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Comments

  • #842
    07Lapierre
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,403 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    Chiparus wrote: »
    Road tax ( full rate-) payers only you mean.

    Eh yeah...as long as I get to drive on MY road uninterrupted! After all, I've paid in full goddamnit! :)


  • #843
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,553 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    SeanW wrote: »
    It has nothing to do with motor ownership. If a motor vehicle is not on the road, it is not liable for "motor" tax. You pay to use the roads with a motor vehicle, that's why people call it road tax.
    curious, i own five vehicles which i use on the road and they are not liable for 'road' tax. i do own another vehicle which i use on the road which is liable for the tax, and i can't just think of what makes that different from the other vehicles, which would lead me to believe that the term 'motor' tax is the more apt one.


  • #844
    SeanW
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,410 ✭✭✭SeanW


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    curious, i own five vehicles which i use on the road and they are not liable for 'road' tax. i do own another vehicle which i use on the road which is liable for the tax, and i can't just think of what makes that different from the other vehicles, which would lead me to believe that the term 'motor' tax is the more apt one.
    I'm guessing the other four are in an exempt category.
    07Lapierre wrote: »
    that's correct. Red lights mean stop, footpaths are for peds only.

    Did you think I didn't know that?
    Most cyclists regard these rules as (at best) suggestions.

    "Motor tax" is the legal name for the tax motorists must pay to put a motor vehicle on the road. But given that it is a road tax, many motorists call it this colloquially.

    Footways AFAIK are the legal term for paths designed solely for the use of pedestrians, but most cyclists treat them as cycle lanes.

    An illuminated red on a set of traffic lights - in theory - instructs all road vehicles to stop and wait, but cyclists treat them (at best) as yield signs.

    My point is, there's a difference between what something is on paper, and what it actually is in practice. Like motor/road tax.

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  • #845
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,553 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    SeanW wrote: »
    I'm guessing the other four are in an exempt category.
    not sure if serious...
    i'll assume not. they are bicycles, so not 'exempt' per se.


  • #846
    Hurrache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,381 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    SeanW wrote: »
    A road usage tax paid by motorists.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_tax

    Technically known as "Motor Tax."

    No, it technically doesn't exist.

    I too often dabble in motoring, (beep beep, get outta my way and all that) and haven't been asked to pay this thing called road tax in order to do so.


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  • #847
    07Lapierre
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,403 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    SeanW wrote: »

    Most cyclists road users regard these rules as (at best) suggestions.

    "Motor tax" is the legal name for the tax motorists must pay to put a motor vehicle on the road.

    Footways AFAIK are the legal term for paths designed solely for the use of pedestrians, but some cyclists treat them as cycle lanes.

    An illuminated red on a set of traffic lights instructs all road users to stop.

    My point is, the total lack of enforcement by the Gardai has resulted in almost all road users ignoring the ROTR.

    FYP


  • #848
    SeanW
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,410 ✭✭✭SeanW


    Hurrache wrote: »
    No, it technically doesn't exist.

    I too often dabble in motoring, (beep beep, get outta my way and all that) and haven't been asked to pay this thing called road tax in order to do so.
    So if your car is going to be off the road, you do not file a SORD? (Statutory Off Road Declaration).

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  • #849
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,553 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    from a mail i got just last week, some random pullquotes

    Motor Tax reminder for your SKODA OCTAVIA
    Motor Tax / Cáin Mótar
    Dear MR RANDOM PLACEHOLDER,This is your motor tax reminder
    Motor tax for your BLACK SKODA OCTAVIA expires on the last day of June 2020
    If you have sold the vehicle, you can check the progress of the transaction on the motor tax web site, www.motortax.ie
    The pin for online renewal on the Motor Tax Website is 123456
    f you have a query regarding our service, please email our customer support team at motortax@dttas.ie. This is our only customer support email address. Alternatively you can access our frequently asked questions on www.motortax.ie.

    etc. etc.
    there are 13 references to it being motor tax. the only mention of the word 'road' is in relation to declaring it off the road.
    they seem fairly insistent that it's motor tax.


  • #850
    Chiparus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,292 ✭✭✭Chiparus


    07Lapierre wrote: »
    Eh yeah...as long as I get to drive on MY road uninterrupted! After all, I've paid in full goddamnit! :)

    Imagine if you paid the top rate €2350 you could make everyone get out of your way ...Beep..Beep:D


  • #851
    meeeeh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    The smug attitude in this thread explains a lot why the cycling facilities are where they are in this country. I bet the condescending preaching about the difference between road or motor tax won you many supporters.

    And before I get accused of being cyclist hater, the only place where cyclists annoy me is Boards.


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  • #852
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,553 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    meeeeh wrote: »
    The smug attitude in this thread explains a lot why the cycling facilities are where they are in this country.
    weird. a huge number of motorists are dangerous assholes, yet the word used recently in government formation talks recently about (some incredibly expensive) planned road projects is that they are 'sacrosanct'.
    but a few obstreperous cyclists are enough to prevent the development of decent cyclinf facilities.

    cyclists have way more power than we realise.


  • #853
    meeeeh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    weird. a huge number of motorists are dangerous assholes, yet the word used recently in government formation talks recently about (some incredibly expensive) planned road projects is that they are 'sacrosanct'.
    but a few obstreperous cyclists are enough to prevent the development of decent cyclinf facilities.

    cyclists have way more power than we realise.

    One of those sacrosanct road projects would mean that my kids can cycle to school when the road is built. They can't now. But yeah feel free to continue with condescending bs if you feel it will get you results.


  • #854
    SeanW
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,410 ✭✭✭SeanW


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    from a mail i got just last week, some random pullquotes

    Motor Tax reminder for your SKODA OCTAVIA
    Motor Tax / Cáin Mótar
    Dear MR RANDOM PLACEHOLDER,This is your motor tax reminder
    Motor tax for your BLACK SKODA OCTAVIA expires on the last day of June 2020
    If you have sold the vehicle, you can check the progress of the transaction on the motor tax web site, www.motortax.ie
    The pin for online renewal on the Motor Tax Website is 123456
    f you have a query regarding our service, please email our customer support team at motortax@dttas.ie. This is our only customer support email address. Alternatively you can access our frequently asked questions on www.motortax.ie.

    etc. etc.
    there are 13 references to it being motor tax. the only mention of the word 'road' is in relation to declaring it off the road.
    they seem fairly insistent that it's motor tax.
    Correct. You pay tax on your car if, and then because, it is on the road. Ergo, it's a road tax.

    https://u24.gov.ua/
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    Help us in helping Ukraine.



  • #855
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,553 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i pay property tax on my house, which is built on soil, ergo it is a soil tax.


  • #856
    SeanW
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,410 ✭✭✭SeanW


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    i pay property tax on my house, which is built on soil, ergo it is a soil tax.
    If you didn't have the house, you'd presumably pay a lot less property tax - if you'd even pay any - on just the site.

    Some jurisdictions have a Land value tax or Site valuation tax. Ireland does not. Your property tax is on the combined value of the land and building.

    And your car is taxed on road usage.

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    Help us in helping Ukraine.



  • #857
    07Lapierre
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,403 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    SeanW wrote: »
    Correct. You pay tax on your car if, and then because, it is on the road. Ergo, it's a road tax.

    You don't have to pay Motor tax...you choose to pay it. It's not like the bleedin TV license, which according to the to ad is "a fact of life when living in Ireland" Grrrrr!


  • #858
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,553 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i pay motor tax on my motor because it is mine.
    i pay property tax on my property because it is mine.
    i pay income tax on my income because it is mine.
    i do not own the road, therefore i do not pay road tax.

    you know where cyclists are coming from on this though; you understand the objection.
    'i pay road tax' is a blunt instrument some/many motorists use to try to claim a greater right to use the road than cyclists. it's a tired, inaccurate argument, and just results in eyerolling from cyclists (many of whom are also paying motor tax anyway)


  • #859
    07Lapierre
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,403 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    Chiparus wrote: »
    Imagine if you paid the top rate €2350 you could make everyone get out of your way ...Beep..Beep:D

    I find most of those people pass me on the M50! Not that their speeding you understand! No, because I move over and allow them pass! ;)


  • #860
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,553 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    SeanW wrote: »
    And your car is taxed on road usage.
    but i can use the road without using my car?
    confused now. am i not paying a tax i should be?


  • #861
    the_syco
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,316 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    There are cycle paths. I do cycle on them. Otherwise, I cycle on the road.

    If anyone is cycling, then can go around me if I'm walking on the foothpath.

    If I'm walking across the road as the traffic light man is green, I'll walk across the road, and look at the cyclist as he suddenly has to stop; I'm finding more cyclists are breaking the red light than usual these days.


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  • #862
    SeanW
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,410 ✭✭✭SeanW


    07Lapierre wrote: »
    You don't have to pay Motor tax...you choose to pay it. It's not like the bleedin TV license, which according to the to ad is "a fact of life when living in Ireland" Grrrrr!
    Great, I'll let it expire and tell that to the guards when they stop me in my car ... NOT!
    magicbastarder wrote: »
    i pay motor tax on my motor because it is mine.
    So, if your car is going to be off the road, you continue to pay the tax and don't file an SORD form?
    i pay property tax on my property because it is mine.
    i pay income tax on my income because it is mine.
    Correct.
    i do not own the road, therefore i do not pay road tax.
    No, but you do pay to use the roads in your car. Ergo, you pay the Irish form of road tax.
    you know where cyclists are coming from on this though; you understand the objection.
    I understand there's a bunch of self-important, sanctimonious, wannabe censors, who are trying to police language 1984 style. I don't like that.

    https://u24.gov.ua/
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    Help us in helping Ukraine.



  • #863
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 42,982 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Is it just me that thinks this thread now should be shot in the face?


  • #864
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,553 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    SeanW wrote: »
    I understand there's a bunch of self-important, sanctimonious, wannabe censors, who are trying to police language 1984 style. I don't like that.
    i'd agree with you Seth, yeah.


  • #865
    07Lapierre
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,403 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    SeanW wrote: »

    I understand there's a bunch of self-important, sanctimonious, wannabe censors, who are trying to police language 1984 style. I don't like that.

    Tough.


  • #866
    SeanW
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,410 ✭✭✭SeanW


    07Lapierre wrote: »
    Tough.
    And I'm going to keep calling the tax I pay on road usage "road tax" and I'm going to keep calling accidental collisions "accidents" and if you don't like it, you take a long walk off a short pier.

    "Correct" me all you want.

    https://u24.gov.ua/
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    Help us in helping Ukraine.



  • #867
    07Lapierre
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,403 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    SeanW wrote: »
    And I'm going to keep calling the tax I pay on road usage "road tax" and I'm going to keep calling accidental collisions "accidents" and if you don't like it, you take a long walk off a short pier.

    "Correct" me all you want.

    Good for you. Accidents do happen..I just think we can do a lot to prevent them. Please keep paying your taxes.... helps keep me in a job!


  • #868
    Chiparus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,292 ✭✭✭Chiparus


    07Lapierre wrote: »
    Good for you. Accidents do happen..I just think we can do a lot to prevent them. Please keep paying your taxes.... helps keep me in a job!

    Im off to pay the cycle path tax.


  • #869
    Hurrache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,381 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    SeanW wrote: »
    Correct. You pay tax on your car if, and then because, it is on the road. Ergo, it's a road tax.

    I paid vat on some items earlier. Sure all it did was make them more expensive, didn't add any value for me at all.


  • #870
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,553 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Chiparus wrote: »
    Im off to pay the cycle path tax.
    my income is paid to me as money, so i'm calling it a money tax, not income tax.


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  • #871
    meeeeh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    Hurrache wrote: »
    I paid vat on some items earlier. Sure all it did was make them more expensive, didn't add any value for me at all.

    Value added tax means that producer only pays tax on value they added. End customer doesn't ad any value so they cannot claim tax back. Why would you buy something that adds no value to you btw? So you can dump it among other things people buy just because they can.


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