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George Floyd dies after police knelt on his neck (MOD NOTE IN POST #1)

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Comments

  • #9122
    MeMen2_MoRi_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,982 ✭✭✭MeMen2_MoRi_


    walshb wrote: »
    They are there to do their jobs, which is to restore law and order, not kneel with those who are disrespecting law and order. They are to be above this. It is not right that they act this way during their policing duties. It's absurd. Whatever they feel in private is their business.

    I'd view it as another case of potentially good cops being sh!t on because they haven't got the backs of their boys in blue.
    I've seen videos of cops dancing/dance offs with protesters, looking at things through the lense of law and order is very narrow.
    Who is in the bracket of disrespecting law and order in your opinion?


  • #9123
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,953 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    Personally I think no matter what the protest is police should not take part while they are working ,

    In there off time if they want to peacefully protest then fine but on the job they should remain impartial and do what they are paid to do ,

    What if some kneel and some don't it creates a look of division with in the force,

    Just do your job and on your off time you can air your social or political views


  • #9124
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,953 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    Yes, because God forbid any police officer has the temerity to think that showing solidarity with the community they are policing is any way to maintain law and order. History has shown that the only effective way to police a community is oppression - works 100% of the time so it does. Oh wait...

    Can there not be middle ground ?
    Just because the police stand does not mean they oppose the protest or are against it ,It just means there doing there job ,,


  • #9125
    Christy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,106 ✭✭✭Christy42


    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    Can there not be middle ground ?
    Just because the police stand does not mean they oppose the protest or are against it ,It just means there doing there job ,,

    Sure but what if a police officer wants to go the extra mile and show support. Should the police union be banning that. How does it disrespect the uniform which was the phrasing used?


  • #9126
    MeMen2_MoRi_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,982 ✭✭✭MeMen2_MoRi_


    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    Can there not be middle ground ?
    Just because the police stand does not mean they oppose the protest or are against it ,It just means there doing there job ,,

    I believe the middle ground in this is if cops want to take a kneel with protesters they should have that choice and not be facing sanctions either from protesters or the police union.


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  • #9127
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,953 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    Christy42 wrote: »
    Sure but what if a police officer wants to go the extra mile and show support. Should the police union be banning that. How does it disrespect the uniform which was the phrasing used?

    Firstly I never said it agree with the term disrespecting the uniform ?
    I think that's grand standing but I think Police should be impartial while on duty ,
    I don't think they should take side no matter what the protest is while on duty ,

    If he wants to go the extra mile then do so while off Duty ,


  • #9128
    walshb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,097 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Some of you haven't a clue.....

    It's not the wild west.....protocols, rules, procedures, standards have to be set and adhered to

    They are the cops.....they are not there to kneel and mix and show any support

    They are there to do a job; probably D most important job in all of society.

    You cannot have a society where the police force can pick and chose how to do their job. They are supposed to be above the politics feel here.

    And what about large sections of society that don't agree with the protests and marches? Shouldn't the cops also support this section?

    Or what about the cops that don't agree with the protesting?....the cops need to be all together, as one. Working together for ALL people....working, not getting involved in this nonsense kneeling.

    The cops are for ALL the people, hence they need to stfu and do their job for all of the people...that job is not to be mickey mouse kneeling with protesters.


  • #9129
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,953 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »
    I believe the middle ground in this is if cops want to take a kneel with protesters they should have that choice and not be facing sanctions either from protesters or the police union.

    Yesterday while speaking about the incident with the 75 year old you where banging on about how the police should have been more professional and follow procedure,

    So would it not be the same with this ? While in uniform leave you political and social views to one side and do you job , When you clock out your free to protest like everyone else,

    Its not disrespecting the uniform its just unprofessional


  • #9130
    MeMen2_MoRi_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,982 ✭✭✭MeMen2_MoRi_


    Choice... Arrest or Push a protester who walked up to them, obstructed them in their line of work..


  • #9131
    Christy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,106 ✭✭✭Christy42


    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    Firstly I never said it agree with the term disrespecting the uniform ?
    I think that's grand standing but I think Police should be impartial while on duty ,
    I don't think they should take side no matter what the protest is while on duty ,

    If he wants to go the extra mile then do so while off Duty ,

    Well disrespecting the unifrom is the only reason it is being banned. Should we fire that Chicago union boss who has fairly obviously taken a side while on duty?


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  • #9132
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,953 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    walshb wrote: »
    Some of you haven't a clue.....

    It's not the wild west.....protocols, rules, procedures, standards have to be set and adhered to

    They are the cops.....they are not there to kneel and mix and show any support

    They are there to do a job; probably D most important job in all of society.

    You cannot have a society where the police force can pick and chose how to do their job. They are supposed to be above the politics feel here.

    And what about large sections of society that don't agree with the protests and marches? Shouldn't the cops also support this section?

    Or the cops that don't agree....the cops need to be all together, as one. Working together for ALL people....working, not getting involved in this nonsense kneeling.

    The cops are for ALL the people, hence they need to stfu and do their job for all of the people...that job is not to be mickey mouse kneeling with protesters.

    In essence your completely correct,
    Iv a feeling everyone actually agrees but they don't like how your delivering your stance,

    Plus the world in general has this weirdness going on where they think because they disagreed with you on one thing (the 75 year old man incident) they then MUST disagree with everything you say even if it makes sense,

    Its like with Trump because he says some stupid things then every single thing he says must be stupid when in reality that's not the case,


  • #9133
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,953 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    Christy42 wrote: »
    Well disrespecting the unifrom is the only reason it is being banned. Should we fire that Chicago union boss who has fairly obviously taken a side while on duty?

    As I said multiple times I dolt agree with the why ( I think hes grand standing saying that's the reason ) but agree it should be banned,


  • #9134
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,953 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    Yesterday people where banging on about how the police should have been more professional in the 75 yearold incident
    Today the same people want the police to be unprofessional about something else,


  • #9135
    MeMen2_MoRi_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,982 ✭✭✭MeMen2_MoRi_


    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    Yesterday while speaking about the incident with the 75 year old you where banging on about how the police should have been more professional and follow procedure,

    So would it not be the same with this ? While in uniform leave you political and social views to one side and do you job , When you clock out your free to protest like everyone else,

    Its not disrespecting the uniform its just unprofessional

    Now you want the police to act professionally, you defended them to the hilt, but now you want them to be professional.
    You may see this as me picking and choosing, you are also doing the same thing.


  • #9136
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,953 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »
    Now you want the police to act professionally, you defended them to the hilt, but now you want them to be professional.
    You may see this as me picking and choosing, you are also doing the same thing.

    I could say the same to you ?

    The situation was sticky because he had right to assembly but the police also had the right to move him to a safer spot,

    I still think the police man who pushed the old man was giving him a chance to leave, it was unfortunate the he fell over ,

    Again im all for police having the right to protest but just not on the job surely you can see that fair ?


  • #9137
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,953 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    Here something you have to ask yourself ,
    Would you be happy with police protesting on the job for something you DO NOT agree with ?

    Just for the record I agree with the peaceful protest here just not with police on duty joining in ,


  • #9138
    MeMen2_MoRi_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,982 ✭✭✭MeMen2_MoRi_


    Deescalation is a huge tool in the police forces bag, why not use it? It can be used as a tactic in this instance of taking a kneel.. I think it was "a thing" early on in these protests, I don't see it being a big issue going forward. I think it's wrong to have repercussions if you do.
    The knee represents police brutality, I think everyone is against that???


  • #9139
    biko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,060 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Spreading to Miami

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1271389771408060416


  • #9140
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 30,081 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    In essence your completely correct,
    Iv a feeling everyone actually agrees but they don't like how your delivering your stance

    Nah, I don't agree.

    Apparently in your rush to denounce kneeling you have bypassed the fact that it was the head of the police union who stated this and it is in fact him who is making it a political point. It is not someone in any authority position. So presumably you will change your mind and agree that he should keep his mouth shut and let the chain of command agree the best way to police their communities? Seeing as discipline is so important?


  • #9141
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,953 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »
    Deescalation is a huge tool in the police forces bag, why not use it? It can be used as a tactic in this instance of taking a kneel.. I think it was "a thing" early on in these protests, I don't see it being a big issue going forward. I think it's wrong to have repercussions if you do.
    The knee represents police brutality, I think everyone is against that???

    Again I think your opening a can of worms if you let police picks side on protest and social issues as a whole force,

    I understand what your saying and that it can have a good effect but what happens if the police pick a side in something you and the general public don't agree with ,The it could cause mayhem ,

    I just think its best in the long term for police to remain impartial while on duty,


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  • #9142
    biko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,060 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Christy42 wrote: »
    Now we have the police saying they will punish those their own for peaceful protest. What message do people think this screams out to black people in the US?
    They can protest on their own time.
    Uniformed personnel should not show political allegiance to anything.


  • #9143
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,953 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    Nah, I don't agree.

    Apparently in your rush to denounce kneeling you have bypassed the fact that it was the head of the police union who stated this and it is in fact him who is making it a political point. It is not someone in any authority position. So presumably you will change your mind and agree that he should keep his mouth shut and let the chain of command agree the best way to police their communities? Seeing as discipline is so important?

    Iv said multiply time I do not agree with his "WHY"


  • #9144
    MeMen2_MoRi_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,982 ✭✭✭MeMen2_MoRi_


    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    I could say the same to you ?

    The situation was sticky because he had right to assembly but the police also had the right to move him to a safer spot,

    I still think the police man who pushed the old man was giving him a chance to leave, it was unfortunate the he fell over ,

    Again im all for police having the right to protest but just not on the job surely you can see that fair ?

    Obstruction of a police officer carrying out their duty is a crime? You keep repeating the "giving him a chance to move" because he was respecting his right to protest, those rights to protest are removed when they're told to clear the area, there is protocols in place, they give out verbal warnings to clear the area, anyone still there has choosen to forgo their chance to move, and when you walk up them you're obstructing them.

    I forgot, they had the choice to either arrest him or push him. And everyone here has the right to think of nonsense excuses to think of ways to justify the stupidity shown to them on camera by cops yet again.


  • #9145
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 30,081 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    Iv said multiply time I do not agree with his "WHY"

    He shouldn't be saying anything on the matter full stop, it is not his place.

    There is no indication that police officers kneeling are even protesting. It can simply be an act of solidarity and to show that they understand where the protesters are coming from. This can do wonders to foster an environment where it is not us v them. i.e., good, proper policing.


  • #9146
    MeMen2_MoRi_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,982 ✭✭✭MeMen2_MoRi_


    The kneeling represents police brutality?

    When did police brutality become a political "side"?


  • #9147
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,953 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    He shouldn't be saying anything on the matter full stop, it is not his place.

    There is no indication that police officers kneeling are even protesting. It can simply be an act of solidarity and to show that they understand where the protesters are coming from. This can do wonders to foster an environment where it is not us v them. i.e., good, proper policing.

    I never said he should , I never even mentioned him ,

    All I said is I personal don't think Police should kneel on the job ,


  • #9148
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,953 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »
    Obstruction of a police officer carrying out their duty is a crime? You keep repeating the "giving him a chance to move" because he was respecting his right to protest, those rights to protest are removed when they're told to clear the area, there is protocols in place, they give out verbal warnings to clear the area, anyone still there has choosen to forgo their chance to move, and when you walk up them you're obstructing them.

    I forgot, they had the choice to either arrest him or push him. And everyone here has the right to think of nonsense excuses to think of ways to justify the stupidity shown to them on camera by cops yet again.

    100s if not thousands of protesters all over the world have got push from police in the last week or so and no ones bated an eyelid , unfortunately the 75 year old fell over and banged his head,

    It is what it is ,i think it was totally blown out of proportion but you have your view which is fair enough ,

    Its over with so move on with your life ,


  • #9149
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 30,081 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    I never said he should , I never even mentioned him ,

    All I said is I personal don't think Police should kneel on the job ,

    Why?

    The police are not moving out of line popping in among the protesters, kneeling and shouting "defund the police".

    The police in Camden NJ who knelt with protesters were not, themselves, protesting. It was a way of indicating they were listening to and open to the protesters and were not "the enemy". It is good community policing.


  • #9150
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 30,081 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    100s if not thousands of protesters all over the world have got push from police in the last week or so and no ones bated an eyelid , unfortunately the 75 year old fell over and banged his head

    I think you'll find that the police's general behaviour has been the entire point of the protests and their over-aggression and escalating of scenarios has very much been part of the conversation.

    Unsurprisingly, particularly egregious scenarios are used to highlight the systemic issues.


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  • #9151
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,953 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »
    The kneeling represents police brutality?

    When did police brutality become a political "side"?

    Ok lets me try and make this simple for you and give you an example closer to home ,so you might understand my stance,

    Say during the "repeal the 8th " movement here in Ireland ,

    Would you be happy if Garda on duty in uniform joined the side who where against it and while in uniform joined in with them waving placards and what not ?

    There would be absolute murder , boards and twitter would break , Joe Duffy's ear drums would explode .

    Just because you agree with a movement does not make it right for the Police to join in they should remain impartial while on duty its just being professional ,

    ( for the record I voted to repeal Before you start)


This discussion has been closed.
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