Drugs in Golf

gypsy79 · 11-06-2020 4:44pm #1

We have all heard of hushed up bans etc, mainly for social drugs.

But there is a golfer on tour who made gains in muscle mass that are not believable over Xmas. Just seen him now and he has ballooned even more

These gains are not possible without Mexican supplement as Joe Rogan calls them

How is this happening when golf is now an Olympic sport. The testing must be absolutely rubbish

ThewhiteJesus · 11-06-2020 4:45pm

Who's the golfer you are accusing ?

gypsy79 · 11-06-2020 4:46pm

He is one off the lead!

Rippeditup · 11-06-2020 4:48pm

gypsy79 wrote: »

We have all heard of hushed up bans etc, mainly for social drugs.

But there is a golfer on tour who made gains in muscle mass that are not believable over Xmas. Just seen him now and he has ballooned even more

These gains are not possible without Mexican supplement as Joe Rogan calls them

How is this happening when golf is now an Olympic sport. The testing must be absolutely rubbish

Yes they are... Diet and structured muscle building could deliver this.. He would be tripling his calories using clean macro diet but it is doable and not necessarily steroids

he is young and has the cash to pay for personal trainer and dietitian

gypsy79 · 11-06-2020 4:55pm

Rippeditup wrote: »

Yes they are... Diet and structured muscle building could deliver this.. He would be tripling his calories using clean macro diet but it is doable and not necessarily steroids

he is young and has the cash to pay for personal trainer and dietitian

If you believe that then you would believe anything

0.25kg per week muscle gain is absolute most someone can do without help

He did 25lb gain (12kg) in 6 weeks and is ripped

downthemiddle · 11-06-2020 4:59pm

Dr Anthony Galea is a person of interest when discussing this subject.

gypsy79 · 11-06-2020 5:03pm

He was great in the wire

dan_ep82 · 11-06-2020 6:04pm

Holy **** what an accusation.

At least put together a post showing how you came to the conclusion and how it couldn't be done without drugs. Even link a study showing it can't be done.

gypsy79 · 11-06-2020 7:20pm

Muscle been gained at 0.25kg per week is a well know fact. I dont need to post anything to prove this. Google will tell you this.

Even top bodybuilders who use steroids back in the day struggled with 5-10kg in a year.

Bryson is ****ing massive. He made the difference in roughly 6 weeks. The gains he made are his own claims

Local_Chap · 11-06-2020 7:28pm

gypsy79 wrote: »

Even top bodybuilders who use steroids back in the day struggled with 5-10kg in a year.

It's far easier to put on muscle when starting out compared to body builders who already have a high level of muscle

gypsy79 · 11-06-2020 8:02pm

hence the rates much lower above. Even 10kg in a year with steroid abuse is below 0.25kg per week

0.25kg is considered the max gain rate doing everything perfect

Bryson did 4 times that if only 50% of gain was muscle. Looks more to me!!

If its not worth a question then people are blind!!

slingerz · 11-06-2020 8:24pm

Drugs in golf would be more for beta blockers like snooker to take the edge of nerves/adrenaline off you for consistency I would think than muscle gains

gypsy79 · 11-06-2020 8:28pm

slingerz wrote: »

Drugs in golf would be more for beta blockers like snooker to take the edge of nerves/adrenaline off you for consistency I would think than muscle gains

That was the common perception. The point of this thread/discussion is that I think that might be changing!

Players are now lifting seriously heavy weights. Recovery becomes key

BigChap1759 · 11-06-2020 8:49pm

gypsy79 wrote: »

Muscle been gained at 0.25kg per week is a well know fact. I dont need to post anything to prove this. Google will tell you this.

Even top bodybuilders who use steroids back in the day struggled with 5-10kg in a year.

Bryson is ****ing massive. He made the difference in roughly 6 weeks. The gains he made are his own claims

If you're going to post such outlandish claims at least back them up with some evidence rather than saying you don't need to prove it, directing people to Google or insinuating they are thick for not agreeing with you. :rolleyes:

Bryson's been doing weights since last year...

downthemiddle · 11-06-2020 9:04pm

slingerz wrote: »

Drugs in golf would be more for beta blockers like snooker to take the edge of nerves/adrenaline off you for consistency I would think than muscle gains

There are huge benefits from using growth hormones.

gypsy79 · 11-06-2020 9:43pm

All I asked was has the testing improved

If it has, he should be targetted big time. Probably too late though. The impacts of hgh last for years

I suppose you are one of the sorts thinks Mo Farahs miraculous improvements were down to har work??

Golf is my Game · 11-06-2020 10:37pm

gypsy79 wrote: »

All I asked was has the testing improved

If it has, he should be targetted big time. Probably too late though. The impacts of hgh last for years

I suppose you are one of the sorts thinks Mo Farahs miraculous improvements were down to har work??

(I dont think anyone except Mo who would claim that.)

Could he not just have got normal length sticks like everyone else if we wanted more distance ? Its totally legal.

slingerz · 11-06-2020 10:40pm

downthemiddle wrote: »

There are huge benefits from using growth hormones.

I’m not sure golf is a sport that lends itself to physical superiority. I think agility and flexibility are more important than mass gains

PokeHerKing · 11-06-2020 10:41pm

gypsy79 wrote: »

If you believe that then you would believe anything

0.25kg per week muscle gain is absolute most someone can do without help

He did 25lb gain (12kg) in 6 weeks and is ripped

Far from ripped, he looks more keg than abs to me.

Ceepo · 11-06-2020 11:28pm

slingerz wrote: »

I’m not sure golf is a sport that lends itself to physical superiority. I think agility and flexibility are more important than mass gains

No reason why extra power wouldn't be an advantage either.

"When he wasn’t flying it over trees, DeChambeau settled for flying past competitors. His playing partner Dustin Johnson—who has finished no lower than sixth on tour in driving distance since 2008—averaged 302.7 yards off the tee Thursday ... a mere 40 yards shorter than DeChambeau (345.4 yards, to be exact). DeChambeau picked up two strokes against the field off the tee, best among the morning wave"

"When golf went into its pandemic-induced sabbatical at the Players Championship, DeChambeau had four top fives in seven starts on the year and ranked first on tour in distance and third in strokes gained/off-the-tee. He added over 19 yards (321.3) to his average drive."

Since we last saw him at TPC Sawgrass, the former U.S. Amateur and NCAA champion has doubled-down on his metamorphosis, gaining an extra 20 pounds in the past three months, focusing on speed training to increase ball speed.

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/a-buffed-out-bryson-dechambeau-shoved-colonial-in-a-locker-on-th

The extra weigh is cretainly not hindering him.

gypsy79 · 11-06-2020 11:33pm

Ceepo wrote: »

Since we last saw him at TPC Sawgrass, the former U.S. Amateur and NCAA champion has doubled-down on his metamorphosis, gaining an extra 20 pounds in the past three months, focusing on speed training to increase ball speed.

And he definitely doesnt look fat. That 45 lb documented weight gain in a year

It just doesnt seem feasable while still playing golf without help

In fact it barely seems feasible if he took a year off competition golf

Ceepo · 12-06-2020 8:22am

gypsy79 wrote: »

And he definitely doesnt look fat. That 45 lb documented weight gain in a year

It just doesnt seem feasable while still playing golf without help

In fact it barely seems feasible if he took a year off competition golf

No saying that there is or isn't any peds in Golf, but the drug testing is minimal to non existing. Ireland has a number of worlds class players, in 2017 there was only 1 golfer tested and that was in LPGA..
Up to recently the PGA didn't allow blood to be tested, the only way to test for HGH.
While other sports like athletics and cycling has the spot light put in them(and rightly so) but they do how ever look to be testing and actually banning athletes.
Other sports like Tennis Football and maybe Golf continue to bury their head.

Even Bryson playing partner Dustin was unlucky to have 3 injuries lasting one lasting 3 months and 2 lasting 6 months. It certainly was misfortune to hurt your back on the eve of the Masters.
Almost as unfortunate as a injury prone Spanish tennis player
Edit, I forgot to mention Vejay and the curious case of Deer antler spray.

While I don't think that golf has a ped problem. To believe that it doesn't happen or that there's no benefit to it in golf in nieve.

PARlance · 12-06-2020 9:36am

Dustin's injuries were more recreational than performance enhancing.

sugarman20 · 12-06-2020 9:38am

If he's juicing then he's doing it wrong.

AdamD · 12-06-2020 9:38am

He absolutely does not look ripped

Ceepo · 12-06-2020 9:39am

PARlance wrote: »

Dustin's injuries were more recreational than performance enhancing.

While that many well be the case. The fact remains they were "injuries" and not suspensions,

Ceepo · 12-06-2020 9:43am

AdamD wrote: »

He absolutely does not look ripped

You don't have to be "look ripped"
Peds don't make you look ripped
All you need to do is gain power, Peds can help that by allowing you to recover so you can train harder.

Ceepo · 12-06-2020 9:54am

sugarman20 wrote: »

If he's juicing then he's doing it wrong.

Why?

Mushy · 12-06-2020 10:03am

Didnt recognise him at first, was shocked. He doesn't look ripped, but didnt he have a pop at Brooks after he was undone magazine? Brooks succinctly responded showing his major trophies

spacecoyote · 12-06-2020 10:04am

From what I can gather, CBD seems to be a bigger thing over in the US, with lots of talk of pros using it, including Tiger if I remember correctly. Supposedly that gum hes chewing is not of the mint variety.

Not being used for performance enhancement, more for keeping the mood levelled and stress down

Rippeditup · 12-06-2020 11:14am

gypsy79 wrote: »

If you believe that then you would believe anything

0.25kg per week muscle gain is absolute most someone can do without help

He did 25lb gain (12kg) in 6 weeks and is ripped

I know people who compete in natural bodybuilding and I have competed in power lifting and can tell you now this is possible... he will have a team focusing on him but claiming he is on steroids is a big claim... if he was he would be tested as the changes are large and if he was positive he would lose millions in deals and would be tarnished, why would he do this when already he was close to the top.. he is someone who comes across as obsessive and if this is on his muscle development and power he would invest heavy in all modern ways within the laws of the game...

AdamD · 12-06-2020 11:35am

Ceepo wrote: »

You don't have to be "look ripped"
Peds don't make you look ripped
All you need to do is gain power, Peds can help that by allowing you to recover so you can train harder.

The point is the weight gain is very much possible as its absolutely not all muscle. If he put on that much weight and was actually ripped it would be far more suspect

Ceepo · 12-06-2020 11:36am

Rippeditup wrote: »

I know people who compete in natural bodybuilding and I have competed in power lifting and can tell you now this is possible... he will have a team focusing on him but claiming he is on steroids is a big claim... if he was he would be tested as the changes are large and if he was positive he would lose millions in deals and would be tarnished, why would he do this when already he was close to the top.. he is someone who comes across as obsessive and if this is on his muscle development and power he would invest heavy in all modern ways within the laws of the game...

Tbh I've know idea what is possible when it comes to time frame and weight gain.
And I agree 100% that if he tested positive would be tarnished and stand to loose millions.
But he would have to test positive first. And that's the thing. Someone with the financial clout can obviously pay for the right doctor etc to micro dose and stay under any limits. It happens in other sports. Look at Lance, as he said 1000"s of times "I've never tested positive". There are many other examples of this as well.

Golf is a sport that as you say millions are at stake, and humans are willing to break boundaries both for fame and fortune and as such, you have to be open to the idea that some will cross the line. The vast majority of sports have people who cheat from dog racing and equine to athletics and cycling and even baseball which is usually brushed under the carpet. It would be nieve to think that golfers are some how "above" crossing a line.
Again I'm not saying he or any other golfer is using Peds,

Ceepo · 12-06-2020 11:41am

AdamD wrote: »

The point is the weight gain is very much possible as its absolutely not all muscle. If he put on that much weight and was actually ripped it would be far more suspect

Yes of course it would be "more suspect" but he isn't trying to be a body builder.
Just look at and strong man competition. They're not exactly ripped, but very very powerful all the same

Ceepo · 12-06-2020 12:25pm

In regard to testing Usada carried out 5 out of competition last year in golf and no test in competition, which in itself is hard to belive when you consider the amount of competitions held and the money that's at stake. So a total of 5 test.

For reference athletics had over 3000 in total.
No test at all in Pro boxing or soccer.

https://www.usada.org/news/testing-numbers/2019-testing-numbers-breakdown/

JCDUB · 12-06-2020 12:41pm

It seems pretty simple to me.

If the PGA tour/USGA won't go after Patrick Reed when he clearly and obviously cheated on live TV, with millions watching, why would they go after people using PEDs?

They need to look after the obvious stuff first.

However they won't, because money.

Mike3287 · 12-06-2020 12:51pm

Rippeditup wrote: »

I know people who compete in natural bodybuilding and I have competed in power lifting and can tell you now this is possible... he will have a team focusing on him but claiming he is on steroids is a big claim... if he was he would be tested as the changes are large and if he was positive he would lose millions in deals and would be tarnished, why would he do this when already he was close to the top.. he is someone who comes across as obsessive and if this is on his muscle development and power he would invest heavy in all modern ways within the laws of the game...

Its possible, but unlikely

Far easier for a sports star to get a doctor to put you on hrt and have levels at high normal range and feel like a god, passing everything drug test as your just peak natural

Its a huge thing in the states, very normal

Our doctors here think its pseudoscience, a needle, ahhhhh

Golf is my Game · 12-06-2020 12:58pm

I think athletics has to test so many because it's so hard to find a clean athlete. Still surprising so few are tested in golf though. People think it's a skill not a power game, but really it's a power game. This is the mistake loads of ams make - that it's a trade-off of power versas accuracy. But it's isn't. Power brings accuracy. So drugs sure help in golf, and with so much dough in the game, especially for the Americans, for who drugs in athletics, us football, cycling etc is so normalised youd have to think lots of the golfers are on the juice too.

Golf is my Game · 12-06-2020 1:00pm

JCDUB wrote: »

It seems pretty simple to me.

If the PGA tour/USGA won't go after Patrick Reed when he clearly and obviously cheated on live TV, with millions watching, why would they go after people using PEDs?

They need to look after the obvious stuff first.

However they won't, because money.

I'd say Patrick didn't get given a hard time because he has such an all round nice guy image, liked by fans and the tour guys so much, you would just have to give him the benefit of the doubt. Or not even doubt him. It would tick off his army of fans too if you went after him....

Ceepo · 12-06-2020 2:29pm

Golf is my Game wrote: »

I think athletics has to test so many because it's so hard to find a clean athlete. Still surprising so few are tested in golf though. People think it's a skill not a power game, but really it's a power game. This is the mistake loads of ams make - that it's a trade-off of power versas accuracy. But it's isn't. Power brings accuracy. So drugs sure help in golf, and with so much dough in the game, especially for the Americans, for who drugs in athletics, us football, cycling etc is so normalised youd have to think lots of the golfers are on the juice too.

I agree that athletics has a ped problem and has done for along time. But usada tests are only carried out in US. 3000 tested in athletics is a lot of test especially when you consider athletics is well down in the order of sports. Maybe golf and others sports don’t have a ped problem because they are not tested. Maybe if they tested more there would be more positive results. At best you'll only catch a % of who are dirty never mind a % of who you test. Also the amount of high level competition/events in athletics on a monthly or yearly basis I would say is a lower than golf.
Golf pretty much has the top players playing almost weekly for the whole year, as well as the lower level golf competitions.
I've no idea how many pga events are on every year, but you have a competition in a venue for 4 days almost every week of the year, usually the calendar of events is out well in advance, so that fact that there's no in competition test carried out is a farce.

I've take part in a good few events and spectated at countless others that there was doping control at, some of these were national championships other events that there might be a few elite's taking part in. Events where for the most part there little to no prize money

gypsy79 · 12-06-2020 4:35pm

Golf in my opinion now has a drugs problem until it proves it doesnt

Bryson's muscle gains are not possible without help. Any thinking he has put 20kg weight and only 3-4kg of it is muscle is deluded.

Its as blatent as can be at this stage

With test numbers so low then how did they catch DJ?

PokeHerKing · 12-06-2020 5:53pm

gypsy79 wrote: »

Golf in my opinion now has a drugs problem until it proves it doesnt

Bryson's muscle gains are not possible without help. Any thinking he has put 20kg weight and only 3-4kg of it is muscle is deluded.

Its as blatent as can be at this stage

With test numbers so low then how did they catch DJ?

DJ was on the bag and banging his colleagues wives. Don't speak in absolutes unless you're going to prove beyond reasonable doubt that bryson hasn't just been benching and eating pies. Because that's all it looks like to me.

gypsy79 · 12-06-2020 7:39pm

PokeHerKing wrote: »

DJ was on the bag and banging his colleagues wives. Don't speak in absolutes unless you're going to prove beyond reasonable doubt that bryson hasn't just been benching and eating pies. Because that's all it looks like to me.

They still caught him 3 times according to the rumours!!

And I am telling you that in my opinion, based on my knowledge of weight lifting, Bryson gains look far in excess of what is possible naturally

It has been demonstrated there is little or no testing on the PGA tour. If anyone was going to try make gains, knowing there was no testing, why wouldnt he take a shortcut!!

maddness · 13-06-2020 1:58pm

Anyone who thinks that their favourite sport doesn’t have a drug problem must be a darts fan. The type of person who dedicates their life to a sport to win will mostly do anything to win.
I love golf and rugby but have to admit their is a big drug problem in both. I have heard plenty of stories from past players in both sports about it. Perhaps they are all telling tales but the I really don’t think so. I haven’t seven seen the golfer in question but if it quacks like a duck...

maddness · 13-06-2020 6:43pm

I’ve just seen the player in question and I don’t think he’s taken anything to bulk up, plenty of food, protein and training. If he was ripped with a very low baby fat percentage perhaps but he looks completely normal to me.

CalamariFritti · 13-06-2020 8:10pm

He does not look normal to me. He looks like someone who did A LOT of weights on a diet of cheesecake. He looks almost caricaturesque.

downthemiddle · 13-06-2020 8:20pm

Ceepo wrote: »

I agree that athletics has a ped problem and has done for along time. But usada tests are only carried out in US. 3000 tested in athletics is a lot of test especially when you consider athletics is well down in the order of sports. Maybe golf and others sports don’t have a ped problem because they are not tested. Maybe if they tested more there would be more positive results. At best you'll only catch a % of who are dirty never mind a % of who you test. Also the amount of high level competition/events in athletics on a monthly or yearly basis I would say is a lower than golf.
Golf pretty much has the top players playing almost weekly for the whole year, as well as the lower level golf competitions.
I've no idea how many pga events are on every year, but you have a competition in a venue for 4 days almost every week of the year, usually the calendar of events is out well in advance, so that fact that there's no in competition test carried out is a farce.

I've take part in a good few events and spectated at countless others that there was doping control at, some of these were national championships other events that there might be a few elite's taking part in. Events where for the most part there little to no prize money

A drug culture is ingrained in American sport. Baseball and the NFL are riddled.
USADA are a joke of an organisation.
https://www.rte.ie/sport/boxing/2020/0612/1146982-us-boxer-escapes-ban-after-failing-dope-test-due-to-sex/

Deeper Blue · 13-06-2020 9:45pm

CalamariFritti wrote: »

He looks almost caricaturesque.

This. Regardless of how he bulked up he looks ridiculously out of proportion, it's comical.

Ceepo · 13-06-2020 9:51pm

downthemiddle wrote: »

A drug culture is ingrained in American sport. Baseball and the NFL are riddled.
USADA are a joke of an organisation.
https://www.rte.ie/sport/boxing/2020/0612/1146982-us-boxer-escapes-ban-after-failing-dope-test-due-to-sex/

100% agree with you. There have been many cases of cover ups going back to LA Olympics, to the recent Christian Coleman debacle and also the link you attached.

The only real thing that usada done was to nail Lance Armstrong

valoren · 13-06-2020 9:57pm

See Montgomerie advocating the tournament ball again, the one that goes 85% the distance of a normal ball. He does realise that there are relatively short hitters in the game as well? The sub 300 guys would also have to use these balls and the big hitters would also be the big hitters, relatively speaking, with such a ball. I believe its not the ball. That's only a factor. The drivers have maximum forgiveness, high MOI and what DeChambeau is doing is an experiment. Get as big as possible, big enough to deliver as much force as possible into the ball as accurately as possible, with these maximum forgiving drivers and then gouge it out onto the green from wherever it happens to land and make as many birdies as possible. Wash, rinse and repeat. DeChambeau, in this experiment, will show how far the ball can go under the current limitations. If governance wants to reel in long drive competition type distances then they should reel in the forgiveness of the heads and place a premium on driving accuracy with smaller sweet spot headed drivers. Limit ball speed off the face, the COR already is. Label the drivers with "TP", tournament play. Leave the max MOI drivers with all the ball speed benefits to the players they are designed for i.e. the rest of us.

the.red.baron · 13-06-2020 10:06pm

I put on 10kg during the lockdown and didn't lift a single weight

Your stats are for lean muscle gain, his certainly ain't that

Drugs in Golf

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