Parkrun..

Burkie1203 · 09-06-2020 07:37PM

robinph wrote: »

Ignoring the sweating and vomiting as being routes of transmission unless people are getting up to exceedingly weird things we are left with breathing in close proximity to others for a significant duration.

There are multiple ways of minimising any risk during the token handing out and scanning process. But doing away with scanning and timing does nothing to eliminate the socialising aspect at the start and finish. So why are people suggesting doing away with the timing as a solution? I can't see any gain from doing that as far as reducing the standing around at the start and finish aspects.

Getting rid of timing doesn't eliminate the standing around chatting at the start, and it also doesn't eliminate the standing around chatting at the finish. Unless you are suggesting people getting chased from the park with a cattle prod as soon as they cross the line?

socialising before or after is optional. If your on token or scanning duty, you are stuck to the one spot, this isnt rocket science to figure out

robinph · 09-06-2020 09:22PM

Burkie1203 wrote: »

socialising before or after is optional. If your on token or scanning duty, you are stuck to the one spot, this isnt rocket science to figure out

Not sure what your point is, but it doesn't take more than a couple of fractions of a second to hand out a token and only a second longer to scan it. Unless you belive that when parkrun restarts every single parkrunner is infectious and every one of them will be coughing directly at the token scanners I don't anticipate there being much of a problem.

If the volunteer is that nervous regarding infection then they are unlikely to have left their own front door since March and unlikely to do so for a long time after parkrun restarts.

Murph_D · 09-06-2020 09:43PM

robinph wrote: »

Not sure what your point is, but it doesn't take more than a couple of fractions of a second to hand out a token and only a second longer to scan it. Unless you belive that when parkrun restarts every single parkrunner is infectious and every one of them will be coughing directly at the token scanners I don't anticipate there being much of a problem.

If the volunteer is that nervous regarding infection then they are unlikely to have left their own front door since March and unlikely to do so for a long time after parkrun restarts.

Is a small problem acceptable? Of course not every park runner will be infectious but there's a reasonable chance (not really quantifiable with the current state of knowledge) that at least one of them will be, whether symptomatic or not, and a very high chance that that one person will be in contact with or in close proximity to a reasonably high number of others, depending on the event.

Hence distancing is still a thing, and so is limiting the size of gatherings.

robinph · 10-06-2020 06:51AM

Murph_D wrote: »

Hence distancing is still a thing, and so is limiting the size of gatherings.

There is no more interaction between parkrunners and token givers and scanner volunteers than between someone getting on a bus and the driver. Nobody is getting in a panic about buying their bus tickets, it's the sitting in the bus for 20 minutes in close proximity to a bunch of other people which is the risk, meanwhile the bus driver is in their own separate little box away from everyone else and with the window open to get some fresh air in.

average_runner · 10-06-2020 06:54AM

robinph wrote: »

There is no more interaction between parkrunners and token givers and scanner volunteers than between someone getting on a bus and the driver. Nobody is getting in a panic about buying their bus tickets, it's the sitting in the bus for 20 minutes in close proximity to a bunch of other people which is the risk, meanwhile the bus driver is in their own separate little box away from everyone else and with the window open to get some fresh air in.

But the bus driver has a screen between them and the customer.
Will there be screens protecting the token person?

Also its the gatherings at the start, hence why alot of races are cancelled.

Popupraces is running a trial race where groups of 4 go off 90 secs apart. You keep social distancing till it's your time

Burkie1203 · 10-06-2020 07:02AM

robinph wrote: »

There is no more interaction between parkrunners and token givers and scanner volunteers than between someone getting on a bus and the driver. Nobody is getting in a panic about buying their bus tickets, it's the sitting in the bus for 20 minutes in close proximity to a bunch of other people which is the risk, meanwhile the bus driver is in their own separate little box away from everyone else and with the window open to get some fresh air in.

Finish area is where people gather post run. The common denominator will be the token and scanning. Core team, Marshalls etc cannot control 200 ppl all at once. So of course there is an element of risk attached to being stuck in the one position for an hour

Dublin bus capacity is 17 (20% of bus capacity) and the driver has a screen and most passengers are wearing masks on the few buses I've been on in the last 3 weeks

It is already being looked at for alternatives according to one of the parkrun updates from a few weeks ago too so they obviously have concerns.

robinph · 10-06-2020 07:05AM

The volunteer can wear a mask if needed or get one of the clear face shields for them.

What has surprised me through this though is people coming up with all sorts of fantastical ways to do wave starts, no timing, pre booking your parkrun space etc and thinking that would enable parkrun to return. Mostly on various Facebook groups rather than here. But missing the most important, and most risky under current conditions, bit of a parkrun is not the 5km run or the time you get at the end... Its all about the hanging around chatting beforehand and the coffee and cake afterwards.

For all the talk about the wonderful parkrun ethos that nobody has ever explained but that gets pulled out every other week on the Facebook groups with whatever that weeks incident is, they seem to be very unaware of the social point of parkrun.

average_runner · 10-06-2020 08:10AM

robinph wrote: »

The volunteer can wear a mask if needed or get one of the clear face shields for them.

What has surprised me through this though is people coming up with all sorts of fantastical ways to do wave starts, no timing, pre booking your parkrun space etc and thinking that would enable parkrun to return. Mostly on various Facebook groups rather than here. But missing the most important, and most risky under current conditions, bit of a parkrun is not the 5km run or the time you get at the end... Its all about the hanging around chatting beforehand and the coffee and cake afterwards.

For all the talk about the wonderful parkrun ethos that nobody has ever explained but that gets pulled out every other week on the Facebook groups with whatever that weeks incident is, they seem to be very unaware of the social point of parkrun.

There is two areas for concern and the risk in Ireland right now is pretty low:
1. The gathering before the race and after. I dont stay around for the after.
2. Is the sweat droplets from people at the end for the stewards at the finish line and token person .

Also.sweat droplets arena concern during the race but u be very unlucky

Murph_D · 10-06-2020 08:14AM

robinph wrote: »

There is no more interaction between parkrunners and token givers and scanner volunteers than between someone getting on a bus and the driver. Nobody is getting in a panic about buying their bus tickets, it's the sitting in the bus for 20 minutes in close proximity to a bunch of other people which is the risk, meanwhile the bus driver is in their own separate little box away from everyone else and with the window open to get some fresh air in.

The bus is a poor analogy. For a start, parkrunners ‘transact’ with at least two volunteers, not one. And I don’t know about the UK, but in Ireland, at least when they have a choice, people ARE staying away from buying bus and train tickets, and from public transport in general. Every bike that’s been lying in the shed for the last 20 years seems to have been resurrected, for example, and the bike rental schemes are busier than they’ve ever been.

That said, the UK approach to a lot of things has been less cautious, and parkrun HQ has not been making the most conservative noises. I wouldn’t be surprised to see parkrun returning sooner over there. Not sure that Irish parkrun will follow suit, and that will be fine with me.

Rossi7 · 10-06-2020 08:22AM

Pretty sure I've read that 30 odd London Bus drivers have died from the virus so far, so is the cult going to accept 30 token scanners losing their lives

average_runner · 10-06-2020 09:09AM

Rossi7 wrote: »

Pretty sure I've read that 30 odd London Bus drivers have died from the virus so far, so is the cult going to accept 30 token scanners losing their lives

Do you know where the bus drivers got it from?
Havent heard of many in Ireland

robinph · 10-06-2020 04:46PM

average_runner wrote: »

Also.sweat droplets arena concern during the race but u be very unlucky

How is sweat a risk?

average_runner wrote: »

Do you know where the bus drivers got it from?
Havent heard of many in Ireland

There are probably a bunch more factors at play such as when the drivers caught it (before or after social distancing) and also age and ethnicity are very major factors in terms of risk. The bus drivers in London would tend to be very different from those around London.

As for interactions with bus drivers I believe that all fares were suspended quite quickly after lockdown initially came in, they are now taking fares again but for London this is only the tapping of your Oyster card anyway so limited interaction was ever happening.

Seannew1 · 10-06-2020 08:35PM

If people were to hazard a guess, when do ye think we will be back up and running again with parkrun?? My guess would be August. I'd be happy to volunteer for the first while to get it going again and hopefully people after a while would feel safe and comfortable to return. That's provided our re-opening goes according to plan and cases go down.

robinph · 11-06-2020 06:49AM

Seannew1 wrote: »

If people were to hazard a guess, when do ye think we will be back up and running again with parkrun?? My guess would be August. I'd be happy to volunteer for the first while to get it going again and hopefully people after a while would feel safe and comfortable to return. That's provided our re-opening goes according to plan and cases go down.

Think it will depend on how strictly parkrun stick to their current thinking that everything regarding social distancing must be gone before they restart. New Zealand will almost certainly be back in July and they currently have all restrictions lifted, except for international travel. I doubt that any other country is going to be able to reach that stage any time this year as all other countries, except North Korea, are much more interconnected with each other than New Zealand.

Once NZ has been running parkruns for a couple of months, and countries such as Ireland have moved to very limited social distancing measures (but still having some) I expect that parkrun will just have to cave to the pressure and allow opening up again. They will also have to re look at their plan of treating countries as one thing that must all open up at the same time as they can't open Ireland without NI, and to continue keeping Guernsey and Bressay closed because Bushy London is will get increasingly daft as the months go by.

average_runner · 11-06-2020 09:02AM

Sweat droplets landing on another runner is a way to pass the virus, its a low risk in my opinion but if you have people coughing and spitting(all very common) when racing, it will increase the risk.

Pop up races ran a trial last night, it was good but not really practical for your normal race

robinph · 11-06-2020 09:13AM

average_runner wrote: »

Sweat droplets landing on another runner is a way to pass the virus, its a low risk in my opinion but if you have people coughing and spitting(all very common) when racing, it will increase the risk.

Is it? Where did you get that information from?

It's an infection affecting your lungs, how would your sweat become infectious?

average_runner · 11-06-2020 11:29AM

robinph wrote: »

Is it? Where did you get that information from?

It's an infection affecting your lungs, how would your sweat become infectious?

But when people sweat, usually your nose will have gunk etc, this can transfer with sweat. When people sweat they wipe their face, droplets from mouth or nose can come off that. People also breath heavy if racing and droplets can come from the mouth due to that.

Its a low risk as I said. To be honest I am not against racing, was training with a group last week

robinph · 11-06-2020 11:55AM

average_runner wrote: »

But when people sweat, usually your nose will have gunk etc, this can transfer with sweat. When people sweat they wipe their face, droplets from mouth or nose can come off that. People also breath heavy if racing and droplets can come from the mouth due to that.

Its a low risk as I said. To be honest I am not against racing, was training with a group last week

But that is still not sweat that is dangerous, just that people who sweat might be breathing out infectious droplets. I'd doubt if anyones sweat is becoming an aerosol and floating around in the atmosphere for any duration as sweat droplets will be falling to the ground pretty quickly, especially if they have snot in them as well. Other than the "study" from a month or so ago claiming that running 30 meters behind people was somehow dangerous there isn't anything to suggest that people are likely to catch Covid19 from running with someone else.

If you are infectious and wipe your sweaty brow and then cough on your hand and then shake hands with someone who then licks their hand and wipes their eyes, frankly they deserve pretty much everything they get.

average_runner · 11-06-2020 01:02PM

robinph wrote: »

But that is still not sweat that is dangerous, just that people who sweat might be breathing out infectious droplets. I'd doubt if anyones sweat is becoming an aerosol and floating around in the atmosphere for any duration as sweat droplets will be falling to the ground pretty quickly, especially if they have snot in them as well. Other than the "study" from a month or so ago claiming that running 30 meters behind people was somehow dangerous there isn't anything to suggest that people are likely to catch Covid19 from running with someone else.

If you are infectious and wipe your sweaty brow and then cough on your hand and then shake hands with someone who then licks their hand and wipes their eyes, frankly they deserve pretty much everything they get.

I said it was low risk. In all races I do, there usually 5 people around me especially in parkrun until the last 1.5k.

But at some stage we got to accept a risk as i don't see pop up races as a solution

ger664 · 11-06-2020 11:02PM

We currently have ~ 800 active cases in Ireland from a population of nearly 5 Million. 300 or so are in Hospital the other 500 should be in isolation. Of that 500 how many are actually park runners.

As regards asymptomatic case. Probably only 100-200 cases in the country if it was any bigger the daily new cases would not be its current rate < 20/day

IMO Currently The risk of getting Covid-19 at a parkrun is about the same as getting lyms diese at a parkrun

ariana` · 12-06-2020 07:28AM

ger664 wrote: »

We currently have ~ 800 active cases in Ireland from a population of nearly 5 Million. 300 or so are in Hospital the other 500 should be in isolation. Of that 500 how many are actually park runners.

As regards asymptomatic case. Probably only 100-200 cases in the country if it was any bigger the daily new cases would not be its current rate < 20/day

IMO Currently The risk of getting Covid-19 at a parkrun is about the same as getting lyms diese at a parkrun

I believe it's only in recent weeks (past month or so) that the close contacts of positive cases have been tested even if they're showing no symptoms and the relative health professionals have been very surprised by the proportion of asymptomatic cases. I don't know the % but apparently its higher than anticipated. But you're right these would be included in overall numbers so are still low but it does raise the likelihood of running along someone with Covid at park run. I think it is these asymptomatic cases that is most worrying in general.

Murph_D · 12-06-2020 03:07PM

Never underestimate the optimism of the amateur epidemiologist.

TaurenDruid · 13-06-2020 03:29PM

Something non-covid related!

Got the mail there about the new apricot shirts. Great!

Clicked on the link. STG£33 for a running tee? Eh, no. No way I can justify nearly €40 on a running shirt! I mean, I've spent a lot less on race entries, that came with a shirt included!

What's the thinking here? Keep them exclusive, or something? Seems a bit mad. I'd be doing the opposite - selling them around €20, but also having the milestone shirts available to buy - you get your first free, but can re-buy if you want (to replace one after wear and tear, or moving up or down a size).

GalwayGrrrrrl · 13-06-2020 03:34PM

TaurenDruid wrote: »

Something non-covid related!

Got the mail there about the new apricot shirts. Great!

Clicked on the link. STG£33 for a running tee? Eh, no. No way I can justify nearly €40 on a running shirt! I mean, I've spent a lot less on race entries, that came with a shirt included!

What's the thinking here? Keep them exclusive, or something? Seems a bit mad. I'd be doing the opposite - selling them around €20, but also having the milestone shirts available to buy - you get your first free, but can re-buy if you want (to replace one after wear and tear, or moving up or down a size).

Given the price people pay for football shirts, GAA shirts etc they are fairly reasonably priced. It’s the only thing in parkrun that you have to pay for, and I’m happy to support them.

TaurenDruid · 13-06-2020 03:49PM

GalwayGrrrrrl wrote: »

Given the price people pay for football shirts, GAA shirts etc they are fairly reasonably priced. It’s the only thing in parkrun that you have to pay for, and I’m happy to support them.

Yeah, but you can wear a football, GAA or rugby shirt as casual wear, to the pub, casual Friday, etc. Not so much a running tee. Maybe I've been doing it wrong, though

Swashbuckler · 13-06-2020 04:03PM

average_runner wrote:

Also.sweat droplets arena concern during the race but u be very unlucky

Toxic sweat eh?

py · 13-06-2020 05:08PM

TaurenDruid wrote: »

Something non-covid related!

Got the mail there about the new apricot shirts. Great!

Clicked on the link. STG£33 for a running tee? Eh, no. No way I can justify nearly €40 on a running shirt! I mean, I've spent a lot less on race entries, that came with a shirt included!

What's the thinking here? Keep them exclusive, or something? Seems a bit mad. I'd be doing the opposite - selling them around €20, but also having the milestone shirts available to buy - you get your first free, but can re-buy if you want (to replace one after wear and tear, or moving up or down a size).

I'd say the thinking is that you get a 5Km timed run for free every week across a number of countries. Bills have to be paid etc. It's a good quality shirt, I'll probably pick up one of the apricot vests soon enough.

Shedite27 · 13-06-2020 05:53PM

TaurenDruid wrote: »

Something non-covid related!

Got the mail there about the new apricot shirts. Great!

Clicked on the link. STG£33 for a running tee? Eh, no. No way I can justify nearly €40 on a running shirt! I mean, I've spent a lot less on race entries, that came with a shirt included!

What's the thinking here? Keep them exclusive, or something? Seems a bit mad. I'd be doing the opposite - selling them around €20, but also having the milestone shirts available to buy - you get your first free, but can re-buy if you want (to replace one after wear and tear, or moving up or down a size).

Lots of 5ks get you one race and one T-shirt for €30.
You get unlimited 5ks plus one T-shirt for €40.

Sounds like a bargain

TaurenDruid · 13-06-2020 05:57PM

py wrote: »

I'd say the thinking is that you get a 5Km timed run for free every week across a number of countries. Bills have to be paid etc. It's a good quality shirt, I'll probably pick up one of the apricot vests soon enough.

Yeah, that's the thing. If I do get one of these, it'll be a one-off - likely a Christmas or birthday present. But if they were a more normal price - say €15 or €20 - I'd happily have a couple in my wardrobe. And I'd happily re-buy replacements for my older milestone tees. They'd get more money out of me is the point.

I mean, I've got race entry, a technical top, a medal and a goodie bag for half what they're charging, and that money was also going to a good cause.

robinph · 13-06-2020 05:59PM

Amongst the family I think I've bought 3 apricot tshirts, a water bottle, 5 wrist bands, 5 different types of other barcode... And have received 7 free tshirts and 500+ free timed 5km runs and multiple excuses to visit places we'd otherwise never have considered going.

Think that's a pretty good deal personally.

Edit: forgot there was a book and another couple of casual tshirts I've bought as well.

Parkrun..

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