VW ID.3

liamog · 04-06-2020 10:38am

L-M wrote: »

You could say that about any electric performance car.

Fixed that for you.
Engine tune plus harder suspension equals more expensive model.

Royale with Cheese · 04-06-2020 11:16am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I couldn't imagine paying 50k for an ID.3 when you can get a what 5.5 second 0-100 Km Tesla M3 for around that price, it would be mad and it's got what 170 Kw charging too ? madness.

You get the charging network with Tesla too, which is definitely something people should be taking into account. I'm planning on taking my Model 3 abroad in September and really wouldn't fancy doing the same trip in a non Tesla EV. Even within Ireland it makes a difference.

drunkmonkey · 04-06-2020 11:21am

timsey tiger wrote: »

I googled "vw gti 0-100" and it says 0 - 100kmph 6.4s and 0 - 60mph 5.6s, seems like a fair bit for that last ~3.4kmph.

The fastest car I've ever had was a 2.0 tdi mk6 golf, so I recon the acceleration will be plenty for me.

Unkel thanks for the reality check on the deprecation, need to stick to the original plan, €35k version of id3 now, German built tesla Y in 4 years time, when I'm not paying the extra 10% import duties.

VW claim the ID3 is quicker to 60km than any GTI, it loses the power on the top end.
The finance deals should be interesting, the pcp buy back figures will be the ones to watch.

Do we know when the demos are meant to hit dealerships?

04-06-2020 11:50am

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

You get the charging network with Tesla too, which is definitely something people should be taking into account. I'm planning on taking my Model 3 abroad in September and really wouldn't fancy doing the same trip in a non Tesla EV. Even within Ireland it makes a difference.

Have you read the news in the last week. They are dropping prices but taking away free charging in the US.
Tesla are not going to invest heavily in a charging network in Europe when E.U. countries are subsidising CCS charging infrastructure.

Sabre Man · 04-06-2020 12:34pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Have you read the news in the last week. They are dropping prices but taking away free charging in the US.
Tesla are not going to invest heavily in a charging network in Europe when E.U. countries are subsidising CCS charging infrastructure.

It isn't really about the free charging. It's about having plug and play access to a single reliable charging network integrated into your car instead of having to register with multiple providers in other countries.

In time, I'm sure Ionity will get there but they're not yet at the same level as Tesla in most areas.

04-06-2020 12:52pm

Sabre Man wrote: »

It isn't really about the free charging. It's about having plug and play access to a single reliable charging network integrated into your car instead of having to register with multiple providers in other countries.

In time, I'm sure Ionity will get there but they're not yet at the same level as Tesla in most areas.

My novofleet card works for me most places. I don't think I have ever used my other two cards apart from car washes and washer fluid.
The Tesla advantage is over-stated in general.

unkel · 04-06-2020 12:56pm

Sabre Man wrote: »

It isn't really about the free charging. It's about having plug and play access to a single reliable charging network integrated into your car instead of having to register with multiple providers in other countries.

In time, I'm sure Ionity will get there but they're not yet at the same level as Tesla in most areas.

Well said. People don't seem to understand how good the Tesla supercharger network is. Very reliable, fully integrated with the car's navigation software and you just lift up the cable and stick it into your car and it will start charging. No apps, no pressing any buttons, no swiping any cards, no paying

Lumen · 04-06-2020 12:57pm

I think Tesla (and US drag strip videos) have rather corrupted the EV performance space.

The Model 3 was (from a performance perspective) revolutionary in that it brought sprightly performance with non-barge like handling. I find that it can be threaded down a narrow road more comfortably than either of my ICE cars, although there's no hiding 1850kg on a bumpy road.

The ID.3 with its RWD has the potential to be a lovely perfomer, with the steering uncorrupted by AWD, a slightly shorter wheelbase than the M3, a tighter turning circle and a couple of hundred less kg to haul around.

"Sub-8" i.e. Kona-level performance is IMO completely fine as long as its goes, steers and stops nicely. I'm sure VW will attempt to profit from faster versions in future, ruining it in the normal fashion with massive wheels and unnecessary brakes. I guess it remains to be seen how much people will pay for a fast VW that doesn't make vroom noises.

04-06-2020 1:04pm

unkel wrote: »

Well said. People don't seem to understand how good the Tesla supercharger network is. Very reliable, fully integrated with the car's navigation software and you just lift up the cable and stick it into your car and it will start charging. No apps, no pressing any buttons, no swiping any cards, no paying

Thanks but I'd prefer to have the blanket coverage of CCS and type 2 AC chargers which I enjoy here and the Government are investing huge amounts to build out the charging infrastructre still further.
I will not buy in to a proprietary system. If you replaced the name Tesla with Ford and were told that you were restricted to Ford fuel stations you'd be outraged.

Lumen · 04-06-2020 1:05pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Thanks but I'd prefer to have the blanket coverage of CCS and type 2 AC chargers which I enjoy here and the Government are investing huge amounts to build out the charging infrastructre still further.
I will not buy in to a proprietary system. If you replaced the name Tesla with Ford and were told that you were restricted to Ford fuel stations you'd be outraged.

Which country is here?

04-06-2020 1:09pm

The one which just introduced an additional 3000 euro bonus on top of the existing 3000 bonus from Government matched by 3000 from manufacturer(where invoice price is below 40000 excluding Tesla's current offering); Germany.

Mickeroo · 04-06-2020 1:10pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Thanks but I'd prefer to have the blanket coverage of CCS and type 2 AC chargers which I enjoy here and the Government are investing huge amounts to build out the charging infrastructre still further.
I will not buy in to a proprietary system. If you replaced the name Tesla with Ford and were told that you were restricted to Ford fuel stations you'd be outraged.

It's more like if Ford had their own private network of fuelling stations that only Ford drivers could use while still having access every other fuelling station as they see fit.

04-06-2020 1:29pm

Mickeroo wrote: »

It's more like if Ford had their own private network of fuelling stations that only Ford drivers could use while still having access every other fuelling station as they see fit.

except the cost of the proprietary charging infrastructure is baked in to the purchase price. I don't think I'm the only one who sees that as being an unattractive proposition.

JPA · 04-06-2020 1:50pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Thanks but I'd prefer to have the blanket coverage of CCS and type 2 AC chargers which I enjoy here and the Government are investing huge amounts to build out the charging infrastructre still further.
I will not buy in to a proprietary system. If you replaced the name Tesla with Ford and were told that you were restricted to Ford fuel stations you'd be outraged.

You realise the Model 3 can use those CCS and type 2 chargers as well?

04-06-2020 3:02pm

JPA wrote: »

You realise the Model 3 can use those CCS and type 2 chargers as well?

In Europe yes but why pay a premium for a limited supercharger network that won't be recovered over the lifetime of the car.

Royale with Cheese · 04-06-2020 3:09pm

Well just from personally planning out my trip, I'd rather not be relying on one off 50kw CCS chargers (that may or may not be functioning when you turn up) on my 5 hour drive back from Brittany back to Cherbourg to catch my boat.

Anyway... I guess my initial point was that as an ICE driver I was only ever looking at battery size and range when thinking about switching to an EV. Having owned one now for 6 months, charging speed and access to a decent charging network are just as (possibly more) important for long journies.

Lumen · 04-06-2020 4:15pm

Deleted User wrote: »

In Europe yes but why pay a premium for a limited supercharger network that won't be recovered over the lifetime of the car.

I don't get the "network priced in" idea.

Tesla's investors and bondholders paid for (and now own) their supercharger network, not the customers.

There is no real relationship between the price of the cars and the quality of the network. The US has four times the supercharger density per capita vs Europe, but USAnians don't pay more for the cars.

Silent Running · 04-06-2020 4:17pm

Deleted User wrote: »

In Europe yes but why pay a premium for a limited supercharger network that won't be recovered over the lifetime of the car.

good to see I'm not the only one who has avoided the Tesla Kool-Aid.

timsey tiger · 04-06-2020 4:28pm

Lumen wrote: »

I don't get the "network priced in" idea.

Tesla's investors and bondholders paid for (and now own) their supercharger network, not the customers.

There is no real relationship between the price of the cars and the quality of the network. The US has four times the supercharger density per capita vs Europe, but USAnians don't pay more for the cars.

I guess Europeans are paying for a US charging network then too :eek:

unkel · 04-06-2020 5:13pm

Deleted User wrote: »

In Europe yes but why pay a premium for a limited supercharger network that won't be recovered over the lifetime of the car.

What do you mean, pay a premium? I bought my Tesla second hand. It can charge for free at any supercharger in the world. It can also charge for free at 23kW at any of the ESB and other 23kW AC chargers. I could get it converted to CCS for EUR475 and / or I could buy a CHAdeMO cable. The only car that can charge at ALL public chargers...

pdpmur · 04-06-2020 5:39pm

unkel wrote: »

What do you mean, pay a premium? I bought my Tesla second hand. It can charge for free at any supercharger in the world. It can also charge for free at 23kW at any of the ESB and other 23kW AC chargers. I could get it converted to CCS for EUR475 and / or I could buy a CHAdeMO cable. The only car that can charge at ALL public chargers...

Ehhh....
Any chance of keeping this thread from swerving increasingly off-topic, Mr Moderator?

unkel · 04-06-2020 9:27pm

pdpmur wrote: »

Ehhh....
Any chance of keeping this thread from swerving increasingly off-topic, Mr Moderator?

I answered a question, dude. And I'm not a moderator on this forum. And if you have a problem with a post, report it and the moderators will take action if they see fit to do so. But you should know all this already, you have been around on boards for a very long time.

JPA · 04-06-2020 9:55pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

In Europe yes but why pay a premium for a limited supercharger network that won't be recovered over the lifetime of the car.

Any premium is because they are a superior EV. We'll see what the ID3 brings.

liamog · 05-06-2020 4:30am

Mod Note: We're approaching crunch time for preorders, expect a lot of discussion re alternatives as may people weigh up the pros and cons.

liamog · 05-06-2020 4:39am

JPA wrote: »

Any premium is because they are a superior EV. We'll see what the ID3 brings.

Both Ionity and the Supercharger network are funded by manufacturers. Tesla subsidise the supercharger network to a higher degree per car, wheres the Ionity members appear to have chosen a lower per car subsidy, and instead sell a charging subscription to users.

In VWs case this will be the We Charge service. Each ID.3 1st comes with 2000kWh, and the first years charging membership included. For series production, you will still be able to optain a WeCharge membership but will have to pay from day 1.

drunkmonkey · 05-06-2020 6:40am

What’s the cost to fill it from 0 to full at home at normal daytime rates?

liamog · 05-06-2020 7:16am

drunkmonkey wrote: »

What’s the cost to fill it from 0 to full at home at normal daytime rates?

58kWh battery, assuming a charging efficiency of 90% means you'd need 64kWh. Energia's current domestic electric only rate is 12.98c/kWh so it's approx €8.36.

I picked Energia because they are my supplier.

L-M · 05-06-2020 8:24am

Excuse my ignorance but to clarify

If you had a 40 KW battery and you could charge at 5kw with an assumed efficiency of 90% is it simple enough maths to say it’ll take almost 9 hours to fill that battery?

40 / (5 x .9)?

liamog · 05-06-2020 8:32am

L-M wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance but to clarify

If you had a 40 KW battery and you could charge at 5kw with an assumed efficiency of 90% is it simple enough maths to say it’ll take almost 9 hours to fill that battery?

40 / (5 x .9)?

Sort of, what you tend to find is that the car is advertised with a certain spec of charger i.e. 6.6kW but if you were to put a meter on the power supply you'd see that there was a higher number going in, 7.3kW.

So in your hypothetical car with a 5kW charger it would still take 8 hours (ignoring cell balancing), but the energy drawn would be 45kWh instead of 40kWh.
At least this is the way I think it works.

Miscreant · 05-06-2020 8:33am

L-M wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance but to clarify

If you had a 40 KW battery and you could charge at 5kw with an assumed efficiency of 90% is it simple enough maths to say it’ll take almost 9 hours to fill that battery?

40 / (5 x .9)?

It would take just over 7 hours but I doubt there would be many times that you would coast in to your driveway at home with 0% left in your battery.

Lumen · 05-06-2020 8:56am

Miscreant wrote: »

It would take just over 7 hours but I doubt there would be many times that you would coast in to your driveway at home with 0% left in your battery.

No, it would take just under 9 hours.

Why 5kW though?

L-M · 05-06-2020 10:33am

Sorry I was just using 5 for simple ish maths.

kris_2021 · 09-06-2020 5:52pm

Appointment made for 17th with the dealer. Cannot wait!

arch_stanton · 09-06-2020 5:58pm

kris_2021 wrote: »

Appointment made for 17th with the dealer. Cannot wait!

Did they contact you or you contacted them? Did they give any further details on the process?

drunkmonkey · 09-06-2020 6:02pm

Is that for a Test drive? Are all dealers getting one I wonder..

I'm starting to lean towards the Mustang long range though....there being very quite I wonder will they try and steal some of VW's thunder at the last minute. There doesn't seem be much price wise between the Max and the long range rwd.

liamog · 09-06-2020 6:08pm

I think 17th of June is ordering day. Drove past Frank Keane Liffey valley and noticed they now have a DC charger installed, not sure what speed it is.

arch_stanton · 09-06-2020 6:13pm

The ordering window opens on the 17th for 4 weeks. No test drives, the dealers will get their first cars at the same time as the preorder customers. I’m still hoping some reviewers got them. It was supposed to happen in April but something else came up :-s

kris_2021 · 09-06-2020 6:20pm

arch_stanton wrote: »

Did they contact you or you contacted them? Did they give any further details on the process?

They contacted me. It is to make final order and get final prices/finance deals etc.
No test drives for now as far as I know. No extra details. It will be revealed same time across Europe so they cannot say anything.

drunkmonkey · 09-06-2020 6:21pm

Anyone know when the restrictions come off the journalist to let out their reviews, Bob spoke highly of it I wonder did he do a review while it was in Ireland.

eagerv · 09-06-2020 6:22pm

I would still like to at least sit in one before committing to purchase..
Unfortunately I was out of the country for the open day last year.

Irishjg · 09-06-2020 6:36pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Anyone know when the restrictions come off the journalist to let out their reviews, Bob spoke highly of it I wonder did he do a review while it was in Ireland.

I think I’d prefer a proper Bjorn review vs a Bob review. I like the detail Bjorn goes to. Nothing against Bob, he is entertaining.

drunkmonkey · 09-06-2020 6:41pm

I'd prefer bob as he's still in the don't buy an EV camp, would like his seal of approval.

Silent Running · 09-06-2020 7:01pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Anyone know when the restrictions come off the journalist to let out their reviews, Bob spoke highly of it I wonder did he do a review while it was in Ireland.

The car brought over for the Weston event wasn't a driver. It was a car put together to give people a feel for the real thing. The only cars driven by journos were on mainland Europe. It is possible that Bob went over there to do a test drive.

Davy · 10-06-2020 2:58pm

https://www.volkswagen-newsroom.com/en/press-releases/id3-1st-deliveries-begin-in-early-september-6122

Membership of the exclusive ID.3 1st Mover Club

ID.3 pre-bookers can choose between two different options: The first is delivery of their ID.3 1st in early September, combined with membership of the exclusive ID.3 1st Mover Club. This membership includes various customer benefits – and a software update for two outstanding digital functions at the beginning of next year. At market launch in September, the App Connect function and the distance feature in the head-up display will not yet have been activated.

ID.3 pre-bookers with a little more patience can choose the second option when signing the purchase agreement for their ID.3 1st – with a delivery date in the fourth quarter of 2020. When the keys are handed over to the customer, this later version will be equipped with all functions.

Jürgen Stackmann, Volkswagen Brand Board Member for Sales, commented: “Finally, our ID.3 pre-bookers have been given the long-awaited green light for emission-free driving pleasure. As a token of thanks for their loyalty to the brand and a gesture of appreciation for their patience during the long wait until ordering kicked off, we are offering all pre-bookers wishing to take possession of their ID.3 1st in September membership of the ID.3 1st Mover Club.”

By opening this community, Volkswagen is providing for an exchange of experience among all “ID.3 1st Movers” – and also establishing a direct line to Volkswagen. It will not only be possible to engage direct with customer enquiries, but will also enable Volkswagen to collect feedback on everyday experiences along with comments from ID.3 first drivers for use in further development. “To say thank you, all 1st Movers who are leasing their vehicles will not pay any leasing rates for the first three months”, Jürgen Stackmann said.

The general ordering system for ID.3 models begins four weeks later – and pre-bookers have the exclusive opportunity to join the 1st Mover Club until then.

arch_stanton · 10-06-2020 3:14pm

Interesting, at least some of the rumours of software issues were correct. My budget doesn't stretch to the max so the delay to distance in the HUD doesn't bother me.

I could live without the app connect for a few months but I'd like to see what they offer in return. I doubt I'll be leasing so the 3 months free is of no benefit. That must be worth at least 1k so it would be nice for them to drop it off the price of the car for the beta testers.

pdpmur · 10-06-2020 4:04pm

Does anyone know anything about the leasing option mentioned in the VW release?

bodgerfederer · 10-06-2020 4:19pm

arch_stanton wrote: »

The ordering window opens on the 17th for 4 weeks. No test drives, the dealers will get their first cars at the same time as the preorder customers. I’m still hoping some reviewers got them. It was supposed to happen in April but something else came up :-s

So some folks will buy a car before test driving it or even sitting in it? Is that right? Who are these people?

arch_stanton · 10-06-2020 4:20pm

pdpmur wrote: »

Does anyone know anything about the leasing option mentioned in the VW release?

From what I've read leasing seems to be more popular on the continent than here but there's a push on for it, particularly with EVs. Back at the December presentation they spoke about lease plans and PCPs with little or no deposit and a high (50% ? ) GFMV to try to keep the monthly payment accessible. I guess all will be revealed next week.

arch_stanton · 10-06-2020 4:30pm

bodgerfederer wrote: »

So some folks will buy a car before test driving it or even sitting in it? Is that right? Who are these people?

Some of us had the opportunity to sit in it when they brought a prototype to Dublin late last year.

As for the test drive, it is what it is. Take the leap of faith or join the queue for a regular edition car. With the covid related economic issue demand may be down but possibly production as well. I need to change car this year and there can be long waits for other brands, eg. e-niro. The specs in my opinion are good and I have to have some faith in volkswagen producing a competent car. Initial reviews on the prototypes were very positive although I would like to see reviews on the production model before parting with cash.

All of this will be brought up with the dealer before anything is signed, including confirmation on when is the point of no return on parting with cash.

Rusky rusky · 10-06-2020 5:27pm

Email has landed from the Volkswagen ID team ab the ordering window from the 17th of June. You can also now order online the cheapest version of ID charger at €400 with 1-phase 7.4kW charging, 4.5m cable (+€50 for 7.5m) and a delivery charge of €15. Optional installation €756...

VW ID.3

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