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Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail Discussion

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  • #2342
    Muckyboots
    Closed Accounts Posts: 652 ✭✭✭Muckyboots


    Sligo eye wrote: »
    At this stage who cares, the timetable and service patterns can’t be established until the service gets approval?

    I care and so does my wife. .


  • #2343
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,421 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Isambard wrote: »
    In my experience you'd have to change trains at Limerick on a Lim Junc to Ennis journey. The one I was on was described as a through service but wasn't.

    If you can change in Limerick, why would someone think you shouldn't have to change at Athenry on a Tuam service?

    I was on a 'direct' train from Limerick Junction to Ennis via Limerick. The train stopped in Limerick. I thought I had to change because the it was a terminus platform - but no, same train had to return from whence it came.

    However, Athlone to Galway is single track, and so is Ennis to Athenry, and presumably will Tuam to Athenry be if it ever gets built. Now how does that get scheduled giving rise to another mini-Limerick Junction fiasco in the making - late arrivals causing huge delays, and missed connections. Not a happy prospect.


  • #2344
    Lord Glentoran
    Closed Accounts Posts: 876 ✭✭✭Lord Glentoran


    Muckyboots wrote: »
    I care and so does my wife. .

    I suppose we can all keep speculating about likely patterns of service until one eventually emerges. Funny enough I was looking at an old thread about the cross city Luas and it was asserted as “fact” that bus stops would be removed between Marlborough Street and Dawson Street with the construction of the Luas line. No doubt in a decade or so some other poster will resurrect this and the other threads on this and judge us all with the benefit of hindsight...


  • #2345
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,537 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    The trains leaving Tuam are destined for Galway or Limerick?

    i don't know, there aren't any trains from tuam.
    but i would suspect galway would at least be a destination yes should there ever be any.
    Sam Russell wrote: »
    The trains leaving Ennis are going to Tuam or Galway?

    they are going to galway or limerick.
    again there are no trains to tuam so i am not going to know if there will be any trains from ennis.
    Sam Russell wrote: »
    The trains going from Limerick Junction to Ennis go via Limerick and have to change ends, so why not at Athenry?

    because they may not have to do so at athenry?
    the layout may in fact allow through running, but i have never been there so don't know.


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    Is this thought through?

    is what thought through?

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #2346
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,421 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    end of the road wrote: »
    i don't know, there aren't any trains from tuam.
    but i would suspect galway would at least be a destination yes should there ever be any.



    they are going to galway or limerick.
    again there are no trains to tuam so i am not going to know if there will be any trains from ennis.



    because they may not have to do so at athenry?
    the layout may in fact allow through running, but i have never been there so don't know.





    is what thought through?

    So you have not been to Athenry, and you do not know anything about the routing or even what has been proposed.

    Have you even been to Limerick Junction? It might help you yo understand the routing problem. Add in the single track nature of the train service, and then you have a scheduling nightmare. One train late causes huge knock on delays.

    I will leave it there.


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  • #2347
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,537 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    So you have not been to Athenry, and you do not know anything about the routing or even what has been proposed.

    Have you even been to Limerick Junction? It might help you yo understand the routing problem. Add in the single track nature of the train service, and then you have a scheduling nightmare. One train late causes huge knock on delays.

    I will leave it there.

    i have been through limerick junction a number of times.
    not sure how you think it will help me with any routing problem down in galway?

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #2348
    ShaneC1600
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 212 ✭✭ShaneC1600


    I was listening to the debate between Cannon and O Cuiv on GBFM yesterday regarding the reopening of the Western Rail Corridor. Ciaran Cannon mentioned previous reports and a figure of 8 to 100 against the railway. Would anyone have the name of this report?


  • #2349
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    ShaneC1600 wrote: »
    I was listening to the debate between Cannon and O Cuiv on GBFM yesterday regarding the reopening of the Western Rail Corridor. Ciaran Cannon mentioned previous reports and a figure of 8 to 100 against the railway. Would anyone have the name of this report?

    Varadkar called out the same when he was Transport Minister so it would be back during his reign I'd say.


  • #2350
    ShaneC1600
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 212 ✭✭ShaneC1600


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Varadkar called out the same when he was Transport Minister so it would be back during his reign I'd say.

    Yea I have heard it before and people use it often but I’ve never heard the source.


  • #2351
    Muckyboots
    Closed Accounts Posts: 652 ✭✭✭Muckyboots


    ShaneC1600 wrote: »
    Yea I have heard it before and people use it often but I’ve never heard the source.

    He did say it during an Oireachtas debate. I think he was Taoiseach at the time. Interestingly, Deputy Noel Grealish was nudging for The Quiet Man Greenway back in 2012 !
    https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2012-04-18/1402/question/1402/
    The new Government formation will no doubt bring some movement, either steel or rubber, on the WRC and the last independent grasping to the hind tit will be critical to the outcome.


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  • #2352
    TCDStudent1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,019 ✭✭✭TCDStudent1


    ShaneC1600 wrote: »
    I was listening to the debate between Cannon and O Cuiv on GBFM yesterday regarding the reopening of the Western Rail Corridor. Ciaran Cannon mentioned previous reports and a figure of 8 to 100 against the railway. Would anyone have the name of this report?




    Is it possible to listen back to this debate?


  • #2353
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    TCDStudent1 wrote: »
    Is it possible to listen back to this debate?

    https://galwaybayfm.ie/podcasts/galway-talks-with-keith-finnegan-friday-22nd-may-2020-2-2-2-2-2-2/

    From 53 minutes 20 seconds onwards


  • #2354
    Geuze
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,425 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    The trains leaving Tuam are destined for Galway or Limerick?

    The trains leaving Ennis are going to Tuam or Galway?

    The trains going from Limerick Junction to Ennis go via Limerick and have to change ends, so why not at Athenry?

    Is this thought through?


    The way I might design it is as follows:

    Services are

    (1) Westport - DUB
    (2) Ballina - GY
    (3) GY - LK
    (4) local stopping trains on doubled track GY to Athenry

    The Westport train and the Ballina train cross in Claremorris.

    So pax from both starting points can change, and go to DUB or GY.

    Claremorris station to be expanded to a regional hub, with busses from Sligo and other places stopping there to transfer pax onto trains.

    Two LC either side of Ballindine and LC near Milltown eliminated.

    Line speed on all track other than GY-Athenry to be minimum 120kph, preferably 160kph.

    Track doubled from Athenry to GY, line speeds increased to 200 kph max.

    New stations at Renmore/Merlin (where?) and Roscam.

    Stopping train to provide GY - Renmore - Roscam - Oranmore - Athenry all day.

    Doubled track to be electrified, to prepare for Ireland 2040 plan and general pop growth, and modal switch.


  • #2355
    Isambard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,775 ✭✭✭Isambard


    just as soon as we pay off the Covid debts perhaps.


  • #2356
    Muckyboots
    Closed Accounts Posts: 652 ✭✭✭Muckyboots


    Geuze wrote: »
    The way I might design it is as follows:

    Services are

    (1) Westport - DUB
    (2) Ballina - GY
    (3) GY - LK
    (4) local stopping trains on doubled track GY to Athenry

    The Westport train and the Ballina train cross in Claremorris.

    So pax from both starting points can change, and go to DUB or GY.

    Claremorris station to be expanded to a regional hub, with busses from Sligo and other places stopping there to transfer pax onto trains.

    Two LC either side of Ballindine and LC near Milltown eliminated.

    Line speed on all track other than GY-Athenry to be minimum 120kph, preferably 160kph.

    Track doubled from Athenry to GY, line speeds increased to 200 kph max.

    New stations at Renmore/Merlin (where?) and Roscam.

    Stopping train to provide GY - Renmore - Roscam - Oranmore - Athenry all day.

    Doubled track to be electrified, to prepare for Ireland 2040 plan and general pop growth, and modal switch.

    So a train from Ballina to Galway would require two pax changes 1. at Claremorris Region Hub and 2 at Athnenry to catch the 200KPH high speed shuttle into the city?


  • #2357
    Geuze
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,425 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Muckyboots wrote: »
    So a train from Ballina to Galway would require two pax changes 1. at Claremorris Region Hub and 2 at Athnenry to catch the 200KPH high speed shuttle into the city?

    No, services are as follows:

    Ballina to GY, no changes, train starts in Ballina, ends in GY

    That train crosses the Westport-DUB train Claremorris, allowing interchange.

    So a pax from Westport wanting to go to GY would have to change from DUB train onto GY train at Claremorris.



    I hope I was clear, Four possible services are

    (1) Westport - DUB, this is the existing service that would connect with the new WRC at Claremorris
    (2) Ballina - GY, this is the current shuttle that becomes a new service from Ballina to GY city
    (3) GY - LK, this is the existing WRC service
    (4) local stopping trains on doubled track GY to Athenry - this is to supplement the regional trains in (2) and (3)


    I am not an expert on diagramming trains, I welcome comments.

    GY-DUB trains would all stop in Athenry.
    GY-DUB would no longer stop in Oranmore?

    Frequencies:

    1tph from Ballina to GY
    Maybe an extra 1tph from Tuam to GY?
    Then maybe those 2tph from Tuam-Athenry-GY plus LK-GY 1tph means no need for extra local stopper GY to Athenry?


  • #2358
    MayoForSam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,307 ✭✭✭MayoForSam


    Geuze wrote: »
    Frequencies:

    1tph from Ballina to GY

    Are you expecting all those Hong Kong people that Boris invited yesterday to become citizens to somehow pitch up around Killala Bay - because that would be on the only way you could generate a business case for 1 train per hour from Ballina to Galway? Or maybe Atlantis or Tir Na Nog will suddenly reappear from the waves and demand a train service from North Connacht?

    I used to commute from Tuam to Ballina every day until Covid-19 changed everything. Now I am quite happily working from home, as are many other of my colleagues. I foresee the need for long distance commuting decreasing significantly in future due to WFH suddenly becoming possible (I was even able to upgrade my broadband to a 50 meg connection recently and I'm living in the sticks).

    WFH will potentially reduce the need for significant expenditure on public transport infrastructure (in low population areas) offering a much better quality of life as well as being much better for the environment. And the government won't have a penny to spend anyway on infrastructure for the next 10-15 years due to the cost of the pandemic.

    Tourists will much prefer to follow the coastal route (or maybe cycle along a greenway through inland Connacht which I'm quite fond of myself?).


  • #2359
    Isambard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,775 ✭✭✭Isambard


    the trains won't cross in Claremorris, in practice one of them will be held there whilst the other enters the section and travels there. The trains ex Westport and ex-Ballina would be travelling the same section in the same direction from Manulla Junc to Claremorrris. Single lines are quite restirctive.


  • #2360
    TCDStudent1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,019 ✭✭✭TCDStudent1


    MayoForSam wrote: »
    Are you expecting all those Hong Kong people that Boris invited yesterday to become citizens to somehow pitch up around Killala Bay - because that would be on the only way you could generate a business case for 1 train per hour from Ballina to Galway? Or maybe Atlantis or Tir Na Nog will suddenly reappear from the waves and demand a train service from North Connacht?

    I used to commute from Tuam to Ballina every day until Covid-19 changed everything. Now I am quite happily working from home, as are many other of my colleagues. I foresee the need for long distance commuting decreasing significantly in future due to WFH suddenly becoming possible (I was even able to upgrade my broadband to a 50 meg connection recently and I'm living in the sticks).

    WFH will potentially reduce the need for significant expenditure on public transport infrastructure (in low population areas) offering a much better quality of life as well as being much better for the environment. And the government won't have a penny to spend anyway on infrastructure for the next 10-15 years due to the cost of the pandemic.

    Tourists will much prefer to follow the coastal route (or maybe cycle along a greenway through inland Connacht which I'm quite fond of myself?).


    I'm reading a lot about shared work spaces on that topic. I know I would love to go into a shared work space in my locality instead of commuting into Galway city every day.


  • #2361
    serfboard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,708 ✭✭✭serfboard


    MayoForSam wrote: »
    I used to commute from Tuam to Ballina every day until Covid-19 changed everything. Now I am quite happily working from home, as are many other of my colleagues. I foresee the need for long distance commuting decreasing significantly in future due to WFH suddenly becoming possible (I was even able to upgrade my broadband to a 50 meg connection recently and I'm living in the sticks).

    WFH will potentially reduce the need for significant expenditure on public transport infrastructure (in low population areas) offering a much better quality of life as well as being much better for the environment.
    Whatever imaginary demand there might have been for rail-based commuting from Tuam to Galway, which was not served by the 40 buses per day currently serving the route, will be obliterated by more WFH. Particularly now given that more and more County Galway towns and villages have fibre broadband.


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  • #2362
    ezstreet5
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 356 ✭✭ezstreet5


    serfboard wrote: »
    Whatever imaginary demand there might have been for rail-based commuting from Tuam to Galway, which was not served by the 40 buses per day currently serving the route, will be obliterated by more WFH. Particularly now given that more and more County Galway towns and villages have fibre broadband.

    I suppose the concept is to mode-shift some of the passengers on those 40 busses per day, and more importantly, those from Tuam and Claremorris still commuting by car, to a train service. Whacky stuff!


  • #2363
    Sligo eye
    Closed Accounts Posts: 168 ✭✭Sligo eye


    ezstreet5 wrote: »
    I suppose the concept is to mode-shift some of the passengers on those 40 busses per day, and more importantly, those from Tuam and Claremorris still commuting by car, to a train service. Whacky stuff!

    It’s mad Ted.


  • #2364
    Muckyboots
    Closed Accounts Posts: 652 ✭✭✭Muckyboots


    ezstreet5 wrote: »
    I suppose the concept is to mode-shift some of the passengers on those 40 busses per day,

    Why?


  • #2365
    Sligo eye
    Closed Accounts Posts: 168 ✭✭Sligo eye


    Muckyboots wrote: »
    Why?

    And don’t forget the modal shift out of private cars. Rail drives that far more than buses.


  • #2366
    donvito99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    Sligo eye wrote: »
    And don’t forget the modal shift out of private cars. Rail drives that far more than buses.

    Has the WRC between Ennis and Athenry actually done that though, moved people in a significant way away from cars?

    Ultimately it is decent public transport - convenient, frequent, reliable, reasonably priced, fast - that will draw people from their cars, not just 'rail'.


  • #2367
    Sligo eye
    Closed Accounts Posts: 168 ✭✭Sligo eye


    donvito99 wrote: »
    Has the WRC between Ennis and Athenry actually done that though, moved people in a significant way away from cars?

    Ultimately it is decent public transport - convenient, frequent, reliable, reasonably priced, fast - that will draw people from their cars, not just 'rail'.

    Far more so than the anti rail propagandists will admit. The numbers on Galway-Limerick are now over 500,000 per year. What’s needed is more rolling stock and the political will to actually fund the railway properly.


  • #2368
    Muckyboots
    Closed Accounts Posts: 652 ✭✭✭Muckyboots


    Sligo eye wrote: »
    And don’t forget the modal shift out of private cars. Rail drives that far more than buses.

    Doesn't answer my question - "Why?" would you want to "shift" some of the people using the 40 buses a day to an alternative public transport mode ?


  • #2369
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,273 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    Sligo eye wrote: »
    Far more so than the anti rail propagandists will admit. The numbers on Galway-Limerick are now over 500,000 per year. What’s needed is more rolling stock and the political will to actually fund the railway properly.

    Ah here, that's only 10,000 passengers a week. Next thing you'll be saying that people are actually travelling on trains between and beyond Ennis and Athenry...

    http://www.vistacon.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/4_Rail-Strategy.pdf


  • #2370
    Ireland trains
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 442 ✭✭Ireland trains


    Losty Dublin wrote: »
    Ah here, that's only 10,000 passengers a week. Next thing you'll be saying that people are actually travelling on trains between and beyond Ennis and Athenry...

    http://www.vistacon.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/4_Rail-Strategy.pdf
    Last time I used a Galway - Limerick service, which I boarded at Ennis at around midday on a Friday, it was over 90% full arriving into ennis and there were lots of people standing leaving ennis. Train was a 2 car 2800 DMU.
    Of course this is not representative of all trains on the line.


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  • #2371
    JJJackal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭JJJackal


    Ultimately before an extended WRC is bulit surely faster trainers from galway to Dublin and galway to Limerick and a better connection to Cork are the way to go?


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