Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

So if your post is true has done even better despite all this he still got elected! As for the jealously part.
Do you not think your own post sounds a bit envious/jealous? Trying to take the Trump's down a notch or two. To make yourself feel better about the scenario of Trump leading the most powerful nation on earth?

Yes, he promised everything, he promised change and delivered on nothing.
The people will decide if he’s delivered in November.
I pity him, nothing more.

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gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I am sure if he had, it would have being routed out long ago?

It has been. Repeatedly. He has used illegal immigrants everywhere from polish construction workers to staff across his golfing resorts. His supporters do not care.

I mean Trump is living the dream an 'anti establishment' billionaire now POTUS married a supermodel 24 years his junior.

Granted, he had a comfortable upbringing. But despite all the gaffes (weird photo ops with bibles and pussy grabbing statements) along the way he has shown his innate ability to speak to the electorate. Enough to get him in power.
He has not threatened global domination like Hitler/Stalin - like many have compared him to. Instead he favours isolationist polices for America.

If by comfortable' you mean 'had hundreds of millions of dollars', I suppose. But he has, repeatedly, threatened military action against a number of nations including some very suspect goings on around Iran in particular, while massively ramping up the drones trikes etc that his supporters claimed to be so adamantly opposed to back in 2016. Again, they do not care.

To call him 'isolationist' is absolutely false, and given how prevalent the above has been in the news over his presidency I'm struggling to believe you could believe it yourself.

I think when it comes down to it many virulent anti-Trump people still just can't believe he got elected. But if thier side were half as clued in to thier electorate as Trump is. They would have got elected instead.

I think what it has a lot more to do do with is Trump supporters holding serious double standards, issues with honesty, and valuing the signalling of their loyalties to Trump and the cult like following the likes of Cambridge Analytica have built around him. Hence why things they claim to care about, once Trump dies them, they no longer care in the least about. And hence why so many ex staff, including people Trump hired himself and whom are long time republicans, have called him out on such a littanynof issues too, Mattias yesterday being just the latest.

Also, I think a lot of it is jealously looking at a slightly overweight awkward 70 plus fella with an odd hairstyle, but is worth billions. Married to a former supermodel. And all this on the back of not being a flowery orator at all.

If he has an ego at this stage I think he is entitled to it!

I wouldn't attribute disgust at policies like separating children from their parents to put them in concentration camps, stripping sick Americans of their healthcare t ogive tax cuts to billionaires, or calling for military action against your own citizens 'jealousy', and frankly if that is what you amount it to, it says an awful lot about your values or lack thereof.

Naturally this old rally clip is coming back around timely for a haunt of current events. Perhaps we will see this in a large number of campaign ads.


Trump mocks police brutality victims pleading “I can’t breathe”

https://twitter.com/junotheson/status/1267325223264649216?s=21

Carfacemandog wrote: »

The fact that you need to defend yourself with a straw man saysa lot. At no point did I say you voted for Trump, nor that you even had the capacity to vote inthe US election. What I said was that if you amount issues with policies like those I pointed out to simply jealousy, it says a lot about your values.

Man of straw argument?

Surely you have done exactly that by bringing up 'values'.
But since you want to labour on the point this is exactly the problem with the anti-Trump brigade. They are smug and view anyone who does not think exactly like them or voted Trump as having 'no values'.

The fact is, you did amount the issues that as you put them, "virulent anti-Trump people" have with him to, and I am quoting you here, "a lot of it is jealously" over his inherited wealth and his wife.

If you are going to make a frankly stupid argument like that, at least try to defend the points you made and not something else entirely.

That is just my opinion. Because a lot people who belittle Trump view themselves as more intelligent and cultured than him. Yet he landed the top job in America. Played the game and won. Arguably one of the greatest upsets in the history of American politics.

The majority of Americans do want universal public healthcare, time and again polls show this. The main problems they have with it are centered around fear mongering that it have to mean abolishing private healthcare (which a town here in Ireland can tell you it doesn't) and a slavish, cult like adherence to their political party. This is why approval for the ACA routinely ranks much higher than approval for "Obamacare" (which is literally just a nickname for the ACA).

Rubbish if the majority of Americans wanted universal public healthcare, it would change fairly sharpish. They don't simple as that.

When you have as poor an education system as so much of the US does (national averages in different areas such as maths, and literacy dropping from 5-10th in the world 20 years ago to 30th-40th today), it's in redobly easy to get them to vote against what they explicitly say they want - in this case, better and universal public healthcare.

So now you are calling the American electorate thick, and not as smart as you are? It brings me nicely back to my initial point on smugness. Your post has gone full circle.

rossie1977 wrote: »

60% of Americans say healthcare is government responsibly so that's majority https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/10/03/most-continue-to-say-ensuring-health-care-coverage-is-governments-responsibility/

It wouldn't matter if 100% wanted it because as long as the Republicans and some Democrats are getting huge donations from giant corporations and mega rich individuals opposed to universal health care it will never happen. It's not the people that have the final say, it's Mitch McConnell and the like.. same with gun control. As long as the NRA have bought and paid for every Republican politician and some Democrats nothing will be done to stop the blight of mass shootings in the US.

It is much cheaper to buy a congressman or senator then it is to run for office yourself. Koch brothers and the likes learned this years ago.

Overheal wrote: »

Naturally this old rally clip is coming back around timely for a haunt of current events. Perhaps we will see this in a large number of campaign ads.


Trump mocks police brutality victims pleading “I can’t breathe”

That's horrific and disturbing, esp. the way it loops.

timsey tiger wrote: »

Trump mocks police brutality victims pleading “I can’t breathe”

That's horrific and disturbing, esp. the way it loops.

I think the full clip shows he was mocking Bloomberg from during one of the debates.

Edit: https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-trump-cantbreathe/fact-check-trump-was-mocking-bloomberg-not-floyd-in-i-cant-breathe-clip-idUSKBN23A2XA

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Man of straw argument?

Surely you have done exactly that by bringing up 'values'.
But since you want to labour on the point this is exactly the problem with the anti-Trump brigade. They are smug and view anyone who does not think exactly like them or voted Trump as having 'no values'.

You need to look up what a straw man is, my pointing out your lack of morals if you are willing to overlook some of the awful things Trump has done and write them off as merely 'jealousy' from his detractors is not what a straw man is.

You responding by claiming I accused you of voting for Trump rather than addressing the points made, that is a straw man.

"A straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent."

I have yet to be convinced by anyone that separating children from their parents to put them in concentration camps, that removing healthcare from Americans to give billionaires a tax cut, or that pushing to use the military against your own populace can in any way be viewed as having good values or morals. In no small part this is because rarely do they actually defend these, and so frequently are just happy to just ignore the facts.

That is just my opinion. Because a lot people who belittle Trump view themselves as more intelligent and cultured than him. Yet he landed the top job in America. Played the game and won. Arguably one of the greatest upsets in the history of American politics.

You seem to be ignoring the facts which I have given to you. You can continue to ignore the border camp child separation issues, the healthcare issues and billionaire tax cuts, the fobbing off of the biggest global pandemic in a century as a 'Democrat hoax', the calls for armed "liberation" of states a few weeks go and eagerness to deploy the military on his own citizens in contrast over this past week when he disagreed with the cause, and on and on the list goes.

But when you do and instead try to paint it as 'jealousy' you're really not being very convincing - at all. It just shows a complete inability and unwillingness to tackle the clear and obvious reasons for disapproval of him that have been laid right in front of you; a wilful attempt to ignore the facts.

Rubbish if the majority of Americans wanted universal public healthcare, it would change fairly sharpish. They don't simple as that.

Others have already pointed out to you that this is indeed the case.

So now you are calling the American electorate thick, and not as smart as you are? It brings me nicely back to my initial point on smugness. Your post has gone full circle.

You can try to draw an emotive argument out of this all you like, but the fact is that the US has nosedived in its world rankings compared to where it was in the past when it comes to quality of education. Not being adequately educated doesn't make someone 'thick', but it certainly does by definition make them under informed and lacking knowledge. And the US has become the poster nation for that in the western, supposedly developed, world.

As the saying Republicans are so fond of goes, "facts don't care about your feelings" - https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/02/15/u-s-students-internationally-math-science/



What is particularly worrying about the above is that there is no denying the US has some of the very, very best schools in the world (for the wealthy, of course) bringing up the average significantly, meaning many of the poorer rural and inner city schools are considerably worse than even those rankings would make out.

peddlelies wrote: »

I'm sure those gender studies courses etc based on pure pseudo science are shooting the mathematics scores right up too. If anything they're producing a healthy dose of anarchists.

Maybe so, but I couldn't give a fiddlers about them. The poster posted an infographic which specifically pertained to (among other subjects) science. The infographic is from surveys done on high school kids. Science is a core subject at high school. Gender studies is not. There is at least one state which puts a disclaimer in science books regarding evolution, thus undermining science.

Have you anything to say about that, or are you going to continue with your straw man?

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

That is just projection and a nice soundbite 'because they knew'.
You could easily argue the opposite Trump supporters voted for Trump 'because they knew'. He aligned with what the electorate wanted.
Similar to how Danny Healey Rae gets slagged off everywhere outside Kerry.
He has made his views perfectly clear and got elected.

I mean Trump may act like an eejit and sound like an eejit a lot of the time but he engages with his electorate. That is what any politician does.

But you cannot deny that there has been a lot of twisting of Trumps statements for example. His comments on the wall and Mexicans. Many in the anti Trump camp say he is anti_Mexican and called them all rapists. He did not. He said that it was not the best and brightest that was getting into America. It was the murderers and rapists.

It is all about projection on who said a comment.

And if that does not suit the narrative the comment is changed.

Trump surrogates spent all of the 2016 election cycle saying that Trump wasn't being literal when he spoke about things, be it the wall, be it religious travel ban, be it gutting agencies/guardrails.

They dont have that luxury in 2020 as everyone has seen his record. The moderate republicans and independents now know exactly what they are voting for

Foxtrol wrote: »

Trump surrogates spent all of the 2016 election cycle saying that Trump wasn't being literal when he spoke about things, be it the wall, be it religious travel ban, be it gutting agencies/guardrails.

They dont have that luxury in 2020 as everyone has seen his record. The moderate republicans and independents now know exactly what they are voting for

He is building a wall though, they are finally right, but it is around the White House, more wall going around there today than on the boarder. Once again, imagine if Obama did that, they would have to do cpr on the likes of Laura Ingram and Limbaugh. Seen some on twitter post it is great symbolism for the end of his presidency, ranting from a bunker in the dark surround by a massive wall.

Foxtrol wrote: »

I feel dirty going agreeing with the other poster but those poll numbers don't hold up when you dig in.

As a concept national health care has broad support in polls but it falls away when you bring in the realities of it, lose their current healthcare plan, lose your current doctor, have to wait longer for treatment.

Like most things, the population want all the positives but dont want to give up anything

The polling numbers are there to show that the majority of Americans are in favour of universal healthcare. The majority of Americans are also opposed to eliminating private healthcare, but having one doesn't mean having to have the other, hence why they support the former while opposing the latter.