Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IV - Read OP for Mod Warnings

lukas8888 · 03-06-2020 12:55AM

TheCitizen wrote: »

Yep we're entirely fúcked if the likes of Brown Thomas takes over the show:pac:. The government such as it is need to start leading here.

What about Tesco, Dunnes, Marks etc not happy selling groceries and making windfall profits since lockdown, they all opened homeware clothing electrical departments without a word of protest from government.Tesco going as far as having a 50% clothes sale. with big queues forming..Brown Thomas are fully entitled to open as should all other clothing shops.Goose and Gander springs to mind.

end of the road · 03-06-2020 12:56AM

SusieBlue wrote: »

Nah I completely disagree. These are only guidelines not laws, if they can open with precautions in place and new operating procedures to ensure safety then more power to them.
Might get a few of the 1.1 million people currently signing on off the live register which can only be a good, positive thing.

They are forcing businesses into a financial suicide mission by forcing them to stay closed for another month (and longer) having been closed for almost three months already, meanwhile Leo gave the nod of approval to the mass gathering of thousands at the protest yesterday.
The government are talking out both sides of their mouth and business owners can see right through it.

If I could afford to go in and support their efforts I would but unfortunately having lost my job I’m in no position to do so.
Hopefully others will be able to spend in there so some money can be pumped into the local economy.

the protests were condemned at government level.
the government did what you wanted them to do, leo's personal opinion justifies nothing, whether some business owners see through some mythical nonsense justifies nothing either.
non-essential businesses had to be closed as part of the restrictions, it was unavoidable, closing them means an incentive to only go out for essential journeys.
the government aren't forcing businesses into anything, their business isn't viable because due to current restrictions which were and are for a small bit still necessary, there isn't demand for them. unfortunate, but things are opening up on a fazed and responsible manner which would have been speeded up anyway.
guidelines or not, i would expect that if these businesses could have shown they could reopen with new operating procedures in place then they would have been included in earlier fazes.
after all, they would have been able to make representations to the government.
why weren't they included as part of earlier fazes? well, i would suggest it's probably obvious as to why.

Dante7 · 03-06-2020 01:01AM

Grab All Association wrote: »

https://twitter.com/thatguy3002/status/1267948323643830279?s=21

It’ll be the same here because of those ******* idiots that went out protesting Monday. These are the same people who called for Gardai to arrest the other Gemtrails idiots outside the four courts.

That looks like an increase in testing and a marginal increase in positive tests. There's no definite conclusion to be drawn from that data.

jluv · 03-06-2020 01:06AM

SusieBlue wrote: »

Reopening isn’t mandatory, regardless of when we allow businesses to do so.
If any hairdressers and barbers still think it’s too risky they are under no obligation to start taking appointments.
Most of the ones I know have plans in place since late March and full waiting lists and are now raring to get back going.
They shouldn’t all be prevented from doing so just because a small phantom minority of them might still have concerns.

Equally, going to the hairdressers won’t be compulsory for the general public so those who are risk averse won’t be effected.
I myself will be back in the chair at the earliest opportunity possible, I have a deposit paid and appointment booked for over 2 months now.

SusieBlue I'm not in disagreement with you at all! When hairdressers are allowed open, sooner rather than later, great!
I just felt that the black market people who accepted the 350 pandemic payment and earned did a disrespect to the people/employees who took the hit. Most and almost all are planning to put proper plans in place to get back to work. .I will support them 100%. But not the black market people and around here we know who they are..

end of the road · 03-06-2020 01:06AM

SusieBlue wrote: »

Reopening isn’t mandatory, regardless of when we allow businesses to do so.
If any hairdressers and barbers still think it’s too risky they are under no obligation to start taking appointments.
Most of the ones I know have plans in place since late March and full waiting lists and are now raring to get back going.
They shouldn’t all be prevented from doing so just because a small phantom minority of them might still have concerns.

Equally, going to the hairdressers won’t be compulsory for the general public so those who are risk averse won’t be effected.
I myself will be back in the chair at the earliest opportunity possible, I have a deposit paid and appointment booked for over 2 months now.

they are not being prevented from going back because a minority may have concerns, they are prevented from going back because they have been deemed non-essential businesses, as in you won't die or starve if you don't access them.

greensheep777 · 03-06-2020 01:07AM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Its like people arriving just want to get Tony mad

A third of arrivals in Ireland are not answering phone for self-isolation checks
Over 6,000 Irish people have returned from abroad since start of pandemic

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/a-third-of-arrivals-in-ireland-are-not-answering-phone-for-self-isolation-checks-1.4268936

In theory i appreciate how some may think we are "rushing" and want to open up too quickly, but in reality covid just passes through our airport day in day out. To wait for it disappear while haemorrhaging the exchequer is too foolish at this stage.

I don't understand why they can't just stick all arrivals in a hotel like Australia were doing, test them on arrival and then again a few days later. Let them go if both are negative. That's gonna catch the majority of cases. But no, blanket quarantine for 100% of people when only about 2% test positive.

giveitholly wrote: »

Wife managed to get a hairdresser to call to the house on Friday,going to do my mother's hair as well,the longer these restrictions stay in place the more the black market will thrive

I went to the hairdresser here in Germany a few weeks ago and was there a few hours. Had to book online weeks ahead of time to get a spot. They kept big distance between other customers (nobody was in the chair beside me at any point) and hairdresser wore a mask and gloves. I had a mask on. Asked to sanitise hands on arrival and exit. I appear to still be alive and so is probably 99.99999% of other people who went.

road_high wrote: »

And what will change on the 20th July? Does the virus disappear on the 19th?

July the 19th. Why does that date strike me as important??? :pac:

SusieBlue · 03-06-2020 01:10AM

end of the road wrote: »

the protests were condemned at government level.
the government did what you wanted them to do, leo's personal opinion justifies nothing, whether some business owners see through some mythical nonsense justifies nothing either.
non-essential businesses had to be closed as part of the restrictions, it was unavoidable, closing them means an incentive to only go out for essential journeys.
the government aren't forcing businesses into anything, their business isn't viable because due to current restrictions which were and are for a small bit still necessary, there isn't demand for them. unfortunate, but things are opening up on a fazed and responsible manner which would have been speeded up anyway.
guidelines or not, i would expect that if these businesses could have shown they could reopen with new operating procedures in place then they would have been included in earlier fazes.
after all, they would have been able to make representations to the government.
why weren't they included as part of earlier fazes? well, i would suggest it's probably obvious as to why.

The government aren’t forcing businesses to do anything? Did you really just say that?
If the government didn’t force them to do anything why did any of them even close in the first place, because it wasn’t out of the goodness of their hearts?

There is huge demand for all of these things.
My hair dresser has 3 months of appointments booked and deposits taken for when she reopens.
My nail lady’s waiting list is completely full to the point where she can’t take on any more new clients.

People still need clothes, particularly with the recent hot weather, and the need for homeware and furniture never reduced.
I know one person who moved into a new house in March who still has no furniture because none of the shops are open and she isn’t spending thousands online on items she can’t even see in person.
Demand didn’t go away just because the supply was cut off and you are talking absolute blasphemy saying being shut for 5 months is a ‘short time’, that’s an extremely long time for a person to be out of work and for the public to be without a service.
Ordering online isn’t an option for everyone and it does nothing to support local jobs and the local economy.

Dunnes and Tesco have been selling homeware, clothing and other miscellaneous items that are ‘non essential’ for the last 6 weeks or so.
It’s highly unfair that they have been selling these goods all along while other shops were forced to remain shut.

You are under no obligation to give them your business, other people can judge the risk for themselves and make their own minds up. If I had the money I’d be in there.

SusieBlue · 03-06-2020 01:13AM

end of the road wrote: »

they are not being prevented from going back because a minority may have concerns, they are prevented from going back because they have been deemed non-essential businesses, as in you won't die or starve if you don't access them.

You won’t die or starve without many services but without those people working those jobs we would have millions permanently on social welfare and no tax coming in.
The tax these workers in ‘non essential’ jobs pay is used to fund hospitals and schools and other ‘essential’ services.

What was deemed to be unnecessary in mid March is needed now, the demand from the public hasn’t gone anywhere and the people in these jobs need to go back to work.
That’s the bottom line here. The longer we keep them closed the less chance there is of them reopening.

end of the road · 03-06-2020 01:32AM

SusieBlue wrote: »

The government aren’t forcing businesses to do anything? Did you really just say that?
If the government didn’t force them to do anything why did any of them even close in the first place, because it wasn’t out of the goodness of their hearts?

There is huge demand for all of these things.
My hair dresser has 3 months of appointments booked and deposits taken for when she reopens.
My nail lady’s waiting list is completely full to the point where she can’t take on any more new clients.

People still need clothes, particularly with the recent hot weather, and the need for homeware and furniture never reduced.
I know one person who moved into a new house in March who still has no furniture because none of the shops are open and she isn’t spending thousands online on items she can’t even see in person.
Demand didn’t go away just because the supply was cut off and you are talking absolute blasphemy saying being shut for 5 months is a ‘short time’, that’s an extremely long time for a person to be out of work and for the public to be without a service.
Ordering online isn’t an option for everyone and it does nothing to support local jobs and the local economy.

Dunnes and Tesco have been selling homeware, clothing and other miscellaneous items that are ‘non essential’ for the last 6 weeks or so.
It’s highly unfair that they have been selling these goods all along while other shops were forced to remain shut.

You are under no obligation to give them your business, other people can judge the risk for themselves and make their own minds up. If I had the money I’d be in there.

there will always be outliers in terms of what gets sold and by who, the system is perfectly fair as it allowed essential businesses to open with those which sell nothing essential told to close.
the non-essential businesses had time once the reopening timeline was announced to lobby and show they could reopen earlier, how many of them actually did that?
people can judge whatever once the restrictions are up, before that, they need to suck it up and comply like the rest of us have had to, the restrictions weren't brought in for the laugh or to annoy us.
like i said, we all want to get back to normality whether that be as before or something new as soon as is possible and want the restrictions gone as quick as is safe and possible to do so, but some of us realise that we don't just get to ignore them because they are inconvenient or because we don't like them or because we think the government is being a bit slow even though chances are the timeline would be speeded up because we actually seem to be doing well in terms of cases now.

end of the road · 03-06-2020 01:38AM

SusieBlue wrote: »

You won’t die or starve without many services but without those people working those jobs we would have millions permanently on social welfare and no tax coming in.
The tax these workers in ‘non essential’ jobs pay is used to fund hospitals and schools and other ‘essential’ services.

What was deemed to be unnecessary in mid March is needed now, the demand from the public hasn’t gone anywhere and the people in these jobs need to go back to work.
That’s the bottom line here. The longer we keep them closed the less chance there is of them reopening.

i am well aware of what tax is how it works and who pays it, i have to pay it myself.
what was deemed unnecessary in march is no more necessary now then it was then, they were necessary to bring in money, but their services were unnecessary until restrictions could be lifted, which they are being so.
people needed to be in work in mid march, however had they been allowed to be so and had there been no lockdown, then god knows how things would have turned out, i would expect not good at all, hence we implemented the restrictions.

mandrake04 · 03-06-2020 01:46AM

greensheep777 wrote: »

I don't understand why they can't just stick all arrivals in a hotel like Australia were doing, test them on arrival and then again a few days later. Let them go if both are negative. That's gonna catch the majority of cases. But no, blanket quarantine for 100% of people when only about 2% test positive.

the majority of the recent cases in Australia are actually travelers in Hotel quarantine, a few days might not be enough especially those with low viral loads you would need at least 7 days but might as well push it to 14 days to be safe.

Locking down only those travelling for 2 weeks is definitely preferable to locking down the entire population.

SusieBlue · 03-06-2020 01:50AM

end of the road wrote: »

there will always be outliers in terms of what gets sold and by who, the system is perfectly fair as it allowed essential businesses to open with those which sell nothing essential told to close.
the non-essential businesses had time once the reopening timeline was announced to lobby and show they could reopen earlier, how many of them actually did that?
people can judge whatever once the restrictions are up, before that, they need to suck it up and comply like the rest of us have had to, the restrictions weren't brought in for the laugh or to annoy us.
like i said, we all want to get back to normality whether that be as before or something new as soon as is possible and want the restrictions gone as quick as is safe and possible to do so, but some of us realise that we don't just get to ignore them because they are inconvenient or because we don't like them or because we think the government is being a bit slow even though chances are the timeline would be speeded up because we actually seem to be doing well in terms of cases now.

The system was completely unfair, Dunnes are selling goods that many other shops haven’t been allowed to and they’re getting away with it because they also sell food. That is in no way fair or acceptable.
Do you not watch the news? Off the top of my head the Irish Hairdressers Federation, IBEC, Vintners have all pleaded with the government to allow the business owners they represent to be included in earlier phases and their pleas have fallen on deaf ears.

10 new daily cases does not justify 1.1 million people being out of work and over 21 weeks of restrictions and you won’t change my mind on that.
Compliance is over, the government have made an absolute mess of the roadmap and as expected the public are taking matters into their own hands and making their own risk assessment.
Again, not surprising when you consider they want to have society shut down for almost half a year.

SusieBlue · 03-06-2020 01:58AM

end of the road wrote: »

i am well aware of what tax is how it works and who pays it, i have to pay it myself.
what was deemed unnecessary in march is no more necessary now then it was then, they were necessary to bring in money, but their services were unnecessary until restrictions could be lifted, which they are being so.
people needed to be in work in mid march, however had they been allowed to be so and had there been no lockdown, then god knows how things would have turned out, i would expect not good at all, hence we implemented the restrictions.

No, EOTR, these services are not necessary for YOU right now, in your opinion.
That doesn’t mean other people don’t need them and are relying on them. They are necessary, for the public and for the people working in these jobs.
I’ll repeat it again, the demand has gone nowhere. The public are crying out for them.

Lockdown was necessary in mid March to flatten the curve to ensure the hospitals didn’t become overwhelmed, that was why it had so much public support then.
That doesn’t justify keeping things shut till August. That’s over 5 months, almost half a year of restrictions.
The curve has been flattened, we did what we set out to do long ago and yet we still have the most drawn out and conservative roadmap in the whole world.

The long term implications here are going to be astronomical. Not just the obvious ones like job losses and mental health issues, but missed cancer screenings, other preventable deaths, housing, missed education for children, the list goes on.
10 cases a day does not justify continuing this madness for one more day, let until continuing for 10 more weeks until August 10th.

Pete_Cavan · 03-06-2020 06:52AM

end of the road wrote: »

they have already grown balls and are reopening the economy.
and it will in all likely hood be sooner then the timeline of the fazes, but it will be on the basis of accurate information from actual experts

What is this "accurate information from actual experts" which is the basis for our easing of restrictions? There is absolutely nothing scientific about it, it is just a bunch of random dates which is not linked to data or hitting any targets.

Science is generally evidence based and there is evidence of other countries lifting restrictions and case numbers continuing to drop. It hasggone so well that they are ploughing on and lifting restrictions further. Switzerland is into its fourth week of bars/restaurants/hairdressers being open and they are opening public swimming pools next week. Why is this being ignored in favour of a drawn out timetable which has no basis in fact?

MickeyLeari · 03-06-2020 07:35AM

Arghus wrote: »

I'll answer as best I can. At the end of the day I'm just another yahoo on boards. I don't pretend to have all the answers.

I think our current plans to ease out to August are very conservative, but I don't really have a problem with them taking a slow and steady approach to begin with. It all depends on case numbers. Today's number of cases was very encouraging - if that becomes a trend there's no real justification for dragging things out until August. If things continue to improve I don't have a problem with them moving things forward. I think once a government is formed and if there's no uptick in cases, I think they'll have to move quicker.

I think the 2m requirement should be looked at, bearing in mind that some - but not all - countries don't require that same level of distancing. I'm not a zealot on any of these issues - I can change my mind depending on new information. There seems to be a lot of uncertainty about the science still - despite what has become, in the eyes of many, an accepted fact over the last few weeks:

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-52522460

We have to take a calculated risk. Is 2m safer than 1m - yes. But does it create too much of an onerous burden on businesses, hospitals etc,etc and on social activity that outweigh it's potential benefits? Perhaps it does. If the virus isn't circulating freely and spreading, but yet businesses can't function because of the 2m rule - then you have to be prepared to change that rule. A recommendation of 2m, rather than a hard and unflexible rule of 2m is probably the way to go.

Though, I do think there's some merit in the argument that if you tell people to stay 2 metres apart, rather than 1 metre - it means that in practice people make more of an effort to maintain social distancing. They may not necessarily keep the full 2 metres, but they keep some distance - once you say 1 metre that can mean in practice people don't really maintain any noticeable difference.

Yes, of course.

Yes, I do.

Anything is better - if it's a workable and safe plan - than a blanket ban. Correct me if wrong but there hasn't been a blanket travel ban on international travel either to on from Ireland - there's been a strong recommendation to avoid all unessential travel - but if there was a flight and you wanted to catch it, you could still catch it. Now, you may still have to quarantine when you arrive at your destination - but that isn't anything to do with the Irish authorities.

I agree with quarantine measures for incoming tourists - it should have been imposed sooner - but realistically I don't think it's going to continue for a great deal longer. There's a lot of pressure on government already to scrap it and I think they'll take the easy win in the next fortnight or so and get rid of it, or at least modify it. I think it's a bit of a red herring to be honest. Can you see massive numbers of people flying all around Europe this summer? And whatever about the rest of it, I don't think we should take our lead when it comes to public health measures on what most pleases Michael O' Leary's bank balance.

Yes, they have become increasingly erratic on the messaging. It doesn't help that the government is the last gasp of the previous one and I think all of the political players have been dragging their heels on purpose, hoping that shyte will blow over and then they can appear to ride to the rescue when all the hard work is over. There's been a willingness to hide behind NPHET and the DoH as time has gone on and to let them take the flack for every single unpalatable decision, even if they're only advising solely on the basis of public health - which is exactly what they are supposed to be doing - and ultimately decision making has to lie in the powers of the government.

Thanks. Appreciate your candour particularly on my last statement which is probably my biggest concern.

MickeyLeari · 03-06-2020 07:42AM

Beasty wrote: »

No idea what your point is. Like it or not they are our neighbours and the UK, including GB, is the one place we have difficulty detaching ourselves from physically.

Apologies - I was blunt. I am sick and tired of us constantly being compared and comparing ourselves to Britain. I know they are our near neighbours but for me fellow EU Member States such as France, Belgium, Denmark are far more relevant at this point in time. And specifically on this for good and bad reasons they are not one to benchmark against. Point made though on NI - the fact that NI is diverging from England is very positive.

MickeyLeari · 03-06-2020 07:44AM

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

What is this "accurate information from actual experts" which is the basis for our easing of restrictions? There is absolutely nothing scientific about it, it is just a bunch of random dates which is not linked to data or hitting any targets.

Science is generally evidence based and there is evidence of other countries lifting restrictions and case numbers continuing to drop. It hasggone so well that they are ploughing on and lifting restrictions further. Switzerland is into its fourth week of bars/restaurants/hairdressers being open and they are opening public swimming pools next week. Why is this being ignored in favour of a drawn out timetable which has no basis in fact?

I agree. It seems the rationale for every three weeks is that it allows them to analyse the effects. Although even then it does not make a huge amount of sense.

The plan is too long and is incoherent. They have made a mess of this and lost people on Ikea and curtains.

Jayesdiem · 03-06-2020 07:46AM

fallen01angel wrote: »

Just curious to know who you heard from that clothes shops were going to have to "quarantine" trousers post after being tried on?
And let's be honest our lives have not changed forever......slightly ott comment.

Sarah McInerney’s show yesterday.

I hope you are correct, but I disagree. Many of these measures (1-2m between people, transparent screens everywhere, queues outside retail shops, muzzles in certain environments) are here to stay. I have no doubt about that.

MickeyLeari · 03-06-2020 07:52AM

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/in-six-months-we-will-be-in-the-grip-of-a-1980s-style-recession-1.4268947?mode=amp

Economically speaking, this is the quiet before the storm. In six months we will be in the grip of a 1980s-style recession in which about 300,000 workers will “permanently” lose their jobs. That’s not some dire warning from a Dracula economist, that’s the assessment of Minister for Finance Paschal Donohoe, who has been briefing party colleagues and potential coalition partners to that effect for several weeks. Thousands of consumer-facing businesses are also likely to go to the wall when the cost of not trading for several months combined with new social-distancing norms are brought to bear. Containing the virus has come at a hefty price and we’re about to pay it.

It’s not unreasonable, then, to ask whether we could have avoided such a wholesale shutdown of the economy. Particularly when we’re unlikely to deploy the same tactic again. A second wave will be dealt with via aggressive testing and tracing.

plodder · 03-06-2020 08:01AM

Same link as above ^

It seems like the current strategy is about getting cases down to zero and then hoping it stays there, which seems highly unlikely as cross border movements will inevitably bring it back. If the thing fizzles out anyway that's not a reason to stay in lockdown any longer either.

A majority might be in favour of this slow motion plan right now, but when the recession bites, they won't be.

Jayesdiem · 03-06-2020 08:07AM

plodder wrote: »

Same link as above ^

It seems like the current strategy is about getting cases down to zero and then hoping it stays there, which seems highly unlikely as cross border movements will inevitably bring it back. If the thing fizzles out anyway that's not a reason to stay in lockdown any longer either.

A majority might be in favour of this slow motion plan right now, but when the recession bites, they won't be.

Correct. It’s not being felt by anyone yet (other than SME owners) as the money flows in and the sun shines down. Christmas 2020 however, will not be pretty.

FintanMcluskey · 03-06-2020 08:11AM

Italy opened up today.

The brave men in charge in Ireland need a meeting to see can we extend the travel distance to 20km next week in Ireland.

Bizzare stuff

CruelSummer · 03-06-2020 08:11AM

If any of the content in this article is true, I’m beginning to think there’ll be no choice but to have another General Election. We have needed a new government for weeks.

https://m.independent.ie/opinion/comment/time-for-talks-is-over-nation-and-health-service-are-approaching-critical-condition-39255964.html

“On Friday, Mr Varadkar had another update about government formation. He said a "hard deadline" of the end of this month now exists. Actually, that deadline has always been there and known to negotiators. It is the timeframe by which legislation which underpins the Special Criminal Court needs to be renewed and legislation authorising financial support for business needs to be enacted.

Those involved in talks can't claim they were somehow caught on the hop. They just haven't cared enough about their imminent approach to speed up the discussions.

Remember, even if a deal is eventually brokered, it will take at least a further two weeks for the text to be voted on by party members and there are no guarantees it will pass muster - particularly as the Green Party, with impeccable timing, could be in the midst of a divisive leadership challenge.

Leaving the most contentious and complicated matters to the end of the negotiation means it will be much harder to convince any dubious party faithful of the necessity for compromise in the limited time they will have to consider the deal.”

Dontfadeaway · 03-06-2020 08:21AM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Italy opened up today.

The brave men in charge in Ireland need a meeting to see can we extend the travel distance to 20km next week in Ireland.

Bizzare stuff

And it’s still only essential trips you’ll be allowed to do within those 20km. Bit of a joke

03-06-2020 08:39AM

Dontfadeaway wrote: »

And it’s still only essential trips you’ll be allowed to do within those 20km. Bit of a joke

That's stupid. If we managed for the last 12 weeks on 2km and 5km for "essential trips", then we obviously dont need to go 20km for "essential trips"! Visiting vulnerable parents , dropping off food, sitting outside window was permissible anyway.

So the 20km shouldn't be flagged as "essential trips" but to give us back some freedom to do whatever the hell we like. It doesn't affect me anyway as I have gone further than 20km many times for the last few weeks. But for those following these restrictions to the letter of the law this is still restrictive. It also makes no sense anymore, our numbers are so low. I hope most people are just getting on with their own lives and trips now regardless................

average_runner · 03-06-2020 08:44AM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Italy opened up today.

The brave men in charge in Ireland need a meeting to see can we extend the travel distance to 20km next week in Ireland.

Bizzare stuff

But the countries around it are refusing to open their borders to Italy, that says everything.
Flights only into 3 cities. Europe doesn't believe they should open but Italy economy was in a bad place before this

MickeyLeari · 03-06-2020 08:46AM

CruelSummer wrote: »

If any of the content in this article is true, I’m beginning to think there’ll be no choice but to have another General Election. We have needed a new government for weeks.

https://m.independent.ie/opinion/comment/time-for-talks-is-over-nation-and-health-service-are-approaching-critical-condition-39255964.html

“On Friday, Mr Varadkar had another update about government formation. He said a "hard deadline" of the end of this month now exists. Actually, that deadline has always been there and known to negotiators. It is the timeframe by which legislation which underpins the Special Criminal Court needs to be renewed and legislation authorising financial support for business needs to be enacted.

Those involved in talks can't claim they were somehow caught on the hop. They just haven't cared enough about their imminent approach to speed up the discussions.

Remember, even if a deal is eventually brokered, it will take at least a further two weeks for the text to be voted on by party members and there are no guarantees it will pass muster - particularly as the Green Party, with impeccable timing, could be in the midst of a divisive leadership challenge.

Leaving the most contentious and complicated matters to the end of the negotiation means it will be much harder to convince any dubious party faithful of the necessity for compromise in the limited time they will have to consider the deal.”

I think he is looking at the polls and thinking he has a chance to lead a new FG Government.

prunudo · 03-06-2020 08:52AM

MickeyLeari wrote: »

I think he is looking at the polls and thinking he has a chance to lead a new FG Government.

If people think that he has handled the last month of this crisis well enough to be voted into government again they need their head examined.
He did well during the easy part of locking down but he's making a mess of the reopening.

average_runner · 03-06-2020 08:59AM

prunudo wrote: »

If people think that he has handled the last month of this crisis well enough to be voted into government again they need their head examined.
He did well during the easy part of locking down but he's making a mess of the reopening.

Maybe but we are behind spain, france,Italy, germany and many others on cases per million.

Cases went up last week a bit near the end, but if we can stay in double digits things will speed up.

prunudo · 03-06-2020 09:19AM

average_runner wrote: »

Maybe but we are behind spain, france,Italy, germany and many others on cases per million.

Cases went up last week a bit near the end, but if we can stay in double digits things will speed up.

As I've said before, until all countries use the same criteria for counting cases/deaths then comparisons are meaningless. I'd rather guage our preformance on how our hospitals and icu's are coping.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IV - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IV - Read OP for Mod Warnings