A 30 KPH limit for Dublin

double jobbing · 02-06-2020 9:08pm #1

I'm actually staggered reading this. 30km limits on ****ing dual carriageways like Malahide Rd.

https://www.rte.ie/news/dublin/2020/0602/1145036-dublin-speed-limit/

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/coronavirus-speed-limits-to-be-cut-to-30km-h-across-dublin-city-council-roads-1.4268992

RTE intimates it is temporary and related t COVID19 (which with any luck will be gone by new year) I.T seems to think more permanent.

Has anyone stopped to think that a person getting the first bus on some routes will effectively have to leave their cross town employment if a bus that used to maintain a 50kph is now put on a 30? Do they care this will now nearly double the commutes of people who use off peak services and who drive on same?

Do these people realise that with people glancing at the speedometer more often they are far more likely to have a collision? The increase in commuting times it will cause?

What are the end results of these public consultations, do a strong rebuke from the public actually make a difference?

I'm actually struggling to think how anybody can think 30kph on the Clontarf Rd is an acceptable scenario.

Surely they won't find enough concillors willing to pass this outside of the Green loopers. Do the Greens realise that in order to avoid these limits people will take to the M50 and burn more petrol doing longer journey's they normally would take through town?

I'm speechless.

2Mad2BeMad · 02-06-2020 9:10pm

double jobbing wrote: »

I'm actually staggered reading this. 30km limits on ****ing dual carriageways like Malahide Rd.

https://www.rte.ie/news/dublin/2020/0602/1145036-dublin-speed-limit/

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/coronavirus-speed-limits-to-be-cut-to-30km-h-across-dublin-city-council-roads-1.4268992

RTE intimates it is temporary and related t COVID19 (which with any luck will be gone by new year) I.T seems to think more permanent.

Has anyone stopped to think that a person getting the first bus on some routes will effectively have to leave their cross town employment if a bus that used to maintain a 50kph is now put on a 30? Do they care this will now nearly double the commutes of people who use off peak services and who drive on same?

Do these people realise that with people glancing at the speedometer more often they are far more likely to have a collision? The increase in commuting times it will cause?

What are the end results of these public consultations, do a strong rebuke from the public actually make a difference?

I'm actually struggling to think how anybody can think 30kph on the Clontarf Rd is an acceptable scenario.

Surely they won't find enough concillors willing to pass this outside of the Green loopers.

They are clearly not getting enough cash from catching people speeding.

ceadaoin. · 02-06-2020 9:10pm

Seems ridiculous and a bit drastic for a virus on its way out

double jobbing · 02-06-2020 9:13pm

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Seems ridiculous and a bit drastic for a virus on its way out

Been in the pipeline since last year, they're trying to attach it to it.

https://www.thejournal.ie/30km-zones-dublin-city-4914340-Dec2019/

How could any motorist on the council vote in favour of this?

Do they have to take notice of what will undoubtedtly be negative public submissions?

The damage this will cause to the local economy, to people's mental health by their commutes being nearly doubled, it's absolute insanity. I'd seriously consider moving to Fingal/ SDCC if this goes through.

double jobbing · 02-06-2020 9:18pm

2Mad2BeMad wrote: »

They are clearly not getting enough cash from catching people speeding.

With the taxi industry in crisis they want to put in measures that in some cases might double the fare. They want to put in place a system that effectively puts anyone who commutes cross city by public transport for an early start out of a job.

I actually can't believe what I'm reading. The article mentions dropping the N11 from 60 to 50km when it should be 100km as it stands. How in the **** has this got beyond the planning stage? Surely the council will vote it down before it even goes to public consultation?

Kermit.de.frog · 02-06-2020 9:20pm

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Seems ridiculous and a bit drastic for a virus on its way out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8-HDUBbtgQ

The 30 kph is totally daft and no one will be obeying that, rightfully.

double jobbing · 02-06-2020 9:23pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The 30 kph is totally daft and no one will be obeying that, rightfully.

Those of us already with points will have little choice.

Then again what's the point in having a licence if the joy of driving has been taken off us?

ceadaoin. · 02-06-2020 9:26pm

Thats how slow we have to drive through school zones here , which consist of a few hundred feet at certain times of the day only. Cant imagine having to go that slow on normal roads and for extended periods. Youd be constantly looking at the speedometer to check you werent going too fast.

suicide_circus · 02-06-2020 9:26pm

now i will say that during the period in which road traffic was at a minimum, the speeds some people were doing were insane.

suicide_circus · 02-06-2020 9:29pm

does anyone have a better resolution map of the areas involved so i can zoom in?

double jobbing · 02-06-2020 9:29pm

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Thats how slow we have to drive through school zones here , which consist of a few hundred feet at certain times of the day only. Cant imagine having to go that slow on normal roads and for extended periods. Youd be constantly looking at the speedometer to check you werent going too fast.

Where is here?

To think the law is being brought in for the benefit of cyclists. The biggest bunch of rulebreaking ignorant no test no taxed ****ers on the road.

Staggered speed zones dependent on time, maybe. After all you'd do well to hit over 30kph in inner Dublin rush hour during normal times.

But driving down Malahide Rd at 30kph at 10pm?

Not to mention the Howth Rd will maintain its normal speed but the Clontarf Rd won't/ The congestion with people diverting off the CF in order to drive like someone who isn't 90 years old will be chronic.

Better Than Christ · 02-06-2020 9:35pm

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Youd be constantly looking at the speedometer to check you werent going too fast.

Anyone who isn't able to maintain a constant speed without constantly looking at the speedometer probably shouldn't be driving.

Sarn · 02-06-2020 9:35pm

DCC report

Go to the end of the report for the maps.

double jobbing · 02-06-2020 9:39pm

Better Than Christ wrote: »

Anyone who isn't able to maintain a constant speed without constantly looking at the speedometer probably shouldn't be driving.

30km is an unatural speed to maintain for any long period Grandad.

Seth Brundle · 02-06-2020 9:40pm

double jobbing wrote: »

I'm actually staggered reading this. 30km limits on ****ing dual carriageways like Malahide Rd.

How much of the Malahide Rd within Dublin city is dual carriageway?

double jobbing wrote: »

Has anyone stopped to think that a person getting the first bus on some routes will effectively have to leave their cross town employment if a bus that used to maintain a 50kph is now put on a 30? Do they care this will now nearly double the commutes of people who use off peak services and who drive on same?

Do these people realise that with people glancing at the speedometer more often they are far more likely to have a collision? The increase in commuting times it will cause?

What are the end results of these public consultations, do a strong rebuke from the public actually make a difference?

I'm actually struggling to think how anybody can think 30kph on the Clontarf Rd is an acceptable scenario.

Surely they won't find enough concillors willing to pass this outside of the Green loopers. Do the Greens realise that in order to avoid these limits people will take to the M50 and burn more petrol doing longer journey's they normally would take through town?

In terms of the limit, why shouldn't vehicles drive at a speed appropriate to the fact that we've an unprecedented amount of vulnerable road users on our roads?
You're just pissed off because for once drivers will have to be careful of other road users and are coming to realise that no longer are they the most important road users.
As for the speedo stuff, that's crap (and I used to wrongly use it as an excuse also). If you don't have a good idea of your speed then stop driving.

double jobbing wrote: »

I'm speechless.

Given your spiel, you're obviously not speechless!

Del2005 · 02-06-2020 9:45pm

Better Than Christ wrote: »

Anyone who isn't able to maintain a constant speed without constantly looking at the speedometer probably shouldn't be driving.

Have you tried to maintain a speed of 30km/h? I can maintain 50 and 60 fairly well but 30 is a struggle as my car doesn't have gears, it's a CVT box, so I can get faster than that on idle. It feels unnaturally slow and I've been left for dead by cyclists when doing 30 in estates so yes I need to constantly check my speed to stay below 30, it would be better if cruise control could be engaged that low because then I could then give 100% concentration to the road instead of checking my speed.

Not that the 30km/h limit is even enforced, I've been behind Dublin Buses doing 50 down the Quays

double jobbing · 02-06-2020 9:47pm

Seth Brundle wrote: »

In terms of the limit, why shouldn't vehicles drive at a speed appropriate to the fact that we've an unprecedented amount of vulnerable road users on our roads?
You're just pissed off because for once drivers will have to be careful of other road users and are coming to realise that no longer are they the most important road users.!

You explain to me how driving faster than 30kph on a good sized road at an off peak hour is a danger to anybody.

The rest of your post was spoken like a true cyclist.

double jobbing · 02-06-2020 9:51pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin_City_Council#Current_councillors

Greens will be nailed on for this. SD wouldn't surprise me. Labour, maybe.

Surely there's enough councillors who won't vote against their own self interest. There are entire areas like Finglas that are 30km zones, surely any councillor knocking doors there in 4 years will know he's gone if he backs this?

Seth Brundle · 02-06-2020 9:53pm

double jobbing wrote: »

You explain to me how driving faster than 30kph on a good sized road at an off peak hour is a danger to anybody.

So are you proposing variable speed limits across the city?
Your post also implies that during peak hours the 30km/h speed limit is appropriate.

double jobbing wrote: »

The rest of your post was spoken like a true cyclist.

I drive (and for a long time was a mod of the motors forum here), I cycle, I use PT and I walk. Should I not have a voice or do you think your view is more important than others simply because you drive yet you can't provide an actual argument against the proposed measure beyond the usual "it's not fair" crap!

Collie D · 02-06-2020 9:54pm

double jobbing wrote: »

You explain to me how driving faster than 30kph on a good sized road at an off peak hour is a danger to anybody.

The rest of your post was spoken like a true cyclist.

Well the amount of ***** that turn left off Clare Hall Avenue onto the Malahide Road forgetting that there’s a filter light there for a start. Have lost count of the number of times someone has flown through the red there - almost been hit a couple of times.

Better Than Christ · 02-06-2020 9:56pm

double jobbing wrote: »

30km is an unatural speed to maintain for any long period Grandad.

In that case, it's easy - as soon as it stops feeling unnatural, you're going too fast and need to tap the middle pedal.

Del2005 wrote: »

Have you tried to maintain a speed of 30km/h? I can maintain 50 and 60 fairly well but 30 is a struggle as my car doesn't have gears, it's a CVT box, so I can get faster than that on idle.

My last car was a CVT automatic and it was perfectly easy to maintain 10, 20 or 30 in estates, supermarket car parks, etc. As long as you're able to concentrate and gauge your speed, it shouldn't be a problem.

double jobbing · 02-06-2020 9:57pm

Seth Brundle wrote: »

So are you proposing variable speed limits across the city?
Your post also implies that during peak hours the 30km/h speed limit is appropriate.

I drive (and for a long time was a mod of the motors forum here), I cycle, I use PT and I walk. Should I not have a voice or do you think your view is more important than others simply because you drive yet you can't provide an actual argument against the proposed measure beyond the usual "it's not fair" crap!

I await your rebuke of the economic costs of this nonsense. Cross city early bus commuters now out of a job. People unwilling to take taxis.

The ignorance of whoever drew up this garbage is staggering.

Corca Baiscinn · 02-06-2020 9:57pm

double jobbing wrote: »

I'm actually staggered reading this. 30km limits on ****ing dual carriageways like Malahide Rd.

https://www.rte.ie/news/dublin/2020/0602/1145036-dublin-speed-limit/

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/coronavirus-speed-limits-to-be-cut-to-30km-h-across-dublin-city-council-roads-1.4268992

Has anyone stopped to think that a person getting the first bus on some routes will effectively have to leave their cross town employment if a bus that used to maintain a 50kph is now put on a 30? Do they care this will now nearly double the commutes of people who use off peak services and who drive on same?

Do these people realise that with people glancing at the speedometer more often they are far more likely to have a collision? The increase in commuting times it will cause?

I'm actually struggling to think how anybody can think 30kph on the Clontarf Rd is an acceptable scenario.

I'm speechless.

30km/h is standard in a large number of European Cities and becoming more and more the default speed in UK urban areas and doubt all these municipalities are controlled by "green loopers"

Say your cross-town bus commute is 10 km, the difference between a speed of 30 km/h and a 50km/h speed will be 8 minutes. Many journeys in the DCC zone will be a less than 10 km.

DCC have said that with Covid 19 restrictions on P/T it expects the numbers of people walking to work to double and the number cycling to triple. Given that permanent infra to accommodate numbers like that can't be conjured up overnight (and would be foolish if issue is going to be a temp one) what's your solution to the issue of sharing space? Even supposing all p/t users have cars and drive instead of getting the bus the ensuing delays caused by congestion will amount to a lot more than 8 minutes.

A person struck by a car at 30 km/h has a 9 in 10 chance of surviving. At 50 km/h its 50:50.

ceadaoin. · 02-06-2020 9:58pm

Better Than Christ wrote: »

Anyone who isn't able to maintain a constant speed without constantly looking at the speedometer probably shouldn't be driving.

Not really. Ive no problem maintaing a constant speed in a normal speed zone but its an effort to maintain such a low speed. I drive an automatic and any pressure on the accelerator for more than 2 seconds would have it going faster than that. Very easy to unintentionally go faster, hence the need to monitor it.

double jobbing · 02-06-2020 10:01pm

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »

30km/h is standard in a large number of European Cities

So?

Say your cross-town bus commute is 10 km, the difference between a speed of 30 km/h and a 50km/h speed will be 8 minutes. Many journeys in the DCC zone will be a less than 10 km.

[/quote]

Good to know you have a spare 80 minutes per week/ 5 hours a month/ 4000 minutes a year you're doing nothing with.

A person struck by a car at 30 km/h has a 9 in 10 chance of surviving. At 50 km/h its 50:50.

A person struck by an oncoming car will often be the author of their own misfortune because they are too busy playing with the phone while wearing Beats headphones weaving in and out of traffic on their bike.

Seth Brundle · 02-06-2020 10:03pm

double jobbing wrote: »

I await your rebuke of the economic costs of this nonsense. Cross city early bus commuters now out of a job. People unwilling to take taxis.

The ignorance of whoever drew up this garbage is staggering.

What economic costs? Have you actual and verifiable examples of how there will be negative costs arising from the proposed change?
Or are you just whining about it and looking for possible excuses against it?

Better Than Christ · 02-06-2020 10:03pm

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Not really. Ive no problem maintaing a constant speed in a normal speed zone but its an effort to maintain such a low speed. I drive an automatic and any pressure on the accelerator for more than 2 seconds would have it going faster than that. Very easy to unintentionally go faster, hence the need to monitor it.

But... is it not possible to monitor your speed by observing how quickly the scenery is passing you? I mean, surely anyone with more than a couple of years of driving experience has developed the ability to judge their speed without their eyes being glued to the speedometer.

Seth Brundle · 02-06-2020 10:05pm

double jobbing wrote: »

A person struck by an oncoming car will often be the author of their own misfortune because they are too busy playing with the phone while wearing Beats headphones weaving in and out of traffic on their bike.

Have you a source for this because the evidence suggests it's more down to drivers speeding, using their phone, drink or drugs and other motoring offences?

thebaz · 02-06-2020 10:12pm

We really are a total Nanny state - 10 new cases today of a virus that has a mortality rate of at best 0.5 , and using this as the basis for a blanket 30 km speed limit - I cycle and at one time enjoyed driving before authirties took all joy out of driving , slow driving does not equate to good driving , in fact it can be dangerous , seen muppets on ther phone driving at around 20 km not knowing what they are doing . If we were really concerned about this virus we would tackle how to re-introduce DARTs/LUAS and buses safely , rather than this pathic nonsense of 30 km .

punisher5112 · 02-06-2020 10:13pm

Great my job is even worse from this, constantly watching the Speedo and not enough time to watch for morons stepping out without looking.

punisher5112 · 02-06-2020 10:16pm

Enforce laws we have already and fine those for stepping out or running lights.

Dublinstiofán · 02-06-2020 10:17pm

Idiotic idea as It’s for nothing but revenue generation. I saw the speed van for the last month outside Terenure Garda Station in the 50km/h zone to get people used to it being there and the 50km/h zone will shortly change to 30km/h with most people not having a clue about it and they’ll be able to give penalty points to thousands before they realise.

I’m all for 30km limit at appropriate times (7am-10am and 4pm-7pm) inside the boundary of the two canals but outside of those hours and city limits it should be at least 50km/h or whatever was deemed appropriate by Dublin City Council before Owen Keegan decided to shut the city down and allow for cyclists and public transport only.

It’s scandalous that they are using Covid-19 to do what Mr Keegan has pioneered for many years and he’s taking every opportunity to bring in permanent changes under the guise of temporary measures without consultation, which is disgraceful. He’ll try to get the Keegan Plaza outside Trinity too which was voted against by the general public by making it a cafe and restaurant hub for social distancing reasons.

Make sure you keep an eye on the DCC Consultation portal and have your say on it when the time comes, it will be up and down in no time as with most of the consultations.

Idleater · 02-06-2020 10:17pm

What are all these cvt vehicles without cruise control?

Ignoring that, the CV part of the transmission would infer that it is perfectly able to hold any speed.

Even an old manual Volvo will do cruise control at 30 giving you ample brain power to watch the road and hover over the brakes.

Naos · 02-06-2020 10:29pm

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Not really. Ive no problem maintaing a constant speed in a normal speed zone but its an effort to maintain such a low speed. I drive an automatic and any pressure on the accelerator for more than 2 seconds would have it going faster than that. Very easy to unintentionally go faster, hence the need to monitor it.

I'd say the reason you can maintain 50/60 no problem is because you've had to do it so frequently.

Bar an estate or past a school, you never usually go at 30 for more than a few 100 metres.

You'd get used to it.

thebaz · 02-06-2020 10:36pm

Dublinstiofán wrote: »

Idiotic idea as It’s for nothing but revenue generation. I saw the speed van for the last month outside Terenure Garda Station in the 50km/h zone to get people used to it being there and the 50km/h zone will shortly change to 30km with most people not having a clue about it and they’ll be able to give penalty points to thousands before they realise.

I’m all for 30km limit at appropriate times (7am-10am and 4pm-7pm) inside the boundary of the two canals but outside of those hours and city limits it should be at least 50km/h or whatever was deemed appropriate by Dublin City Council before Owen Keegan decided to shut the city down and allow for cyclists and public transport only.

It’s scandalous that they are using Covid-19 to do what Mr Keegan has pioneered for many years and he’s taking every opportunity to bring in permanent changes under the guise of temporary measures without consultation, which is disgraceful. He’ll try to get the Keegan Plaza outside Trinity too which was voted against by the general public by making it a cafe and restaurant hub for social distancing reasons.

Make sure you keep an eye on the DCC Consultation portal and have your say on it when the time comes, it will be up and down in no time as with most of the consultations.

Fully agree about Keegan - using Covid as an excuse to effectivly criipple driving (and I'm mainly a cyclist) , and implement his Dracoian authority as he did in Dun Laoghaire - he's a nasty piece of work , a Bully and some one needs to stand up to him.

Seth Brundle · 02-06-2020 10:38pm

thebaz wrote: »

Fully agree about Keegan - using Covid as an excuse to effectivly criipple driving (and I'm mainly a cyclist) , and implement his Dracoian authority as he did in Dun Laoghaire - he's a nasty piece of work , a Bully and some one needs to stand up to him.

Aah the old "he wrecked Dun Laoghaire" nonsense rears its incorrect head!

thebaz · 02-06-2020 10:44pm

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Aah the old "he wrecked Dun Laoghaire" nonsense rears its incorrect head!

Ask most people on the main street was he good for Dun Laoghaire so !!!
Most I know were glad to see the back of him - cars are a part of modern life - and Keegan has an anti car agenda - Fact

Charles Babbage · 02-06-2020 10:54pm

double jobbing wrote: »

I actually can't believe what I'm reading. The article mentions dropping the N11 from 60 to 50km when it should be 100km as it stands. How in the **** has this got beyond the planning stage? Surely the council will vote it down before it even goes to public consultation?

Is Dun Laoghaire -Rathdown involved, there isn't any of the N11 in Dublin any more? Do you mean the road outside RTÉ.

There is a sordid agenda here to use Covid against most people.

stevek93 · 02-06-2020 10:56pm

I can hit over 30kph on my push bike...

punisher5112 · 02-06-2020 10:56pm

Gardai are out in force doing speed checks everywhere especially now with their new toys.

They are on roads where speed limit drops especially off motorway.

Greens will have is all on push bikes

Seth Brundle · 02-06-2020 11:00pm

thebaz wrote: »

Ask most people on the main street was he good for Dun Laoghaire so !!!
Most I know were glad to see the back of him - cars are a part of modern life - and Keegan has an anti car agenda - Fact

What killed Dun Laoghaire was it's shape (long and straight) with an old and crap shopping centre that had no ability to match the likes of Dundrum.
But don't let facts get in the way of your agenda now :rolleyes:

Seth Brundle · 02-06-2020 11:02pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Gardai are out in force doing speed checks everywhere especially now with their new toys.

They are on roads where speed limit drops especially off motorway.

Greens will have is all on push bikes

The greens have no power yet you think they're behind all this? Jesus is the motoring lobby educated by Facebook these days?

Weepsie · 02-06-2020 11:03pm

double jobbing wrote: »

To think the law is being brought in for the benefit of cyclists. The biggest bunch of rulebreaking ignorant no test no taxed ****ers on the road.

.

The over 200,000 individuals with points on their licence would tell you who who he biggest bunch of rulebreakers are.

punisher5112 · 02-06-2020 11:04pm

Seth Brundle wrote: »

The greens have no power yet you think they're behind all this? Jesus is the motoring lobby educated by Facebook these days?

Honest they never left and have their hooks in....

I don't bother with Facebook.

Sick of the attack against the motorist all the time

magicbastarder · 02-06-2020 11:07pm

Del2005 wrote: »

Have you tried to maintain a speed of 30km/h? I can maintain 50 and 60 fairly well but 30 is a struggle as my car doesn't have gears, it's a CVT box, so I can get faster than that on idle.

You bought a car that struggles to maintain 30? Have you brought it back for a refund yet?
Insert 'they must have had big windows in the place you bought it' joke. How do you cope with heavy traffic?

Better Than Christ · 02-06-2020 11:08pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Greens will have is all on push bikes

Hopefully, but only if they make the roads safe enough for cycling. Which means improving cycling and public transport infrastructure and keeping as many private cars off the road as possible.

Seth Brundle · 02-06-2020 11:10pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Honest they never left and have their hooks in....

Where?
What hooks?
Christ almighty! :rolleyes:

punisher5112 wrote: »

Sick of the attack against the motorist all the time

There is actually no attack. It's simply decades of bad planning and transport deign being corrected to include all road users and not just people in cars. Motorists need to accept that the world doesn't revolve around them.
Nobody is trying to stop people driving. They're just trying to stop the preferential treatment that the most inefficient mode of transport within a city has been given.

I'd also like to point out that in nearly 50 posts in this thread, nobody has put forward a credible reason to retain the current speed limits!
Says quite a bit, to be honest!

magicbastarder · 02-06-2020 11:12pm

double jobbing wrote: »

Then again what's the point in having a licence if the joy of driving has been taken off us?

You need a new hobby if you describe driving up the malahide road as a joy.

thebaz · 02-06-2020 11:12pm

Seth Brundle wrote: »

What killed Dun Laoghaire was it's shape (long and straight) with an old and crap shopping centre that had no ability to match the likes of Dundrum.
But don't let facts get in the way of your agenda now :rolleyes:

Yeah its straight long main street killed Dun Laoghaire - What a load of nonsense -
but you are right, cause Moderators on boards are always right .

Better Than Christ · 02-06-2020 11:13pm

Seth Brundle wrote: »

I'd also like to point out that in nearly 50 posts in this thread, nobody has put forward a credible reason to retain the current speed limits!
Says quite a bit, to be honest!

Hang on, are you trying to tell us that "I don't know how to drive my own car" is not a credible reason?

Truthvader · 02-06-2020 11:17pm

Here we go again as Keegan continues his deluded war on the people of Dublin, If it moves; stop it. If it stops; clamp it. The usual Green Party cycling loons will be along any minute to cheer him on

A 30 KPH limit for Dublin

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