Pro14 Season 2019-2020

Interested Observer · 18-05-2020 8:47am

Burkie1203 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/ospreys/status/1260615767218946048?s=19

Hmm. If the Pro14 is going to continue in its current form, would be great to have another strong team in it. Anyone know who these people are or their track record?

Cookiemunster · 22-05-2020 11:03am

The CVC deal has been confirmed. They take a 28% stake and the FIR become a full member of Celtic Rugby.
https://www.pro14.rugby/latest/pro14/partnership-between-guinness-pro14-cvc-capital-partners-to-develop-the-league-for-the-benefit-of-its-fans-players-clubs-and-unions-in-key-rugby-nations

connachta · 22-05-2020 11:06am

Cookiemunster wrote: »

The CVC deal has been confirmed. They take a 28% stake and the FIR become a full member of Celtic Rugby.
https://www.pro14.rugby/latest/pro14/partnership-between-guinness-pro14-cvc-capital-partners-to-develop-the-league-for-the-benefit-of-its-fans-players-clubs-and-unions-in-key-rugby-nations

Good news in hard financial times
Opinions on long term?

El_Duderino 09 · 22-05-2020 11:56am

connachta wrote: »

Good news in hard financial times
Opinions on long term?

As an F1 fan I can tell you CVC are terrible for the long term. They don't give a shyte about the sport and the long term future. They put everything behingld a pay wall and the numbers of viewers drop. Not a big problem in the short term but if you think back to 1997/98 when every dog and divil had an opinion on f1 as it was on rte. Now it's a niche sport. That's the direction rugby will probably go. Six nations is the last free to air rugby and that will almost certainly go behind a pay wall.

CVC continue to make money as they charge Sky and the fan base diminishes which means the sport withers from the roots up.

They all get some money in the short term.

awec · 22-05-2020 11:57am

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

As an F1 fan I can tell you CVC are terrible for the long term. They don't give a shyte about the sport and the long term future. They put everything behingld a pay wall and the numbers of viewers drop. Not a big problem in the short term but if you think back to 1997/98 when every dog and divil had an opinion on f1 as it was on rte. Now it's a niche sport. That's the direction rugby will probably go. Six nations is the last free to air rugby and that will almost certainly go behind a pay wall.

CVC continue to make money as they charge Sky and the fan base diminishes which means the sport withers from the roots up.

They all get some money in the short term.

Sure the Pro14 have already thrown everything behind a paywall.

Bazzo · 22-05-2020 12:06pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

As an F1 fan I can tell you CVC are terrible for the long term. They don't give a shyte about the sport and the long term future. They put everything behingld a pay wall and the numbers of viewers drop. Not a big problem in the short term but if you think back to 1997/98 when every dog and divil had an opinion on f1 as it was on rte. Now it's a niche sport. That's the direction rugby will probably go. Six nations is the last free to air rugby and that will almost certainly go behind a pay wall.

CVC continue to make money as they charge Sky and the fan base diminishes which means the sport withers from the roots up.

They all get some money in the short term.

The pro14 is mostly already behind a paywall isn't it?

This has nothing to do with 6 nations (though CVC have shown interest there too)

Sir Guy who smiles · 22-05-2020 12:13pm

Bazzo wrote: »

The pro14 is mostly already behind a paywall isn't it?

This has nothing to do with 6 nations (though CVC have shown interest there too)

It shows CVC are continuing to move into rugby, so it is relevant to their potential involvement in the six nations.

El_Duderino 09 · 22-05-2020 12:13pm

Bazzo wrote: »

The pro14 is mostly already behind a paywall isn't it?

This has nothing to do with 6 nations (though CVC have shown interest there too)

Yeah but rugby in general and the provinces benefit from the interest and hype the general punter has for rugby which is generated during the annual six Nations. CVC will put that behind a paywall too. So it does matter.

Cookiemunster · 22-05-2020 1:48pm

Philip Browne says the CVC deal is worth £30m to Irish rugby paid over 3 years. £5m paid up front. He also confirms behind closed doors interpros at the Aviva on August 22/23.

connachta · 22-05-2020 2:56pm

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Philip Browne says the CVC deal is worth £30m to Irish rugby paid over 3 years. £5m paid up front. He also confirms behind closed doors interpros at the Aviva on August 22/23.

nice on both account!

Clegg · 22-05-2020 3:25pm

The CVC deal would only cover the losses the IRFU expect to make if the remainder of this season and next season is played behind closed doors.

thomond2006 · 27-05-2020 11:36am

Aled Davies just signed for Saracens on a three year deal. Rhys Webb is returning to Ospreys from Toulon so that pushes Davies out the door. Davies is now ruled out of Wales contention as he has only 20 caps.

Squidgy Black · 27-05-2020 11:56am

thomond2006 wrote: »

Aled Davies just signed for Saracens on a three year deal. Rhys Webb is returning to Ospreys from Toulon so that pushes Davies out the door. Davies is now ruled out of Wales contention as he has only 20 caps.

Probably means Wigglesworth is finished as he still hasn't gotten a new contract (and at 37 I'd say it'd be slim pickings) although with Spencer reportedly gone to Bath I wouldn't be completely surprised if he gets another deal.

irishbucsfan · 27-05-2020 12:27pm

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Probably means Wigglesworth is finished as he still hasn't gotten a new contract (and at 37 I'd say it'd be slim pickings) although with Spencer reportedly gone to Bath I wouldn't be completely surprised if he gets another deal.

Wigglesworth at 37 would still be one of the better 9s in the championship. If he’s happy to take a pay cut instead of retiring. He’ll have to survive on a salary plus a penthouse apartment instead of a salary plus a 4 bedroom detached house in Barnet.

Burkie1203 · 27-05-2020 1:03pm

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Philip Browne says the CVC deal is worth £30m to Irish rugby paid over 3 years. £5m paid up front. He also confirms behind closed doors interpros at the Aviva on August 22/23.

The 5m is just a drop in the ocean really. Leinster missing 2 paydays in the Aviva is approx €1.5m on top of over €3m in lost STH sales

Below are some of the comments from Browne last Friday. The games in August going ahead followed by a new season beginning in September is fairly critical. The CVC money is only going to cover some of the losses going by what Browne said. Browne was also quoted by one of the Journos saying players wages could be at risk along with wider squad budgets also getting squeezed. If I can find the exact quote I will post.

_______________________________________________

As things stand, the IRFU have incurred losses amounting to €7-10 million in the current financial year, which ends in April, according to Browne. “The loss of the Italian game to us directly was probably €3.5 to €4 million. In revenues from the Six Nations you could be talking another million or so for that particular match. Then the French match is a loss again of more revenue out of the central Six Nations pot. Certainly we’re looking at anything between €7 and €10 million.” Nor, he confirmed, are these losses covered by insurance.

The IRFU is deemed bigger than a small or medium business enterprise. “The big issue is cash, and we’re ‘the bank of last resort’ if you like for the provinces. We have a cash problem but equally the four provinces are going to have cash problems, some more substantial than others. So we have to think of them and we have to think of the clubs as well.”

So when does the Union’s cash flow problem become critical? “If this runs into next season then we’ve a real problem, and not only us but every other rugby Union has a real problem, along with the clubs in England and France.” “We need a clear line of sight as to when this can be resolved, and we need it quickly to be honest,” says Browne. “If it was going to start in September, well that’s fine, we’ve a clear line of sight and we can manage that. If we get to September and there’s still no clear line of sight well then we’ve got a problem.”

connachta · 30-05-2020 3:01pm

New-Zealand and Australia will move to a Pacific Cup as soon as TV rights allow the change..
And for us, it's great, same time-schedule, same fighting spirit
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/south-africas-best-players-teams-18331953

18 teams
2 balanced pool of 9
16 games (all home and away, so FAIR) in regular season
Then, Play-offs and classification games (like junior RWC or 7's)
Would love it

Thrashssacre · 30-05-2020 9:59pm

connachta wrote: »

New-Zealand and Australia will move to a Pacific Cup as soon as TV rights allow the change..
And for us, it's great, same time-schedule, same fighting spirit
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/south-africas-best-players-teams-18331953

18 teams
2 balanced pool of 9
16 games (all home and away, so FAIR) in regular season
Then, Play-offs and classification games (like junior RWC or 7's)
Would love it

Id be happy with that..... Can't see it happening though, too many teams and what's to be done about the Argentinians.

Thrashssacre · 30-05-2020 9:59pm

connachta wrote: »

New-Zealand and Australia will move to a Pacific Cup as soon as TV rights allow the change..
And for us, it's great, same time-schedule, same fighting spirit
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/south-africas-best-players-teams-18331953

18 teams
2 balanced pool of 9
16 games (all home and away, so FAIR) in regular season
Then, Play-offs and classification games (like junior RWC or 7's)
Would love it

Id be happy with that..... Can't see it happening though, too many teams and what's to be done about the Argentinians.

rudiger2.0 · 31-05-2020 9:29am

connachta wrote: »

New-Zealand and Australia will move to a Pacific Cup as soon as TV rights allow the change..
And for us, it's great, same time-schedule, same fighting spirit
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/south-africas-best-players-teams-18331953

18 teams
2 balanced pool of 9
16 games (all home and away, so FAIR) in regular season
Then, Play-offs and classification games (like junior RWC or 7's)
Would love it

So an Irish team will only play one other Irish team a year? Or potentially none of us not split evenly. Can't see that happening

connachta · 31-05-2020 9:37am

rudiger2.0 wrote: »

So an Irish team will only play one other Irish team a year? Or potentially none of us not split evenly. Can't see that happening

You can imagine

4 Irish
3 SA
2 Ita

4 Welsh
3 SA
2 Sco

And the other way round the year after
that's a possibility

Any home and away fixtures would be fairer to what we have anyway

Burkie1203 · 31-05-2020 12:56pm

connachta wrote: »

You can imagine

4 Irish
3 SA
2 Ita

4 Welsh
3 SA
2 Sco

And the other way round the year after
that's a possibility

Any home and away fixtures would be fairer to what we have anyway

Can't see the unions giving up the derbies.

There is too much money being lost at the moment and in a year from now when crowds are back at games they will want home and away derbies.

No way the Welsh will agree to 2 Italians in a group with the Irish while they have the 2 Scottish teams. Or vice versa

Burkie1203 · 31-05-2020 1:14pm

Yes it's Jones. But I've seen similar stuff elsewhere online. Welsh regions Now highly dependent on benefactors not pulling the plug

https://twitter.com/stephenjones9/status/1267047950481489922?s=19

connachta · 31-05-2020 1:22pm

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Can't see the unions giving up the derbies.

There is too much money being lost at the moment and in a year from now when crowds are back at games they will want home and away derbies.

No way the Welsh will agree to 2 Italians in a group with the Irish while they have the 2 Scottish teams. Or vice versa

Neither Irish nor Welsh would give up derbies under my hypothesis

Treviso are close to Scots.

But now Zebre's too weak and you're sensible to fairness?

:rolleyes: your were not that much when an idea came to make Treviso play them 4 times
Or when Connacht have to face way more difficult derbies years and years

My system wouldn't be perfect but way better than the "lame one" we have now

Burkie1203 · 31-05-2020 1:46pm

connachta wrote: »

Neither Irish nor Welsh would give up derbies under my hypothesis

Treviso are close to Scots.

But now Zebre's too weak and you're sensible to fairness?

:rolleyes: your were not that much when an idea came to make Treviso play them 4 times
Or when Connacht have to face way more difficult derbies years and years

My system wouldn't be perfect but way better than the "lame one" we have now

The Unions won't give up the derbies
They bring in too much money

The Irish and Welsh Unions won't agree to two Italians in one pool as opposed to two Scots in the other.

connachta · 31-05-2020 3:54pm

Burkie1203 wrote: »

The Unions won't give up the derbies
They bring in too much money

The Irish and Welsh Unions won't agree to two Italians in one pool as opposed to two Scots in the other.

Ther's no derbies abandonned in my proposition, you misread

And they will, the current system is more unbalenced than just Scot/Ita, and you know it.

Things have to change and fast.
This hybrid system with many disparities (pools + derbies + point rules for CC + no home and away) can't last.
Hope the SA newcomers will bring fresh air (and good level) very fast

Burkie1203 · 31-05-2020 4:05pm

connachta wrote: »

Ther's no derbies abandonned in my proposition, you misread

And they will, the current system is more unbalenced than just Scot/Ita, and you know it.

Things have to change and fast.
This hybrid system with many disparities (pools + derbies + point rules for CC + no home and away) can't last.
Hope the SA newcomers will bring fresh air (and good level) very fast

I'm not saying derbies will be abandoned in what you propose. But there is no way the derbies will be kept in that format coupled with those specific groups. The Welsh and maybe even the Italians won't agree to it. And for that to happen they would have to agree.

connachta · 31-05-2020 6:18pm

Burkie1203 wrote: »

I'm not saying derbies will be abandoned in what you propose. But there is no way the derbies will be kept in that format coupled with those specific groups. The Welsh and maybe even the Italians won't agree to it. And for that to happen they would have to agree.

I think you're wrong. It will be rotated every year, like pools under the current format.
But you're entiteled your opinion (slighty more ponderate than usual)

Digifriendly · 31-05-2020 10:16pm

How many fans travel to S. Africa for games and vice versa as Pro 14 stands? We should be looking to a British Isles League instead, Also who knows how long this pandemic will last and Wales Online article even hints that Super Rugby matches next year may not take place due to travel restrictions.

Burkie1203 · 01-06-2020 7:21am

Digifriendly wrote: »

How many fans travel to S. Africa for games and vice versa as Pro 14 stands? We should be looking to a British Isles League instead, Also who knows how long this pandemic will last and Wales Online article even hints that Super Rugby matches next year may not take place due to travel restrictions.

Aus and NZ teams will only be allowed play each other as it currently stands hence the potential push for SA teams to move north and Jaguares allowing all players leave.

Starting a Pro18 in mid/late January to run until september with 6n pushed back slightly makes sense. However we don't know how travel restrictions may impact teams from Italy and South Africa yet either.

The pro14 season 19/20 seems set to be ended quite quickly in any circumstance in August and early September. My guess is derby matches would be easier to get the go ahead from local authorities. Philip Browne said last week IRFU have submitted plans to Irish health authorities for inter pros in August and are awaiting feedback. Also the world rugby list for reducing contact is an effort to speed up the games return to action

This would be followed by ending the champions cup in October.

Then a host of international rugby games until the end of November, last season's 6n and either SH teams get to travel north or else more 6n teams

That seems to be The plan for now. It also takes 6 weeks based on medical advice to get players back upto speed so they need to be in full training in early July if August 22nd is a realistic target.

Digifriendly · 01-06-2020 11:21am

This pandemic has surely put all immediate hopes of a global season on hold for some time. There is even some talk that next year's Olympic Games may not take place. IMHO it's time to take stock and reassess where the game is actually going or if big bucks from companies like CVC will actually dictate its future. The crowds in S. Africa for Pro 14 to date have been poor and very few supporters can afford to travel from Europe to support their team in S. Africa in Pro 14. The Welsh regions were already struggling financially before the pandemic. Their stadiums were only full for Welsh derbies in Pro 14. Whether we like it or not it is the English/Welsh club games that would attract the bigger crowds. So I would forget about S. Africa altogether and concentrate on a 2 tier British or even European league so the Italians are not cut adrift. I know this would cause problmes re European Cup competitions but why not a straight knockout European competition to run alongside a European league? Just my thoughts.

Pro14 Season 2019-2020

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