Covid19 Part XVII-24,841 in ROI (1,639 deaths) 4,679 in NI (518 deaths)(28/05)Read OP

Flickerfusion · 28-05-2020 06:52AM

Looking at some of the attitudes developing at the moment it looks like we’ll back to square one before long.

I’ve just been posting on a thread where people are arguing it’s fine to send a 14 year old out to work for life experience in phase one of reopening and the impression I got is I’m wrong for even questioning that and that it’s somehow essential for the economy...

If that’s at all indicative of the general attitude - that the virus is gone and everything’s grand - job done - crack out the barbecue - we are potentially facing a very nasty second wave.

I’m seeing a lot of evidence of the measures just staring to fizzle out now when we should be proceeding with care.

I’m also seeing huge gaps between different organisations and groups. For example some companies that have been open through it - eg take away restaurants, supermarkets, offices, media companies etc have developed a fairly serious culture of keeping things under control in terms of virus spread.

A few places I’ve seen open this week have been a LOT more laid back as I don’t think they’ve had the same experience that the rest of us were having a few weeks ago - trying to work with extreme caution.

We absolutely need to reopen but we also absolutely need to take care we don’t get too relaxed about the basic measures that prevent spread.

There’s a big risk we are placing too much emphasis on the impact of the lockdown and not enough on the impact of hygiene measures and risk mitigation.

There’s also a lot more bleed over from the U.K. and US commentary, particularly as people start to become weary of the situation and the impression is everyone else is having a whale of a time on the beach.

We should be able to operate with business as usual, but safely but I’m just not sure how seriously everyone is taking this. It seems to me like in Ireland and elsewhere in Europe, a lot of people will just forget about all the measures as soon as the headlines become more positive.

wadacrack · 28-05-2020 07:05AM

Flickerfusion wrote: »

Looking at some of the attitudes developing at the moment it looks like we’ll back to square one before long.

I’ve just been posting on a thread where people are arguing it’s fine to send a 14 year old out to work for life experience in phase one of reopening and the impression I got is I’m wrong for even questioning that and that it’s somehow essential for the economy...

If that’s at all indicative of the general attitude - that the virus is gone and everything’s grand - job done - crack out the barbecue - we are potentially facing a very nasty second wave.

I’m seeing a lot of evidence of the measures just staring to fizzle out now when we should be proceeding with care.

I’m also seeing huge gaps between different organisations and groups. For example some media companies that have been open through it eg take away restaurants, supermarkets, offices, media companies etc have developed a fairly serious culture of keeping things under control in terms of virus spread.

A few places I’ve seen open this week have been a LOT more laid back.

Yea the media has been really dangerous during this pandemic. First of all spreading fear and now the messaging is open up the country now and not in a few weeks. More pressure on the HSE and more than likely contributing to the public becoming complacement. Some Virgin media guys tweeting RIP summer etc. Sending the wrong messages. Zara King way out of touch with first world problem type questions. Holohan is clearly annoyed now about the 2m or 1m questions. Lets be honest 1m basically means no social distancing in place. South Korea battling now to stop a 2nd wave .

Onesea · 28-05-2020 07:06AM

Flickerfusion wrote: »

Looking at some of the attitudes developing at the moment it looks like we’ll back to square one before long.

I’ve just been posting on a thread where people are arguing it’s fine to send a 14 year old out to work for life experience in phase one of reopening and the impression I got is I’m wrong for even questioning that and that it’s somehow essential for the economy...

If that’s at all indicative of the general attitude - that the virus is gone and everything’s grand - job done - crack out the barbecue - we are potentially facing a very nasty second wave.

I’m seeing a lot of evidence of the measures just staring to fizzle out now when we should be proceeding with care.

I’m also seeing huge gaps between different organisations and groups. For example some companies that have been open through it - eg take away restaurants, supermarkets, offices, media companies etc have developed a fairly serious culture of keeping things under control in terms of virus spread.

A few places I’ve seen open this week have been a LOT more laid back as I don’t think they’ve had the same experience that the rest of us were having a few weeks ago - trying to work with extreme caution.

We absolutely need to reopen but we also absolutely need to take care we don’t get too relaxed about the basic measures that prevent spread.

There’s a big risk we are placing too much emphasis on the impact of the lockdown and not enough on the impact of hygiene measures and risk mitigation.

We should be able to operate with business as usual, but safely but I’m just not sure how seriously everyone is taking this. It seems to me like in Ireland and elsewhere in Europe, a lot of people will just forget about all the measures as soon as the headlines become more positive.

Hey, the virus is weakening.So it may be present for a while longer but far less threatening to life.

Flickerfusion · 28-05-2020 07:10AM

Onesea wrote: »

Hey, the virus is weakening.So it may be present for a while longer but far less threatening to life.

There’s scant evidence of that and it could well be seasonality, or the fact that there’s been much, much more protection of vulnerable groups in Italy, where that story originates since the horrors a few weeks ago.

I wouldn’t throw caution to the wind just yet. At least not until we have a range of drugs available that improve chances to make it a bit less deadly.

A vaccine, if it happens at all, isn’t going to be available this year. Even 2021 is extremely ambitious.

weldoninhio · 28-05-2020 07:11AM

Banner fights back wrote: »

A most spiky and tetchy performance from Dr Holohan this evening

His disasterous decisions over the nursing homes are being exposed. He doesn't like it.

TheAsYLuMkeY · 28-05-2020 07:18AM

Uriel. wrote: »

These companies get a billion euro a year and yet couldn't protected their fee paying customers.

I will throw into the mix here also,

I was surprised to hear Stephen donnelly's interview on newstalk yesterday, one of the things he said was the Nursing homes were provided no PPE.

I can only speak of what i know, and one of the PPE suppliers in the west of Ireland that is dedicated to nursing homes told me he was selling over and above by far stock to nursing homes all over the west and north west and he couldn't keep up.

The had enough stock that they would use it in a year normally.

Flickerfusion · 28-05-2020 07:23AM

wadacrack wrote: »

Yea the media has been really dangerous during this pandemic. First of all spreading fear and now the messaging is open up the country now and not in a few weeks. More pressure on the HSE and more than likely contributing to the public becoming complacement. Some Virgin media guys tweeting RIP summer etc. Sending the wrong messages. Zara King way out of touch with first world problem type questions. Holohan is clearly annoyed now about the 2m or 1m questions. Lets be honest 1m basically means no social distancing in place. South Korea battling now to stop a 2nd wave .

I also find the “look at what (insert country that has populist leader and 10s of thousand of deaths and/or a track record of knee jerk social policy) is doing! Our lot are clearly incompetent for not following their lead verbatim!” lines are being rolled out a lot.

A sanely cautious approach makes sense.

And yeah, the 1m vs 2m argument is getting a bit ridiculous. At 1m, you might as well just say: please try not to cuddle.

The general sense of 2m would seem to be that most people would attempt to avoid each other. They may end up moving into 1m range now and then but they’ll get the gist of it.

ChelseaRentBoy · 28-05-2020 07:24AM

Went up to a local park (Deer Park) last night for a walk with the dog. First time up there in weeks as a bit off my beaten track. Shocked to witness what was happening. Gangs of people everywhere, playing football, frisbees, eating and drinking with rugs laid out. I thought i'd walked into a mini festival. These where not families either but some where mixing with others. Got out quick smart and first house i passed when i left had what looked like circa 20 people in the front garden having a barbecue and boozing. Unfortunately these selfish pricks just can't observe self control for the good of us all.

Meanwhile in South Korea https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0528/1143078-world-coronavirus-cases/

GazzaL · 28-05-2020 07:28AM

The worst recession in the history of the State is on the way according to the ESRI. We have the slowest reopening plan in all of Europe. We are paying €115m per month to keep private hospitals empty, denying people access to medical treatment which they desperately need. We have no roadmap for the return of cancer screenings. We're introducing further travel restrictions when the rest of Europe is looking at removing barriers. People can't earn an honest living, they can't see family and friends. This will lead to social and economic devastation and death for many people. At this stage, I would say there's a silent majority of people who are paying no heed to this bull**** and getting on with their lives as best they can.

Flickerfusion · 28-05-2020 07:28AM

That’s the other bit that’s surprising me. In normal times people didn’t have picnics in the middle of their local green with all their neighbours, or do the conga with them.

It’s like both here and in Britain people are feeling the need to be even more sociable in those contexts than they’ve ever been before.

It’s the same with the 2km and 5km walks. I’ve never seen so many people out walking at any other stage ever before.

Boggles · 28-05-2020 07:29AM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

No fan of this lad, especially after his failure to deliver on his election platform. But it's refreshing to see someone raise their head above the parapet and to stop hiding behind Holohan, I guess though imminent retirement makes one brave.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/minister-breaks-ranks-and-calls-for-social-distancing-rules-to-be-relaxed-1002090.html

That's the lad who wanted to go to North Korea to broker peace talks? :pac:

I'm going to suggest we don' take public health advice from him in the middle of once in a generation global pandemic, he admits himself he is "baffled", which seems to be a constant default position for him.

wadacrack · 28-05-2020 07:30AM

https://twitter.com/ZaraKing/status/1265907799583862786

Embarrasing

weldoninhio · 28-05-2020 07:30AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

1,205 (101,716 total) new deaths so far today in the US as the president's re-election hopes continue to go up in flames

- much as the bible did shortly after Trump put his hand on it at his inauguration.

So about 24 deaths per state?? With 40 of those states being bigger than Ireland. Numbers seem reasonable compared to everywhere else.

stephenjmcd · 28-05-2020 07:30AM

wadacrack wrote: »

Yea the media has been really dangerous during this pandemic. First of all spreading fear and now the messaging is open up the country now and not in a few weeks. More pressure on the HSE and more than likely contributing to the public becoming complacement. Some Virgin media guys tweeting RIP summer etc. Sending the wrong messages. Zara King way out of touch with first world problem type questions. Holohan is clearly annoyed now about the 2m or 1m questions. Lets be honest 1m basically means no social distancing in place. South Korea battling now to stop a 2nd wave .

Not sure on the media saying open up now?? The likes of prime time and tonight snow on virgin media are still spreading fear.

On South Korea that is far from a 2nd wave, don't just believe what you read on RTE. It's a relatively low number of cases based on their population. Your going to see cases come up, but 79 in a country of 51 million. They had the same last week linked back to a nightclub.

Also the company where the outbreak is forced a sick worker to continue to come to work, but sure you wont read that on rte.

callaway92 · 28-05-2020 07:33AM

wadacrack wrote: »

https://twitter.com/ZaraKing/status/1265907799583862786

Embarrasing

What's so embarrassing about it? Just using it as something to pick on Zara King with?

Nothing wrong with the question tbh. Things that are down to person interpretation like 'small' wedding or 'small-to-medium' gatherings are kinda frustrating to hear.

phormium · 28-05-2020 07:34AM

Flickerfusion wrote: »

That’s the other bit that’s surprising me. In normal times people didn’t have picnics in the middle of their local green with all their neighbours, or do the conga with them.

It’s like both here and in Britain people are feeling the need to be even more sociable in those contexts than they’ve ever been before.

It’s the same with the 2km and 5km walks. I’ve never seen so many people out walking at any other stage ever before.

In normal times you wouldn't see people out having picnics as they would eating in restaurants etc.

Same for the walking, people who used to go the gym or to any sort of sports can't do that so walking is all we have pretty much!

stephenjmcd · 28-05-2020 07:35AM

wadacrack wrote: »

https://twitter.com/ZaraKing/status/1265907799583862786

Embarrasing

Not really embarrassing, she's pushing for plans to be released. I think everyone would like to know where they stand. The detail associated with various businesses reopening is scarce. Those due to open in a month have no idea what measures they're supposed to put in place bar social distancing and hand hygiene

weldoninhio · 28-05-2020 07:36AM

Strumms wrote: »

Again, us, as an island nation is a major plus, it makes it logistically easier for us. But that major plus and help is challenged because of this whole fuçkin ‘socially needy’ and ‘be alright’ personality traits...

The whole "bestest boys in Europe" that our politicians are trying to put over screwed us.

Flickerfusion · 28-05-2020 07:37AM

GazzaL wrote: »

The worst recession in the history of the State is on the way according to the ESRI. We have the slowest reopening plan in all of Europe. We are paying €115m per month to keep private hospitals empty, denying people access to medical treatment which they desperately need. We have no roadmap for the return of cancer screenings. We're introducing further travel restrictions when the rest of Europe is looking at removing barriers. People can't earn an honest living, they can't see family and friends. This will lead to social and economic devastation and death for many people. At this stage, I would say there's a silent majority of people who are paying no heed to this bull**** and getting on with their lives as best they can.

We’re going to have a European, American and global recession one way or another because of COVID 19.

Ireland’s got an opportunity to pull off a slightly more cautious approach to this than some of our neighbours. We have the luxury of being a bit more isolated. We aren’t in Schengen. We’re an island, so have limited issues with road traffic, other than with Northern Ireland and we are much less dependent on tourism as a big part of our economy than any of our neighbours, including the U.K. and USA.

Many of the sectors here can and are reopening safely.

Throwing everything as open as possible is not going to save us from an impending recession. What will ultimately drive that is the global situation with trade.

If we manage to avoid a second wave in the autumn by being that bit more cautious, it’s quite possible we could be in a similar situation to NZ and Australia, relatively unimpaired, while other places could be very badly hit.

There’s a very strong likelihood the US simply won’t get control of this due to political issues and you’ll have a big mess again in a few months and the U.K. is similar and you could well have have major problems on the continent as mass movement of tourism kicks off. Germany is already warning about this.

It’s not as simple as just economic activity at max vs lockdown. It’s a balance and we are walking a tightrope.

If you get a big second wave before there’s any serious medical treatments, we have a potentially huge economic impact too.

As yet, there’s really no reason to expect this virus to have gone away or somehow become less of a risk.

Short term vs medium term thinking!

pjohnson · 28-05-2020 07:37AM

GazzaL wrote: »

The worst recession in the history of the State is on the way according to the ESRI. We have the slowest reopening plan in all of Europe. We are paying €115m per month to keep private hospitals empty, denying people access to medical treatment which they desperately need. We have no roadmap for the return of cancer screenings. We're introducing further travel restrictions when the rest of Europe is looking at removing barriers. People can't earn an honest living, they can't see family and friends. This will lead to social and economic devastation and death for many people. At this stage, I would say there's a silent majority of people who are paying no heed to this bull**** and getting on with their lives as best they can.

Ah yes silent majority been a while since they were mobilised.

is_that_so · 28-05-2020 07:37AM

One of those (useful?) COVID-19 risk summary articles.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg24632843-300-at-work-school-and-seeing-friends-how-to-lower-your-coronavirus-risk

is_that_so · 28-05-2020 07:38AM

weldoninhio wrote: »

The whole "bestest boys in Europe" that our politicians are trying to put over screwed us.

Screwed us how? Where is "bestest" in that case?

pjohnson · 28-05-2020 07:39AM

is_that_so wrote: »

Screwed us how? Where is "bestest" in that case?

Sweden is the poster boy I believe.

wadacrack · 28-05-2020 07:39AM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Not sure on the media saying open up now?? The likes of prime time and tonight snow on virgin media are still spreading fear.

On South Korea that is far from a 2nd wave, don't just believe what you read on RTE. It's a relatively low number of cases based on their population. Your going to see cases come up, but 79 in a country of 51 million. They had the same last week linked back to a nightclub.

Also the company where the outbreak is forced a sick worker to continue to come to work, but sure you wont read that on rte.

Its low because their tracing over 80,000 contacts related the nightclub incident. It would more than likely grow exponentially if nothing was done.

is_that_so · 28-05-2020 07:41AM

pjohnson wrote: »

Sweden is the poster boy I believe.

Yeah, a photoshopped poster!

GazzaL · 28-05-2020 07:41AM

Flickerfusion wrote: »

We’re going to have a European, American and global recession one way or another because of COVID 19.

Ireland’s got an opportunity to pull off a slightly more cautious approach to this than some of our neighbours. We have the luxury of being a bit more isolated. We aren’t in Schengen. We’re an island, so have limited issues with road traffic, other than with Northern Ireland and we are much less dependent on tourism as a big part of our economy than any of our neighbours, including the U.K. and USA.

Many of the sectors here can and are reopening safely.

Throwing everything as open as possible is not going to save us from an impending recession. What will ultimately drive that is the global situation with trade.

If we manage to avoid a second wave in the autumn by being that bit more cautious, it’s quite possible we could be in a similar situation to NZ and Australia, relatively unimpaired.

The biggest recession in the history of the State. Try to let that sink in. People must have the memory of a goldfish if they can't remember the devastation caused by the last one.

We're keeping hospitals empty and denying people medical treatment for serious illnesses FFS!

Jackman25 · 28-05-2020 07:42AM

eagle eye wrote: »

Big difference between fear and my other trait which is common sense.
I'd suspect you are very lacking in the common sense department.

eagle eye wrote: »

I just gave you one example off the top of my head that I know about. I've seen many people doing things they shouldn't but I don't know if anything happened because of those things.
I'm not out hunting for stories about what's going on.
Fact of the matter is he wasn't the only person who went to Cheltenham and didn't self-isolate when they came back. There could be hundreds of those stories and we'll never know about a lot of them because the carrier was asymptomatic.
I'm not interested in a debate with somebody who only has one agenda which is to put everybody back out on the street. You fire ahead and do your thing, I'll be going nowhere until I feel it's safe to and neither will my wife or kids. We'll homeschool until this thing is gone.
I'm happy to watch from the sidelines and ensure my family stays safe.

Common sense my hole. Going to home school till a vaccine comes ya?

weldoninhio · 28-05-2020 07:44AM

is_that_so wrote: »

Screwed us how? Where is "bestest" in that case?

"How would we feel if Italy stopped our flights" - Simon Coveney, as Italy became the epicentre of the virus in Europe.

28-05-2020 07:45AM

phormium wrote: »

In normal times you wouldn't see people out having picnics as they would eating in restaurants etc.

Same for the walking, people who used to go the gym or to any sort of sports can't do that so walking is all we have pretty much!

Plus people are finding that their day is done at 5 and they have no commute. With nothing else to do, everyone is going to be out in the parks. Public places are going to be far busier than normal times for the foreseeable future, as long as we are all WFH

Widdensushi · 28-05-2020 07:45AM

Flickerfusion wrote: »

We’re going to have a European, American and global recession one way or another because of COVID 19.

Ireland’s got an opportunity to pull off a slightly more cautious approach to this than some of our neighbours. We have the luxury of being a bit more isolated. We aren’t in Schengen. We’re an island, so have limited issues with road traffic, other than with Northern Ireland and we are much less dependent on tourism as a big part of our economy than any of our neighbours, including the U.K. and USA.

Many of the sectors here can and are reopening safely.

Throwing everything as open as possible is not going to save us from an impending recession. What will ultimately drive that is the global situation with trade.

If we manage to avoid a second wave in the autumn by being that bit more cautious, it’s quite possible we could be in a similar situation to NZ and Australia, relatively unimpaired, while other places could be very badly hit.

There’s a very strong likelihood the US simply won’t get control of this due to political issues and you’ll have a big mess again in a few months and the U.K. is similar and you could well have have major problems on the continent as mass movement of tourism kicks off. Germany is already warning about this.

It’s not as simple as just economic activity at max vs lockdown. It’s a balance and we are walking a tightrope.

If you get a big second wave before there’s any serious medical treatments, we have a potentially huge economic impact too.

As yet, there’s really no reason to expect this virus to have gone away or somehow become less of a risk.

Short term vs medium term thinking!

Other countries closed their borders, we did not and seem to have no intention of it, we are wasting our time having a cautious approach internally.

Covid19 Part XVII-24,841 in ROI (1,639 deaths) 4,679 in NI (518 deaths)(28/05)Read OP

Comments