Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

Capt'n Midnight · 24-05-2020 11:09AM

Something about 40% of pubs planning to reopen as restaurants for Phase 3 - June 29 rather than as pubs in Phase 5 - August 10

How much drinking up till will be allowed after the meal ?
How many rounds would you be able to get in before the meal. Maybe people will be complaining about how the service is too fast ?

Nursing a pint will not put the casual drinker in the good books.
So I'd also expect a little of this https://asset.soup.io/asset/14932/4722_f5d0_500.jpeg

Capt'n Midnight · 24-05-2020 11:23AM

murphyebass wrote: »

15 mins in the freezer so you can’t taste the beer. Nice.

If you are going down that road where you can't taste it then Aldi's Galahad is the way to go.

Makes Dutch Gold look way over priced.

When offered a beer, accept even if it's not "your brand". Your favorite brand of beer is "free". Your second favorite is "cold".

Home drinking means pub drinkers have been exposed to supermarket prices. Be interesting to see how overall consumption has changed see (wholesale figures or revenue) especially when you consider that people can't go to cinemas, ice skating etc. instead of going to the pub or nightclub.

MUP means enticing people back to the pub which shouldn't be encouraged until the need for social distancing has passed.

double jobbing · 24-05-2020 11:41AM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/minimum-alcohol-pricing-2-5104494-May2020

This hasn't gone away you know.
Right now I'm off booze and never want to drink again. But regardless, this law infuriates me more than anything else a government has done for as long as I can remember.
Do you think it will still pass? Why the f*ck are we putting up with this? Polls all say like 85 and 90% of people don't want it.

Simon Harris really is a c'unt. Country financially crippled and he wants us paying more.

Tuborg already upped their price by 50 cent per 4 pack in anticipation of this.

Capt'n Midnight · 24-05-2020 02:06PM

MUP is just a mechanism to line the pockets of the distributors of branded drinks and supermarkets for non-branded drinks.This they'll be able to spend more on ads and promotions and pub refurbishments and lobbying.

MUP will not deliver a single cent extra to the health services. Ever.

There are already lower excise duty rates for microbreweries and beers and ciders with lower than 2.8% alcohol content. So mechanisms to have different rates have been in place for years.

A better alternative to MUP would be to increase the excise duty across the board and have lower duty for pubs, restaurants and other places for served drinks.

Muahahaha · 24-05-2020 02:56PM

Whats the status of MUP at the moment, did it pass that legal challenge in Scotland? Would imagine the publicans will be using the crises to get it rammed through if they can along with a VAT reduction

Quackster · 24-05-2020 07:57PM

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

Muahahaha wrote: »

Whats the status of MUP at the moment, did it pass that legal challenge in Scotland? Would imagine the publicans will be using the crises to get it rammed through if they can along with a VAT reduction

Yep, it passed the legal test in Scotland and, as of March this year, is now law in Wales as well.

Potential-Monke · 25-05-2020 06:07AM

The article states that most main brand alcohol won't go up as it's already above the MUP. Only the cheaper stuff and higher alcohol content stuff will be affected. So I'd find it a bit sad if someone drove over the border to save a few euro on cheap alcohol.

I see no harm in it. Drink is way too cheap in off licences, and if we actually did care about the health of drinkers, we shouldn't be making it as easy and as cheap as it currently is. I think it was mentioned somewhere in this thread, but if the cost of drink at home is similar to the cost in pubs, more people are likely to go to the pubs. Are the VFI in support of this? (A quick Google suggests they are).

odyssey06 · 25-05-2020 07:07AM

Potential-Monke wrote: »

The article states that most main brand alcohol won't go up as it's already above the MUP. Only the cheaper stuff and higher alcohol content stuff will be affected.

Article is wrong on that. RRP mighty be above MUP but not promo prices.

I see no harm in it. Drink is way too cheap in off licences, and if we actually did care about the health of drinkers, we shouldn't be making it as easy and as cheap as it currently is. I think it was mentioned somewhere in this thread, but if the cost of drink at home is similar to the cost in pubs, more people are likely to go to the pubs. Are the VFI in support of this? (A quick Google suggests they are).

It's not cheap, in comparison with other western EU countries or the UK, which is what we usually compare ourselves to on pricing.

The interaction between alcohol and health is complex, as all risks mortality studies have shown. Are there no problem drinkers in pubs? No drink drivers coming home from pubs? You'll have to come up with some actual arguments here, "if we actually cared" is not an argument worthy of any respect, it's a pretty tired debating tactic, trying to paint people opposed to this measure as somehow less caring. Why not throw in a "will someone please think of the children"?
There's no link between good intentions and actual outcomes and a lot of the thinking behind this legislation has nothing to do with good intentions, it's about vintners and retailers lining their pockets and some puritans on a power grab.

Does Ireland have more or less alcohol related health issues than France, where drink prices are already lower in supermarkets and pubs than in Ireland?

Are the VFI in support of this? Have you been reading this thread? Why do you think it has gotten so much traction?

YFlyer · 25-05-2020 07:41AM

Would 4 cans if Linden Village for €6 be expensive compared to elsewhere?

Hotblack Desiato · 25-05-2020 08:04AM

Potential-Monke wrote: »

The article states that most main brand alcohol won't go up as it's already above the MUP. Only the cheaper stuff and higher alcohol content stuff will be affected.

This is complete bollox, as the minimum price is 2 euro for a 500mL can/bottle of beer. Which is outrageous. They won't dare implement this in the depths of the corona recession we're staring into. It'd be both electoral and economic suicide. MUP is a policy of arrogant **** riding high on a buoyant economy with little else to be worrying about.

odyssey06 · 25-05-2020 10:40AM

YFlyer wrote: »

Would 4 cans if Linden Village for €6 be expensive compared to elsewhere?

That works out at €3 per litre, €2.50 a litre if you get the 2L bottle.

In Carrefour France you can get cider bottles for €1.60 a litre, before 10am!
* This part of the story is true

I had to fight my way through the drinks aisle past drunken louts to purchase a (nice) bottle of wine for €3...
* This part of the story is not true, but exists in the fever dream of some MUP proponents

Geuze · 25-05-2020 11:16AM

Potential-Monke wrote: »

I see no harm in it. Drink is way too cheap in off licences, and if we actually did care about the health of drinkers, we shouldn't be making it as easy and as cheap as it currently is.

Where is this "way too cheap" drink you speak of?

50cl of beer starts at 29c in Germany.

Bottles of spirits from 10 euro in Lidl Germany:

https://www.lidl-flyer.com/beste-weine-fur-jeden-anlass-30-04-2020-31-05-2020/view/flyer/page/20?_ga=2.23769786.1473263943.1590405183-1404584930.1590405183

ohnonotgmail · 25-05-2020 11:24AM

Geuze wrote: »

Where is this "way too cheap" drink you speak of?

50cl of beer starts at 29c in Germany.

Bottles of spirits from 10 euro in Lidl Germany:

https://www.lidl-flyer.com/beste-weine-fur-jeden-anlass-30-04-2020-31-05-2020/view/flyer/page/20?_ga=2.23769786.1473263943.1590405183-1404584930.1590405183

yeah but us Irish are all desperate alcoholics and need to be protected from ourselves. the germans dont have any issues with alcoholism at all.

Patrick2010 · 25-05-2020 01:54PM

double jobbing wrote: »

Simon Harris really is a c'unt. Country financially crippled and he wants us paying more.

Tuborg already upped their price by 50 cent per 4 pack in anticipation of this.

5 euro for a 4 pack in my local shop still

YFlyer · 25-05-2020 02:24PM

london bus 200 wrote: »

LETS AGREE AND SAY, LOK A IT YHE OTHER WAY ANDU AND I HAVE HAVE GOT THIS GOT COMPLETELY, WRONG, ITS THE WAY TEH ENTIRE WORLD FUNTIONS, WE CANT JUST HAVE A BUNCH OF CITIXENS AND WE KNOW NOHTING ABOUT THEM,

What the fu.ck?

bmc58 · 25-05-2020 02:29PM

double jobbing wrote: »

Simon Harris really is a c'unt. Country financially crippled and he wants us paying more.

Tuborg already upped their price by 50 cent per 4 pack in anticipation of this.

Horrible stuff Tuborg.Wouldn't drink it if it was for free.

Muahahaha · 25-05-2020 02:33PM

Quackster wrote: »

Yep, it passed the legal test in Scotland and, as of March this year, is now law in Wales as well.

Cheers, I guess that means Im just a little bit closer to going up to the attic and getting my home brewing equipment out of storage. Can brew quality beer for 50 cents a pint so thats what I'll be doing when this comes in.

Be interesting to see how a black market for alcohol pops up overnight when they introduce this. We already have some 25% of all cigarette sales now in the black market, alcohol will go the same direction and the very criminal networks who already run the cigarette trade will be perfectly positioned to do the same with alcohol too.

YFlyer · 25-05-2020 02:35PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

That works out at €3 per litre, €2.50 a litre if you get the 2L bottle.

In Carrefour France you can get cider bottles for €1.60 a litre, before 10am!
* This part of the story is true

I had to fight my way through the drinks aisle past drunken louts to purchase a (nice) bottle of wine for €3...
* This part of the story is not true, but exists in the fever dream of some MUP proponents

Cheers. I may buy a 2L bottle next. I dropped the ball there. Off to Aldi soon.

25-05-2020 02:36PM

I really believe that the people complaining that alcohol is too cheap in off licences must be involved in the pub trade.
Alcohol is not cheap in Ireland. Go to Germany or anywhere else in Europe and you will see what cheap alcohol really costs.

PopePalpatine · 25-05-2020 04:14PM

Faxe's absolute units are back in Lidl for €1.99 each.

ShatterAlan · 25-05-2020 04:40PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I really believe that the people complaining that alcohol is too cheap in off licences must be involved in the pub trade.
Alcohol is not cheap in Ireland. Go to Germany or anywhere else in Europe and you will see what cheap alcohol really costs.

Agreed. In the Netherlands you can get most mainstream beers like Heineken and Amstel for E4.59 a 6pack. Lesser known brands like Dommelsch Pils is 3.69 a 6 pack. Even the supermarkets own brand pilsner which is pretty decent is 49c for a 500ml can. It's 39c if you have a bonus card which you can just get at the service desk anyway. So let's do the "math"....you can get 13 cans of decent lager for just a few cents over a fiver and get trolleyed for the same price as 4 cans of Tuborg or Praszky in Ireland.

da_miser · 30-05-2020 08:23PM

Im well out of school and in a decent job, can afford a few drinks at the weekend.
Now imagine i'm once again 20 years old, do i spend my hard earned money on a €6 pint, €2 Dutch gold or €3 "premium" can of beer.
So i;m thing, lot of money to be spent on beer, as sure fûck it i'll drop a trip for €5 and be out of it from 15:00 Saturday till midnight and then smoke a joint and head home at 03:00.
The war on drugs will never be won if alcohol is so expensive

odyssey06 · 30-05-2020 08:27PM

da_miser wrote: »

Im well out of school and in a decent job, can afford a few drinks at the weekend.
Now imagine i'm once again 20 years old, do i spend my hard earned money on a €6 pint, €2 Dutch gold or €3 "premium" can of beer.
So i;m thing, lot of money to be spent on beer, as sure fûck it i'll drop a trip for €5 and be out of it from 15:00 Saturday till midnight and then smoke a joint and head home at 03:00.
The war on drugs will never be won if alcohol is so expensive

That reminds me of a quote from Thomas Jefferson trying to nudge the American people away from moonshine to wine...

No nation is drunken where wine is cheap; and none sober, where the dearness of wine substitutes ardent spirits as the common beverage. It is in truth the only antidote to the bane of whisky.

da_miser · 30-05-2020 08:38PM

The simple fact is there is no such thing as drug pushers.
They do not push their product on anyone
People seek out the drugs.
Meanwhile Alcohol is advertised everywhere and Tobacco is advertised in Movies as a cool thing the heroes do.
They say all drugs are bad, the the youngsters smoke a joint, enjoy it , go to bed, wake up , SHOCK HORROR not a addict, get on with their lives. Might be weeks, months or years before they smoke a joint again.

So they think, the powers that be lie about weed, maybe they lie about Heroin? Devastation follows, the time for proper drug laws in now.
Increase the price of alcohol, expect a surge in drug use, as a working man with money, if beer gets too expensive i will certainly be seeking out the drugs of my youth

Capt'n Midnight · 31-05-2020 12:59AM

YFlyer wrote: »

Would 4 cans if Linden Village for €6 be expensive compared to elsewhere?

500ml cans ?
You can buy 2L of cider for less than €4.

23% of that is VAT, most of the rest is excise. And the cider you get in supermarkets has the same cost of production. I expect the the word "village" comes from a marketing focus group rather than it being from a community friendly local micro brewery.

Capt'n Midnight · 31-05-2020 01:04AM

da_miser wrote: »

The simple fact is there is no such thing as drug pushers.

Geuze · 31-05-2020 01:07AM

If the rate of VAT is x%, then VAT is not x% of the retail price.

That is a common, typical mistake.

4.00 cider less 23% VAT = 4.00/1.23 = 3.25

VAT is 75c, or 18.75% of the price.

Excise is 94.46 per hectolitre, or 94.46 cent per litre.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/companies-and-charities/excise-and-licences/excise-duty-rates/alcohol-products-tax.aspx

So 1.89 excise + 0.75 VAT = 2.64 tax on the 4.00 cider.

sheepsh4gger · 31-05-2020 01:20AM

Commotion Ocean wrote: »

The government are set to bring in minimum alcohol pricing.

A slab of 24 cans will have a minimum price of €48 and a bottle of spirits will be a minimum of €28.

Ultimate nanny state bolloxogy and pandering again to the vitners association.

I'm on touch site, so link to follow.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2016/1124/834033-alcohol-research-rcsi/

(Misspelling in the headline ... no surprises coming from that North Korean unionised crap rag anyway.)

This is absolute nonsense in my opinion. Even the cheapest of beers (shop own brand) will have to be sold at €2 per can (1 Euro per unit of alcohol). Naggins will be a minimum of €8, 70cl bottles will be €28, cans of beer €2 and a whopping €40 for a litre of spirits.

We are heading on a slippery slope towards a fascist Nazi-style dictatorship. Ireland is a First World country, I believe in capitalism. If someone over the legal drinking age wants to buy a can of beer at 50 cents and a shop is offering the cans at such a price, then why should a Hitler-style government stop them?

Hahaha, this is an authoritarian communist state posing as a free market economy. What will happen is very easy to predict, but commies have no connection to reality so they wouldn't know: everyone will start making and selling booze illegally. All you really need is a can of Coopers syrup/base and some 'turbo' yeast. What are they going to do then - ban yeast?

People make alcohol in prison, it's very easy.

sheepsh4gger · 31-05-2020 01:31AM

> Speaking on RTÉ's Morning Ireland, Prof Murray said alcohol is associated with an enormous amount of illness and death in Ireland.
no sh1t
so does having lowest IQ scores in EU
what is he going to do exactly about it? Increase the price? Great, now every paddy will turn his living space into a brewery.

In Finland they tried prohibition, it just encouraged people to make their own alcohol.

Also you create a black market.

The dumbest thing a government can do is make it more profitable to commit crime. There will be gangs running Ethanol distilleries then people will create fake beer by adding pure ethanol to non-alcoholic beer and sell it as booze.

Atlantic Dawn · 31-05-2020 01:35AM

da_miser wrote: »

Im well out of school and in a decent job, can afford a few drinks at the weekend.
Now imagine i'm once again 20 years old, do i spend my hard earned money on a €6 pint, €2 Dutch gold or €3 "premium" can of beer.
So i;m thing, lot of money to be spent on beer, as sure fûck it i'll drop a trip for €5 and be out of it from 15:00 Saturday till midnight and then smoke a joint and head home at 03:00.
The war on drugs will never be won if alcohol is so expensive

€8 pints will be needed to save the pubs, anyone thinking that those fond of circa €1 cans are going to rush to the pubs is deluded, illegal drugs it will be and lots of them that the state will make the grand sum of zero from.

Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

Comments