Anyone managing an off-farm job with dairying?

onrail · 25-05-2020 08:27AM #1

Anyone on here trying to balance off-farm employment with dairying? If so, what do you work at, and how are you finding things?

I'm currently working full time, away from the farm, but hoping to move back home to transition into taking over from the auld fella, who's around 5 years off retirement.

I wouldn't mind getting into Dairy full-time, and would prefer that over my off-farm job, but the pessimist in me doesn't want to put all my eggs into one basket.

When I move home in 1-2 years, I'm thinking I'll probably try drop down part-time in the job and split the work with the auld lad as best I can. Once he slows down completely though, I'll probably have to make a call either way. As far as I can see, mixing a full time career with Dairying just doesn't work?

Any experiences otherwise? My other option is to spend the next year retraining into an off-farm career which might be a bit more flexible to mixing in with the farm work.

Mooooo · 25-05-2020 08:54AM

Investing in facilities so jobs can be done quickly and right along with having a good relief or part time person may be the way to go depending on the parents stage. Would be tough going. Could look at switching to once a day perhaps.

blue5000 · 25-05-2020 08:55AM

I wouldn't think they'd have time to be on boards.

I was in college full time for a few years before exiting dairying. Was starting at 5.30 and often finished feeding at 10pm. Let's just say it's a young man's game. OAD might be an option.

You really need a good contractor to take some of the pressure off, slurry, fertiliser spreading and fencing. Local aib ag advisor went dairying part time, built it up to around 150 cows and is now farming full time, so it can be done. Good organisation skills and a good team of people around you all help.

Sugarbowl · 25-05-2020 08:58AM

Plenty of people I know work in dairy and off farm as well. A lot of it depends on the flexibility of the second job. You will need to be home more around Spring with calving etc. Many farmers I know would do building/carpentry work and wouldn’t be as tied down to the clock.

Bass Reeves · 25-05-2020 09:02AM

OP what sort of land area, type of land and how many cows milked at present

onrail · 25-05-2020 09:19AM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

OP what sort of land area, type of land and how many cows milked at present

280 acres total, with around half of that on an outfarm roughly 3 miles from the yard. Current milking block is around 60 acres in dry, but very sandy, typically north-facing ground, so isn't the most productive and could do with a good re-seeding.

Auld lad tipping away milking 60, with a bit of dairy-to-beef on the side.

ABitofsense · 25-05-2020 09:20AM

When my father was sick a couple of years ago, I had to balance milking & a busy 9-5 job for 3 months. It nearly killed me! 5.30 starting milking & doing all the jobs, head to work & straight back to milking. It wasn't worth the hassle, no family time or anything. I dried and sold all that winter best decision ever as my father got his health back with no worries about milking everyday. I'm in sucklers now & working which is way more manageable with my job and my father can potter around the farm giving out about the little things i haven't done!

onrail · 25-05-2020 09:24AM

ABitofsense wrote: »

When my father was sick a couple of years ago, I had to balance milking & a busy 9-5 job for 3 months. It nearly killed me! 5.30 starting milking & doing all the jobs, head to work & straight back to milking. It wasn't worth the hassle, no family time or anything. I dried and sold all that winter best decision ever as my father got his health back with no worries about milking everyday. I'm in sucklers now & working which is way more manageable with my job and my father can potter around the farm giving out about the little things i haven't done!

If I'm being honest, that's probably the most realistic solution - but jayses it'd kill me to go to sucklers. We used to have a few back in the day and I really hated the pricks.

25-05-2020 09:36AM

I know one farm that got a robot in the last year or so, I’d assume it’s for future proofing when the sons have to be running the farm full time while doing full time jobs.

Used to work in the buildings during college with a block layer who milked, used to work 6 days a week blocklaying too. But it was all local within 10 mins of home and I don’t think he has a large herd.

Siamsa Sessions · 25-05-2020 10:11AM

onrail wrote: »

I wouldn't mind getting into Dairy full-time, and would prefer that over my off-farm job.

Are you working and milking there at the weekends at the moment? If not, try that for a month and you'll have a better idea then whether you like it or not.

onrail wrote: »

When I move home in 1-2 years, I'm thinking I'll probably try drop down part-time in the job and split the work with the auld lad as best I can. Once he slows down completely though, I'll probably have to make a call either way. As far as I can see, mixing a full time career with Dairying just doesn't work?

If you can drop back to part-time at that stage, give it a go for 6 months. I mean milking and working part-time. As with above comment, you'll have a better idea then whether or not you want to go milking full-time.

onrail wrote: »

Any experiences otherwise? My other option is to spend the next year retraining into an off-farm career which might be a bit more flexible to mixing in with the farm work.

As a man said to me here in the yard last week, "They could an-ting be done". If you have a part-time off-farm job, say 20-25 hours/week, and it's flexible so you can do 4-5 hours every day, Mon-Fri, then it would certainly be manageable. Before you look around to re-train though, if the current job can't be done part-time, to see what might give you that flexibility, ask yourself the big questions: What do you want to do? Milk cows? Live at home? Stay in your current job? Re-train to do something else? Meet a wife/husband? Read more classic novels? Run marathons? Play GAA? etc.

They could an-ting be done. But figuring out the right ting for you is the hard part.

And apologies for the philosophy on a Monday morning!

ABitofsense · 25-05-2020 10:18AM

onrail wrote: »

If I'm being honest, that's probably the most realistic solution - but jayses it'd kill me to go to sucklers. We used to have a few back in the day and I really hated the pricks.

We bought in HEx, LMx & AAx from dairy so were bucket fed and kept the best for breeding & they would be the quietest stock around. They would follow me around the farm if needed, calves and all. No running after anything! Any problems cull! The way i look at farming is as a hobby, keep books balanced & enjoy the fresh air as stress free as possible

Mooooo · 25-05-2020 10:36AM

onrail wrote: »

280 acres total, with around half of that on an outfarm roughly 3 miles from the yard. Current milking block is around 60 acres in dry, but very sandy, typically north-facing ground, so isn't the most productive and could do with a good re-seeding.

Auld lad tipping away milking 60, with a bit of dairy-to-beef on the side.

Are you saying there is one block of 140 acres? Others may disagree but if you want to go dairying fulltime with that amount of land 150+ cows would be very manageable. Use the biggest block as the grazing platform and the rest for heifers and silage. Look at everything, join a local discussion group etc. Managing a larger herd would be easier than working and milking a smaller herd.

Panch18 · 25-05-2020 10:48AM

onrail wrote: »

280 acres total, with around half of that on an outfarm roughly 3 miles from the yard. Current milking block is around 60 acres in dry, but very sandy, typically north-facing ground, so isn't the most productive and could do with a good re-seeding.

Auld lad tipping away milking 60, with a bit of dairy-to-beef on the side.

With that land base and if you had no loans you could have a decent living for yourself with dairy and beef. maybe up your cows to say 75, improve your grass, get, or continue, a nice simple beef system going and you should be fine.

you don't need to be milking 300 cows to do ok for yourself

onrail · 25-05-2020 10:59AM

Mooooo wrote: »

Are you saying there is one block of 140 acres? Others may disagree but if you want to go dairying fulltime with that amount of land 150+ cows would be very manageable. Use the biggest block as the grazing platform and the rest for heifers and silage. Look at everything, join a local discussion group etc. Managing a larger herd would be easier than working and milking a smaller herd.

Yeah, the outfarm block is around 130 acres, but there are no existing infrastructure or buildings there. It's typically been used for young stock, silage (and even sheep back in the day!). We'd need a big investment to set up buildings, roadways etc.
The home farm, with buildings and a 9-unit parlour already in place, is maybe 70-80 acres, with a further 35 acres which would need an underpass to access for dairy.

Interesting that you say 150 cows might be manageable - I'd presume someone on the fulltime payroll would be needed to increase to that amount?

Mooooo · 25-05-2020 11:00AM

You need to know what your parents need to rake from the farm as well in terms of income. You then need to know what you will need. Mortgage for a house, family or potential family costs etc. Also if over 35 there will be stamp duty on transfer which would be significant on that acreage.

Basically a lot of planning required including accountants etc

onrail · 25-05-2020 11:05AM

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

And apologies for the philosophy on a Monday morning!

Ah sure no harm in a bit of philosophy on a Monday!

I think I'd be happy in Dairying, if I could guarantee enough income for the luxury of a day or two off every couple of weeks (outside Spring obviously). Don't want to be a millionaire, just comfortable.

Ultimately, I dislike my current job and it's not well paying, so I'd be happy to chuck that if I knew that an income from Dairying was safe to provide for my family in the long term.

Mooooo · 25-05-2020 11:06AM

onrail wrote: »

Yeah, the outfarm block is around 130 acres, but there are no existing infrastructure or buildings there. It's typically been used for young stock, silage (and even sheep back in the day!). We'd need a big investment to set up buildings, roadways etc.
The home farm, with buildings and a 9-unit parlour already in place, is maybe 70-80 acres, with a further 35 acres which would need an underpass to access for dairy.

Interesting that you say 150 cows might be manageable - I'd presume someone on the fulltime payroll would be needed to increase to that amount?

On my own here with a lad 3 days a week at 126 cows aim to get to 140 cows on 160 acres with a 10 acre outfarm all heifers and silage on block at the moment. Have a land loan which I'll be paying for another 15 years yet along with inherited debt but that should be gone in 3 years. If I can get the heifers off farm may go to 170/ 180 but will need facilities to be upgraded. Some need to be upgraded as is
Edit having said that with the loan and paying the man things were and have been tight some years but the advantage of your father still around and facilities can be done over time If needed. Know one person calving at home and takes cow's to rented outfarm to milk for main season. If you could put up a 20 unit parlour and roadways/ water on the bigger block could calve at home then. Use the dry home block and parlour for early spring grazing and take cow's down then. In time facilities could be developed then. As I said a lot of planning commitment and knowing what you and your folks want is the key

bogman_bass · 25-05-2020 11:07AM

I tried it. Lasted 6 months at it. Would not recommend.

Kevhog1988 · 25-05-2020 11:14AM

onrail wrote: »

Ah sure no harm in a bit of philosophy on a Monday!

I think I'd be happy in Dairying, if I could guarantee enough income for the luxury of a day or two off every couple of weeks (outside Spring obviously). Don't want to be a millionaire, just comfortable.

Ultimately, I dislike my current job and it's not well paying, so I'd be happy to chuck that if I knew that an income from Dairying was safe to provide for my family in the long term.

if you dislike the current job and have 200 acres at your disposal to farm id go at the farming full time. Theres no point splitting yourself at a job you dislike and one you like as youll end up hating and resenting both if your tight for time constantly.

25-05-2020 11:16AM

Would a robot to milk the cows be a thought.

Know of one lad who came home they'd 60 sucklers and he changed to 80 milking cows.
He is a civil engineer and has his office in the yard. It is a superbly ran setup. Now he does has his father to move the fence during the day if he has to visit a site.

onrail · 25-05-2020 11:26AM

DukeCaboom wrote: »

Would a robot to milk the cows be a thought.

Know of one lad who came home they'd 60 sucklers and he changed to 80 milking cows.
He is a civil engineer and has his office in the yard. It is a superbly ran setup. Now he does has his father to move the fence during the day if he has to visit a site.

I wouldn’t rule it out; although I’d guess you’re looking at €150-200k of an investment.

I’m a civil engineer myself - would enjoy chatting to yer man to see how he’s getting on.

Bass Reeves · 25-05-2020 12:33PM

onrail wrote: »

I wouldn’t rule it out; although I’d guess you’re looking at €150-200k of an investment.

I’m a civil engineer myself - would enjoy chatting to yer man to see how he’s getting on.

With that sort of a land bank it gives you choices. However At a guess it's not all top quality land.

However you can go dairying fulltime with 100-150 cows. You have the option of a robot milking 60-80 cows and continue the beef operators is. Suckler's are an option you run 150+ and sell the weinlings in the Autumn or drop back to 100 HEX type cows run an LM or easy calving CH and carry everything to finish.

However I see you say you father runs a beef operation, I imagine finishing the progeny of his dairy herd. It would be easy enough to go calf to beef or store to beef and continue as a civil engineer. This could give you the option to semi retire in your 50's( go self employed) and farm away

Mooooo · 25-05-2020 12:38PM

Issue with robot is cost tbh. You could have a decent 20 unit parlour in for the price of one of em and for 2 you'd have a share of cubicles put in as well. Then again if you think they'd suit check out everthing but talk to farmers using them, not when the rep is showing you around.

Bass Reeves · 25-05-2020 12:48PM

Mooooo wrote: »

Issue with robot is cost tbh. You could have a decent 20 unit parlour in for the price of one of em and for 2 you'd have a share of cubicles put in as well. Then again if you think they'd suit check out everthing but talk to farmers using them, not when the rep is showing you around.

Parlour means you go fulltime, it would be possible to continue his job and milk with a robot. If he continues working robot is written off tax wise at 40%tax rate. However if I was staying working I go for a complete beef system ideally store to finish, but calf to beef or Suckler to beef would be decent options as well.

Mooooo · 25-05-2020 01:05PM

With that acreage the investment in parlour and facilities compared to robot would allow him to farm fulltime. Also can be easier to get someone to milk at a set time than deal with a robot which is stopped for whatever reason, particularly if there isn't a second one to work thru some of the cow's. All different options should def look at them all

Morris Moss · 25-05-2020 01:15PM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Parlour means you go fulltime, it would be possible to continue his job and milk with a robot. If he continues working robot is written off tax wise at 40%tax rate. However if I was staying working I go for a complete beef system ideally store to finish, but calf to beef or Suckler to beef would be decent options as well.

A few lads in the discussion group have robots, they all seem happy enough with them, but they did say that even though they don't milk they don't have less work it's just different.

Bass Reeves · 25-05-2020 01:34PM

Morris Moss wrote: »

A few lads in the discussion group have robots, they all seem happy enough with them, but they did say that even though they don't milk they don't have less work it's just different.

Yes I agree, all robot would do is take out the physical milking and move work to a time you can do it after work. However it might allow him to continue dairying with his father help for the next 10years. However if he wishes to continuing work a beef operation is the most likely choice. Suckler would still require time tied to calving and an exceptionally busy spring. A tidy beef operation with BPS, enviormental scheme etc would generate a 60k+ profit on a land bank of that size for 20-30 hours a week

Siamsa Sessions · 25-05-2020 02:02PM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

A tidy beef operation with BPS, enviormental scheme etc would generate a 60k+ profit on a land bank of that size for 20-30 hours a week

Comparing beef to dairy is interesting. I bumped into a neighbour last week who used to do calf-to-beef but switched to dairy in 2019.

He has 40 acres grazing around the parlour and an out farm leased 6-7 miles away. He's milking 45 cows now and does some baling/wrapping on the side (like he always did).

Decent SFP as he received some entitlements from the National Reserve a few years back. Good operator and a welder by trade, he's no slave but isn't afraid of work either. Only thing he had to finance he said was a 30k slatted unit for slurry storage, so no massive loan.

Reckons he had as much profit with the cattle as he has now with the cows, but with extra work involved. The milk cheque every month, compared to a few beef cheques in Autumn, is the only big advantage, he said.

onrail · 25-05-2020 02:09PM

Thanks for all the feedback lads. No such thing as a bad suggestion. I get what you’re saying about beef working in best with off-farm work, but how sustainable is the market likely to be long term? Things don’t seem to be going on a great trajectory at the moment?

Mulumpy · 25-05-2020 02:18PM

I used to manage to juggle a job with dairying for few years but got out 5 years ago. Have a small land base and family was expanding so something had to give. I enjoyed my job more than milking though. Kept dry stock for couple of years but started contract rearing this year. It ties in nicely with the job so happy how things are going so far and have lots of time for family as well.

greenfield21 · 25-05-2020 02:20PM

Don't forget about the dairy market either, these good times don't last forever. Alot of farmers now entering dairying here with possibly more supply coming online in the years ahead will only take price one way. At least you are already supplying a processor so no issues getting supply out the gate.

Anyone managing an off-farm job with dairying?

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