Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - Read OP for Mod Warnings

CruelSummer · 21-05-2020 08:24PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'm just back in the Republic from 6 hours hiking in the North. It was the best day I've had since the beginning of these restrictions. I met a friend of mine from Rostrevor on the track to the mountains and we headed off from there. We met a few other groups of 6 Northern hikers all thrilled to bits to be back out in the great outdoors. Since yesterday you can go anywhere you like for exercise in the North within groups of 6.
Both Warrenpoint and Rostrevor were busy, lots of people about, coffee shops doing take out goods, plus you can sit outside , they all have tables and chairs out, supermarkets and small shops all open as well as garden centers. There was a real buzz.

The ironic thing about today is that my friend has already planned 2 trips to the South in the next few weeks to do some hiking and touring. He has a tent so will be self sufficient. He's delighted it will be so quiet in the South! Yet I live in Louth and we cant go further than 5km. Not until after July 20th, 2 months away, can anyone go further than 20km (the hikers I chatted to on the mountains today couldn't believe this ). I would have more chance of being stopped going 8km in the South than if I drive over the border to hike. Yet Northerners can come down here and travel anywhere they want.

Met no checkpoints at all today, once you get over the border there are no police and no restrictions. People are treated like adults. Nobody is flaunting social distancing, even on the hills. I'd strongly recommend anyone who is feeling depressed and restricted and who lives in Louth, Donegal or other border counties to head North for a day out away from the oppressiveness here.

Delighted you’d a nice day Sweetmaggie, well deserved :-)

lawrencesummers · 21-05-2020 08:25PM

CruelSummer wrote: »

Ok thanks for that. You could’ve given it without the dig at the start...But at least I know where you’re coming from now.
Personally I think we’re far too slow to exit lockdown. The data suggests the fit and healthy do ok with this virus and we need them out generating employment, tax revenues and living life. The government and NPHET don’t seem to acknowledge this and their message has many people absolutely terrified, even to go out to the shop.
Homewares and all other shops should be open under the same rules as hardware if they are able to comply with the current rules.
I agree the 5km rule is very tough on people, we haven’t seen extended close family in months at this stage. It doesn’t make any sense. Practising social distancing and other safeguards as we exit make much more sense to me than this. Could the government not lift the travel limit & put a numbers capacity on popular public amenities if this is what they’re worried about? They could give twitter updates saying capacity reached, etc. Some beaches in France are using roped off areas for people to attend safely, with a time limit of 3 hours. It’s a good idea and could be used here, instead of us all having to stay within 20km for June.
Subject to numbers over the coming weeks, I also think we need to forget this ‘new normal’ concept. These measures should be temporary and subject to outbreaks, hospital pressures, etc. I’ll be very interested to see how Denmark fares in the coming weeks as they’re looking to reduce the social distance between people to 1 metre. I don’t think it’s feasible long term to have social/physical distancing in place. Children in particular will be badly affected by this, and the ‘pod’ idea is a recipe for disaster in my view at schools.

It wasn’t a dig, it was a response to your post.

I would expect that the roadmap won’t play out the way they it is written, and you can make specific points about it being flawed in some small areas, but overall it has to achieve the goal of no second lockdown.

So one step forward, analyze the data, and another step if the data is good.

is_that_so · 21-05-2020 08:26PM

LiquidZeb wrote: »

So you know more than an Oxford professor of epidemiology?

I reviewed what she said and learnt nothing new. If you want to pirouette with knicker elastic over that, be my guest.

lawrencesummers · 21-05-2020 08:27PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Nothing in her posts suggests she added any appreciable risk to anyone.

So should we leave it up to everyone to decide Themselves what they think is acceptable?

snowcat · 21-05-2020 08:27PM

lawrencesummers wrote: »

It’s one thing to openly flout the medical advice that has been given, it’s another to boast about it and rub peoples noses in it who are conforming to the guidelines even if they don’t want to.

The hills aren’t going anywhere. People are unfortunately and your selfishness is quiet frankly ****ing disgusting.

Ah will you go away. I have rooms rented to students. About 50 rooms. They all left in mid march and 90% just locked their rooms and left. Some moved out straight away. About 10. All live 100's kilometers away. So out of the 40 i have 3 rooms left where people have not moved out. I never pressured anyone to leave or even contacted them. So out of 40 37 have moved out. So 37 out of 40 people broke the limit. Those figures are not good

growleaves · 21-05-2020 08:28PM

lawrencesummers · 21-05-2020 08:29PM

RobitTV wrote: »

You are sadly honestly deluded. What is with the mass hysteria and utter misery?

This guy had a great day out while maintaining social distancing guidelines. He got out in the fresh air and enjoyed the company of his friends.

He will now feel much better in himself after today, mentally and physically.

There are guidelines in place for a reason, nobody likes them, nobody wants them, but for it to work it requires people to abide by them. If everyone can decide what works and what doesn’t where will that end up?

is_that_so · 21-05-2020 08:29PM

lawrencesummers wrote: »

So should we leave it up to everyone to decide Themselves what they think is acceptable?

That's what we do with adults when we ascribe a virtue like personal responsibility to them.

RobitTV · 21-05-2020 08:29PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

You're free not to agree with it. It's a free country

Opening is dependent on the behaviour of the virus.

As i'm blue in the face repeating opening can be brought forward if the virus is suppressed in the community.

It's quite likely it will be assuming the number of new infections continues to decline and level off a low base.

Well yes, as it happens, i am very much free to agree or to disagree with you or anyone on here as we live within a free society.

You can agree or disagree with many of us on here and that's perfectly fine with me.

21-05-2020 08:31PM

Mike3287 wrote: »

Something is up because it doesnt seem to spread easily at all for a virus lauded as extremely contagious

Its been around since November and infected less than 5% of population in most countries worldwide 6 months later.

But then every man, woman and child had the flu going around at Christmas, yet Covid19 was supposedly many times more contagious than a flu

They've overlooked something these scientists with Covid that's for sure

I know 1 guy that had it, had no symptoms and infected none of his family members, 3 kids, wife, his colleagues, residents, this guy is loud, talks alot

They were all tested anyway, as he works in nursing home and all negative except him

I would be confident they dont have antibodies either if they were tested

Either the test he got was a false positive, Covid19 isn't that contagious or alot of people have a hidden immunity that they cant test for currently

Something is up that's for sure

You want to be very naive to think our half assed lockdown could stop a supposedly novel contagious virus with no immunity in its tracks lol

Average 7 day incubation and r0 of 4 means in the first month the virus would infect about 300 people. Next month 80,000 - China locked down at this point and a small number of cases escaped to Europe. Starting at 200, another month would get another 60,000 cases or so and another month 20 million or so at which point rest of the world have some degree of lockdown slowing things again

lawrencesummers · 21-05-2020 08:31PM

snowcat wrote: »

Ah will you go away. I have rooms rented to students. About 50 rooms. They all left in mid march and 90% just locked their rooms and left. Some moved out straight away. About 10. All live 100's kilometers away. So out of the 40 i have 3 rooms left where people have not moved out. I never pressured anyone to leave or even contacted them. So out of 40 37 have moved out. So 37 out of 40 people broke the limit. Those figures are not good

What the fu£k are you talking about?

Some people rent rooms so you can ignore the restrictions???

polesheep · 21-05-2020 08:32PM

Breezin wrote: »

Actually hilarious. She's Professor of Theoretical Epidemiology at the University of Oxford! You don't like her science and you're damned if you're gonna listen to it.

If she's not a member of Nphet then she doesn't count as an expert, don't you know.

21-05-2020 08:33PM

lawrencesummers wrote: »

It’s one thing to openly flout the medical advice that has been given, it’s another to boast about it and rub peoples noses in it who are conforming to the guidelines even if they don’t want to.

The hills aren’t going anywhere. People are unfortunately and your selfishness is quiet frankly ****ing disgusting.

I'm not even going to justify except to say after "conforming to guidelines" completely alone for 10 weeks (and that is what they are: guidelines) I was thrilled to go hiking today. You are free to do the same if you wish. You're not in jail.

If these restrictions are going to be dragged out until August, they need to be treated with common sense and cop on (as Simon would say). I live alone, I drove up alone, I hiked about 15 feet apart from my companion for 6 hours .

When I walk around the area I live I am bumped into and have to step on to the road to avoid the crowds and gangs of kids playing outside my front door.
I filled the tank with diesel before I left home.

Reading your recent posts and your swearing at me , I suggest you should step away from your computer for a bit, take a hike, breath deeply and try and get some perspective. People's outrage doesn't bother me in the slightest. I am responsible for my own mental health. Have a lovely evening!

Micky 32 · 21-05-2020 08:34PM

I’m not sure why we are all bickering on here about a lockdown. I just went on my exercise on the bike 10.1km return ;-). I think i saw as many cars on the road as i did last December.

lawrencesummers · 21-05-2020 08:35PM

is_that_so wrote: »

That's what we do with adults when we ascribe a virtue like personal responsibility to them.

Have you missed the parts of the world all around you that have restrictions, limitations, laws, legislation???? Because they exist everywhere for a very good reason.

Should we remove drink driving limits and put personal responsibility in its place? Maybe legalize heroin because people are personally responsible? Do truck have tocographs for the good of their health?

The sad truth is that people can not be trusted to do the right thing. Open the pubs and they will be full, and people will be drunk, and the owners won’t care because they are greedy.

snowcat · 21-05-2020 08:36PM

lawrencesummers wrote: »

What the fu£k are you talking about?

Some people rent rooms so you can ignore the restrictions???

Will you think before posting. Im talking about the tenants.

21-05-2020 08:36PM

RobitTV wrote: »

You are sadly honestly deluded. What is with the mass hysteria and utter misery?

This guy had a great day out while maintaining social distancing guidelines. He got out in the fresh air and enjoyed the company of his friends.

He will now feel much better in himself after today, mentally and physically.

Thanks RobitTV. I'm a "she"

but you're post is appreciated and spot on.
Mentally I feel 100% better than I did yesterday!

21-05-2020 08:40PM

lawrencesummers wrote: »

So should we leave it up to everyone to decide Themselves what they think is acceptable?

The majority of people know how to behave themselves and avoid risk. Someone should not be vilified for engaging in an activity that has no added risk.
Myself, today, needed to get some IT equipment from work. Took the wife and kids with me. 25km away. Left them in the car and collected what I needed using hand sanitizer and wearing a mask per site guidelines. Went to woodies for a few bits I needed. Family remained in the car. Wife picked up a click and collect in Smyth’s. I remained in car with kids. We took a walk through the centre of town with kids and got ice cream. Away from other people at all times, taking precautions. Do I feel guilty? Do I ****

RobitTV · 21-05-2020 08:40PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Thanks RobitTV. I'm a "she" but you're post is appreciated and spot on.
Mentally I feel 100% better than I did yesterday!

Oh i'm sorry :pac: i'm so deep in the debate now i forget to look at the usernames :pac::pac:

Yeah i hope you had a great day out and i would advise everyone to get outdoors and get some fresh air and sun on themselves and enjoy it!

Getting outdoors and enjoying it is not a crime!

lawrencesummers · 21-05-2020 08:40PM

Deleted User wrote: »

not surprised to see your outrage Lawrence, reading your other posts.
I'm not even going to justify except to say after "conforming to guidelines" completely alone for 10 weeks (and that is what they are: guidelines) I was thrilled to go hiking today. You are free to do the same if you wish. You're not in jail.

If these restrictions are going to be dragged out until August, they need to be treated with common sense and cop on (as Simon would say). I live alone, I drove up alone, I hiked about 15 feet apart from my companion for 6 hours .

When I walk around the area I live I am bumped into and have to step on to the road to avoid the crowds and gangs of kids playing outside my front door.
I filled the tank with diesel before I left home.

Reading your recent posts and your swearing at me , I suggest you should step away from your computer for a bit, take a hike, breath deeply and try and get some perspective. People's outrage doesn't bother me in the slightest. I am responsible for my own mental health. Have a lovely evening!

You can find as many reasons to justify it to yourself as you want but it comes down to one thing. Selfishness.

I was supposed to climb Carrountouhill with a friend a week before the lockdown, cancelled it because of what was happening and a number of vulnerable
Peopl are at home, Looking forward to doing it soon when the experts tell me I can.

I often cycle my bike 80km, haven’t done that in a long time and the weather is brilliant.

I don’t agree with the rules, but I accept they are there for a reason, and a very good reason, so you keep justifying to yourself what your are doing is ok and hope that this disease doesn’t claim anyone close to you.

Jackman25 · 21-05-2020 08:41PM

lawrencesummers wrote: »

You can find as many reasons to justify it to yourself as you want but it comes down to one thing. Selfishness.

I was supposed to climb Carrountouhill with a friend a week before the lockdown, cancelled it because of what was happening and a number of vulnerable
Peopl are at home, Looking forward to doing it soon when the experts tell me I can.

I often cycle my bike 80km, haven’t done that in a long time and the weather is brilliant.

I don’t agree with the rules, but I accept they are there for a reason, and a very good reason, so you keep justifying to yourself what your are doing is ok and hope that this disease doesn’t claim anyone close to you.

What is the very good reason someone can't travel to walk on their own in mountains?

SusieBlue · 21-05-2020 08:41PM

lawrencesummers wrote: »

So should we leave it up to everyone to decide Themselves what they think is acceptable?

That’s what pretty much everyone has been doing anyway.
I’ve been calling to my friends garden a few times a week for the last 2/3 weeks, she lives in a housing estate and most of her neighbours have had guests in their gardens too at some point or another when I’ve been visiting, long before may 18th.
People feel like they have played their part and made more than enough sacrifice and aren’t willing to wait another 12 weeks.

With a bit of cop on and social distancing there is no reason to keep this stupid 5km rule and to stop humans interacting with each other.
It’s unnatural and unhealthy and was only ever supposed to be a very short term measure.
In fact Simon Harris promised it was only a short term sacrifice, he never mentioned anything about restriction of movement and keeping people out of work for just under half a year when all this kicked off.

21-05-2020 08:46PM

I just went over to SuperValu for a pack of skittles and some club orange. The queue is out the door even approaching 9pm on a fairly chilly evening. People are sick of been holed up at home.

The floodgates are already opening and we’re still in phase 1.

It’s great to see though. We have to get back to normal now. Can’t be letting a mild illness destroy our way of life.

Cocooning should still be in place for the vulnerable who can possibly die from Covid. And people that are afraid should be free to remain at home and collect a basic welfare.

ceadaoin. · 21-05-2020 08:47PM

Mike3287 wrote: »

Something is up because it doesnt seem to spread easily at all for a virus lauded as extremely contagious

Its been around since November and infected less than 5% of population in most countries worldwide 6 months later.

But then every man, woman and child had the flu going around at Christmas, yet Covid19 was supposedly many times more contagious than a flu

They've overlooked something these scientists with Covid that's for sure

I know 1 guy that had it, had no symptoms and infected none of his family members, 3 kids, wife, his colleagues, residents, this guy is loud, talks alot

They were all tested anyway, as he works in nursing home and all negative except him

I would be confident they dont have antibodies either if they were tested

Either the test he got was a false positive, Covid19 isn't that contagious or alot of people have a hidden immunity that they cant test for currently

Something is up that's for sure

You want to be very naive to think our half assed lockdown could stop a supposedly novel contagious virus with no immunity in its tracks lol

I posted this earlier.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/05/why-do-some-covid-19-patients-infect-many-others-whereas-most-don-t-spread-virus-all#

The evidence is showing that most people don't spread it, even within the same household. Most of the cases are linked to "super spreaders" and clusters that don't have one these people or events will burn out.

RobitTV · 21-05-2020 08:48PM

lawrencesummers wrote: »

You can find as many reasons to justify it to yourself as you want but it comes down to one thing. Selfishness.

I was supposed to climb Carrountouhill with a friend a week before the lockdown, cancelled it because of what was happening and a number of vulnerable
Peopl are at home, Looking forward to doing it soon when the experts tell me I can.

I often cycle my bike 80km, haven’t done that in a long time and the weather is brilliant.

I don’t agree with the rules, but I accept they are there for a reason, and a very good reason, so you keep justifying to yourself what your are doing is ok and hope that this disease doesn’t claim anyone close to you.

I cannot believe you are criticising someone for going outdoors. Don't you know that generally the permanent population on mountains is literally non-existent? Who is she endangering? nobody.

Is she endangering the sheep perhaps? we better get them all tested.

daydorunrun · 21-05-2020 08:48PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I just went over to SuperValu for a pack of skittles and some club orange. The queue is out the door even approaching 9pm on a fairly chilly evening. People are sick of been holed up at home.

The floodgates are already opening and we’re still in phase 1.

It’s great to see though. We have to get back to normal now. Can’t be letting a mild illness destroy our way of life.

Cocooning should still be in place for the vulnerable who can possibly die from Covid. And people that are afraid should be free to remain at home and collect a basic welfare.

Good luck sleeping tonight:pac:

lawrencesummers · 21-05-2020 08:48PM

This is all taking a very familiar pattern.

Person breaks rules.
Person justifies breaking rules by downplaying their actual activity and referencing their “struggle” and how much they have sacrificed.
Person knows more than all the experts that are working on this.
Person thinks the rules are ridiculous in their particular situation because it didn’t do any harm.

You all keep justifying to yourselves what you are doing if you want to, but the guidelines are in place because peoples Movement needs to be restricted at the moment.

One incident of bending the rules might seem fine, but that’s because the majority can conform.

So you had a nice day up the hill today, what if 200 people decide tommorow it’s ok to go up the hill, and 400 the day after. Is that still ok?

And then one falls, and need medical help, and mountain rescue. Then what, it’s ok for you to put them
in danger because going for a walk 5km from your own house didn’t suit you?

snowcat · 21-05-2020 08:50PM

lawrencesummers wrote: »

You can find as many reasons to justify it to yourself as you want but it comes down to one thing. Selfishness.

I was supposed to climb Carrountouhill with a friend a week before the lockdown, cancelled it because of what was happening and a number of vulnerable
Peopl are at home, Looking forward to doing it soon when the experts tell me I can.

I often cycle my bike 80km, haven’t done that in a long time and the weather is brilliant.

I don’t agree with the rules, but I accept they are there for a reason, and a very good reason, so you keep justifying to yourself what your are doing is ok and hope that this disease doesn’t claim anyone close to you.

You need to use your intelligence. There is no experts here. No one knows how this disease is progressing. Do what you know is safe. Look whats happening in other countries. Learn from that. Wear a face mask if you see fit. Use extreme social distancing. Disinfect everything if it makes you feel better. Do NOT listen to the experts as this is a NEW virus that NO ONE understands.

Mike3287 · 21-05-2020 08:50PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I just went over to SuperValu for a pack of skittles and some club orange. The queue is out the door even approaching 9pm on a fairly chilly evening. People are sick of been holed up at home.

The floodgates are already opening and we’re still in phase 1.

It’s great to see though. We have to get back to normal now. Can’t be letting a mild illness destroy our way of life.

Cocooning should still be in place for the vulnerable who can possibly die from Covid. And people that are afraid should be free to remain at home and collect a basic welfare.

Its ridiculous at this stage

March - August

Nearly 6 months of under 20km travel

Are they insane

growleaves · 21-05-2020 08:50PM

Don't you know that generally the permanent population on mountains is literally non-existent? Who is she endangering

The hills are alive with the sound of music. Will they still be alive after maggie has traipsed about the place?

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - Read OP for Mod Warnings