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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Comments

  • #5792
    LiquidZeb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,254 ✭✭✭LiquidZeb


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    It seems broadly under control but our figures for cases and deaths remain significantly above Austria and Denmark but low enough that we could begin reopening process.

    But wait I thought you said there was no point as we'd only be back to square one come Autumn?


  • #5793
    Ginger n Lemon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,447 ✭✭✭Ginger n Lemon


    LiquidZeb wrote: »
    You'd best share this info with Germany and Denmark. Clearly those impulsive fools are seconds from catastrophe.

    This :D:D:D


  • #5794
    CruelSummer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,324 ✭✭✭CruelSummer


    Interesting check of flight radar this morning, huge numbers of flights over and around Germany. Very quiet elsewhere in Europe. Anyone know the reason as to why German skies are so busy again?


  • #5795
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,109 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    LiquidZeb wrote: »
    But wait I thought our economy was going to collapse with or without a lockdown, now you're talking about restricting visitors from countries who don't have a handle on things. Holohan himself has said it's essentially gone from the community, how much lower do you want our numbers to go?

    You are saying the economy will collapse, I never said that.

    I said we may require international assistance if measures need to be restored which would be an IMF bailout package.

    It's amazing people seem to think something fundamental has changed between Feb and now regarding COVID.


  • #5796
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    NegativeCreep wrote: »
    Is the disease not under control here?
    Yes, but we're not where we'd like to be!


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  • #5797
    LiquidZeb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,254 ✭✭✭LiquidZeb


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    You are saying the economy will collapse, I never said that.

    I said we may require international assistance if measures need to be restored which would be an IMF bailout package.

    And that was such a brilliant experience last time.


  • #5798
    NegativeCreep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,351 ✭✭✭NegativeCreep


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Yes, but we're not where we'd like to be!

    Where would we like to be?


  • #5799
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,109 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    LiquidZeb wrote: »
    And that was such a brilliant experience last time.

    Not a choice if country is locked out of the debt markets.

    You get a lifeline in return for reform.

    Surely it is best to avoid such an outcome by not being reckless.


  • #5800
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    NegativeCreep wrote: »
    Where would we like to be?
    As low as we possibly can.


  • #5801
    LiquidZeb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,254 ✭✭✭LiquidZeb


    NegativeCreep wrote: »
    Where would we like to be?

    I don't know I guess come mid August the lockdown fairy will fly to all the good children who obeyed restrictions and make everything magically safe after that precise date. Not before or after.


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  • #5802
    FishOnABike
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,839 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    Ginger n Lemon wrote: »
    I read

    "World Health Organization (WHO) chief scientist Dr Soumya Swaminathan says that children are "less capable" of spreading the virus, and are at "very low risk" of getting ill from the disease.

    "What we have seen in countries where schools have remained open is that there have not been big outbreaks in schools."

    at bottom of article. seem very safe?

    good morning btw
    Again the devil is in the detail. The article also reports It is still not clear how infectious anyone is if they have very mild symptoms or no symptoms at all - of any age.

    It also reports on a study looking at cases in Shenzhen in China at the beginning of the year which suggested children were just as likely to catch the virus, raising the fear that they were transmitting it without showing any symptoms.

    Context is everything when interpreting any study. The studies of clusters of infections in family groups across China which concluded, based on contact tracing, that none of the infections were likely to have been introduced by children, spanned the period when affected provences were under severe lockdown e.g. only one person per household allowed out for two hours every second day to buy essential provisions. - hardly circumstances where a child is likely to be the person out and about and likely to have introduced the infection to a household.

    The schools which partially opened (thinking of the post showing children isolated in painted boxes in the playground) and implemented social distancing where there was already a decrease in community prevalence of CoViD-19, due to restrictions implemented, did not result in a significant increase in cases. Except in France where several schools were shut down again when cases of CoViD-19 were identified in the schools.

    Having heard some of our own politicians state things for which there is not enough evidence for one view or another I'd be concerned that policy decisions would be made based on headlines of articles on reports into studies without appreciating the content and context of the studies themselves.

    It's about as logical to conclude that as child drivers do not contribute significantly to motor vehicle collisions therefore it is safe to let children drive.


  • #5803
    NegativeCreep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,351 ✭✭✭NegativeCreep


    is_that_so wrote: »
    As low as we possibly can.

    Thanks Tony


  • #5804
    LiquidZeb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,254 ✭✭✭LiquidZeb


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    Not a choice if country is locked out of the debt markets.

    You get a lifeline in return for reform.

    Surely it is best to avoid such an outcome by not being reckless.

    So do you think Austria and Germany are being reckless? What about all the people whose livelihoods are going to be destroyed by what you're suggesting? It all sounds a bit let them eat cake tbh.


  • #5805
    MrDavid1976
    Closed Accounts Posts: 305 ✭✭MrDavid1976


    is_that_so wrote: »
    As low as we possibly can.

    How low is low? A number? If all the cases are in under control clusters, is that low enough?


  • #5806
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    https://twitter.com/FergalBowers/status/1263436041316380674?s=19


  • #5807
    uli84
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,749 ✭✭✭uli84


    ednwireland wrote: »
    hse are refusing to do cancer screenings as its too dangerous (i think thats what he said in the dail committee yesterday)

    yet opticians and dentists are open

    i know of someone diagnosed at the start of march has had nothing from the hse, honestly they need to get there fingers out.

    Too dangerous, good joke, honestly


  • #5808
    Mic 1972
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭Mic 1972


    LiquidZeb wrote: »
    But wait I thought you said there was no point as we'd only be back to square one come Autumn?


    Lifting restrictions means the numbers will slowly increase, Autumn is an estimate of when the pandemic will ride high again. Nobody pinpointed August as a square one moment. And by the way August is not even an Autumn month


  • #5809
    uli84
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,749 ✭✭✭uli84


    is_that_so wrote: »
    They are not high risk locations and dentists are well well-kitted out anyway. As for the medical side when HIQA are flagging hospital issues it's still unsafe. Nobody involved in such programmes has any issues with the pause at present.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/urgent-action-required-to-curb-infection-risk-in-hospitals-hiqa-warns-1.4258548

    Cervical cancer Or diabetic retina Screenings Are NOT done at hospitals. It’s a disgrace these are not restarted yet and seems there isn’t even any plan to restart them.


  • #5810
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    LiquidZeb wrote: »
    So do you think Austria and Germany are being reckless? What about all the people whose livelihoods are going to be destroyed by what you're suggesting? It all sounds a bit let them eat cake tbh.

    I wouldn't even bother at this stage. Its quite clear that said poster is happy to see the country potentially remain in what is more or less a lockdown with many businesses closed and some wont ever reopen. The cost of this they're happy to take as a bailout and another few years of higher taxes and austerity again....it clearly wont effect him/her so they couldn't care less about those that it would hit harder.

    We'll probably be told we're awful people for wanting to go back to work and back to seeing our families and not waiting another 2-3 months to do so.


  • #5811
    robbiezero
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,718 ✭✭✭robbiezero


    Mic 1972 wrote: »
    Lifting restrictions means the numbers will slowly increase, Autumn is an estimate of when the pandemic will ride high again. Nobody pinpointed August as a square one moment. And by the way August is not even an Autumn month

    From where?


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  • #5812
    Ginger n Lemon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,447 ✭✭✭Ginger n Lemon


    Either reality hits or mask is slipping

    ‘No such thing as free money’ - Taoiseach warns Covid-19 borrowings have to be repaid"

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/oireachtas/no-such-thing-as-free-money-taoiseach-warns-covid-19-borrowings-have-to-be-repaid-1.4259259?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2Foireachtas%2Fno-such-thing-as-free-money-taoiseach-warns-covid-19-borrowings-have-to-be-repaid-1.4259259

    But thats ok. According to one poster here we ll ask IMF for "assistance". Get in the queue for food vouchers

    PS will Leo & Co be in charge when we are repaying? nah i am just joking, I know he wont be.


  • #5813
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,109 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Mic 1972 wrote: »
    Lifting restrictions means the numbers will slowly increase, Autumn is an estimate of when the pandemic will ride high again. Nobody pinpointed August as a square one moment. And by the way August is not even an Autumn month

    I don't get this obsession with the timeline for reopening given flexibility is built in.

    People getting flustered over nothing.


  • #5814
    Nermal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,836 ✭✭✭Nermal


    The Results of Europe’s Lockdown Experiment Are In

    https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2020-opinion-coronavirus-europe-lockdown-excess-deaths-recession/

    But, as our next chart shows, there’s little correlation between the severity of a nation’s restrictions and whether it managed to curb excess fatalities — a measure that looks at the overall number of deaths compared with normal trends...

    Early data show that countries with harsher responses to Covid-19 also suffered more economically.


  • #5815
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    What we all knew, except for those that have been on here saying just keep borrowing it'll never be paid back etc etc
    https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1263439933345345537?s=19


  • #5816
    Mic 1972
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭Mic 1972


    robbiezero wrote: »
    From where?


    From everywhere outside this board


  • #5817
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    uli84 wrote: »
    Cervical cancer Or diabetic retina Screenings Are NOT done at hospitals. It’s a disgrace these are not restarted yet and seems there isn’t even any plan to restart them.
    As I said there is widespread medical agreement on the halting of anything like that. They'll happen as soon as they are deemed safe to do.


  • #5818
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    I don't get this obsession with the timeline for reopening given flexibility is built in.

    People getting flustered over nothing.

    If I replied to this as I wanted to I'd probably get a ban

    Ultimately the frustration on here is having to reply to posters who seem to think their opinions are facts, there will be a second wave, there will be this there will be that. All opinion, both arguments have opinion, some posters like to think its fact. And yes Mr Frog you have portrayed your opinion as fact at times

    Facts are we can only look at other countries and the facts in Europe are so far no 2nd wave currently experienced and no sudden surge in countries where restrictions have been and are being lifted.

    Yet here we are, mass unemployment (which you'll no doubt dispute) and strangling the life out of the economy for another 2-3 months which some people seem happy to take. Not to mention the open invitation to welcome the IMF with open arms.

    Now can you see why people would like to go back to work to try and make sure they still have a job or a business, earn money, see their family... do I need to go on?


  • #5819
    Ginger n Lemon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,447 ✭✭✭Ginger n Lemon


    stephenjmcd wrote: »
    What we all knew, except for those that have been on here saying just keep borrowing it'll never be paid back etc etc
    https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1263439933345345537?s=19

    "we do not need to be best boys in fiscal class"

    He put governments economic response over the last 3 months really well in 1 sentence.


  • #5820
    MrDavid1976
    Closed Accounts Posts: 305 ✭✭MrDavid1976


    is_that_so wrote: »
    As I said there is widespread medical agreement on the halting of anything like that. They'll happen as soon as they are deemed safe to do.

    What does safe to do so mean? Will that take account of the risk of not doing anything? Is it to ensure social distancing protocols and PPE is available? Or is it dependent on the 'low' figure you mentioned above on the general restrictions.


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  • #5821
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    MrDavid1976 wrote: »
    What does safe to do so mean? Will that take account of the risk of not doing anything? Is it to ensure social distancing protocols and PPE is available? Or is it dependent on the 'low' figure you mentioned above on the general restrictions.
    No idea. You should contact the HSE and ask them.
    You missed the joke in the "low" figure, others got it!


This discussion has been closed.
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