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Social welfare lied about me

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13

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    #62
    Leham
    Registered Users Posts: 48 ✭Leham


    lughildanach wrote: »
    Sounds like what has happened here is that you have tried to appeal the overpayment demand rather than the underlying social welfare decision. Overpayment demands are not appealable.

    What is actually appealable is the revised decision regarding the Jobseekers entitlement. What makes things even more complicated in some cases is that the original revised decision is never actually communicated to the claimant. This would mean that no overpayment legally exists. But it won't stop them chasing you for it.

    If a revised decision has been issued, this needs to be appealed. Even if the decision is correct (and by the sounds of it, it is not), if the error is on the part of the Department, the Appeals Officer can decide to give effect to the decision from a current date instead of backdating the decision. This would have the effect of cancelling any overpayment.

    The area is quite technical. You should seek professional assistance.


    Thanks for this. It is all so technical, I dont know what professional assistance I can seek?

    My plan for now is to go to the post office and try and get copies of singed social welfare reciepts from September/October.

    I am just kicking myself that I didnt make copies of forms etc that I handed into social welfare when applying for casual workers.


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    #63
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Leham wrote: »
    Hi, sorry I think you have misread my post.
    I wasnt signing on x's and o's. I tried to claim casual workers back in October but was denied and told I owe 1015 euro. I have not been recieving any social welfare payments.

    X’s and O’s are casual workers. As others have said, you need get an account of all payments. If you’re registered on myGov.ie I think they’ll be there.


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    #64
    Leham
    Registered Users Posts: 48 ✭Leham


    Deleted User wrote: »
    X’s and O’s are casual workers. As others have said, you need get an account of all payments. If you’re registered on myGov.ie I think they’ll be there.

    Thanks, yes I know x's and o's are casual payments. This is what I tried to apply for originally. Ill check mygov.ie thanks.


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    #65
    square ball
    Registered Users Posts: 391 ✭✭square ball


    Leham wrote: »
    I did this. I first sent a letter stating my case to the manager of the deciding officer, I specifically asked that it was to be looked over by the manager and not the deciding officer, this was at the advice of the lady on the desk. The letter was given to the deciding officer and not the manager despite my request.

    The deciding officer stuck with his decision, I was told by someone else in social welfare that I could send the letter to the appeals. The deciding officer tried to stop me from doing this. He wanted me to sign the letter and told me to write 'I do not want this to go to the appeals office' at the bottom of the letter, I refused to write this and told him I did want to appeal it.

    I was told to send the letter and nothing else, if documentation is needed, they will contact me. They never contacted me. All payslips and requested documents had been given to the intreo office when I applied for casual dockets at the end of October/Early November.

    When I finally got the appeal decision back, on Friday just gone, the letter indicates that the intreo office or deciding officer told the appeals that I did not provide any pay slips and that they tried to communicate with me unnsuccessfully. Neither of these statements are true.

    This leads me to think that the intreo office or deciding officer either mistakenly gave them false information or purposly did so for what ever reason, I dont know what that reason is, make of it what you will.

    So how much did you receive and how much are they trying to recoup as an overpayment?

    At every stage of every transaction with the DEASP you were either given incorrect information or someone went out of their way to screw you over.

    I find it hard to believe that the deciding officer, manager and appeals officer all came to the same decision but you actually have an entitlement and they assessed an overpayment against you.


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    #66
    BohsCeltic
    Registered Users Posts: 1,576 ✭✭✭BohsCeltic


    Leham wrote: »
    Ill check mygov.ie thanks.

    I can't log into that. They either don't send a text with the code or they send it late so it expires. Headache again.


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    #67
    Leham
    Registered Users Posts: 48 ✭Leham


    square ball wrote: »
    So how much did you receive and how much are they trying to recoup as an overpayment?

    At every stage of every transaction with the DEASP you were either given incorrect information or someone went out of their way to screw you over.

    I find it hard to believe that the deciding officer, manager and appeals officer all came to the same decision but you actually have an entitlement and they assessed an overpayment against you.

    The deciding officer and appeals are the only ones who looked at and made a decision about my case. Wrongful information was given to appeals, they told appeals I did not give pay slips and thay also told appeals that they tried to communcate with me unnsuccessfully - they didnt.
    To me, its comes across as the deciding officer gave wrongful information to the appeals which may have effected the outcome.


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    #68
    Leham
    Registered Users Posts: 48 ✭Leham


    Just to add the deciding officer I was dealing with is no longer working in the intreo center, he was only there for a short time, when I tried to communicate with him after Christmas, he was gone.


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    #69
    square ball
    Registered Users Posts: 391 ✭✭square ball


    Leham wrote: »
    The deciding officer and appeals are the only ones who looked at and made a decision about my case. Wrongful information was given to appeals, they told appeals I did not give pay slips and thay also told appeals that they tried to communcate with me unnsuccessfully - they didnt.
    To me, its comes across as the deciding officer gave wrongful information to the appeals which may have effected the outcome.

    You had opportunities to provide additional information and attend the appeals meeting if you wished.

    How come you didn't provide the payslips or dispute the 'wrongful information' then?

    How much are they assessing and how much did you receive?


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    #70
    snowgal
    Registered Users Posts: 1,783 ✭✭✭snowgal


    its quite a confusing thread to get through......
    If you were not doing X and Os then you must have been receiving the standard €203 per week yes? And then some weeks you did not claim this? It seems you were on the wrong scheme and in effect were receiving the 203 JSA and also actual pay some of that time? Am I missing something else here?


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    #71
    Leham
    Registered Users Posts: 48 ✭Leham


    square ball wrote: »
    You had opportunities to provide additional information and attend the appeals meeting if you wished.

    How come you didn't provide the payslips or dispute the 'wrongful information' then?

    How much are they assessing and how much did you receive?

    I didnt know I could attend an appeals meeting? I wasnt informed of this.

    Dispute the wrongful information when? Ive only just found out on Friday as it's stated on the letter I recieved. Ive been disputing the over payment since I recieved notification about it.

    Theyre stating I owe 1015, I will have to obtain copies of the reciepts before I know exactly how much I owe. Id imagine its roughly 400 - 600. I know I didnt take out money each week within those 5 weeks and didnt work for each of those weeks. I couldnt have as those 5 weeks include a mid term break and one week where I wasnt called by the school to come in at all.


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    #72
    Leham
    Registered Users Posts: 48 ✭Leham


    snowgal wrote: »
    its quite a confusing thread to get through......
    If you were not doing X and Os then you must have been receiving the standard €203 per week yes? And then some weeks you did not claim this? It seems you were on the wrong scheme and in effect were receiving the 203 JSA and also actual pay some of that time? Am I missing something else here?

    Yes this is correct. I was trying to get on the right pay as I was working casually but I could not get accurate information from the intreo center.
    Most weeks that I worked over the 5 week period I worked 1 - 4 days, I should have been on some sort of supplementary payment atleast some of the time.
    The weeks I worked very few hours, I claimed social welfare as I couldnt support myself otherwise. I told social welfare I claimed while working. I did not claim every week as they are stating I did.


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    #73
    snowgal
    Registered Users Posts: 1,783 ✭✭✭snowgal


    Leham wrote: »
    Yes this is correct. I was trying to get on the right pay as I was working casually but I could not get accurate information from the intreo center.
    Most weeks that I worked over the 5 week period I worked 1 - 4 days, I should have been on some sort of supplementary payment atleast some of the time.
    The weeks I worked very few hours, I claimed social welfare as I couldnt support myself otherwise. I told social welfare I claimed while working. I did not claim every week as they are stating I did.

    ah ok. Well the fact you were on this JSA rate is wrong to begin with. Thats where the €1015.00 is obviously coming from as they are taking the FULL amount back for those 5 weeks (5 x €203) as they are saying you were ineligible for that payment as you were working during that time. Technically this is correct but why you were on the JS is the part Im not sure of.....


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    #74
    Leham
    Registered Users Posts: 48 ✭Leham


    snowgal wrote: »
    ah ok. Well the fact you were on this JSA rate is wrong to begin with. Thats where the €1015.00 is obviously coming from as they are taking the FULL amount back for those 5 weeks (5 x €203) as they are saying you were ineligible for that payment as you were working during that time. Technically this is correct but why you were on the JS is the part Im not sure of.....

    Yes exactly, theyre taking the full amount for the 5 weeks which is more than what I claimed. I tried to get on to the right payment. They are now saying, according to appeals, that they tried to contact me unsuccessfully (Whatever that even means?) which isnt true. I was constantly in with them trying to get onto the correct pay and trying to get information.


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    #75
    square ball
    Registered Users Posts: 391 ✭✭square ball


    Leham wrote: »
    I didnt know I could attend an appeals meeting? I wasnt informed of this.

    Dispute the wrongful information when? Ive only just found out on Friday as it's stated on the letter I recieved. Ive been disputing the over payment since I recieved notification about it.

    Theyre stating I owe 1015, I will have to obtain copies of the reciepts before I know exactly how much I owe. Id imagine its roughly 400 - 600. I know I didnt take out money each week within those 5 weeks and didnt work for each of those weeks. I couldnt have as those 5 weeks include a mid term break and one week where I wasnt called by the school to come in at all.

    You can request an oral hearing. It is in the legislation and is written on the gov.ie and citizens information websites. All the information and legislation the Deciding Officer is working from is available to you also.

    What exactly did you appeal then?

    Put your grievance in writing to the social welfare office and ask for a breakdown of the dates you were overpaid.

    Did you get the 5 weeks pay together from your employer. If you were on €203.00 per week they are assessing 5 full weeks payment from you. They probably assessed the overpayment based on the total pay you received divided by number of weeks worked from the date your employment started until it finished as the payslips were probably submitted after the payments had been cashed at the post office.

    If you did not cash the payments at the post office it can take up to three weeks for the payments to show up as not collected in the Intreo Centre. They should not be assessing this against you obviously if you did not receive it.


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    #76
    dartboardio
    Registered Users Posts: 2,436 ✭✭✭dartboardio


    So do you know how much you physically went down to the post office and received?

    Surely this would help in determining how much you're actually supposed to pay back

    If you know how much/how many weeks you actually collected a payment and how much that was


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    #77
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    dartboardio wrote: »
    So do you know how much you physically went down to the post office and received?

    Surely this would help in determining how much you're actually supposed to pay back

    If you know how much/how many weeks you actually collected a payment and how much that was

    The SW keep a copy of every receipt you sign in the PO when you collect your payment. The date is on it, the name of your payment, some of your PPSN and the exact amount you collected. And of course your handwritten signature. If you ask them for copies of the copy they’ll gladly supply.


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    #78
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Leham wrote: »
    Thanks for this. It is all so technical, I dont know what professional assistance I can seek?

    My plan for now is to go to the post office and try and get copies of singed social welfare reciepts from September/October.

    I am just kicking myself that I didnt make copies of forms etc that I handed into social welfare when applying for casual workers.

    Why would the PO have copies of the receipts you signed??


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    #79
    Leham
    Registered Users Posts: 48 ✭Leham


    splinter65 wrote: »
    Why would the PO have copies of the receipts you signed??

    Hi Splinter

    I contacted social welfare and asked if I could obtain copies of receipts that I signed, as suggeted by you..
    splinter65 wrote: »
    Yes certainly they’ll be more then happy to let you see copies of all the receipts you signed in the PO.

    The lady I was speaking to in the intreo office told me that social welfare doesnt keep copies of signed reciepts, she can only send me a statement indicating money I was paid during this time, she mentioned I could check with the post office as they might have some record.

    A statment of payments is not the same as signed receipts indicating I signed for and collected money.


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    #80
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Leham wrote: »
    Hi Splinter

    I contacted social welfare and asked if I could obtain copies of receipts that I signed, as suggeted by you..



    The lady I was speaking to in the intreo office told me that social welfare doesnt keep copies of signed reciepts, she can only send me a statement indicating money I was paid during this time, she mentioned I could check with the post office as they might have some record.

    A statment of payments is not the same as signed receipts indicating I signed for and collected money.

    If you were getting your payment in the post office then you were getting a full weeks Jobseekers. Were there any weeks that you worked even for a couple of hours on one day that you also went to the PO and collected SW?


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    #81
    Leham
    Registered Users Posts: 48 ✭Leham


    splinter65 wrote: »
    If you were getting your payment in the post office then you were getting a full weeks Jobseekers. Were there any weeks that you worked even for a couple of hours on one day that you also went to the PO and collected SW?

    Yes, any week that I only worked a couple of hours, they were the only weeks that I collected social welfare, during the 5 weeks I collected social welfare maybe 3 times.


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    #82
    BohsCeltic
    Registered Users Posts: 1,576 ✭✭✭BohsCeltic


    splinter65 wrote: »
    The SW keep a copy of every receipt you sign in the PO when you collect your payment. The date is on it, the name of your payment, some of your PPSN and the exact amount you collected. And of course your handwritten signature. If you ask them for copies of the copy they’ll gladly supply.
    Leham wrote: »
    Yes, any week that I only worked a couple of hours, they were the only weeks that I collected social welfare, during the 5 weeks I collected social welfare maybe 3 times.

    I know from experience that if you work more than 3 day's, even if it is only for a little you cannot claim.

    When i was on a 3 day week my employer often asked me to work an extra day which would mean i could not claim.
    So we came to an agreement, it was either 3 days or if they needed extra it would have to be 5 day's payment from them and none from welfare.


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    #83
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Leham wrote: »
    Yes, any week that I only worked a couple of hours, they were the only weeks that I collected social welfare, during the 5 weeks I collected social welfare maybe 3 times.

    When you say that you collected welfare on weeks that you only worked a couple of hours, did you sign off for those days that you worked? Your posts are a bit confusing.


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    #84
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Leham wrote: »
    Yes, any week that I only worked a couple of hours, they were the only weeks that I collected social welfare, during the 5 weeks I collected social welfare maybe 3 times.

    Any week you worked even a couple of hours you weren’t entitled to €203. As €203 is the only amount of JS that you can collect in the post office and they are demanding the entire €203 back then you should supply them with proof from your employer/employers of the hours you worked so that they can consider your claim further.
    I rang our own SW office today on your behalf and that’s what they advise.


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    #85
    snowgal
    Registered Users Posts: 1,783 ✭✭✭snowgal


    splinter65 wrote: »
    Any week you worked even a couple of hours you weren’t entitled to €203. As €203 is the only amount of JS that you can collect in the post office and they are demanding the entire €203 back then you should supply them with proof from your employer/employers of the hours you worked so that they can consider your claim further.
    I rang our own SW office today on your behalf and that’s what they advise.

    That I was getting out with my last post to the OP. The fact is that they were on jobseekers so of course when welfare are looking at the case and this person claimed the money during this time while obviously still working means they are looking for that full jobseekers amount back for the five weeks. Obviously some misunderstanding at the beginning as to why this person was on jobseekers rather than the X and 0. They need to To go back and explain this to sw


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    #86
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    snowgal wrote: »
    That I was getting out with my last post to the OP. The fact is that they were on jobseekers so of course when welfare are looking at the case and this person claimed the money during this time while obviously still working means they are looking for that full jobseekers amount back for the five weeks. Obviously some misunderstanding at the beginning as to why this person was on jobseekers rather than the X and 0. They need to To go back and explain this to sw

    Any future correspondence between the OP and the Dept needs to be by letter or email.


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    #87
    Leham
    Registered Users Posts: 48 ✭Leham


    splinter65 wrote: »
    Any week you worked even a couple of hours you weren’t entitled to €203. As €203 is the only amount of JS that you can collect in the post office and they are demanding the entire €203 back then you should supply them with proof from your employer/employers of the hours you worked so that they can consider your claim further.
    I rang our own SW office today on your behalf and that’s what they advise.

    Yes I know im not an entitled to full social welfare when I work. I am well aware of this. I told them I can provide proof that I only worked maybe 1 to a handful of hours those weeks, they know this is it was indicated on the form I filled out when I tried to switch by JA to casual workers.

    The main issue is, they are accusing of me having claimed for 5 weeks in a row. I didnt take out money every one of those weeks that theyre saying I did.

    They also told appeals - according to the letter they sent me - that it was "noted" that there were "unnsuccessful attempts to contact me" regarding me working and claiming and that "I didnt give them payslips"

    There were no unnsuccessful attempts to contact me so why would they say that to appeals? I was in and out of social welfare constantly in Septmeber and October trying to find out what help, if any, was available while I worked casually and temporarily.

    I was speaking to the deciding officer several times in the intreo and on the phone during October/November when he was looking over my claim for casual workers.

    They have my payslips and a form signed and stamped by the school indicating my wages.

    They also have full access to my revenue.

    Why would they lie and say I didnt give them payslips? It makes no sense and makes me sound like I was deliberatly lying. Why would they do that?


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    #88
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    OP, Are you single or in a relationship? If in a relationship and your partner’s income is assessed, then it’s possible that you’re not entitled to unemployment assistance. There are many variables that we’re not privy to. You need keep calm. Collect all documents, copy them, then go back to Intreo. They’re really not all ogres. In my interactions with them, I’ve never come across a difficult one! You should also clarify your contact details, just in case an error was made there.


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    #89
    Leham
    Registered Users Posts: 48 ✭Leham


    Deleted User wrote: »
    OP, Are you single or in a relationship? If in a relationship and your partner’s income is assessed, then it’s possible that you’re not entitled to unemployment assistance. There are many variables that we’re not privy to. You need keep calm. Collect all documents, copy them, then go back to Intreo. They’re really not all ogres. In my interactions with them, I’ve never come across a difficult one! You should also clarify your contact details, just in case an error was made there.

    Im single, I havnt left out any details in my posts. Ive tried to get someone in social welfare to listen to me but they wont, they are jumping down my neck before I even open my mouth.


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    #90
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Leham wrote: »
    Im single, I havnt left out any details in my posts.

    Ok. Start again from scratch. Take all necessary documentation but make sure that you keep copies. Once you and they see everything written down ye might be able to make sense of it. If you don’t understand what’s being said, and it can be bewildering, ask them to explain it to you.


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    #91
    Leham
    Registered Users Posts: 48 ✭Leham


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Ok. Start again from scratch. Take all necessary documentation but make sure that you keep copies. Once you and they see everything written down ye might be able to make sense of it. If you don’t understand what’s being said, and it can be bewildering, ask them to explain it to you.

    Half the problem is they are so unnapproachable and constantly giving me wrong or misinformed information. They dont want to listen or help, they want to catch people out on lies, they have total contempt for anyone on the system and see to get a genuine trill out of making life that little bit more difficult for people on social welfare. It is a nightmare trying to speak to them. I have tried, as a last resort, I am writing on boards to try and get help else where.


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