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Covid19 Part XVII-24,841 in ROI (1,639 deaths) 4,679 in NI (518 deaths)(28/05)Read OP

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  • #6092
    ZX7R
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,393 ✭✭✭ZX7R


    bekker wrote: »
    Too little, far too late, NPHET will remain primarily a creature of DOH, HSE, the context has already been set.

    I fear the same


  • #6093
    Ficheall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,038 ✭✭✭Ficheall


    growleaves wrote: »
    ...such as handwashing, wearing masks, social distancing and prohibitions on gatherings, should be put in place
    The fly in the ointment.


  • #6094
    mandrake04
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,435 ✭✭✭mandrake04


    What Username Guidelines wrote: »
    I think its mostly hopeful that it may slow or peter out. Most recent previous pandemics, albeit influenzas, tended to come in waves, and seasonally. 1918s deadly 2nd wave actually hit in summer, which was odd, but still burned out eventually. But from what we know about this one, with long incubation and being contagious pre-symptoms, it's hard to imagine how it could, unless it mutates into something less transmissible.

    One thing I do not understand about mutations, is that if it's so widely spread across the globe, lets say I pick up a mutated less deadly version, wouldnt that happen uniquely in that one transmission? How does a virus mutate across hundreds of thousand transmissions in-sync? Or does it?

    Mutations I believe is usually a mistake in the replication of the genetic material, the more hosts it jumps into and more replications the more chance something go wrong. It like buying billions of quick pick lotto ticket, but only few will hit the jackpot. But the more you buy the more chances you have of winning.

    This is probably how this virus started, something that is common in animals but not in humans...fragmented genetic replication that then can interface with human cells. In the SARS-Covid-2 it’s a enzyme that acts a viral receptor called ACE2.


  • #6095
    An Ciarraioch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,806 ✭✭✭An Ciarraioch


    Hopefully just a temporary blip in the ICU figures, rising from 51 yesterday to 55 today.


  • #6096
    Mike3287
    Closed Accounts Posts: 379 ✭✭Mike3287


    mandrake04 wrote: »
    Mutations I believe is usually a mistake in the replication of the genetic material, the more hosts it jumps into and more replications the more chance something go wrong. It like buying billions of quick pick lotto ticket, but only few will hit the jackpot. But the more you buy the more chances you have of winning.

    This is probably how this virus started, something that is common in animals but not in humans...fragmented genetic replication that then can interface with human cells. In the SARS-Covid-2 it’s a enzyme that acts a viral receptor called ACE2.

    Whats common in many animals and not just bats?


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  • #6097
    BorneTobyWilde
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,583 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    wakka12 wrote: »
    For example? The only country that is letting it run it's course is Brazil and Brazil is definitely not looking to be coming out the better of that so far


    They are early in, will be interesting to see how it pans out. They'll have 1000's of cases and many deaths, and then it will vanish. But In reality Brazil should see it sweep through the country infecting millions, but I doubt it will. I see it simply running its course and dying out without them doing a thing. And for them to come out of it with same stats as say Italy, or Uk .


  • #6098
    Mike3287
    Closed Accounts Posts: 379 ✭✭Mike3287


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    They are early in, will be interesting to see how it pans out. They'll have 1000's of cases and many deaths, and then it will vanish. But In reality Brazil should see it sweep through the country infecting millions, but I doubt it will. I see it simply running its course and dying out without them doing a thing. And for them to come out of it with same stats as say Italy, or Uk .

    Its interesting all right

    The low hanging fruit analogy is true in all works of life

    I wouldn't like to be a scientific advisor right now for a novel virus


  • #6099
    An Ciarraioch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,806 ✭✭✭An Ciarraioch


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    They are early in, will be interesting to see how it pans out. They'll have 1000's of cases and many deaths, and then it will vanish. But In reality Brazil should see it sweep through the country infecting millions, but I doubt it will. I see it simply running its course and dying out without them doing a thing. And for them to come out of it with same stats as say Italy, or Uk .

    Except, of course, that the Amazonian Indians lack the biological resistance to infectious diseases generally acquired through a Western lifestyle, with various diseases decimating their population in the past.


  • #6100
    BorneTobyWilde
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,583 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    Trump must have Covid-19, it's just kept quite. Why after a month of abandoning his push on hydroxychloroquine would he suddenly take it, starting only a few days ago. Ties in with cases at White House and his interactions with people who tested positive.
    Probably deemed top secret


  • #6101
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,109 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Eod100 wrote: »
    TheJournal doing a livelog from committee meeting, for anyone interested.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/liveblog-covid-19-committee-5102495-May2020/

    It's also live here: https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/oireachtas-tv/dail-eireann-live/

    Rich boy barrett desperately needs a hair cut!


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  • #6102
    FishOnABike
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,839 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    ZX7R wrote: »
    So NPHET are to be recommend to broaden There structure to include economic specialists and more scientific person and gender interests not be solely based on a health policy.
    This would bring them in line with European standard of special response teams.
    Finally some sence.
    I fear that would only make the government more beholden to unquestionably implement the recommendations of NPHET. As it stands NPHET's recommendations are primarily health/medical/epidemicalogical, the government's responsibility is to take these recommendations and weigh them up with reccomendarions from other area experts e.g. industry, finance, central bank and other sectors and decide policy. Creating some super committee would only be further derogating the government's responsibilities.

    The more special interest groups that are thrown into some super committee the more a tower of babel it becomes, the more cumbersome and ineffective and the more dilute it's message becomes.

    NPHET's recommendations are health driven, it's in the name National Public Health Emergency Team. It's not the National, Public Health, Industry, Economics, Gender Studies, Travellers, Minorities and whatever other sectional interest / lobby groups you want to throw in, Emergency Team. The government needs to do its job and factor NPHET's recommendations, together with advice / recommendations / information from other relevant areas, and govern. That's what they're elected and paid to do.


  • #6103
    BorneTobyWilde
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,583 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    An Ciarraioch wrote: »
    Except, of course, that the Amazonian Indians lack the biological resistance to infectious diseases generally acquired through a Western lifestyle, with various diseases decimating their population in the past.


    Doubt it will reach them


  • #6104
    New Home
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 78,112 Mod ✭✭✭✭New Home


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    Doubt it will reach them

    Look again, there have been reports already, someone posted a link here in the last couple of weeks.


  • #6105
    s1ippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,980 ✭✭✭s1ippy


    Have to say I'm actually disgusted by Mr Tony's answer about testing of healthcare workers.

    I work part-time in a job where I am going from home to home for people with disabilities and there is categorically no testing going on in these sectors. I've repeatedly raised it with the agency and they have told me there is no plan to test staff going in to these vulnerable people.

    They are vulnerable from a health standpoint in that they have comorbidities and also because many of them have no voice and cannot speak out. I wrote several letters to the Irish Times, Independent and RTÉ with my position and no coverage given. People with special needs don't consume a lot of media and their carers are usually too floored from the day to day requirements of life to have time or energy to speak out either.

    The HSE as usual are throwing disabled people to the wolves in all of this. It's a shocking situation which is being completely suppressed.


  • #6106
    bb1234567
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,513 ✭✭✭bb1234567


    UK death toll now 41,700 deaths

    39,100 in England and Wales, 2100 in Scotland, almost 500 in NI

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-almost-40-000-have-died-with-covid-19-in-england-and-wales-ons-says-11990836

    https://www.breakingnews.ie/world/coronavirus-deaths-in-scotland-rise-by-41-999943.html


  • #6107
    bb1234567
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,513 ✭✭✭bb1234567


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    They are early in, will be interesting to see how it pans out. They'll have 1000's of cases and many deaths, and then it will vanish. But In reality Brazil should see it sweep through the country infecting millions, but I doubt it will. I see it simply running its course and dying out without them doing a thing. And for them to come out of it with same stats as say Italy, or Uk .

    Has likely already surpassed deaths in UK and Italy
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/30/brazil-manaus-coronavirus-mass-graves

    There were hundreds of covid victims being buried daily in this one city alone when this article was published when Brazil's national total was just a few thousand


  • #6108
    MerlinSouthDub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,627 ✭✭✭MerlinSouthDub


    s1ippy wrote: »
    Have to say I'm actually disgusted by Mr Tony's answer about testing of healthcare workers.

    I work part-time in a job where I am going from home to home for people with disabilities and there is categorically no testing going on in these sectors. I've repeatedly raised it with the agency and they have told me there is no plan to test staff going in to these vulnerable people.

    They are vulnerable from a health standpoint in that they have comorbidities and also because many of them have no voice and cannot speak out. I wrote several letters to the Irish Times, Independent and RTÉ with my position and no coverage given. People with special needs don't consume a lot of media and their carers are usually too floored from the day to day requirements of life to have time or energy to speak out either.

    The HSE as usual are throwing disabled people to the wolves in all of this. It's a shocking situation which is being completely suppressed.

    Absolutely extraordinary that they are not being tested, particularly when we are being told we have test capacity of 100,000 tests per week and only half of this is being used. The errors by NPHE and HSE are stacking up, and I hope that we see much more challenge by the media of their approach.


  • #6109
    Gregor Samsa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,140 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    What Username Guidelines wrote: »
    One thing I do not understand about mutations, is that if it's so widely spread across the globe, lets say I pick up a mutated less deadly version, wouldnt that happen uniquely in that one transmission? How does a virus mutate across hundreds of thousand transmissions in-sync? Or does it?
    ek motor wrote: »
    As for the mutations, I'd imagine it mutates in a single transmission and then transmits to others as that 'mutated' strain. I'd be interested in hearing how mutations are caused ? It's been postulated that Europe and the US have been hit with a deadlier (G614 ?) mutation and the fatality figures here would seem to bear that out compared to Asia.

    Mutations happen when the virus is replicating inside the host cell it has infected. It basically injects its genetic material (RNA) into the nucleus of the host cell, and hijacks it to create copies of the virus, the cell is compromised or destroyed in the process, which causes illness. The copies of the virus then go on and infect other cells within that person, replicating further. Most of the time, the copies are identical to the original. Sometimes, there's a chance variation in the copy, whrere something in the RNA comes out a little different. This is a mutation.

    Most mutations are detrimental to the virus - they make the copy unviable. When that happens, the copy dies and the mutation dies with it.

    Some mutations however, are beneficial to the virus. They give it an advantage over the original, maybe in terms of being able to survive against the immune system or being able to withstand other environmental stresses.

    So if a mutation arises that gives the virus an advantage over the original, it will begin to dominate the infection in that person. In time, if that person spreads the virus, it will be that mutation that dominates the spread, and then the improved mutation gets out into the environment. If that advantage is big enough out in the wider environment, then that strain will begin to dominate.

    Given that we're restricting populations globally at the moment, any successful mutations should be confined to the population that the originate in, so different geographic areas could potentially see different strains dominate.

    Viruses tend to mutate towards less severe forms. This is because if a strain develops that makes more people very sick, it tends to have less of a chance of spreading to others. Remember, it's not the "intention" of the virus to make people sick or kill them. The only thing driving it is the act of replication. The fact that it causes illness is an unintended by-product. If it mutates towards a version that causes less severe illness, that's to the virus' advantage as it has more chance to spread and replicate, so that mutation will tend to dominate. This is why very severe and highly fatal illnesses like Ebola don't spread as far.

    A mutation may or may not have an impact on the success of immunity or vaccination. It all depends on the nature of the mutation. If the mutation affects an area of the virus that antibodies rely on to work, then immunity will be nullified. If not, then it won't.

    What you're seeing with mutations in a virus like this is basically evolution in action, but on a much faster scale, given that viruses replicate incredibly fast and in very large numbers. While it would take many generations and thousands of years for a mutation in humans to become dominant, viruses can potentially do it in a matter of weeks. The good news is that mutations rely on chance and luck, and overwhelmingly more often than not, they come to nothing for the virus.


  • #6110
    FishOnABike
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,839 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    growleaves wrote: »
    Unscientific and nonsensical: Top scientist slams government’s lockdown strategy

    I think this is more a criticism of unscientific restrictions such as the ban on selling open toe sandals. I don't think we've banned selling specific forms of footwear as part of our response to CoViD-19.

    She also criticises the scheduled lifting of restrictions without having a proper population wide test, trace and quarantine system in place in contrast with other countries which are lifting restrictions.

    The article appears more to be a criticism of her own countries flawed response than a criticism of restrictions in general.


  • #6111
    Eod100
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,152 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    s1ippy wrote: »
    Have to say I'm actually disgusted by Mr Tony's answer about testing of healthcare workers.

    I work part-time in a job where I am going from home to home for people with disabilities and there is categorically no testing going on in these sectors. I've repeatedly raised it with the agency and they have told me there is no plan to test staff going in to these vulnerable people.

    They are vulnerable from a health standpoint in that they have comorbidities and also because many of them have no voice and cannot speak out. I wrote several letters to the Irish Times, Independent and RTÉ with my position and no coverage given. People with special needs don't consume a lot of media and their carers are usually too floored from the day to day requirements of life to have time or energy to speak out either.

    The HSE as usual are throwing disabled people to the wolves in all of this. It's a shocking situation which is being completely suppressed.

    Could you send letters to CMO, Simon Harris or HSA either anonymous or not? Also try to get something in writing from your employer, you could forward that to the above to query it.


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  • #6112
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    bekker wrote: »
    Too little, far too late, NPHET will remain primarily a creature of DOH, HSE, the context has already been set.
    Then its purpose would have to be redefined as it is a creature of the MoH's making in scenarios of health issues. Hopefully when this is over and it's dissolved, we won't have to hear of another NPHET in relation to COVID-19.


  • #6113
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    MerlinSouthDub wrote: »
    Absolutely extraordinary that they are not being tested, particularly when we are being told we have test capacity of 100,000 tests per week and only half of this is being used. The errors by NPHE and HSE are stacking up, and I hope that we see much more challenge by the media of their approach.
    Aren't they tested in hospital settings anyway? Most of that 100,000 is community testing capacity.


  • #6114
    Gregor Samsa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,140 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    Mike3287 wrote: »
    Whats common in many animals and not just bats?

    Some species of bats are a (relatively) common source of mutated pathogens because they have an excellent immune system that makes them less susceptible to illness than many other animals. Only a virus that mutates to the extent of overcoming it can thrive in them. They're a bit like a filter in that regard - only the stronger strains of viruses tend to get passed on by them. They've developed this heightened immune system due to living in extremely close proximity to each other - pathogens can spread very easily within their colonies when they're all literally living on top of eachother. In order to survive that, they themselves have evolved to handle it.


  • #6115
    Eod100
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,152 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    Trump must have Covid-19, it's just kept quite. Why after a month of abandoning his push on hydroxychloroquine would he suddenly take it, starting only a few days ago. Ties in with cases at White House and his interactions with people who tested positive.
    Probably deemed top secret

    It's hard to know what to believe. I think he's lying though tbh. Nothing in this letter from his doctor confirms that he is. He'll probably come out in a few days and say he was being sarcastic, shows the media is fake news. Usual spoofology from him.

    https://twitter.com/PaulaReidCBS/status/1262536550367268864


  • #6116
    US2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,651 ✭✭✭US2


    Managed to drive 60kms this morning without meeting a checkpoint, about time! Things are improving


  • #6117
    Christy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,106 ✭✭✭Christy42


    Eod100 wrote: »
    It's hard to know what to believe. I think he's lying though tbh. Nothing in this letter from his doctor confirms that he is. He'll probably come out in a few days and say he was being sarcastic, shows the media is fake news. Usual spoofology from him.

    https://twitter.com/PaulaReidCBS/status/1262536550367268864

    Let's not forget that at one point he was supposedly healthier than any president whoever lived.


  • #6118
    nacho libre
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,604 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    They are early in, will be interesting to see how it pans out. They'll have 1000's of cases and many deaths, and then it will vanish. But In reality Brazil should see it sweep through the country infecting millions, but I doubt it will. I see it simply running its course and dying out without them doing a thing. And for them to come out of it with same stats as say Italy, or Uk .

    Mass graves in Manaus. Sao Paulo hospitals on the verge of collapse that is the reality of letting the virus run its course in Brazil. As for the number of deaths beng recorded, it is likely well wide of the true figure.


  • #6119
    Gregor Samsa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,140 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    US2 wrote: »
    Managed to drive 60kms this morning without meeting a checkpoint, about time! Things are improving

    I’ve driven from Clare to Dublin and back 3 times in the past 2 weeks and didn’t meet one checkpoint.


  • #6120
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,109 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    It's been a great time for wildlife all the same


    https://twitter.com/marceldirsus/status/1262071031591849987


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  • #6121
    ek motor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 548 ✭✭✭ek motor


    Delirium 'may be common' in Covid seriously ill - BBC


    'Doctors should look out for depression, anxiety and post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) after recovery.'

    https://www.bbc.com/news/health-52706277

    I remember reading before that psychiatric problems were also prevelant in those who recovered from the original SARS. I'll see can i dig out a link.


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