Mens Rights Thread

2u2me wrote: »

It has taken quite a hold in India, but interesting point. Why has it not taken a hold in China? Is it because of lack of representation or are they not allowed to coordinate in some way or is material banned from publication/distribution?

Well, regarding China, it would be for a number of reasons.

You already find women working in almost every field. There's already women working in bin collection, construction (menial work same as the men), etc. In just about every aspect of Chinese society, you will find women working alongside men. There is a serious difference in authority when you look at management or other leadership roles, where women are often just used as a screen, with real authority being elsewhere. However, there doesn't tend to be the coddling that happens in Western nations. There is a degree of equality in China already... it's just pretty brutal to both genders.

Secondly, I suspect that feminism tends to find support in richer countries where women have more time and resources to organise. In a poorer country, tradition, and the basic needs of survival, take precedence over feminist "ideals". The difference being that in China, any successful woman will have gained her success due to family, guanxi1(relationships/favors), and by permission of the males in her circle. They know that, and don't want to lose that position... equality would mean genuine competition with other men.. a level playing field.

Third, History. The few times that women have reached the same levels of power as men, they've apparently abused that power. So, there's a certain stigma against women in positions of power over men. You'll find very rich women, and women who are the genuine owners of companies, but there's still very much a structure that binds their behavior.

Fourth, interest. There's little actual interest in changing the status quo. Most women I know, and have spoken to about these things (rich and poor) like their place in their society. They don't want to have to sacrifice a family lifestyle and need to work the long hours as the men do.. (a generalisation though.. since for the poor/uneducated, everyone needs to work hard) and the men do work very long hours to achieve a measure of success. You might be born into the right family, but most people don't have that kind of influence or power. Being a male in China brings a lot of pressure.. there are benefits, but I honestly wouldn't want to be a Chinese man living in China... not due to the government but due to the culture. If a woman is even remotely attractive, she has a lot of influence in deciding her fate, whereas a man won't.

There are groups of feminists in China. I encounter them a lot in Universities, but their ideas are very shallow. And when queried, they're not ready to give up any of the advantages they have, in order to gain genuine equality. There's quite a few Chinese women who have studied in the States who return with feminist notions... but that tends to disappear once they get married, and reality sets in.

It looks like they are going to cancel the leaving cert and award predictive grades. This will likely widen the gap between girls and boys. Boys are much more likely to be late crammers.

Silentcorner wrote: »

There is probably an epidemic of misogyny or some such....The Women's Council of Ireland has been misrepresenting data for far too long...time for it to be scrapped!!!

If Feminism had any legitimate reason to exist it wouldn't need to engage in deeply dishonest practices to remain relevant and well funded.

I tend to look at Feminism a bit like the unions. There was/is a definite reason in the past for it to exist, but it's efficiently removed it's purpose to maintain an active presence. There is a need for it, as a monitor to maintain women's rights, but it's gone so far beyond equality, as to actually hurt the movement it seeks to promote.

The Women's Council of Ireland, or any such organisations aren't going to be scrapped. However, we can encourage organisations whose main aim is to protect equality for the genders... not a smokescreen for women's rights (which the UN is essentially doing), but to promote/seek actual equality. That should be the aim... alas I don't see it happening because it would mean that women would lose many benefits/advantages in society, both the older traditional advantages and the newer benefits achieved through feminism.

I honestly don't believe we've reached any kind of turning point yet. Sure, there's some exasperation about obvious feminist stupidity, and hardline stances... but pro-female agenda is still extremely strong at most levels of society. A changing of spots... women's rights/needs, but not promoted in the cause of feminism.. the elephant in the room ignored.

iptba wrote: »

All the talk about “toxic masculinity” tends to presume all the pressure comes from men when many pressures come from women in terms of implicit and explicit expectations of men.

Well, it's the case of double standards. Which is why sexism directed by feminists towards males is ignored. Just as the peer pressure, or gender pressure that women receive more often comes from other women.

I had an interesting experience before the lockdown where I went to a fashion show. The vast majority of people there were women, and they (both the audience and the participants) scrutinized each other, making pretty nasty comments regarding their appearance, both in terms of clothing styles but also physical appearance. Sure, there were some comments by guys there but it was rather toned down in comparison...and the encouragement of objectifying the women present was all coming from the women. It's a double standard that is often ignored... Discounting the the obvious creeps/moronic guys out there, I doubt too many guys are actually pushing the objectifying of women... at least not with any real intent (subconscious bias apparently covers the rest of that though... its so convenient the boxes ticked)