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If Work From Home becomes a thing...

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  • #242
    Technocentral
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,111 ✭✭✭Technocentral


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Really? Where did you get this from?

    I'm hearing the exact opposite, that WFH is here to stay, and we have to find ways to make it work.

    Before the pandemic it wasn't available to anyone I know in any grades, maybe it will be now? I meant in general before this current situation started.


  • #243
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Really? Where did you get this from?

    I'm hearing the exact opposite, that WFH is here to stay, and we have to find ways to make it work.

    Our place was all WFH is great at the start. But as lifting the Lockdown come closer they are making noises about geting everyone back in the office.


  • #244
    Biker79
    Closed Accounts Posts: 794 ✭✭✭Biker79


    Companies will be keeping an eye on the competition too, to see what other companies are offering in case of staff getting poached.

    Personally, if I could move out of Dublin and WFH in Connemara/ West Cork with 2 days per month in the Office, I would :). But only if it didn't damage my leverage/ marketability in the medium/ long term, which it might.


  • #245
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Our place (IT) found it hard to recruit people even contractors because of our refusal to allow WFH before the crisis.

    I suspect it will be even harder now. .


  • #246
    Antares35
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,845 ✭✭✭Antares35


    I don't think many companies will be fully remote. I think the new norm for most will be a combination of WFH and office days, which to me would be the perfect work/ life balance. While on balance I have loved WFH, I do miss the colleagues and the office environment for the discipline it instils etc. I also hate zoom and teleconferences. For me the ideal would be 2 days a week in the office and 3 at home.

    We have already changed in terms of some of the bigger items going forward e.g. we have decided to go for an au pair rather than crèche when I return to work. I just can't imagine putting a child into a crèche environment at the moment - though who knows how all that will change anyway.


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  • #247
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    A combination of WFH and office will mean its not worth it for many childminders to continue.


  • #248
    jrosen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,630 ✭✭✭jrosen


    beauf wrote: »
    A combination of WFH and office will mean its not worth it for many childminders to continue.

    Why do you think that?


  • #249
    Antares35
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,845 ✭✭✭Antares35


    beauf wrote: »
    A combination of WFH and office will mean its not worth it for many childminders to continue.

    Why not? You still need your child minded even if you are working from home. I know the lockdown has been an exception but it isn't really a sustainable option long term. Certainly OH or I could not do our jobs from home if we had a small child to mind. In fact, my company's WFH policy specifically states that it can only be done when suitable child-minding provisions are in place. I would assume that is standard.


  • #250
    mvl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,229 ✭✭✭mvl


    beauf wrote: »
    Our place (IT) found it hard to recruit people even contractors because of our refusal to allow WFH before the crisis.
    I suspect it will be even harder now. .
    what do you mean our refusal ? who's refusal ?

    - in the place I work they're promoting global virtual teams in most of strategic stuff last years, not one team is co-located completely (e.g. seeing examples in architecture, research - pretty interesting stuff). the exception imo are depts where hardware must be physically setup, or else, with good infrastructure/tools one should always be able to work remotely.

    PS: enough talk about the Irish worker in France - what about Switzerland ?
    https://stories.swissinfo.ch/how-the-swiss-are-moving-back-to-the-mountains?#214148


  • #251
    Addle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,817 ✭✭✭Addle


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Really? Where did you get this from?

    I'm hearing the exact opposite, that WFH is here to stay, and we have to find ways to make it work.

    I heard less than 1% of revenue’s staff HAVE to be in them office at this time. That’s an exceptional lead to follow.


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  • #252
    AprilMayJune
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 119 ✭✭AprilMayJune


    Antares35 wrote: »
    Why not? You still need your child minded even if you are working from home. I know the lockdown has been an exception but it isn't really a sustainable option long term. Certainly OH or I could not do our jobs from home if we had a small child to mind. In fact, my company's WFH policy specifically states that it can only be done when suitable child-minding provisions are in place. I would assume that is standard.

    I suppose it depends on the age of the children. Certainly with an almost 8 year old and a 10 year old living 5 mins from the school as opposed to 1 hour from work I could dispose of childcare almost entirely. I currently leave at 7.30 in office for 8.30 typically leave at 5.30 or later home just after 6.30 so childminder needed. If I WFH I could use breakfast club from 8 (school starts at 9.20) and work til 5.30. School has basketball/irish dancing etc 3 days per week from 3-4 so it would be a matter of having two children from 4-5.30 occupy themselves with homework/snacks etc. I have plenty of family on both sides that could pitch in if there was illness as childminder doesn’t take them then anyway. I also have a husband that could do the same so if I needed to be in the office/at a meeting he would be there. In addition my parents couldn’t nor would I ask them to do the hours a childminder does but a couple of hours a couple of days a week if was stuck is different.

    I really think it depends on ages of children/supports available. But especially as children are old enough to play outside/make a snack etc themselves it becomes a lot easier and could save parents a lot of money.


  • #253
    jrosen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,630 ✭✭✭jrosen


    AprilMayJune wrote: »
    I suppose it depends on the age of the children. Certainly with an almost 8 year old and a 10 year old living 5 mins from the school as opposed to 1 hour from work I could dispose of childcare almost entirely. I currently leave at 7.30 in office for 8.30 typically leave at 5.30 or later home just after 6.30 so childminder needed. If I WFH I could use breakfast club from 8 (school starts at 9.20) and work til 5.30. School has basketball/irish dancing etc 3 days per week from 3-4 so it would be a matter of having two children from 4-5.30 occupy themselves with homework/snacks etc. I have plenty of family on both sides that could pitch in if there was illness as childminder doesn’t take them then anyway. I also have a husband that could do the same so if I needed to be in the office/at a meeting he would be there. In addition my parents couldn’t nor would I ask them to do the hours a childminder does but a couple of hours a couple of days a week if was stuck is different.

    I really think it depends on ages of children/supports available. But especially as children are old enough to play outside/make a snack etc themselves it becomes a lot easier and could save parents a lot of money.

    What will you do for the 2 mid terms, christmas break, easter break and the summer holidays. Thats approx 14 weeks where your kids will be home.

    My husband works from home one day a week and picks our 10 year old up from school at 3. He says himself he is not as productive that afternoon. There is the post school chat, the homework set up. Maybe needing help. Its manageable one day a week but not every day. If you can avail of after school clubs and breakfast clubs great but not all schools have those options. It will still leave many people needing childcare.


  • #254
    AprilMayJune
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 119 ✭✭AprilMayJune


    Hence I said it depends on options and supports available. I have worked from home before and also completed a masters distance learning whilst watching my children at a younger age then they are now so I know I can be as productive.

    My childminder doesn’t take them for extra time during school breaks as she minds others and is fully booked. So I’ll continue with the summer camps using all my leave during these times never being off at the same time as my husband etc that I have done for the past 10 years, and in the meantime they’ll get older and easier. I currently get 30 days ie 6 weeks as does my husband, technically that’s 12 weeks although more like 10 when school sports days plays teacher meetings are taken into account. So really isn’t as difficult as it may appear.


  • #255
    jrosen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,630 ✭✭✭jrosen


    AprilMayJune wrote: »
    Hence I said it depends on options and supports available. I have worked from home before and also completed a masters distance learning whilst watching my children at a younger age then they are now so I know I can be as productive.

    My childminder doesn’t take them for extra time during school breaks as she minds others and is fully booked. So I’ll continue with the summer camps using all my leave during these times never being off at the same time as my husband etc that I have done for the past 10 years, and in the meantime they’ll get older and easier. I currently get 30 days ie 6 weeks as does my husband, technically that’s 12 weeks although more like 10 when school sports days plays teacher meetings are taken into account. So really isn’t as difficult as it may appear.

    I would imagine then for the average worker with 20 days annual leave, no breakfast clubs or after schools clubs they wont find it as easy as you did.


  • #256
    AprilMayJune
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 119 ✭✭AprilMayJune


    Never said it was easy I had 23 days leave until 18 months ago when I got promoted. It involved more weeks of camps. For many family’s this is much cheaper then childcare especially if the are on minimum pay extra and struggling to make ends meet. Again I said it depends on circumstances. Also not everyone works 9-5. My sister works for an American multinational and during the crisis they’re happy for people to work split shifts if necessary to have morning meeting with Europe then also be available for west coast meetings in the evenings. The juggle of doing this for a few years if possible is worth so much compared to the crippling crèche fees she currently pays and with her husband working 3 shifts in a factory they could make one of them available all day with much reduced childcare.

    Everything is not black and white. Plenty people are still juggling even with childcare and the reduction in commute could lessen costs to a degree that makes life enjoyable rather then just a grind.


  • #257
    lawred2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,741 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    bilbot79 wrote: »
    I'd be tempted to buy a little apartment in the Canaries and spend my winters there, in fact I'd probably

    1/ Sell my Dublin gaff

    2/ By a cheaper Irish gaff in the countryside

    3/ Buy a place in the Canaries

    4/ Buy another place somewhere in Europe, Hvar or somewhere like that

    And just spend weeks and months in each place.

    How would the rest of you exploit work from home if you had it permanently?

    must be one hell of a Dublin gaff you've got there


  • #258
    jrosen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,630 ✭✭✭jrosen


    AprilMayJune wrote: »
    Never said it was easy I had 23 days leave until 18 months ago when I got promoted. It involved more weeks of camps. For many family’s this is much cheaper then childcare especially if the are on minimum pay extra and struggling to make ends meet. Again I said it depends on circumstances. Also not everyone works 9-5. My sister works for an American multinational and during the crisis they’re happy for people to work split shifts if necessary to have morning meeting with Europe then also be available for west coast meetings in the evenings. The juggle of doing this for a few years if possible is worth so much compared to the crippling crèche fees she currently pays and with her husband working 3 shifts in a factory they could make one of them available all day with much reduced childcare.

    Everything is not black and white. Plenty people are still juggling even with childcare and the reduction in commute could lessen costs to a degree that makes life enjoyable rather then just a grind.

    I guess it depends on your definition of enjoyable is.


  • #259
    Fritzbox
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 502 ✭✭✭Fritzbox


    mvl wrote: »
    nah, think it is more complicated than this: for example, there may be other countries in Europe where salaries are higher than in Ireland for a specific organization: nothing stops a remote worker from applying for a role over there now. Lets use Germany for example. If someone got a job there, while wanting to keep home office in Ireland - would they get the Irish or German salary, when reporting to the German organization ?

    - and for future, would these companies keep local salary scales, or would salaries end up being "global" ?!?

    Having lived in Germany for 10 years I'm pretty sure that no Germany company would ever accept such a scenario - having a full employee working for the company, employed to deal with work processes /flows and clients based in Germany alone - but being based in Ireland? You surely don't mean self-employed status - an actual contractor to the company?


  • #260
    bilbot79
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,113 ✭✭✭bilbot79


    lawred2 wrote: »
    must be one hell of a Dublin gaff you've got there

    Nope I'ts just a regular Dublin gaff :)


  • #261
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    jrosen wrote: »
    Why do you think that?

    They won't get a full week. And it's very hard to get two family's with exact opposite childcare days.


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  • #262
    Sunny Disposition
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,970 ✭✭✭Sunny Disposition


    Was talking to a guy who would have a senior position in the Revenue. He said it was very hard to get to be allowed work from home until a few months ago, now they are all doing it. He says there are some negatives, it’s hard to manage, but they will be doing it a lot more now, will be v hard to take it back from employees after demanding they do it, he says.


  • #263
    Alter_Ego
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 196 ✭✭Alter_Ego


    salonfire wrote: »
    Now that the world knows how relatively well working remotely can function, there is a whole sub-continent that will aim itself to take your IT job off-shore.

    Be very careful of advocating how well remote working is


    You are 10 years behind, it's been tried already and it was with few small exception one big failure.



    Anything that is critical to your business has to be managed closely, not from far East.


  • #264
    mayo londoner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 169 ✭✭mayo londoner


    "Workers, like those who work on their own, as well as other workers who can keep a 2 metre distance from others can return to work."

    This is what is suggested for phase 2. Do you think many offices will chance their arm opening up on the 8th June? Wording is a bit loose in my opinion. Company I'm working for seem to be really pushing hard for a return to office, that'll be the end of WFH for good with them no doubt


  • #265
    Antares35
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,845 ✭✭✭Antares35


    AprilMayJune wrote: »
    I suppose it depends on the age of the children. Certainly with an almost 8 year old and a 10 year old living 5 mins from the school as opposed to 1 hour from work I could dispose of childcare almost entirely. I currently leave at 7.30 in office for 8.30 typically leave at 5.30 or later home just after 6.30 so childminder needed. If I WFH I could use breakfast club from 8 (school starts at 9.20) and work til 5.30. School has basketball/irish dancing etc 3 days per week from 3-4 so it would be a matter of having two children from 4-5.30 occupy themselves with homework/snacks etc. I have plenty of family on both sides that could pitch in if there was illness as childminder doesn’t take them then anyway. I also have a husband that could do the same so if I needed to be in the office/at a meeting he would be there. In addition my parents couldn’t nor would I ask them to do the hours a childminder does but a couple of hours a couple of days a week if was stuck is different.

    I really think it depends on ages of children/supports available. But especially as children are old enough to play outside/make a snack etc themselves it becomes a lot easier and could save parents a lot of money.

    Perhaps. Ours is due in ten days hence why we are looking at an au pair for the foreseeable. It will be a long time, if ever, before we let her out to play on the road. Mostly because of where we live. Its all just wait and see at the moment I suppose.


  • #266
    Antares35
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,845 ✭✭✭Antares35


    jrosen wrote: »
    I would imagine then for the average worker with 20 days annual leave, no breakfast clubs or after schools clubs they wont find it as easy as you did.

    Also I'd hate not to be able to have time off with my OH :(


  • #267
    bilbot79
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,113 ✭✭✭bilbot79


    mayo londoner wrote: »
    "Workers, like those who work on their own, as well as other workers who can keep a 2 metre distance from others can return to work."

    This is what is suggested for phase 2. Do you think many offices will chance their arm opening up on the 8th June? Wording is a bit loose in my opinion. Company I'm working for seem to be really pushing hard for a return to office, that'll be the end of WFH for good with them no doubt

    This should really only be workers who are currently not working at all and that are getting the helicopter money


  • #268
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 14,266 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    lawred2 wrote: »
    must be one hell of a Dublin gaff you've got there


    I laughed at that aswell. 3 properties from selling 1.


    His house must be worth a fortune to keep maintenance on 3 properties, local taxes, charges, insurance, etc. and presumably still have a few euro in the back pocket.


    In real life, people may opt to holiday more, or book longer stays over winter in cheap accommodation with good internet if their work allows them to, but I don't see this thing of Coronavirus turning Europe into Paddy's Playground as all the Irish in Dublin start buying up half of the world. :p


  • #269
    bilbot79
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,113 ✭✭✭bilbot79


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I laughed at that aswell. 3 properties from selling 1.


    His house must be worth a fortune to keep maintenance on 3 properties, local taxes, charges, insurance, etc. and presumably still have a few euro in the back pocket.


    In real life, people may opt to holiday more, or book longer stays over winter in cheap accommodation with good internet if their work allows them to, but I don't see this thing of Coronavirus turning Europe into Paddy's Playground as all the Irish in Dublin start buying up half of the world. :p

    This isn't unfeasible at all

    Dublin gaff 550 splits into

    Irish countryside gaff - 300
    Pad 1 abroad - 125
    Pad 2 abroad -125

    What's up doc?


  • #270
    tabby aspreme
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,219 ✭✭✭tabby aspreme


    bilbot79 wrote: »
    This isn't unfeasible at all

    Dublin gaff 550 splits into

    Irish countryside gaff - 300
    Pad 1 abroad - 125
    Pad 2 abroad -125

    What's up doc?

    It's not that easy to keep three house's, according to P Flynn


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  • #271
    M256
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 58 ✭✭M256


    If working from home becomes a mainstream thing then the market of expensive apartments in city center will collapse.


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