Covid19 Part XVII-24,841 in ROI (1,639 deaths) 4,679 in NI (518 deaths)(28/05)Read OP

is_that_so · 14-05-2020 01:10PM

Mike3287 wrote: »

He should step down for that alone

That's a HSE/HIQA remit not DoH nor CMO.

Plumbthedepths · 14-05-2020 01:10PM

DOCARCH wrote: »

My mother's nursing home did same....

Unfortunately 75% of residents and 50% of staff ended up with CV19.

Just down to luck and/or one asymptomatic staff member to bring it in. Once it's in, it's very hard to stop the spread.

You may be right, but she implemented a strict PPE regime in March. Staff entered by and left by the same door. Showered on the premises, gowned up on site. Temperature checks. Hand hygiene, masks at all times. Maybe it was luck or maybe it was the practice she implemented. Doesn't matter today all her 'charges' in still with her.

mandrake04 · 14-05-2020 01:10PM

anplaya27 wrote: »

Tbh I dont know. I got tested the 2nd and colleagues the 7th. They have got their results. I still havent. It's a bit strange.

i watched the HSE briefing on Testing and Contact Tracing

https://www.facebook.com/rtenews/videos/2403833306575342/

They admit they sending a substantial amount of tests to the German lab, its perhaps at that lab. I cant see the Aircorp flying daily, they maybe only going 3 times a week so it going take longer to get those results back.

Also I have heard plenty of stories on radio about people waiting over a month for tests and no result, so you are not alone.

bekker · 14-05-2020 01:15PM

is_that_so wrote: »

You do love to do this now don't you - pouncing on anecdotes as evidence of widespread failure! I'd tell the poster to contact the HSE because the internet can't help them.

No, not on anecdotal reports, based on facts as adduced by the DOH, HSE actions supported by the evidence of witnessing their representatives performance in front of Dáil Committees.

Plumbthedepths · 14-05-2020 01:17PM

Mike3287 wrote: »

He should step down for that alone

How Miss V. Phelan was treated should have ended his career.

Ineedaname · 14-05-2020 01:19PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

A mates daughter works in a private nursing home. Saw the unfolding ****storm in Italy , implemented several measures including restricting visitors , PPE, temperature checking of staff. Although she was directed to lift this restriction in March she ignored the direction. As of 12.55 today no Covid cases in the nursing home.

The nursing home my mother works in did similar. They were the first nursing in the area to close down. This meant no visitors and no new residents. Strict adherence to hygiene and PPE. Contingency plans to isolate residents who show symptoms. If a member of staff or anyone they lived with had so much as a sniffle they were to stay at home.

They got tested last week and on Friday they got their results. All staff and all residents negative.

Mike3287 · 14-05-2020 01:20PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

How Miss V. Phelan was treated she have ended his career.

Jesus yeah

Forgot he was involved in that

How is he still employed

wakka12 · 14-05-2020 01:25PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

A mates daughter works in a private nursing home. Saw the unfolding ****storm in Italy , implemented several measures including restricting visitors , PPE, temperature checking of staff. Although she was directed to lift this restriction in March she ignored the direction. As of 12.55 today no Covid cases in the nursing home.

He must be very proud. She saved so many lives

caveat emptor · 14-05-2020 01:34PM

mandrake04 wrote: »

i watched the HSE briefing on Testing and Contact Tracing

https://www.facebook.com/rtenews/videos/2403833306575342/

They admit they sending a substantial amount of tests to the German lab, its perhaps at that lab. I cant see the Aircorp flying daily, they maybe only going 3 times a week so it going take longer to get those results back.

Also I have heard plenty of stories on radio about people waiting over a month for tests and no result, so you are not alone.

How cost effective is it to fly to Germany everyday with tests vs building a lab? Can't be much in it.

Plumbthedepths · 14-05-2020 01:36PM

wakka12 wrote: »

He must be very proud. She saved so many lives

He is proud of her and rightly so. She on the other hand believes she was just doing her job. A very unassuming and humble woman.
He also brought some of her suggestions into our mutual place of employment. Working away with no case's of the virus either. Not public facing but deemed essential as we supply multiple medical device/equipment producers.

14-05-2020 01:38PM

seamus wrote: »

That's not saying deaths are overstated, merely that 88% of those who died had an underlying condition.

In order to check, "well was it Covid, or was it their underlying condition", then this is where the measure of excess deaths come into play. That is, we would expect the number of deaths occurring in a country to be largely predictable to within a percentage. When it drifts outside this percentage, it's a random blip. When it's way off, then a large event has affected it; such as a heatwave, cold snap, drought, or outbreak.

As of last week Italy has registered 25,000 more deaths than it would have expected by this time of the year. That's an increase of about 12.5%.

So while it can be claimed that a lot of covid deaths had underlying conditions which may have killed them instead, you still have a lot of deaths to explain.

And in the absence of any other major event, the only conclusion is that if they didn't have Covid, then these people wouldn't be dead.

There are lots of people trying to weasel their way around language technicialities online, asking questions about whether people have died "with" or "of" the disease. And other technicalities like, "Well they had other conditions, how do we know it was covid".

Pandemics don't care about technicalities. There is a virus on the loose and massive chunk of dead people that we didn't expect to be dead. Arguing the philosophical toss about what actually killed them misses the point that they would still be alive if the virus didn't exist.

makes perfect sense well put. But lets say that 12.5% increase on average Italian mortality is an unusual rise and lets agree it was covid caused 100%. That's an increase of 12.5% in a very old population at the center of what's the worst hit country in Europe... There are towns in Italy that boast having more centenarians than most places on the planet outside of Okinawa

It's hardly worth crippling the world economy if it transpires that you die with but not exactly from Covid. I mean you carry genital warts or even herpes for life, does that mean when you die of cancer they write, died WITH warts?? no they dont because cause of death has to be proven in cases outside of spontaneous human combustion.

New Home · 14-05-2020 01:38PM

caveat emptor wrote: »

How cost effective is it to fly to Germany everyday with tests vs building a lab? Can't be much in it.

A lab needs staff that needs to be paid, too, machinery that needs maintenance, chemicals that need to be stocked, etc.

Makes sense in the long term (test turnaround and capacity times improve, source of employment, etc), but for the immediate is like trying to buy a car when you can just call a taxi.

mandrake04 · 14-05-2020 01:40PM

caveat emptor wrote: »

How cost effective is it to fly to Germany everyday with tests vs building a lab? Can't be much in it.

I doubt they are flying every day, more like every 2-3 days.

Building a lab is easy enough you just need find a building and have services installed, getting a hold of equipment these days is a different story especially Molecular Analysers.

Paul Reid refused to say how much they were paying for the German tests as its a commercial agreement.

bekker · 14-05-2020 01:42PM

Mike3287 wrote: »

Jesus yeah

Forgot he was involved in that

How is he still employed

TH should have been replaced years ago, the whole tendency to leave appointees in place in this country is part of the problem, not TH as such.

He's been in place for 19 years, deputy CMO 2001, CMO 2008, he can't help but be a creature of the system which is imbued with a mushroom approach to those they purport to serve. I have no doubt that he gives his best professional opinion but that opinion is coloured.

His loyalty is primarily to the Department, not to the objectives of any particular party or government. The real problem lies in the ethos of the Departments which permeates all aspects of the State's activities to their it's detriment.

Iamabeliever · 14-05-2020 01:44PM

rusty cole wrote: »

makes perfect sense well put. But lets say that 12.5% increase on average Italian mortality is an unusual rise and lets agree it was covid caused 100%. That's an increase of 12.5% in a very old population at the center of what's the worst hit country in Europe... There are towns in Italy that boast having more centenarians than most places on the planet outside of Okinawa

It's hardly worth crippling the world economy if it transpires that you die with but not exactly from Covid. I mean you carry genital warts or even herpes for life, does that mean when you die of cancer they write, died WITH warts?? no they dont because cause of death has to be proven in cases outside of spontaneous human combustion.

So far off the mark with that analogy

poppers · 14-05-2020 01:46PM

caveat emptor wrote: »

How cost effective is it to fly to Germany everyday with tests vs building a lab? Can't be much in it.

building it is the easy part. Hire staff it, Buy analysers train everyone then get the lab accredditied. It would not be up and running this time next year.

Strazdas · 14-05-2020 01:46PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

A mates daughter works in a private nursing home. Saw the unfolding ****storm in Italy , implemented several measures including restricting visitors , PPE, temperature checking of staff. Although she was directed to lift this restriction in March she ignored the direction. As of 12.55 today no Covid cases in the nursing home.

"Advised" surely.....the government would have no authority to tell her not to implement any of those measures.

caveat emptor · 14-05-2020 01:47PM

New Home wrote: »

A lab needs staff that needs to be paid, too, machinery that needs maintenance, chemicals that need to be stocked, etc.

Makes sense in the long term (test turnaround and capacity times improve, source of employment, etc), but for the immediate is like trying to buy a car when you can just call a taxi.

Agree, but it's now may. We kinda had a heads up that we might need to be able to test.
I'm not a proponent of renting when you can borrow at 0% and build one instead of flying a plane daily somewhere.
Planes and fuel are expensive. Just look at the two peace keepers stuck in Congo. I should add that we have a strong tradition of forgetting peace keepers in the Congo. Hopefully this won't become a sequel to the movie.

Defence Forces trying to bring officers home from Congo amid safety fearsSenior officers frustrated at perceived Government delays in helping to remove officers

The Defence Forces has requested permission to deploy the Government jet,
which is operated by the Air Corps, to fly the Irish peacekeepers out.

It is understood Defence Forces Chief of Staff Vice-Admiral Mark Mellett and his general staff have alerted the Government
of fears for the Irish officers’ safety due to growing tensions in the country relating to the pandemic.

The Defence Forces has requested permission to evacuate the officers from the country as soon as possible.

It is understood British and Canadian troops have already been removed by their governments.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/defence-forces-trying-to-bring-officers-home-from-congo-amid-safety-fears-1.4253227

s1ippy · 14-05-2020 01:56PM

Strazdas wrote: »

"Advised" surely.....the government would have no authority to tell her not to implement any of those measures.

They were directed to lift restrictions on visitors tonursing homes.

is_that_so · 14-05-2020 01:58PM

Strazdas wrote: »

"Advised" surely.....the government would have no authority to tell her not to implement any of those measures.

There was actually a 24 hour gap between advising them not to to advising them to do so.

is_that_so · 14-05-2020 02:00PM

s1ippy wrote: »

They were directed to lift restrictions on visitors tonursing homes.

He actually said it was not consistent with their then advice.

New Home · 14-05-2020 02:01PM

caveat emptor wrote: »

Agree, but it's now may. We kinda had a heads up that we might need to be able to test.
I'm not a proponent of renting when you can borrow at 0% and build one instead of flying a plane daily somewhere.
Planes and fuel are expensive. Just look at the two peace keepers stuck in Congo. I should add that we have a strong tradition of forgetting peace keepers in the Congo. Hopefully this won't become a sequel to the movie.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/defence-forces-trying-to-bring-officers-home-from-congo-amid-safety-fears-1.4253227

I agree with you, but keep in mind that these labs can't be set up in a matter of months. Mind you, the cervical checks scandal, the x-ray backlog, and the general sending abroad of lab tests that's been done for years should have been enough of a heads up.

Should we address the whole recycling facilities/plants issues, too, while we're at it? :rolleyes:

New Home · 14-05-2020 02:02PM

is_that_so wrote: »

There was actually a 24 hour gap between advising them not to to advising them to do so.

24 hrs > 15 mins.

is_that_so · 14-05-2020 02:03PM

New Home wrote: »

24 hrs > 15 mins.

This looks like an equation you haven't finished!

Working class heroes · 14-05-2020 02:04PM

Mike3287 wrote: »

Problem?

Yes, I’m a sheep.

caveat emptor · 14-05-2020 02:10PM

New Home wrote: »

I agree with you, but keep in mind that these labs can't be set up in a matter of months. Mind you, the cervical checks scandal, the x-ray backlog, and the general sending abroad of lab tests that's been done for years should have been enough of a heads up.

Should we address the whole recycling facilities/plants issues, too, while we're at it? :rolleyes:

No best not. Lest we be accused of being above our station. I've had enough "why don't you be CMO" type comments for a life time. Out.

Worztron · 14-05-2020 02:16PM

Hi. What's the story with next Monday? People that live within 5km of each other can meet outside but can't visit each others homes?

stephenjmcd · 14-05-2020 02:23PM

R now between 0.4 -0.6 according to Simon Harris.

Hosptial admissions down to average of 15 per day. ICU admissions 1-2 per day

Strazdas · 14-05-2020 02:25PM

s1ippy wrote: »

They were directed to lift restrictions on visitors tonursing homes.

Depends what you mean by "directed". Private nursing homes are not under the control of the state : the govt could only offer them advice or recommendations.

Sam Russell · 14-05-2020 02:28PM

caveat emptor wrote: »

How cost effective is it to fly to Germany everyday with tests vs building a lab? Can't be much in it.

The Air Corps have to fly their aircraft, even if it is just around in circles, in order to keep the crew and plane certified.

My car has not moved in two months and now cannot move until I can buy a new battery. I would not like that to happen to our Learjet. (Well the Gov jet).

Covid19 Part XVII-24,841 in ROI (1,639 deaths) 4,679 in NI (518 deaths)(28/05)Read OP

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