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The decline continues

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Comments

  • #722
    Gloomtastic!
    Registered Users Posts: 8,297 ✭✭✭Gloomtastic!


    From the Dublin City forum.......
    odyssey06 wrote: »
    The publisher of two free local Dublin newspapers, the Northside People and the Southside People, has closed its business and is seeking to appoint a liquidator.

    I will miss the 'down memory lane' section of the paper, and the diverting headlines from Mrs Browns Boys :(

    https://www.thejournal.ie/dublin-people-northside-people-close-5095392-May2020/


  • #723
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,609 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    Unsurprising to see that the freesheets are badly hit when 80% of the print space was advertising. But Id wonder with the 350 a week payment for staff could they not have held on? The restrictions wont last forever and there will still be a demand for local papers when this is over.


  • #724
    JTMan
    Registered Users Posts: 5,535 ✭✭✭JTMan


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    But Id wonder with the 350 a week payment for staff could they not have held on?

    The statement from the group hinted at problems before Covid-19, they were struggling to compete with digital advertising. Sure they could wait, but if there were pre-existing issues, rental payments and other costs, and no level of certainty as to when normality will return, they may have made the right decision.

    Celtic Media own 49% of People Newspapers. Celtic Media lost the Reach printing contract and now this. Things cannot be going well for Celtic Media.


  • #725
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,523 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Does the Irish Times still own the majority of the Dublin Gazette? Its out of print at the moment but still updating online.


  • #726
    JTMan
    Registered Users Posts: 5,535 ✭✭✭JTMan


    Irish Times own 50% of Gazette.

    Source: https://www.ccpc.ie › 2017/05PDF
    irish times/gazette group


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  • #727
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 17,838 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    Buzzfeed is laying off staff, so its not all bad

    https://twitter.com/CNNBusiness/status/1260639218575032321

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • #728
    dulpit
    Registered Users Posts: 10,227 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    silverharp wrote: »
    Buzzfeed is laying off staff, so its not all bad

    https://twitter.com/CNNBusiness/status/1260639218575032321

    Staff losing jobs is not all bad? :confused:


  • #729
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 17,838 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    dulpit wrote: »
    Staff losing jobs is not all bad? :confused:

    they can #learntocode? All these algorithm driven outfits are a pox and an unsustainable one anyway, they have been decimated in the last couple of years as they werent making money just burning through he cash that been invested in them.

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • #730
    jmcc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,280 ✭✭✭jmcc


    silverharp wrote: »
    they can #learntocode? All these algorithm driven outfits are a pox and an unsustainable one anyway, they have been decimated in the last couple of years as they werent making money just burning through he cash that been invested in them.
    It is not so much a case of #learntocode as being replaced by software. Learning to "code" and becoming a productive programmer are two very different things.

    The burnrate (the money spent over the time from startup/investment until profitability) was probably horrific for some of these clickbait publications and the advertising supported model did not seem to be working out. Many people use ad blockers these days.

    The other aspect is that the target market for many of these publications are either unemployed or temporarily laid off. That means that advertisers have little interest in advertising high end products and services to these demographics. Fewer high paying ads on the sites means that earnings take a dive.

    Regards...jmcc


  • #731
    JTMan
    Registered Users Posts: 5,535 ✭✭✭JTMan


    Quartz to close UK office. 80 job loses.

    Examiner appointed to Joe.ie parent.

    The online media losses continue.


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  • #732
    dohboy
    Registered Users Posts: 599 ✭✭✭dohboy


    Irish Times reaches 120,000 subscriptions. I now await as this forum will tell me why this is bad news ;)

    https://twitter.com/MarkHennessy/status/1261595988935966720?s=19


  • #733
    JTMan
    Registered Users Posts: 5,535 ✭✭✭JTMan


    dohboy wrote: »
    Irish Times reaches 120,000 subscriptions.

    This self reported figure is misleading and lacks context.

    The ABC Irish Times audit puts the digital subs figure at 24,389 as per the cert here. But this is misleading too.

    The Irish Times include free student subs and free intro subs in their figure. By one count, free student subs make up at least half of the figure.

    ABC only include Irish Times subs that include an ePaper. Bizarre decision but that is the way they measure it. The basic Irish Times sub does not include an epaper.

    The real figure for paid-for Irish Time subs is somewhere in-between 24k and 120k.


  • #734
    jmcc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,280 ✭✭✭jmcc


    JTMan wrote: »
    This self reported figure is misleading and lacks context.

    The ABC Irish Times audit puts the digital subs figure at 24,389 as per the cert here. But this is misleading too.

    The Irish Times include free student subs and free intro subs in their figure. By one count, free student subs make up at least half of the figure.

    ABC only include Irish Times subs that include an ePaper. Bizarre decision but that is the way they measure it. The basic Irish Times sub does not include an epaper.

    The real figure for paid-for Irish Time subs is somewhere in-between 24k and 120k.
    Don't forget that the duration of the subscription is important.

    Regards...jmcc


  • #735
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,523 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Examiners in at Maximum Media now.


  • #736
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,609 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    JTMan wrote: »
    This self reported figure is misleading and lacks context.

    The ABC Irish Times audit puts the digital subs figure at 24,389 as per the cert here. But this is misleading too.

    The Irish Times include free student subs and free intro subs in their figure. By one count, free student subs make up at least half of the figure.

    ABC only include Irish Times subs that include an ePaper. Bizarre decision but that is the way they measure it. The basic Irish Times sub does not include an epaper.

    The real figure for paid-for Irish Time subs is somewhere in-between 24k and 120k.

    They're basically just fooling themselves saying they have 120,000 subs when they've tens of thousands of students included in that figure who are unlikely to actually read it. Its the Emperors new clothes.

    Would be interesting to know what the true figure is.


  • #737
    JTMan
    Registered Users Posts: 5,535 ✭✭✭JTMan


    The NY Times have a very detailed excellent article here on job losses across US Media.

    As someone on Twitter said:
    "To put things in perspective: After decades of layoffs, there were 88K newsroom jobs by the end of 2019, counting digital. According to the NYT, there have been ~36k lost jobs since then."

    Shocking destruction of media jobs.


  • #738
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,523 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    ABC now offering private reporting - which I suspect is to try get publications back in the fold; but is also likely to result in everyone going private so we can't see the rot anymore

    https://www.abc.org.uk/newslink/113-abc-news/928-abc-introduces-new-reporting-options-for-newsbrands


  • #739
    IRE60
    Registered Users Posts: 1,880 ✭✭✭IRE60


    ....and we'd like to thank the ABC for all their hard work over the last ninety years and we wish them well.......

    "the publisher has chosen to manage their ABC data themselves"
    "will now be a rolling release of data throughout the month"
    "a contact at the publisher from whom ABC certificates can be requested"


    Slán abhaile!


  • #740
    JTMan
    Registered Users Posts: 5,535 ✭✭✭JTMan


    Sad that this is likely to mean a significant reduction in transparency in data on newspaper reach.

    Will be interesting to see which newspaper groups opt for public data if any. When do we find out? Can we search for April 2020 data now on a publication by publication basis?

    What effect does this have on the tiny number of publications left in the Island of Ireland report?


  • #741
    JTMan
    Registered Users Posts: 5,535 ✭✭✭JTMan


    I see the publications that are public have their ABC numbers on iLevel and Press Gazette.

    Some shocking drops.


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  • #742
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 17,838 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    Saw that The Atlantic is cutting staff by 20% even though their readership is up lately but I assume the advertising must be down

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • #743
    JTMan
    Registered Users Posts: 5,535 ✭✭✭JTMan


    silverharp wrote: »
    Saw that The Atlantic is cutting staff by 20% even though their readership is up lately but I assume the advertising must be down

    Yeah, advertising well down and their tag on events business has gone to the ground too.


  • #744
    jmcc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,280 ✭✭✭jmcc


    More content generators being replaced by software:

    https://www.seattletimes.com/business/local-business/microsoft-is-cutting-dozens-of-msn-news-production-workers-and-replacing-them-with-artificial-intelligence/

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/may/30/microsoft-sacks-journalists-to-replace-them-with-robots

    Perhaps the Gruaniad could finally become profitable? :)

    Regards...jmcc


  • #745
    IRE60
    Registered Users Posts: 1,880 ✭✭✭IRE60


    It was going to happen! The Irish Times along with Examiner and Echo are now listed as ‘No longer registered’ on the ABC website. Also, the SBP didn’t file a cert in Feb for the July-Dec numbers. I asked the ABC what the story was and they politely steered me to the publisher. I see now that they are also “No longer registered”.
    It’s a bit of a body blow for the ABC, who are really just feeling the pinch in the print business like the brands are.
    Telegraph pulled out of the ABC in Jan and there may well be a domino effect coming.


  • #746
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,609 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    A body blow for the ABC but also for the advertising in print Id say too. Theres a saying that half of all money spent on advertising is a waste but the trick is to know which half. Now add in newspapers not even revealing their circulation numbers (which were already dubious anyway) and confidence in their claimed reach of print advertising falls through the floor.

    It would seem they are obviously embarrassed by the falling numbers and now want to hide them knowing well they are only going to get worse. That has the double edged sword of removing transparency from the market, a brand manager with an advertising budget of a million plus a year is going to be questioning the value for money in spending it on print advertising while the newspaper themselves are hiding the circulation numbers. Why would a brand manager spend money when they dont truly know what they are buying, all while other channels like TV, radio and digital have verifiable numbers.


  • #747
    IRE60
    Registered Users Posts: 1,880 ✭✭✭IRE60


    The ABC are simply auditors and reporters of those audits. The decline in numbers is nothing to do with them! Again, they simply report them. As someone who worked on certification for a newsbrand for a few years, the ABC the numbers are verifiable numbers. There is no hiding.

    Radio research is a face to face interview -questionable at times. Digital, I refer you to Maximum Media. TV – TAM is a decent enough product.
    So, the criticism of the ABC, in this case, is misdirected. It’s like shouting at Bryan Dobson for reading out bad news!


  • #748
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 32,943 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    I'm not sure what is going on with the Indo website but they have match reports from euro2012?


  • #749
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,609 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    oh no Im not criticising the ABC, quite the opposite. When I said 'they' in terms of the embarrassment of falling numbers I meant the newspapers are embarrassed and want to hide it, not the ABC, sorry if that wasnt clear.

    Im making the point that newspapers titles abandoning the long held practice of their numbers being independently audited removes transparency from the advertising market. Without the ABC circulation audit brand managers who need to assess their advertising spend vis a vis the reach of that spend are now doing so blind and in the dark. That would surely frighten any brand manager, after all you cannot count what you cannot see. The ABC fulfilled that vital role but now with newspapers opting out of it then trust and confidence in circulation numbers is gone. A market functions off information, remove that and it isnt a level playing field and advertisers will look elsewhere.


  • #750
    IRE60
    Registered Users Posts: 1,880 ✭✭✭IRE60


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    oh no Im not criticising the ABC, quite the opposite. When I said 'they' in terms of the embarrassment of falling numbers I meant the newspapers are embarrassed and want to hide it, not the ABC, sorry if that wasnt clear.

    Im making the point that newspapers titles abandoning the long held practice of their numbers being independently audited removes transparency from the advertising market. Without the ABC circulation audit brand managers who need to assess their advertising spend vis a vis the reach of that spend are now doing so blind and in the dark. That would surely frighten any brand manager, after all you cannot count what you cannot see. The ABC fulfilled that vital role but now with newspapers opting out of it then trust and confidence in circulation numbers is gone. A market functions off information, remove that and it isnt a level playing field and advertisers will look elsewhere.
    Crystal clear now! and I agree with you. What metric do you supply a potential advertiser. I've said it before - an old boss of mine used to say the a Publishers Statement (un-audited circulation number) is as sincere as a kiss from a whore!


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  • #751
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,523 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    This is why the ABC are now offering private audited figures (hide the shame but have something to give to advertisers who want some proof of value); but beyond Newscorp nobody seems to be using them yet.


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