Is it just me or have SF vanished?

y0ssar1an22 · 12-05-2020 09:36AM

markodaly wrote: »

People are entitled to their own opinions (5G causes cancer OMG!), but they are not entitled to their own facts (5G is actually harmless).

thalidomide was harmless as well until we gained more knowledge.

FrancieBrady · 12-05-2020 09:46AM

markodaly wrote: »

This has been done to death at this stage, but again, the PIRA never had popular support on this island, nor did they have any democratic mandate whatsoever.

The myth is that the Provos fought for the civil rights of nationalists when they were actually fighting for a United Ireland.
They dressed it up decades later as a 'win' for civil rights, as their main aim could not and have not been achieved.

This has been done to death, and only the hardcore SF types refuse to call it out for what it is.

So, lets not revise history for political aims shall we.

I am off the opinion that it was both. They aren't mutually exclusive as goals.

I am not aware of any denial that the military campaign failed to remove the British.

SF members were harassed, vilified, intimidated, censored and shot so it is no surprise at all that it took time to build a voter base.

Here's the thing that makes no sense to me, you guys say that they had no mandate because they didn't command a big enough vote until they had signed up to the GFA.
That doesn't make any sense.
You are saying that people at the centre of the conflict immediately trusted SF and voted en masse for them?
The truth is that all through the 90's SF's vote grew. They took votes from the SDLP while the conflict/war was going on.

What does make sense is that the electorate saw what was being achieved and began moving away from the SDLP.

Personally I think the final straw for SDLP voters was when their terms for an electoral pact with SF was an end to abstentionism and a ceasefire by the IRA. This was rejected and still SF's support grew.
I think it was a huge mistake by Hume to demand that, as it turned a mirror onto the SDLP and what they had done to get any foothold with the British, i.e. doffed the hat and capitulated.

Here's a chronology of the 90's and what was going on...the decade when SF electoral support grew massively in the Westminster elections.
https://cain.ulster.ac.uk/othelem/chron/ch90.htm

Prior to the GFA they got to within 1 seat of the SDLP from a base of no seats.
By the 2001 Westminster election they had eclipsed the SDLP and the IRA had not fully decommissioned, in fact several deadlines had passed on decommissioning.
You cannot revise that factual history of the actual events.

Runaways · 12-05-2020 10:35AM

Disgusting to use lyras memory in such a way
Mark you’re either ignorant of the fact that it was just some little scumbag shot her Or you are fully aware and trying somehow to attach that to Sinn Fein

As I was saying really effing desperate

markodaly · 12-05-2020 10:51AM

Runaways wrote: »

Disgusting to use lyras memory in such a way
Mark you’re either ignorant of the fact that it was just some little scumbag shot her Or you are fully aware and trying somehow to attach that to Sinn Fein

As I was saying really effing desperate

Its the same train of thought.

The Real IRA shot and killed Lyra McKee, because they are still fighting for that Untied Ireland via the barrel of the gun.

Just like the Provo's shot, bombed and killed thousands of people for a United Ireland, and justified it like the RIRA did until they sought a ceasefire.

One cannot square that circle.

markodaly · 12-05-2020 11:02AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What does make sense is that the electorate saw what was being achieved and began moving away from the SDLP.

What happened to the SDLP vote is the same that happened to the UUP vote. The balkanisation of the North was thus complete, by pushing more Green and Orange voters to the extreme until both the DUP and SF dominated politics up there. This is well documented.

However, we seem, from recent electoral outings a return to centrist politics, where the Alliance and the SDLP (and even the PBP/Greens) are growing in prominence.

Being honest, the DUP / SF duopoly does not serve the North well at all, it holds it back and more and more people are seeing that.

I think it was a huge mistake by Hume to demand that, as it turned a mirror onto the SDLP and what they had done to get any foothold with the British, i.e. doffed the hat and capitulated.

Didn't SF/PIRA doff the hat and capitulate when they accepted that the North remains in British hands? That is what the RIRA tell us anyway.
See, there is always an extremist somewhere out there telling you that you are too soft.

Here's a chronology of the 90's and what was going on...the decade when SF electoral support grew massively in the Westminster elections.
https://cain.ulster.ac.uk/othelem/chron/ch90.htm

You mean SF support grew, when the PIRA stopped killing and murdering people.
That is my point exactly

markodaly · 12-05-2020 11:04AM

Deleted User wrote: »

The real ira didnt shot lyra mckee...they have long ceased to exist....if your gonna throw about issues such as this,

What are they called these days? New IRA?

FrancieBrady · 12-05-2020 11:12AM

markodaly wrote: »

What happened to the SDLP vote is the same that happened to the UUP vote. The balkanisation of the North was thus complete, by pushing more Green and Orange voters to the extreme until both the DUP and SF dominated politics up there. This is well documented.

However, we seem, from recent electoral outings a return to centrist politics, where the Alliance and the SDLP (and even the PBP/Greens) are growing in prominence.

Being honest, the DUP / SF duopoly does not serve the North well at all, it holds it back and more and more people are seeing that.

Factually wrong to compare what happened the UUP vote to what happened the SDLP vote.

As stated, the SF vote grew steadily through the conflict/war of the 90's. The UUP vote collapsed when they agreed to the GFA.
We know why this happened to the UUP.

Didn't SF/PIRA doff the hat and capitulate when they accepted that the North remains in British hands? That is what the RIRA tell us anyway.
See, there is always an extremist somewhere out there telling you that you are too soft.

No they didn't capitulate...they got very real and tangible benefits from the GFA. The electorate seen that and rewarded it. The SDLP, took their seats, towed the line and got nowhere...that is the reality of why they lost ground.

You mean SF support grew, when the PIRA stopped killing and murdering people.
That is my point exactly

Not backed up by the data. Their support grew through the conflict and they bypassed the SDLP before the IRA had decommissioned.

Mortelaro · 12-05-2020 01:33PM

Pkiernan wrote: »

I haven't seen or heard anything

Well thanks to democracy, they've disappeared from the potential chairmanship of the covid 19 committee anyhow

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0512/1137852-special-dail-covid-19-committee/

TheCitizen · 12-05-2020 01:50PM

Mortelaro wrote: »

Well thanks to democracy, they've disappeared from the potential chairmanship of the covid 19 committee anyhow

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0512/1137852-special-dail-covid-19-committee/

Disappeared from the Chairmanship? They're sitting on the committee aren't they? Desperate stuff.

James Brown · 12-05-2020 02:04PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Nowhere in that post did I mention the IRA, I merely said SF do not respect the rule of law in the Republic of Ireland look up A. O' Snodaigh and his family - your comrádaí. Also MLMD statements on the SCC.

Never voted for O'Snodaigh, (maybe when he first appeared, not sure) and he's my local SF chap. I don't like the cut of his jib.
I like their intentions towards housing and how they have a chance at helping us get rid of FF/FG.
You really need take off the blinkers. I think FG need look closer to home as to why support is falling off. Changing nothing about the way they do business and looking to talk about the 'RA and the troubles and inferring other things is not helping them nor is it good for the Irish tax payer more interested in their national crises.

Mortelaro · 12-05-2020 02:07PM

TheCitizen wrote: »

Disappeared from the Chairmanship? They're sitting on the committee aren't they? Desperate stuff.

They were bigging up themselves for the chair
Like their government formation talks,they ran up against a small problem
Lack of a majority

James Brown · 12-05-2020 02:22PM

markodaly wrote: »

People are entitled to their own opinions (5G causes cancer OMG!), but they are not entitled to their own facts (5G is actually harmless).

Nothing wrong with asking questions:

Fine Gael minister Brendan Griffin, SocDem leader Róisín Shortall, Sinn Féin TDs Pearse Doherty and Brian Stanley and Fianna Fáil TDs Robert Troy, Niamh Smyth and Pat Casey, who is now a senator, submitted parliamentary questions (PQs) about 5G's health impact.
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/minister-and-tds-raised-dail-questions-last-year-on-health-concerns-around-5g-roll-out-39156129.html

The whole sneering ignorant attitude is what FG should be looking at IMO.

James Brown · 12-05-2020 02:25PM

markodaly wrote: »

What are they called these days? New IRA?

Pssst...it's not the same people. You might as well be talking about the UDA, BA or Women's Auxiliary.

Jinglejangle69 · 12-05-2020 05:10PM

Can anyone tell me how the North can come up and do a different plan than Westminster seems we're told SF have no say over issues like health housing welfare etc because of power sharing?

Genuine question.

FrancieBrady · 12-05-2020 05:12PM

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Can anyone tell me how the North can come up and do a different plan than Westminster seems we're told SF have no say over issues like health housing welfare etc because of power sharing?

Genuine question.

It's a devolved power, just like it is in Scotland and Wales who are doing their own thing too.

blanch152 · 12-05-2020 06:31PM

Mortelaro wrote: »

Well thanks to democracy, they've disappeared from the potential chairmanship of the covid 19 committee anyhow

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0512/1137852-special-dail-covid-19-committee/

Can't believe Sinn Fein put forward that hooligan Cullinane for the role, they have no decency.

blanch152 · 12-05-2020 06:33PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It's a devolved power, just like it is in Scotland and Wales who are doing their own thing too.

But until now, we have been told many times on here that it is all Boris' fault that the handling of Covid has been such a shambles in the North.

Did people just wake up today?

blanch152 · 12-05-2020 06:35PM

Bowie wrote: »

Pssst...it's not the same people. You might as well be talking about the UDA, BA or Women's Auxiliary.

Thing is, it is the same people, just a different name.

FrancieBrady · 12-05-2020 06:35PM

blanch152 wrote: »

But until now, we have been told many times on here that it is all Boris' fault that the handling of Covid has been such a shambles in the North.

Did people just wake up today?

Yes...when Arlene was insisting on blindly following.

12-05-2020 06:37PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yes...when Arlene was insisting on blindly following.

Aye

UDA and UVF quickly put her back in her box and followed dublin instead

Pragmatism,in place of partisan is always good to see in action,in cases like this

blanch152 · 12-05-2020 06:38PM

Deleted User wrote: »

He was their spokesperson for health for yonks(idk why louise oreilly replaced him,come to think of it)

Seemed to perform v.well in public accounte committee last time,and cut through bull**** and waffle quicker than anyone??

He is a bully and a thug, but after his post-election performance, he should have been quietly shown the door. No such luck unfortunately, just like that councillor with the Kingsmill bread and the homophobic racist from Tallaght, they are kept on.

McMurphy · 12-05-2020 06:44PM

blanch152 wrote: »

Can't believe Sinn Fein put forward that hooligan Cullinane for the role, they have no decency.

Who would you have preferred them to put forward blanch? Is there someone in Sinn Fein you'd have been content with having being nominated?

This'll be good.

Mortelaro · 12-05-2020 07:31PM

Sinn Féins Agriculture spokesman Brian Stanley is very good in my opinion and would have coasted into the job,I think if he was on that committee, I dont know if he is

Edgware · 12-05-2020 08:25PM

Mortelaro wrote: »

Sinn Féins Agriculture spokesman Brian Stanley is very good in my opinion and would have coasted into the job,I think if he was on that committee, I dont know if he is

Stanley is a good T.D. He did great work highlighting the Covid 19 issue in the meat factories and he doesnt have the dirtbird approach that a lot of Shinner T.D.s have.
Himself, Matt Carthy and a few more are as good as there are in other parties and should be given more opportunities. McDonald and O Broin are the experts on everything of course

James Brown · 12-05-2020 08:35PM

blanch152 wrote: »

Thing is, it is the same people, just a different name.

Thing is it's really not. As dissidents they've more in common with FG/Lab.
Not sure what it's got to do with SF policy or their presence in the public eye currently.

James Brown · 12-05-2020 08:48PM

blanch152 wrote: »

But until now, we have been told many times on here that it is all Boris' fault that the handling of Covid has been such a shambles in the North.

Did people just wake up today?

Is that true?
I recall saying that SF weren't completely responsible as we'd the DUP and others all overseen by Westminister and if you were looking to tag anything on SF you'd need look at policies they pushed for or supported. But I suppose you might think the DUP, Tories and SF are 'the same people'.

Suckit · 13-05-2020 12:11AM

markodaly wrote: »

People are entitled to their own opinions (5G causes cancer OMG!), but they are not entitled to their own facts (5G is actually harmless).

That post contradicts itself.
Nobody knows whether or not 5G is harmless. As a matter of fact it is doubtful that it is 'harmless'.
So that would be your own 'fact' suggesting that it is.
There are legit professionals around the world asking for a moratorium on 5G. They only want it investigated and to rule out any health worries etc.
If it was 'harmless', there would be no issue, and the conspiracy nonsense would probably stop gathering momentum.
Brussels, considered by many as the capital of Europe, have not allowed 5G to rollout there yet, until further investigations prove it is safe.
As has Switzerland.
A moratorium would stop all the nonsense and cost very little in the grander scheme of things.

Runaways · 13-05-2020 12:36AM

McMurphy wrote: »

Who would you have preferred them to put forward blanch? Is there someone in Sinn Fein you'd have been content with having being nominated?

This'll be good.

Simon Harris walked out of his Leaving cert exam into the health ministry let’s not throw stones About people who are totally un fit for the role

Runaways · 13-05-2020 12:44AM

blanch152 wrote: »

But until now, we have been told many times on here that it is all Boris' fault that the handling of Covid has been such a shambles in the North.

Did people just wake up today?

The UK now has over 50,000 dead. The highest mortality rate of any European country except not in Europe ha ha and yes it is Boris’s fault he went on holiday he’s only appeared in parliament twice this year and the DUP slavishly follow them but of course you try to make it about Sinn Fein

Would you ever give it a rest Your obsession is a joke at this stage

Runaways · 13-05-2020 12:46AM

Suckit wrote: »

That post contradicts itself.
Nobody knows whether or not 5G is harmless. As a matter of fact it is doubtful that it is 'harmless'.
So that would be your own 'fact' suggesting that it is.
There are legit professionals around the world asking for a moratorium on 5G. They only want it investigated and to rule out any health worries etc.
If it was 'harmless', there would be no issue, and the conspiracy nonsense would probably stop gathering momentum.
Brussels, considered by many as the capital of Europe, have not allowed 5G to rollout there yet, until further investigations prove it is safe.
As has Switzerland.
A moratorium would stop all the nonsense and cost very little in the grander scheme of things.

Rather ironically Belfast is one of the few places with 5G but I’m sure that’s Sinn Fein’s fault as well

Is it just me or have SF vanished?

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