Deferred State Exams 2020 [SEE MOD NOTE POST #1]

Bananaleaf · 11-05-2020 9:51pm

Mardy Bum wrote: »

ASTI can't even send an email to all its members.

At least they have information for you.

The TUI should be on the news - it is nothing short of criminal how useless they are and how little their uselessness bothers them.

We are still being instructed to teach. Zero communication from my principal today. Zero from the TUI (despite making a phone call and sending an email to them)

I am leaving the union. I really am. It is an utter waste of money. They only protect you regarding 'employment law' and between your constitutional rights as a human and your contract, we are all already covered to the same extent that the TUI are willing to go to for you anyway. Cant speak for ASTI. Maybe they're better. They certainly seem to be

jayo76 · 11-05-2020 9:51pm

I did get it also, 8 o clock this evening

jimmytwotimes 2013 · 11-05-2020 10:20pm

TUI surely follow this and quickly, please

mtoutlemonde · 11-05-2020 10:30pm

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

TUI surely follow this and quickly, please

Joe McHugh is typing it at the moment because whatever Joe says, TUI does. .

dory · 11-05-2020 11:02pm

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I think it depends on the set up outside school. I have a lad taking an extra subject with me. He did a Christmas test, summer test and mock and has a project element which he has completed. He’s done all the stuff I would do with my regular class and I would stand over his grade.

Our issue is saying no to people if the set up is good, but the student also has a teacher of that subject in our school. It sounds from your example like that student doesn't study that subject in school. We'd be ok with that. But then how do you say no to someone else who has also gone through your system but studies it with us as well?

km79 wrote: »

No teacher can have predicted grades ready as we have not received the finalised guidelines on how to do so.
This is all so loose. Teachers here , there and elsewhere devising their own systems for predicting grades

I saw the text he sent over the weekend saying predicted grades are ready and to get the school to contact him! No idea how he did it without guidance. :rolleyes:

rainbowtrout · 12-05-2020 1:03am

dory wrote: »

Our issue is saying no to people if the set up is good, but the student also has a teacher of that subject in our school. It sounds from your example like that student doesn't study that subject in school. We'd be ok with that. But then how do you say no to someone else who has also gone through your system but studies it with us as well?

I would say if they are registered to study the subject in a class in the school then the class teacher gets the final say. The other teacher is merely providing grinds.

Random sample · 12-05-2020 8:04am

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I would say if they are registered to study the subject in a class in the school then the class teacher gets the final say. The other teacher is merely providing grinds.

I’d say let the other teacher provide provisional grades for both. The other student can then be brought in line with the class grades, using the student they have two predictive grades for as a benchmark.

TheValeyard · 12-05-2020 8:09am

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I would say if they are registered to study the subject in a class in the school then the class teacher gets the final say. The other teacher is merely providing grinds.

And grind teacher could easily be family friend, member, etc.
I don't see any possibility of a grinds teacher (personally paid by the parent in a private capacity) allowed to have any influence over final grades.

wirelessdude01 · 12-05-2020 8:14am

MacGyver007 wrote: »

Yes indeed. We had one a couple of weeks ago. They haven't gone away

How are they working in these times?

mirrorwall14 · 12-05-2020 8:22am

TheValeyard wrote: »

And grind teacher could easily be family friend, member, etc.
I don't see any possibility of a grinds teacher (personally paid by the parent in a private capacity) allowed to have any influence over final grades.

Yeah I'd have to agree here to be honest. How do you know if they are qualified or chosing a grade correctly if they are not part of the school? I'd be wary of externally assessed grades too tbh. How does the principal sign off on a grade chosen by someone who is not one of their employees? The exception being if they have sat some assessment in the school to justify the prediction

Mardy Bum · 12-05-2020 8:45am

The DES are under pressure if they are going to allow grinds teachers sign off on subjects. Another ridiculous idea that will cause further inequality. Joe McHugh is very worried about being sued.

scrubs33 · 12-05-2020 9:39am

While the issue of grinds is being discussed here something what about teachers who are giving grinds to students in their class outside of school time. It is happening and surely parents would be inclined to say 'look I've invested x amount over the past two years should I see a return given you will be grading him/her?' Officially they are not supposed to do so I know but it's going to be hard to resist the next time they meet the teacher down the village or whatever.

jimmytwotimes 2013 · 12-05-2020 9:40am

Who will be responsible for the students who opt to sit an LC paper later in the year?

This came up at our staff meeting. It was pointed out the students were promised some time with a teacher before they'd sit a paper. Does that proposal no longer hold?

Will they be classed as former students once they receive assessed grades?

km79 · 12-05-2020 9:43am

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Who will be responsible for the students who opt to sit an LC paper later in the year?

This came up at our staff meeting. It was pointed out the students were promised some time with a teacher before they'd sit a paper. Does that proposal no longer hold?

Will they be classed as former students once they receive assessed grades?

I have asked the union for clarification on this

mirrorwall14 · 12-05-2020 9:58am

km79 wrote: »

I have asked the union for clarification on this

Our principal looking for clarity on this via ETB too. Because if we stop teaching three weeks early he reckons we would have to do it

jimmytwotimes 2013 · 12-05-2020 10:04am

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Our principal looking for clarity on this via ETB too. Because if we stop teaching three weeks early he reckons we would have to do it

And if both unions instruct teachers to stop teaching in order to preserve integrity of assessment system, where does that leave the student who wants to sit a paper. Or if a school has issued an instruction to their staff to stop, what happens in Nov-Jan (or whenever) if a student wants their 'former' teacher's help?

km79 · 12-05-2020 11:01am

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Our principal looking for clarity on this via ETB too. Because if we stop teaching three weeks early he reckons we would have to do it

I presume we are stopping teaching as we have to give the time to working out the grades
And the training for this
Or is this more free work ?
Leaving certs would have been finishing up next week anyway in a lot of schools

The message from our school is those who are planning on doing exams have access time teachers until May 29th

This is going to be an issue in October/November
Get your green jerseys ready

km79 · 12-05-2020 11:02am

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Our principal looking for clarity on this via ETB too. Because if we stop teaching three weeks early he reckons we would have to do it

Tell him to ask for clarity on whether all the extra work being done will be offset against croke park hours next year

rainbowtrout · 12-05-2020 11:08am

Random sample wrote: »

I’d say let the other teacher provide provisional grades for both. The other student can then be brought in line with the class grades, using the student they have two predictive grades for as a benchmark.

I would disagree. The idea of allowing a grinds teacher provide any grade (where the student is studying the subject in school) would suggest that it would be considered as part of the school's assessment of that student. That leaves them wide open to anyone going for an extra grind in maths, irish etc.

What is to stop me as a student getting any randomer to email the school and say they are giving me grinds and that I deserve a H1 to over ride the class teacher's grade?

To put it in context, the student I have is taking the subject as an extra subject and is not doing it in school. I happen to know the subject teacher in his school and have been in contact with them several times over the last two years as there is a practical involved in the subject. As this was all by text I have all the messages on my phone. I also have a record of tests for the student and I made him take photographs of the practical component that they have to do for me so there would be a record if his project was ever called into question (unlikely).

Treppen · 12-05-2020 11:45am

km79 wrote: »

Tell him to ask for clarity on whether all the extra work being done will be offset against croke park hours next year

I don't know how we can continue to work without these Croke Park hours.
To survive I've set up a Zoom call on 20 devices so it's like having a mini croke park meeting. Also set up my office to remind me of Junior Cycle inservices.

PostIT.JPG

Now.. if I could stop asking myself stupid question I could finish a few minutes early.

Ahhh the good old days.

jimmytwotimes 2013 · 12-05-2020 11:48am

FAQ updated and tuition to cease from May 11

History Queen · 12-05-2020 12:02pm

Urgent updates regarding Leaving Certificate/Calculated grades
TUESDAY, 12TH MAY 2020
In discussions between the Department of Education and Skills, the management bodies and the teacher unions, it was agreed that, from Monday, 11th May 2020, teachers and schools would cease to provide tuition (whether online or in other ways) to final year (i.e. 6th Year) Leaving Certificate students. No further tuition is to take place from that date.

As you are aware, the TUI has also requested that a protocol be immediately put in place requiring that any canvassing in relation to the estimated marks/calculated grades will have to be recorded formally at school level and reported to the DES. We anticipate that this protocol will be available very shortly and the DES has issued the following press statement in that regard:

“One of the fundamental principles of the calculated grades model is fairness – both to the individual student and to the students in the school as a whole. Any attempt to influence teachers in relation to the process of Leaving Certificate calculated grades is considered to be entirely inappropriate and will be regarded as canvassing. Detailed guidance for teachers and principals in this matter is being developed by the Department.”

Therefore, if any member is in contact with/contacted by students and/or parents, s/he should politely but firmly refuse to engage in any discussion about estimated marks/calculated grades and say that any approach in that regard will have to be reported to school management.

km79 · 12-05-2020 12:13pm

"As of 11 May 2020, tuition (whether online or in other ways) ceased for sixth-year leaving certificate students. This applies to the Leaving Certificate established, Leaving Certificate Applied (LCA) and Leaving Certificate Vocational Programme (LCVP).

No additional work will be accepted from students from this date. Teachers and students may not discuss the student’s achievement in the subject over the past two years. Nor can they discuss the student’s ranking in a class, or their estimated mark or the level at which an estimated mark is to be provided in a subject."

From education.ie
The FAQ is constantly being updated

MacGyver007 · 12-05-2020 12:28pm

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

How are they working in these times?

Online meetings after school time, these meetings based on the agreed CP hours calendar at the start of the year

LW2018 · 12-05-2020 1:10pm

Huge apologies if this has already been answered already, but just wondering if there is complete clarity on the class ranking of students. The document states:

In this step of the process, the teacher of each Leaving Certificate class will be asked to provide:

his/her estimate of the percentage mark for his/her subject that each candidate is most likely to have achieved, had he/she sat a Leaving Certificate examination in 2020 as normal
a class rank order – that is, a list of all the candidates in a class for his/her particular class group in the subject in order of the predicted level of achievement of each candidate

So I read this as: I rank my students in my class group and the 2 other teachers rank the students in their class group, thus creating 3 lists of ranked students for this subject in question.

However, there is a lot of talk about one full ranked list PER SUBJECT being created. Is this how the process needs to be - one list for English/Maths/Irish being submitted from each department as opposed to the individual class lists??

Under the role of the School, the document states:

The role of the school is to provide marks and rankings that reflect:

1. an estimation of the percentage mark in each subject that each candidate is likely to have achieved if they had sat the Leaving Certificate examination in 2020 under normal conditions

2. a class ranking for each student in each subject – that is, a list of all the candidates for a particular subject in a class in the order of their estimated level of achievement.

A few of us are very unsure as to the system / procedure required in the ranking. Any clarity would be greatly welcomed. Thanks

ethical · 12-05-2020 1:16pm

MacGyver007 wrote: »

Online meetings after school time, these meetings based on the agreed CP hours calendar at the start of the year

That is a fcukin disgrace.Bad enough starting at 8.00am and then following your timetable from 9 til 4 and then being online again for quite a bit of the evening sorting out issues for students because you want whats best for them.
Online teaching has made teaching more 24/7 and then you get some power hungery imbecile of a Principal holding a CP meeting!

Of course while you were online teaching all day that feckin gobsh1t was not in class contact but it will look good for him,box ticked and fcuk the rest of ye.

I'd soon tell him where to go.We had one like this a number of years ago .......and did just that,life has been fair since!

ethical · 12-05-2020 1:19pm

LW2018 wrote: »

Huge apologies if this has already been answered already, but just wondering if there is complete clarity on the class ranking of students. The document states:

In this step of the process, the teacher of each Leaving Certificate class will be asked to provide:

his/her estimate of the percentage mark for his/her subject that each candidate is most likely to have achieved, had he/she sat a Leaving Certificate examination in 2020 as normal
a class rank order – that is, a list of all the candidates in a class for his/her particular class group in the subject in order of the predicted level of achievement of each candidate

So I read this as: I rank my students in my class group and the 2 other teachers rank the students in their class group, thus creating 3 lists of ranked students for this subject in question.

However, there is a lot of talk about one full ranked list PER SUBJECT being created. Is this how the process needs to be - one list for English/Maths/Irish being submitted from each department as opposed to the individual class lists??

Under the role of the School, the document states:

The role of the school is to provide marks and rankings that reflect:

1. an estimation of the percentage mark in each subject that each candidate is likely to have achieved if they had sat the Leaving Certificate examination in 2020 under normal conditions

2. a class ranking for each student in each subject – that is, a list of all the candidates for a particular subject in a class in the order of their estimated level of achievement.

A few of us are very unsure as to the system / procedure required in the ranking. Any clarity would be greatly welcomed. Thanks

You cannot sort any list until the question of Higher or Ordinary Level is addressed......and no guidance on it yet !

History Queen · 12-05-2020 1:25pm

I sent an email to tui today with questions and the response I got is they are compiling and creating a FAQ list that will be published on their website in coming days.

Based on that I'm sitting tight working towards assessments with my other classes and waiting for clarity on how to calculate grades for LC.

km79 · 12-05-2020 1:37pm

History Queen wrote: »

I sent an email to tui today with questions and the response I got is they are compiling and creating a FAQ list that will be published on their website in coming days.

Based on that I'm sitting tight working towards assessments with my other classes and waiting for clarity on how to calculate grades for LC.

Me too
I wish everyone else would do the same

km79 · 12-05-2020 1:40pm

LW2018 wrote: »

Huge apologies if this has already been answered already, but just wondering if there is complete clarity on the class ranking of students. The document states:

In this step of the process, the teacher of each Leaving Certificate class will be asked to provide:

his/her estimate of the percentage mark for his/her subject that each candidate is most likely to have achieved, had he/she sat a Leaving Certificate examination in 2020 as normal
a class rank order – that is, a list of all the candidates in a class for his/her particular class group in the subject in order of the predicted level of achievement of each candidate

So I read this as: I rank my students in my class group and the 2 other teachers rank the students in their class group, thus creating 3 lists of ranked students for this subject in question.

However, there is a lot of talk about one full ranked list PER SUBJECT being created. Is this how the process needs to be - one list for English/Maths/Irish being submitted from each department as opposed to the individual class lists??

Under the role of the School, the document states:

The role of the school is to provide marks and rankings that reflect:

1. an estimation of the percentage mark in each subject that each candidate is likely to have achieved if they had sat the Leaving Certificate examination in 2020 under normal conditions

2. a class ranking for each student in each subject – that is, a list of all the candidates for a particular subject in a class in the order of their estimated level of achievement.

A few of us are very unsure as to the system / procedure required in the ranking. Any clarity would be greatly welcomed. Thanks

Everyone is unsure and everyone is interpreting it differently
That’s why everyone needs to wait until it is cleared up and teacher guidelines issued

Deferred State Exams 2020 [SEE MOD NOTE POST #1]

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