Is it just me or have SF vanished?

gormdubhgorm · 11-05-2020 10:09PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Sure it is now, but it certainly wasn't in my fathers time...the lead up to the conflict/war. Again...what planet are you on to have missed this.

Newsflash you are not in your fathers time. That was last century we are in the 21st century. Which SF still has to catch up on.

Yes...largely solved but a way to go yet. And STILL you cannot accept that the people given their civil rights want to reward SF again and again for achieving them. The people speak and you and the likes of Leo Varadkar piss on that because they are at the gates of power here too. No other reason.

Again well over 40% voted for parties who said they would not go into gov with SF respect the mandate. As for NI as far as I saw it the SDLP John Hume did most of the leg work and the Irish government - to try and get the Unionists and Republicans to stop killing each other.

To get into the gates of power in the ROI you have to show respect for the rule of law SF have not shown that completely.

Beasty · 11-05-2020 10:11PM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

The best part is Blaaz_ putting "Thanks" on all your posts :-) says it all really

Do not post in this thread again

gormdubhgorm · 11-05-2020 10:15PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Death is not being used to score points it is the fundamental problem with SF. They do not respect the rule of law. Which is why Labour/FF/FG will not go into government with them.
How can you have SF in government in the dail when they have pure disdain for the rule of law in the ROI?

SCC, Gardai, Judges and so on.

Plus I am not your comrade or buddy, nor am I a brainwashed bigot like yourself who sees life as cheap. Something to brush under the carpet if inconvenient to the cause.

Bowie wrote: »

Comrade, I don't think you are interested in anything but going on about the IRA and that's fine but I'll leave you to it.

Nowhere in that post did I mention the IRA, I merely said SF do not respect the rule of law in the Republic of Ireland look up A. O' Snodaigh and his family - your comrádaí. Also MLMD statements on the SCC.

Beasty · 11-05-2020 10:15PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

nor am I a brainwashed bigot like yourself

Threadbanned

FrancieBrady · 11-05-2020 10:18PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Newsflash you are not in your fathers time. That was last century we are in the 21st century. Which SF still has to catch up on.

I didn't say I was. You seem to ignore that it wasn't an innate trait in your fellow Irish men and women to kill...circumstances caused the conflagration. Circumstances that were largely ignored until it wen up in flames, by us in the south too as well as other whose responsibility it was.

Again well over 40% voted for parties who said they would not go into gov with SF respect the mandate. As for NI as far as I saw it the SDLP John Hume did most of the leg work and the Irish government to try and get the Unionists and Republicans to stop killing each other.

You still haven't told us HOW MANY voted for parties who said they wouldn't go in with FG. Whenever you are ready.
As far as I can see...again and again the people reward SF as their reps. The SDLP forced John Hume to do a solo run on the peace talks...know your history, the people do.

To get into the gates of power in the ROI you have to show respect for the rule of law SF have not shown that completely.

The law says you need evidence to convict...your feeling it in your water that x did such and y did the other and z was a member of that, is not good enough.

Bishop of hope · 11-05-2020 10:20PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Sure it is now, but it certainly wasn't in my fathers time...the lead up to the conflict/war. Again...what planet are you on to have missed this.

Yes...largely solved but a way to go yet. And STILL you cannot accept that the people given their civil rights want to reward SF again and again for achieving them. The people speak and you and the likes of Leo Varadkar piss on that because they are at the gates of power here too. No other reason.

The gates of power?
Not wanting to sound negative on that, but who has shown any interest in standing alongside them?
They haven't an ally in the Dail really have they?

christy c · 11-05-2020 10:27PM

smurgen wrote: »

Will FG be apologising and launching an enquiry into the nursing home deaths for Covid?

I dont know, but there's people like yourself who thought Borris was making them look bad so goes to show it's possible to be far worse.

FrancieBrady · 11-05-2020 10:28PM

Bishop of hope wrote: »

The gates of power?
Not wanting to sound negative on that, but who has shown any interest in standing alongside them?
They haven't an ally in the Dail really have they?

I believe sincerely that the high moral ground stuff FF go on with is rubbish tbh. Martin would have gone with SF in a heartbeat had he won 50 seats. No doubt in my mind about that. FG less so, but if it was expedient they'd have done the deal.

They are basically paralysed by SF, they know they can't play the power swap game anymore. C&S an now coalition...if you cannot see the changes brought about by SF arriving at the gates...I think you are being defensively and willfully naive tbh.

Bishop of hope · 11-05-2020 10:34PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I believe sincerely that the high moral ground stuff FF go on with is rubbish tbh. Martin would have gone with SF in a heartbeat had he won 50 seats. No doubt in my mind about that. FG less so, but if it was expedient they'd have done the deal.

They are basically paralysed by SF, they know they can't play the power swap game anymore. C&S an now coalition...if you cannot see the changes brought about by SF arriving at the gates...I think you are being defensively and willfully naive tbh.

I can see that, whether it's for better or not is to be told.
I don't deem them to be the saviours of Irish politics their supporters see them as though, just the new FF really.
I agree about MM too, but his pretenders waiting in the wings aren't on for it.

FrancieBrady · 11-05-2020 10:45PM

Bishop of hope wrote: »

I can see that, whether it's for better or not is to be told.
I don't deem them to be the saviours of Irish politics their supporters see them as though, just the new FF really.
I agree about MM too, but his pretenders waiting in the wings aren't on for it.

SF will just be another political party. I don't think they will save anything, I don't think any political party can.
They can and have changed things though. And if they get a mandate then they deserve their chance.
If we ruled out party's because they were involved in conflict we would never have had anyone to run the country a short few decades ago. They all decided to lock away the details, thus prolonging civil war politics to this very day.

Bishop of hope · 11-05-2020 10:55PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

SF will just be another political party. I don't think they will save anything, I don't think any political party can.
They can and have changed things though. And if they get a mandate then they deserve their chance.
If we ruled out party's because they were involved in conflict we would never have had anyone to run the country a short few decades ago. They all decided to lock away the details, thus prolonging civil war politics to this very day.

Are you serious?
So you're saying SF isn't an extension of civil war politics, and you asked me if I was naieve.

FrancieBrady · 11-05-2020 10:58PM

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Are you serious?
So you're saying SF isn't an extension of civil war politics, and you asked me if I was naieve.

I didn't say that at all.
But now that you mention it, No, they don't seem a bit interested in faux civil war politics.

It was faux civil war politics...the two parties involved are in the process of ending it now that SF are at the gates.

Bishop of hope · 11-05-2020 11:03PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I didn't say that at all.
But now that you mention it, No, they don't seem a bit interested in faux civil war politics.

It was faux civil war politics...the two parties involved are in the process of ending it now that SF are at the gates.

You're floundering badly here.
Sinn Fein are at the gates, faux civil war politics!
Just an extension of the same old same old.
Nothing new Francie.

FrancieBrady · 11-05-2020 11:08PM

Bishop of hope wrote: »

You're floundering badly here.
Sinn Fein are at the gates, faux civil war politics!
Just an extension of the same old same old.
Nothing new Francie.

FF and FG are about to coalesce...nothing same old same old about that. That is seismic in Irish politics.

If they can now find it to coalesce (some would say it is all but a merger) something caused that.

I think it was the rise of SF, interested in other views of what caused it. 84% of the vote down to 42%.

Bishop of hope · 11-05-2020 11:16PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

FF and FG are about to coalesce...nothing same old same old about that. That is seismic in Irish politics.

If they can now find it to coalesce (some would say it is all but a merger) something caused that.

I think it was the rise of SF, interested in other views of what caused it. 84% of the vote down to 42%.

I'm not arguing that, just saying it's just a new version of it.
SF are the new FF, it will be the same old cycle and for the average Irish worker, nothing will change.

blanch152 · 11-05-2020 11:18PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I quoted the IMC earlier...they said 'they had concluded' that the IRA were not involved.

Standard stuff after an investigation.

Did you find the updated change of this statement that you said existed?

In the link I provided, the IMC are quoted, and it is not how you presented it.

blanch152 · 11-05-2020 11:24PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I didn't say I was. You seem to ignore that it wasn't an innate trait in your fellow Irish men and women to kill...circumstances caused the conflagration. Circumstances that were largely ignored until it wen up in flames, by us in the south too as well as other whose responsibility it was.

It was only a few deluded thugs who started killing people as part of the IRA campaign. They never had popular support, they never had widespread backing, it was John Hume who was loved by Irish nationalists in the North during those times, not Gerry or any of the other thugs. SF only got popular from gratitude for stopping killing people.

Rewriting The history of the 1970s and 1980s won’t change that.

FrancieBrady · 11-05-2020 11:31PM

blanch152 wrote: »

In the link I provided, the IMC are quoted, and it is not how you presented it.

The IMC clearly sated that the IRA as an organisation was not involved in the killing. Paul Quinn's father accepted that.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin said unequivocably at the time 'there was no ambiguity about his party's position. He said those responsible had been involved in an act of criminality.'

Not sure what else is required here. The PSNI and The IMC know who did it...I know who did it because I know Paul Quinn's neighbours...is it that you want people like me to invent forensics to get these animals behind bars?

padd b1975 · 11-05-2020 11:34PM

blanch152 wrote: »

You forgot the perennial favourite around here - Partitionist.

Crown forces.

Imprisoned without trial.

Wants to take all the guns out of Irish politics.

The list is endless really.

FrancieBrady · 11-05-2020 11:46PM

blanch152 wrote: »

They never had popular support, .

When was there a vote on that?

My father, an SDLP supporter, once told me he would have voted for Ghengis Khan rather than Harold McCusker when he had a vote there. That's how divided society was.
He spent two days in Dublin...one protesting Bloody Sunday and the other the death of Bobby Sands. He was a nationalist/republican first and foremost.
That is the nuance you refuse to countenance, that is why the vote shifted so easily to SF.
Nobody wanted the violence/conflict/war but nobody pretended that it wasn't inevitable and no nationalist blamed nationalists for it going up in flames. John Hume certainly didn't. He knew better.

markodaly · 12-05-2020 01:19AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

When was there a vote on that?

This has been done to death at this stage, but again, the PIRA never had popular support on this island, nor did they have any democratic mandate whatsoever.

The myth is that the Provos fought for the civil rights of nationalists when they were actually fighting for a United Ireland.
They dressed it up decades later as a 'win' for civil rights, as their main aim could not and have not been achieved.

This has been done to death, and only the hardcore SF types refuse to call it out for what it is.

So, lets not revise history for political aims shall we.

12-05-2020 06:21AM

markodaly wrote: »

This has been done to death at this stage, but again, the PIRA never had popular support on this island, nor did they have any democratic mandate whatsoever.

The myth is that the Provos fought for the civil rights of nationalists when they were actually fighting for a United Ireland.
They dressed it up decades later as a 'win' for civil rights, as their main aim could not and have not been achieved.

This has been done to death, and only the hardcore SF types refuse to call it out for what it is.

So, lets not revise history for political aims shall we.

This just seems your just trying to browbeat someone into supporting your point of view?

The chap surely allowed his take on it too

markodaly · 12-05-2020 07:24AM

Deleted User wrote: »

This just seems your just trying to browbeat someone into supporting your point of view?

The chap surely allowed his take on it too

People are entitled to their own opinions (5G causes cancer OMG!), but they are not entitled to their own facts (5G is actually harmless).

12-05-2020 07:39AM

markodaly wrote: »

People are entitled to their own opinions (5G causes cancer OMG!), but they are not entitled to their own facts (5G is actually harmless).

Exactly....the chap is entitled to his view on support for paramilitaries or not too

As without something 100% conclusive,your opioion is entirely based on interpetation of available info,which is surely influenced by personal prejudice (as is his!)???

markodaly · 12-05-2020 07:44AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Exactly....the chap is entitled to his view on support for paramilitaries or not too

Correct, people are free to support the murder of people like Lyra McKee if they so want, of course, people like that are best shunned and avoided by civilised people.

12-05-2020 07:47AM

markodaly wrote: »

Correct, people are free to support the murder of people like Lyra McKee if they so want, of course, people like that are best shunned and avoided by civilised people.

I personally see no point in shunning such people anyway?

Not everyone,will agree with you all the time,and thats ok too.....its a big world out there,and would be wicked boring,if everyone agreed all the time

Once someones up for a laugh and not be mean is main thing,imo live and let live

Bishop of hope · 12-05-2020 07:47AM

markodaly wrote: »

This has been done to death at this stage, but again, the PIRA never had popular support on this island, nor did they have any democratic mandate whatsoever.

The myth is that the Provos fought for the civil rights of nationalists when they were actually fighting for a United Ireland.
They dressed it up decades later as a 'win' for civil rights, as their main aim could not and have not been achieved.

This has been done to death, and only the hardcore SF types refuse to call it out for what it is.

So, lets not revise history for political aims shall we.

But it was a win for civil rights!
The Irish and British govts stood by for decades and created the need for, or at least the void that allowed the IRA to come into existence in the first place, that part always seems to be forgotten.
Civil rights for catholics North of the border came out of that.
The old colonial attitude of the British, or at least English superiority still rears its ugly head now and again.

McMurphy · 12-05-2020 08:13AM

markodaly wrote: »

Correct, people are free to support the murder of people like Lyra McKee if they so want, of course, people like that are best shunned and avoided by civilised people.

I think you have name-dropped Lyra McKee before , if not on this thread, certainly on an other(s).

Even the people who shot Ms McKee didn't "support" her murder - implying they did is yet more of the same trying to use someone's death to score points (something I believe you were earlier aghast to when anyone mentioned covid 19 deaths in nursing homes)

I will also remind you that Ms McKee was murdered by a group of people opposed to Sinn Fein and the Irish peace process (certainly one of which the likes of Leo and the likes of yourself have in common) ie dissident republicans.

Opposed to Sinn Fein.

Is that what motivated Joan and Enda to strategically place one from "overseas" in our Seanad?

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Runaways · 12-05-2020 09:20AM

Lads if all you’ve got on Sinn Fein is 5G conspiracies and 30-year-old murders not actually committed by anyone in Sinn Fein you’re really really on the ropes.

Desperate

The FG social media team really needs to find some new tactics or just about anything else at this stage

Odhinn · 12-05-2020 09:25AM

markodaly wrote: »

Correct, people are free to support the murder of people like Lyra McKee if they so want, of course, people like that are best shunned and avoided by civilised people.

Desperate grasping.

Is it just me or have SF vanished?

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