Is it just me or have SF vanished?

11-05-2020 06:55PM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

You missed the other part

Rightly you have distain for the RIC/B&T but then you overlook the exact same carry on from PIRA/SF?

So how does that work?

Ira were fighting for irish freedom,the black and tans werr here to terrorise and put down a rebellion/war of independance

James Brown · 11-05-2020 06:58PM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Of course you did.

So answer the question or as usual just dodge it?

As usual? Show your work.

I didn't over look their carry on, I don't see the comparison between a force used to oppress Irish people and one looking to gain equal rights and democracy for Irish people. Is it the killing has you confused? Also they don't cancel each other out. Both could be bad or good depending on your perspective right?
We adults were discussing terms used and I spoke on 'west brit'.

Before you make yourself seem even more foolish, please note, a vote for SF isn't a vote for knee capping, neither is a vote for FG a vote for antisemetism or the Empire. Life isn't that straightforward.

Runaways · 11-05-2020 07:01PM

guyfo wrote: »

They want to get back in the headlines again, that's all they want to achieve.

Absolutely ridiculous to be saying stuff like that when all FF/FG have to do is get 5 people on their side to stop them getting into power...

If all I need is 5 to form a government why haven’t they then

Simply put FFFG Are as toxic to other parties and independents as Sinn Fein are made out to be

Anyone getting into bed with FFFG has not a hope of ever being re-elected

Shefwedfan · 11-05-2020 07:04PM

Bowie wrote: »

As usual? Show your work.

I didn't over look their carry on, I don't see the comparison between a force used to oppress Irish people and one looking to gain equal rights and democracy for Irish people. Is it the killing has you confused?
The adults and I were discussing terms used and I spoke on 'west brit'.

Before you make yourself seem even more foolish, please note, a vote for SF isn't a vote for knee capping, neither is a vote for FG a vote for antisemetism or the Empire. Life isn't that straightforward.

How was killing a man in 2007 gaining equal rights or democracy for the Irish people?

You mentioned the RIC/B&T. Not me.

Bowie wrote: »

If that's not wanting to commemorate the RIC/Tans,.

What exactly any different to the B&T killing someone in the 1920 in a shed because they are a catholic to the IRA killing someone in 2007 because they are??? well because they didnt do what they want

I don't see any difference, maybe you can explain why you would?

Sorry to update, the B&T in 1920 were in a war against Ireland. The killing in 2007 the IRA were.....well just killing someone. Both are as equally repulsive to me.

Shefwedfan · 11-05-2020 07:07PM

Runaways wrote: »

If all I need is 5 to form a government why haven’t they then

Simply put FFFG Are as toxic to other parties and independents as Sinn Fein are made out to be

Anyone getting into bed with FFFG has not a hope of ever being re-elected

Really?

Based on what?

FrancieBrady · 11-05-2020 07:10PM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

How was killing a man in 2007 gaining equal rights or democracy for the Irish people?

You mentioned the RIC/B&T. Not me.

What exactly any different to the B&T killing someone in the 1920 in a shed because they are a catholic to the IRA killing someone in 2007 because they are??? well because they didnt do what they want

I don't see any difference, maybe you can explain why you would?

Somebody tell Shef that the IRA as an organisation was not involved in that murder.

James Brown · 11-05-2020 07:10PM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

How was killing a man in 2007 gaining equal rights or democracy for the Irish people?

No idea. Who made that claim?

Shefwedfan wrote: »

You mentioned the RIC/B&T. Not me.

So what? Are you looking for me to give you a point?

Shefwedfan wrote: »

What exactly any different to the B&T killing someone in the 1920 in a shed because they are a catholic to the IRA killing someone in 2007 because they are??? well because they didnt do what they want

I don't see any difference, maybe you can explain why you would?

Already did. I'm not here to educate you on life and how the world works. I'll tell you that it's complex. If you don't see the difference between a man being killed in a shed, by the IRA was it? Or the D Day landings killings, you should really educate yourself. That's a worrying psychological issue IMO.

James Brown · 11-05-2020 07:12PM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Really?

Based on what?

The Greens after going in with FF and Labour after going in with FG. Do you follow politics?

Shefwedfan · 11-05-2020 07:15PM

Bowie wrote: »

No idea. Who made that claim?

So what? Are you looking for me to give you a point?

Already did. I'm not here to educate you on life and how the world works. I'll tell you that it's complex. If you don't see the difference between a man being killed in a shed, by the IRA was it? Or the D Day landings killings, you should really educate yourself. That's a worrying psychological issue IMO.

You rightly seem to have an issue with the RIC/B&T but at the same time you defend the IRA/SF.

The IRA killed loads of people not for equal rights/ democracy as you claim. They killed them because they didnt do what the IRA wanted. Do you disagree with this?

P.S. less of the personal comments.....

all about the mane · 11-05-2020 07:19PM

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

So much anger on this thread from Francie, Matt Barrett and the lads. Steaming almost coming out their virtual ears.

Very amusing to read.

They definitely seem to be triggered this evening. Realisation what a mess the fishwife has made of things.

FrancieBrady · 11-05-2020 07:36PM

all about the mane wrote: »

They definitely seem to be triggered this evening. Realisation what a mess the fishwife has made of things.

Shef is fighting the conflict out again and sonebody is indulging in his cosy sexism...I think 'anger' is obviously in the eye of the beholders.

all about the mane · 11-05-2020 07:49PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Shef is fighting the conflict out again and sonebody is indulging in his cosy sexism...I think 'anger' is obviously in the eye of the beholders.

Cosy sexism :rolleyes:

FrancieBrady · 11-05-2020 07:52PM

all about the mane wrote: »

Cosy sexism :rolleyes:

Try and call any self respecting woman a 'fish wife' and you'll find out very quickly about your sexism.

Shefwedfan · 11-05-2020 07:52PM

all about the mane wrote: »

Cosy sexism :rolleyes:

:P

Now you see why it is better to ignore some of these "people"

blanch152 · 11-05-2020 08:14PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Somebody tell Shef that the IRA as an organisation was not involved in that murder.

Like most rational people in this country, I don't believe the IRA are innocent of Paul Quinn's murder. Some of those people give them a pass for it on account of the Peace Process baby in Sinn Fein's arms, I don't.

blanch152 · 11-05-2020 08:16PM

Edgware wrote: »

Shinner dictionary:

West Brit. . Tick
Free State. Tick.
Bomber Harris. Tick
Mehole. Tick
Denny. Tick

Just include one in any sentence and that counts as political argument.

You forgot the perennial favourite around here - Partitionist.

all about the mane · 11-05-2020 08:18PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Try and call any self respecting woman a 'fish wife' and you'll find out very quickly about your sexism.

How the hell is the term fishwife sexist?

FrancieBrady · 11-05-2020 08:19PM

blanch152 wrote: »

Like most rational people in this country, I don't believe the IRA are innocent of Paul Quinn's murder. Some of those people give them a pass for it on account of the Peace Process baby in Sinn Fein's arms, I don't.

That's handy, as usual.

FrancieBrady · 11-05-2020 08:22PM

all about the mane wrote: »

How the hell is the term fishwife sexist?

Cal a self respecting woman one and you'll learn very quickly. But I suspect you will reserve it for like minded male company and for behind a keyboard.

blanch152 · 11-05-2020 08:22PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Have you a link to where the IMC changed their stance?

Read Bertie's statement and he doesn't say, in a carefully worded statement, that he received different information.

Not aware of anyone here of that opinion.

I am fed up of mealy-mouthed statements from Sinn Fein people around Paul Quinn.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2020/independent-agency-says-ira-members-involved-in-paul-quinns-murder-38929663.html

(1) IRA members were involved in his killing and have been protected by Sinn Fein
(2) Sinn Fein public representatives made untrue public accusations of criminality against Paul Quinn and have refused to apologise.

No amount of word manipulation, selective quotation and perverse distraction can take away from that.

P.S. When the IMC said that they were "aware of no evidence linking the leadership of PIRA to the incident", that was very carefully worded and did not say what the IMC believed to be the case.

FrancieBrady · 11-05-2020 08:28PM

blanch152 wrote: »

I am fed up of mealy-mouthed statements from Sinn Fein people around Paul Quinn.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2020/independent-agency-says-ira-members-involved-in-paul-quinns-murder-38929663.html

(1) IRA members were involved in his killing and have been protected by Sinn Fein
(2) Sinn Fein public representatives made untrue public accusations of criminality against Paul Quinn and have refused to apologise.

No amount of word manipulation, selective quotation and perverse distraction can take away from that.

P.S. When the IMC said that they were "aware of no evidence linking the leadership of PIRA to the incident", that was very carefully worded and did not say what the IMC believed to be the case.

I quoted the IMC earlier...they said 'they had concluded' that the IRA were not involved.

Standard stuff after an investigation.

Did you find the updated change of this statement that you said existed?

gormdubhgorm · 11-05-2020 08:35PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

There is routine victim exploitation engaged in on here by the usual crew. They don't care about victims...they care about selective victims.

That is just the sickness of SF. That type of mentality. The fact is the whole ideology of violent republicanism is based on the cheapening of life itself.

Then the lives lost by Republicans in the name of Republicanism are given martyr status. They themselves become the exploited victims.

Meanwhile the innocent victims of of Republicanism - some of those you mentioned become an afterthought for Republicans. An irritant at best an afterthought at worst.
As I have said previously the covid19 crisis has shown people worldwide what is important in life health, real social freedom and happiness. The value of life and the value of an interconnected happy society.

SF Republicanism is stark contrast to this. It sees only a narrow viewpoint, and viewing life as cheap and a means to an end. It politicises everything the value of life, even the Irish language as well as society itself.
There are some fluent Irish speakers who refuse to wear the fainne for the very reason that they do not want to be associated with 'oh ah up the ra' SF.
How sad is that when an Irish speaker can no longer be proud of thier language, because of SF's association with it.

James Brown · 11-05-2020 08:36PM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

You rightly seem to have an issue with the RIC/B&T but at the same time you defend the IRA/SF.

The IRA killed loads of people not for equal rights/ democracy as you claim. They killed them because they didnt do what the IRA wanted. Do you disagree with this?

P.S. less of the personal comments.....

Why do you think I'm right to have an issue with the RIC/Tans?
Do I? Examples please.

Any reading I've done on the IRA would disagree with your opinion. They had a reason for coming into existence. you might not like it, and that's cool.
Probably. I doubt they killed anyone for doing what they wanted them to do. TBH chatting with you is like chatting with a 12 year old. I'm trying to explain to you that somebody killing somebody can be done for varying reasons. Some you might agree with, some you might not. It's not as straightforward as you seem to suggest.

Now, where are you on 'being in opposition is no good to anyone'?

James Brown · 11-05-2020 08:43PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

That is just the sickness of SF that type of mentality the fact is the whole idelogy of violent republicanism is based on the cheapening of life itself.
Then the lives lost by Republicans in the name of Republicanism are given martyr status. They themselves become the exploited victims.
Meanwhile the innocent victims of of Republicansim - some of those you mentioned become an afterthought for Republicans. An irritant at best an afterthought at worst.
As I have said previously the covid19 crisis has shown people worldwide what is important in life health, real social freedom and happiness. The value of life and the value of an interconnected happy society.

SF Republicanism is stark contrast to this. It sees only a narrow viewpoint, and viewing life as cheap and a means to an end. It politicises everything the value of life, even the Irish language as well as society itself.

The hypocrisy is dripping off youse lads. Youse can't hold a conversation without dragging some poor murder victim into it. Happily the general public are of a higher standard.
If you want examples of life being cheap look at how FF/FG run Ireland and excuse away national crises.

I give SF a vote because they're our best chance at getting rid of FF/FG and they won't sell out the tax payer to vulture funds and billionaires. Simple as that. I've not planted any car bombs. Pretty sure neither has MLMD

FrancieBrady · 11-05-2020 08:44PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

That is just the sickness of SF. That type of mentality. The fact is the whole ideology of violent republicanism is based on the cheapening of life itself.

Then the lives lost by Republicans in the name of Republicanism are given martyr status. They themselves become the exploited victims.

Meanwhile the innocent victims of of Republicanism - some of those you mentioned become an afterthought for Republicans. An irritant at best an afterthought at worst.
As I have said previously the covid19 crisis has shown people worldwide what is important in life health, real social freedom and happiness. The value of life and the value of an interconnected happy society.

SF Republicanism is stark contrast to this. It sees only a narrow viewpoint, and viewing life as cheap and a means to an end. It politicises everything the value of life, even the Irish language as well as society itself.
There are some fluent Irish speakers who refuse to wear the fainne for the very reason that they do not want to be associated with 'oh ah up the ra' SF.
How sad is that when an Irish speaker can no longer be proud of thier language, because of SF's association with it.

Give us a few examples of these will you...until we see what the dasteredly republicans are denying us.

interconnected happy society.

gormdubhgorm · 11-05-2020 08:56PM

Bowie wrote: »

The hypocrisy is dripping off youse lads. Youse can't hold a conversation without dragging some poor murder victim into it. Happily the general public are of a higher standard.
If you want examples of life being cheap look at how FF/FG run Ireland and excuse away national crises.

I give SF a vote because they're our best chance at getting rid of FF/FG and they won't sell out the tax payer to vulture funds and billionaires. Simple as that. I've not planted any car bombs. Pretty sure neither has MLMD

Ok mention some murders/murder cover ups, rape cover ups, pedophile cover ups Leo, Enda, Micheal Martin, Brendan Howlin, Alan Kelly, Eamon Ryan, Rosin Shorthall have been involved in? Have any of thier party members being caught spying in the dail lately? Like O'Snodaigh's team of helpers?

Because if any has serious questions should be asked. Plus if anyone is doing the dragging of murder victims it is by SF hands or associates.

Of course in your mind we should accept it as normal.
The former leader of your party SF hid his Peado brother in Republican circles for years for example!
Another 'good republican' was done for tax evasion and jailed. Yet the same former leader described him as good republican!

All of those things should be met with a shrug of the shoulder should they?
Sure what is justice for a few murder or rape victims, between friends?
Sure doesn't every party do it?
Is that the attitude you want?

Shefwedfan · 11-05-2020 08:56PM

Bowie wrote: »

Why do you think I'm right to have an issue with the RIC/Tans?
Do I? Examples please.

Any reading I've done on the IRA would disagree with your opinion. They had a reason for coming into existence. you might not like it, and that's cool.
Probably. I doubt they killed anyone for doing what they wanted them to do. TBH chatting with you is like chatting with a 12 year old. I'm trying to explain to you that somebody killing somebody can be done for varying reasons. Some you might agree with, some you might not. It's not as straightforward as you seem to suggest.

Now, where are you on 'being in opposition is no good to anyone'?

Go back to the question and quit with your nonsense this time.

Do you think the IRA has a right to kill someone in 2007?

If you think that is ok then what reason do you think it is?

Do you think it is ok for a political party to
1. Cover up for the IRA
2. Try to discredit the person killed
3 the leader of party lie about comments made by a representative of the her party?

Thanks

gormdubhgorm · 11-05-2020 09:00PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Give us a few examples of these will you...until we see what the dasteredly republicans are denying us.

Ask any of those in Republican circles who are seeking justice - Maria Cahill, the Quinn family etc
There is no ordinary human decency. Only SF justice when it sees fit - like how Denis Donaldson was dealt with. A really 'happy go lucky party gang' it is altogether. As long as you follow thier rules......
Not the rule of law...thier rules.

Shefwedfan · 11-05-2020 09:01PM

Bowie wrote: »

The hypocrisy is dripping off youse lads. Youse can't hold a conversation without dragging some poor murder victim into it. Happily the general public are of a higher standard.
If you want examples of life being cheap look at how FF/FG run Ireland and excuse away national crises.

I give SF a vote because they're our best chance at getting rid of FF/FG and they won't sell out the tax payer to vulture funds and billionaires. Simple as that. I've not planted any car bombs. Pretty sure neither has MLMD

You mention the B&T and brought it into the conversation....

As per my example, the IRA murdering innocent people is the exact same as what the B&T done.

FrancieBrady · 11-05-2020 09:05PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Ask any of those in Republican circles who are seeking justice - Maria Cahill, the Quinn family etc
There is no ordinary human decency. Only SF justice when it sees fit like how Denis Donaldson was dealt. A really 'happy go lucky party' it is altogether. As long as you follow thier rules......
Not the rule of law...thier rules.

Ask many many people here how they feel about the ordinary human decency of so many things. Only 20% of people think FG come up to muster in delivering that.

We had a 40 year long conflict/war here, that is going to take genertions to get over.

I voted for SF because I think they are moving forward from that and offering an alternative. We can be here all night trading awfulness that happened in that conflict.

I notice you seem reticent about giving us examples of these nirvanish 'happy societies'. I wonder why?

Is it just me or have SF vanished?

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