Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker Spoilers from post 2076

Tony EH · 10-05-2020 4:58pm

Shakey_jake wrote: »

We've decoded the intel from the spy, and it confirms the worst.

Somehow Palpatine returned.

Like WHO thought this was a good IDEA!!??

The same people who though fobbing off the audience with "That's a story for another time", when everyone was asking how the hell Maz Cantina ended up with Luke's lightsaber.

They don't care. They know there's an army of people out there that just want and will be happy with any kind of a Star Wars fix, no matter what ridiculous loops they have to go through to justify bad storytelling.

Lol..."Somehow the Emperor has returned..." ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

beauf · 10-05-2020 5:36pm

All people want is a new story in the same world/universe. Stop trying to make sense of storyline that's unfixable. At this point they've damaged all those the original characters so badly, no one wants to see them anymore. I no longer care what happens to any characters from theses movies.

SMC92Ian · 10-05-2020 11:11pm

Speak for yourselves, I enjoyed the new trilogy, I'm not a SW fan but enjoyed these new films, Mando and Clone Wars, you can keep your old sh*te. lol

CinemaGuy45 · 10-05-2020 11:16pm

Total flop and a financial loss for Disney

SMC92Ian wrote: »

Speak for yourselves, I enjoyed the new trilogy, I'm not a SW fan but enjoyed these new films, Mando and Clone Wars, you can keep your old sh*te. lol

I bet you like these also.

twilight+-+breaking+wind.jpg

SMC92Ian · 11-05-2020 2:30pm

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

I bet you like these also.

Yes I actually did enjoy the first Twilight when it came out, it was nicely shot and I was a fan of the director after she done that Lords of Dogtown film.

CinemaGuy45 · 11-05-2020 2:43pm

Total flop and a financial loss for Disney

SMC92Ian wrote: »

Yes I actually did enjoy the first Twilight when it came out, it was nicely shot and I was a fan of the director after she done that Lords of Dogtown film.

Glad you took my little joke as a joke.:)

However you said it you are not really a Star Wars fan for people who grew up with Star Wars this new trilogy is just pure garbage.

Rogue One was the only decent film Disney managed to put out.

It does not matter anyway we all move on for me some of the stuff of the steaming services grab my attention for a binge watch.

Apple TV+ has a few original shows worth a watch Defending Jacob and See are really good with high production values.
Lost in Space on Netflix and the Expanse of Prime.

The Mandalorian was good but being honest I could not see myself going back to rewatch it.

pixelburp · 11-05-2020 3:02pm

beauf wrote: »

All people want is a new story in the same world/universe. Stop trying to make sense of storyline that's unfixable. At this point they've damaged all those the original characters so badly, no one wants to see them anymore. I no longer care what happens to any characters from theses movies.

That's debatable though; there are as many people who want new stories as those who just want that nostalgic dopamine hit, the same taste as you remember it. That's the problem with franchises with vocal fandom - it's impossible to please everyone, all of them time and trying to thread that needle ends up with precisely the kind of mess SW finds itself in (narratively). In an ideal world, an IP or series should be confident enough to pursue its own story come what may - made all theharder if studio or commercial interference prevents complete autonomy. Something which, in my opinion, is the fundamental problem with Star Wars as a world. Both its owners are infamous as being aggressively focused on branding and merchandise.

So as an over-reaction to Last Jedi's own extreme rejigging of the canon, Episode XI took pandering to the Nth degree; while some fans loved the arbitrary character drops, many hated it. If Last Jedi was a risk that didn't pay off, Rise of Skywalker was the Safe Bet that didn't either; the relatively poor box office spoke to the hate possibly winning out too. And while The Mandolorian has generally been fun AND a new story told within the universe, it wasn't immune to pointless Fan Service either.

beauf · 11-05-2020 3:45pm

There is no once case fits all, certainly, and you will never please everyone.

But the main flaw in the bad movies, is consistently the plot, the storyline. Trying to rein in a story line thats beyond saving.

This is what they did... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4fBbhyzE9A

The original story is basically a western. Westerns generally don't have too deep a backstory, the man with no name etc. They just don't need it.
Lucas generally creates a scene, a set piece of action, usually around some visual prop or scene. He couldn't write dialogue or plot.

That's the problem. You don't need to explain everything. Falls apart when they try.

pixelburp · 11-05-2020 5:16pm

beauf wrote: »

There is no once case fits all, certainly, and you will never please everyone.

But the main flaw in the bad movies, is consistently the plot, the storyline. Trying to rein in a story line thats beyond saving.

This is what they did... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4fBbhyzE9A

The original story is basically a western. Westerns generally don't have too deep a backstory, the man with no name etc. They just don't need it.
Lucas generally creates a scene, a set piece of action, usually around some visual prop or scene. He couldn't write dialogue or plot.

That's the problem. You don't need to explain everything. Falls apart when they try.

Yeah, I dunno. Star Wars as a "Thing" is kinda weird overall - sometimes I can't put my finger on what (beyond Disney's own actions) prevents it from successful expansion. You're right, there was a sense of Frontier storytelling in New Hope, that pulse of the Western. But, it's also a franchise that needs to be a $250 million blockbuster and an "Event" - which necessitates that "Four Quadrant" approach. It's a square that feels impossible to circle. Actual Westerns in their heyday were incredibly cheap to make - but profitable at their highpoint. Period wardrobe, rent some locations in California / Spain and off you trot. Star Wars demands a scale that makes them inherently more risk averse productions.

Perhaps what made Mandolorian such a success was that relatively smaller scale of medium meant people's expectations were much lower. I know mine were: I wasn't expecting huge spectacle but something smaller in narrative scope (if not presentational, the show looked like a blockbuster).

Seems like there's scope for a bunch of middling budgeted spin-offs, but not the will to take a chance. Like, "Pitch Black" to take a random genre B-movie, only in the Star Wars universe & scaled back to PG-13 could be a great one - but as I said, it feels like the law of Hollywood scaling dictates SW movies can only be behemoths.

Runaways · 11-05-2020 5:35pm

People write reams that are Stacks of phonebooks thick on ‘why Star Wars is shît’ without really Ever stopping to consider that that’s just their opinion it doesn’t mean it’s actually the Case for everyone.
The majority of people just enjoy it and move on but for some reason those that don’t like it seem to have an axe to grind and endless hours to spare complaining about it. The common thread seems to be
“ it’s not as good as the ones I grew up with” Even if that’s not stated although it usually is; that’s Really what’s happening

Taika Waititi hit he nail on the head just last week for me.

‘ it doesn’t take itself too seriously but it believes in itself ‘

It’s supposed to be just fun for all and accessible to all

I’m not sure what the detractors want
It was never and will never be tailor-made to fit each of Our personal demands that’s not how any blockbuster franchise works. We have all become very demanding and entitled I guess I n this Internet age

Tony EH · 11-05-2020 5:47pm

Star Wars isn't hard, or at least shouldn't be. It only becomes difficult when you have writers that don't know what to do with the sandbox they find themselves in and a media company that insists on box ticking exercises with regards to characters. Characters that inevitably become redundant because the writers can't come up with anything for them to do.

These sequels should have been fairly easy to write. Have Rey (the lead was obviously going to be a female because of the "crimes" of the six other films) as a fledging Jedi who goes to Luke to train, because there is a new threat that's striking against Leia's New Republic. It couldn't be easier. No need for Finn, Poe, Admiral whateverhername, Jannah, Hux, Kylo, Rose, Zori whoever, or a whole host of other nobodies. littering the screen and eventually becoming just too many people in a non-existent story. You could excise about 70% of the people in these sequels and nothing would matter. Likewise, there's no need for the First Order, the Emperor and any other cut price Imperial knock offs.

It's all the result of cowardly approach by Disney, who were content to simply riff on (and ruin) what came before, because they were terrified to write something relatively "new". What we ended up with was a monumental waste of everybody's time and a confused mess that stands up as an example of what not to do when you spend a fortune buying a franchise from somebody.

If anything has shown how Star Wars "should" be done, it's been 'Rogue One' and 'The Mandalorian', which feature (relatively) new characters in a familiar setting, inhabiting their own story and without the need to wreck characters that came before. These have been, by far and away, the most popular efforts by Disney to capture what Star Wars is to most people. They are almost universally liked and have courted the least controversy from fans and non-fans alike.

This is the way and I have spoken. :pac:

Tony EH · 11-05-2020 5:50pm

Runaways wrote: »

People write reams that are Stacks of phonebooks thick on ‘why Star Wars is shît’ without really Ever stopping to consider that that’s just their opinion it doesn’t mean it’s actually the Case for everyone.

This is utterly meaningless.

Every judgement call is someone's opinion. Saying so doesn't change anything and it's never any kind of retort.

It's like saying water is wet.

Runaways · 11-05-2020 6:09pm

Really good thread on what’s going on in TROS Which I know I missed a lot of. But not seen it again since the cinema
It is worth a read if you can take the ‘It’s shît” Goggles off for just a minute.
https://twitter.com/jgfidelis52/status/1259681781156061186?s=21

SMC92Ian · 11-05-2020 6:26pm

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

Glad you took my little joke as a joke.:)

However you said it you are not really a Star Wars fan for people who grew up with Star Wars this new trilogy is just pure garbage.

Rogue One was the only decent film Disney managed to put out.

It does not matter anyway we all move on for me some of the stuff of the steaming services grab my attention for a binge watch.

Apple TV+ has a few original shows worth a watch Defending Jacob and See are really good with high production values.
Lost in Space on Netflix and the Expanse of Prime.

The Mandalorian was good but being honest I could not see myself going back to rewatch it.

I disagree it's not garbage, it's just for a new audience, I think the originals are dreadful films to watch, I love how they were made and love Lucas but those films are terrible. The prequels also are far far worse. Attack of the Clones is a dreadful film.

Star Wars will never be like the 77 film ever again, it's not just Star Wars, it's any movie, they're just not done that way anymore. I think most need to accept it and let go.

I didn't see Rouge One or Solo as I don't like the old stuff and never seen them properly. I only watch Force Awakens cause I friend told me Solo finally died haha.

SMC92Ian · 11-05-2020 6:30pm

I'd also like to ad, if the new films are **** then you should be used to it as Star Wars has always been ****, it's not like Episode 4 was a masterclass in writing and acting. If it wasn't for it's pioneering of effects and coming out in 1977 it'd be long forgotten.

Homelander · 11-05-2020 6:41pm

It's not just a case of "it's not for you, you don't get it". They just weren't great movies, the the last one was particularly weak.

Critics gave it some of the weakest reviews of the entire franchise, it barely made more at the box office than Rogue One (and it cost a lot more in the overall scheme of things), made the least amount of money of all 3 movies, and it has the same score as Attack of the Clones on IMDB.

People universally liked The Force Awakens - the degree to which varies, but a very small minority of people thought it was actually bad. Apart from a generally small minority, most general audiences/critics liked The Last Jedi.

The real turkey was Rise of Skywalker. It's the new trilogies "Attack of the Clones", but made all the more worse considering it's the closing rather than bridging chapter so it leaves a far more sour taste.

Like, I personally think Attack of the Clones is fairly crap but I find it tolerable because it's just a stepping stone that's bordered by much better movies on either side (not saying they are brilliant, but relatively speaking).

There's this weird sentiment in some places that people who don't like the new trilogy, or Rise of Skywalker in particular, are somehow nit-picking, or are desperate to find fault that doesn't really exist.

I would say the almost universal praise and popularity of Rogue One and The Mandalorian shows that isn't remotely credible.

SMC92Ian · 11-05-2020 6:46pm

I blame the fanbase for everything wrong with Rise of Skywalker, they went f**king mental after Last Jedi. Murder notes, killing, talking about killing some of the cast, all sorts of bat sh*t crazy stuff! Star Wars die hard's are pure psychos.

Saying ROS is worse than AOTC make you bat **** crazy haha.

beauf · 11-05-2020 7:35pm

SMC92Ian wrote: »

I disagree it's not garbage, it's just for a new audience, I think the originals are dreadful films to watch, I love how they were made and love Lucas but those films are terrible. The prequels also are far far worse. Attack of the Clones is a dreadful film.

Star Wars will never be like the 77 film ever again, it's not just Star Wars, it's any movie, they're just not done that way anymore. I think most need to accept it and let go.

I didn't see Rouge One or Solo as I don't like the old stuff and never seen them properly. I only watch Force Awakens cause I friend told me Solo finally died haha.

The originals are 42 yrs old. So its unfair to judge them against modern films, and indeed films that aren't of the same age rating.

Rogue One and Solo, I think can be watched even if you watched none of the other films. Because they are pretty much self contained stories.

We aren't complaining because the new films are not like the 77 film. Its because they are bad. You can like a bad movie. But that doesn't change that its still a bad movie.

beauf · 11-05-2020 7:38pm

SMC92Ian wrote: »

I blame the fanbase for everything wrong with Rise of Skywalker, they went f**king mental after Last Jedi. Murder notes, killing, talking about killing some of the cast, all sorts of bat sh*t crazy stuff! Star Wars die hard's are pure psychos.

Saying ROS is worse than AOTC make you bat **** crazy haha.

None of that is right obviously.

But you can't do an abysmal job with so many plot holes and expect people to be happy about it.

beauf · 11-05-2020 7:42pm

SMC92Ian wrote: »

I'd also like to ad, if the new films are **** then you should be used to it as Star Wars has always been ****, it's not like Episode 4 was a masterclass in writing and acting. If it wasn't for it's pioneering of effects and coming out in 1977 it'd be long forgotten.

Since you haven't seen them....

There are lot of effect movies that are all forgotten. So logically there has to be more to it than that.

beauf · 11-05-2020 7:47pm

Runaways wrote: »

People write reams that are Stacks of phonebooks thick on ‘why Star Wars is shît’ without really Ever stopping to consider that that’s just their opinion it doesn’t mean it’s actually the Case for everyone.
The majority of people just enjoy it and move on but for some reason those that don’t like it seem to have an axe to grind and endless hours to spare complaining about it. The common thread seems to be
“ it’s not as good as the ones I grew up with” Even if that’s not stated although ...

That's not it at all.

Some of the movies are decent and some are meh and some are just utter drivel.

Its not just a handful of people complaining. Its vast amounts of people complaining. Adults and kids.

Runaways · 11-05-2020 7:52pm

SMC92Ian wrote: »

I blame the fanbase for everything wrong with Rise of Skywalker, they went f**king mental after Last Jedi. Murder notes, killing, talking about killing some of the cast, all sorts of bat sh*t crazy stuff! Star Wars die hard's are pure psychos.

Saying ROS is worse than AOTC make you bat **** crazy haha.

The gamer gate Movement saw vast swathes of its Crowd switch to attacking all modern franchises they’re still doing it look up the fandom Menace
A cohort dedicated to attacking anyone involved in creating Star Wars and anyone dumb enough to say they like Star Wars online
They are proud of it too And very open about it

Insecure arseholes in their mothers basement basically

Runaways · 11-05-2020 8:47pm

beauf wrote: »

That's not it at all.

Some of the movies are decent and some are meh and some are just utter drivel.

Its not just a handful of people complaining. Its vast amounts of people complaining. Adults and kids.

In your opinion
And of course many share that opinion
But many others don’t and really enjoyed it
The blanket sweeping statement that I think its shît therefore it’s **** isn’t how it works And not you yourself but the endless online ranting trying to convince people to conform to my view or the highway these days but everything is what’s wrong here and it’s not confined to Star Wars it’s on everything

Agent Coulson · 11-05-2020 10:35pm

Having watched in the cinema and thinking it was a big pile of ****e I now stand by that opinion after watching it again on Disney plus.

SMC92Ian · 11-05-2020 11:44pm

It's all opinion and the original SW stayed around because it was the first. If it came out 10 years later after we got like Blade Runner, Terminator etc it'd be laughed out of the cinema for it's acting and dialogue.

And telling me not to compare the old films to the newer ones is wrong? Isn't that was the originals fanboy lot are doing? Crying all over Twitter "ItS nOt LiKe dA olDaR FilEms"

Wedwood · 12-05-2020 12:12am

BTW, there were plenty of people who didn’t like/had no interest in Star Wars during the original movies as well. They mainly just shrugged/ignored the movies and watched whatever they did like.

If you don’t like the new movies, or prequels or whatever, that’s fine, just stop watching them over and over again and move on to something you actually do like.

ErnestBorgnine · 12-05-2020 12:27am

Had to sit through Rise of the MacGuffins the other day for the 2nd and hopefully last time. It truly is God awful. JJ's 'let's keep everything moving at such a pace that hopefully they won't notice that none of this makes a lick of sense' technique must surely only work on the most feeble minded.

A thousand Star Destroyers with a thousand Death Star cannons hidden in the ocean :pac: You have to admire JJ's ability to make money when it's clear he's a creativity black hole, aping talented directors of the 70s and 80s as he vandalises every franchise he can get his hands on with Bad Reboot.

SMC92Ian · 12-05-2020 12:33am

ErnestBorgnine wrote: »

Had to sit through Rise of the MacGuffins the other day for the 2nd and hopefully last time. It truly is God awful. JJ's 'let's keep everything moving at such a pace that hopefully they won't notice that none of this makes a lick of sense' technique must surely only work on the most feeble minded.

A thousand Star Destroyers with a thousand Death Star cannons hidden in the ocean :pac: You have to admire JJ's ability to make money when it's clear he's a creativity black hole, aping talented directors of the 70s and 80s as he vandalises every franchise he can get his hands on with Bad Reboot.

It's a film about stupid laser guns and laser swords. Turn your brain off. Enjoy it. Star Wars is for kids. Stop over anylising it. Bang, pow, zap.

ErnestBorgnine · 12-05-2020 12:36am

SMC92Ian wrote: »

It's a film about stupid laser guns and laser swords. Turn your brain off. Enjoy it. Star Wars is for kids. Stop over anylising it. Bang, pow, zap.

Even the slightest bit of analysis would conclude that this is objectively tripe. Perhaps you should turn your brain on??

SMC92Ian · 12-05-2020 12:39am

ErnestBorgnine wrote: »

Even the slightest bit of analysis would conclude that this is objectively tripe. Perhaps you should turn your brain on??

I did and love the new films, beautiful looking films with great craic to be had.

Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker **Spoilers from post 2076**

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Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker Spoilers from post 2076