Bicycles, Phoenix Park and traffic

KevRossi · 11-05-2020 1:08pm #1

Maybe I'm missing something, but does anyone know where you can park a bike in the Phoenix Park? There doesn't seem to be any bike stands that I can see.

I was there on Saturday and was asked not to lock it to the railings/fence. When I asked if there was a dedicated bike parking place, the ranger just said: "Don't lock it to the railings." He seemed stressed so I just left it at that.

I know there's parking outside the main entrance beside the Criminal Courts, but is there one inside?

buffalo · 11-05-2020 1:26pm

KevRossi wrote: »

Maybe I'm missing something, but does anyone know where you can park a bike in the Phoenix Park? There doesn't seem to be any bike stands that I can see.

I was there on Saturday and was asked not to lock it to the railings/fence. When I asked if there was a dedicated bike parking place, the ranger just said: "Don't lock it to the railings." He seemed stressed so I just left it at that.

I know there's parking outside the main entrance beside the Criminal Courts, but is there one inside?

There are some good and some bad racks at the visitor centre at Ashtown Castle. Other than that, I don't know of any. Might be some at the Zoo?

Stark · 11-05-2020 1:28pm

Some good ones (proper sheffield stand type) at the visitor centre.

They installed some recently outside Garda HQ though I think they're the ****ty ones that only allow you to lock your wheel to the rack so you have the pleasure of coming home to a wheel and no frame or a buckled wheel.

KevRossi · 11-05-2020 8:08pm

Was up there again today.

Only racks are at Ashtown Castle, no idea when this is locked. No racks at the Zoo, Papal Cross or the main entrances.

It's all a bit bizarre for a major park.

Stark · 11-05-2020 10:03pm

Obviously you're supposed to drive to the Park, not cycle there :pac:

ozzy jr · 11-05-2020 11:29pm

Might be worthy of a separate thread, but how great it is at the moment to cycle around the park with very little traffic and no parking on the main road.

On Saturday it was packed with people of all ages on bikes. The cycle paths were still full of walkers but they weren't needed as the roads were free.

Wouldn't it be great if they closed the park to traffic at weekends. Unlikely I know with the zoo being there, but if they just opened Chesterfield avenue and left the rest car free, it would be a great start.

Hurrache · 12-05-2020 9:02am

Very great. You could have permanent farmers market type food areas, activity centres, all sorts and the place would be great. Regular visitors will know already how busy the cafes at the visitors centre and boat house are, and they're at the same end of the park.

https://twitter.com/AnTaisce/status/1260074506019901440

KevRossi · 12-05-2020 9:43am

Yeah, it's something to work towards. I agree that only Chesterfield should be open for cars, with access only to OSI, St Mary's etc. It's a bit mad at the moment where cars get so much space.

This is a great example; road is full of bikes and people at the moment, but ordinarily pedestrians haven't the space to pass each other safely. https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.348267,-6.3143946,3a,75y,197.56h,73.54t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sa5jvcPPWhkkwdZw0yf_kpQ!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Da5jvcPPWhkkwdZw0yf_kpQ%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dsearch.revgeo_and_fetch.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D96%26h%3D64%26yaw%3D40.24991%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656

500 bike stands dotted around the place would be nice too.

tomasrojo · 12-05-2020 9:55am

KevRossi wrote: »

Was up there again today.

Only racks are at Ashtown Castle, no idea when this is locked. No racks at the Zoo, Papal Cross or the main entrances.

It's all a bit bizarre for a major park.

Are there any by the playground that's down the escarpment from Infirmary Road?

KevRossi · 12-05-2020 10:09am

tomasrojo wrote: »

Are there any by the playground that's down the escarpment from Infirmary Road?

No idea, but looking at Street View the answer seems to be no. If you are going there, there's plenty of space to lock a bike to the railings: https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3514345,-6.2984133,3a,75y,94.16h,80.55t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKGZqOp6ulLF0-HwYiHmZHQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

tomasrojo · 12-05-2020 10:27am

Yeah, I don't recall there being bike parking there, which just shows how odd the parking provisions is in the park. It's pretty standard to have bike parking beside a playground.

Hurrache · 12-05-2020 10:28am

It's not as popular as the one at the castle, you'll see bikes all over the place at that one.

Mercian Pro · 12-05-2020 12:16pm

OPW seem to have a very mixed view on cycling in the Park. On the positive side, there is the bike-hire facility and they have put in quite a network of cycle paths but on the negative, other than on Chesterfield Avenue, they don't join up and I have never seen park rangers tell pedestrians to get off them. They have also refused permission for any competitive cycling events but regularly allow jogging and running events that divert motor traffic onto the cycle-friendly perimeter roads.

Their recent draft development plan made virtually no mention of cycling despite the fact that it is a hugely popular activity with both leisure and sports cyclists making good use of a fantastic amenity.

checky88 · 12-05-2020 2:20pm

Im nearly sure that there is sheffield bike stands at the bottom of the kyber beside Magazine Fort no?

magicbastarder · 12-05-2020 2:23pm

Mercian Pro wrote: »

They have also refused permission for any competitive cycling events

any reason given? insurance?

buffalo · 12-05-2020 2:39pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

any reason given? insurance?

There was an Orwell race there in May 2017, and National Champs was going to be held there (until Joe Biden showed up), so I think a blanket statement that the OPW refuse permission isn't accurate. Plenty of duathlons too which include cycling.

beauf · 12-05-2020 3:35pm

Does the Tour De France count?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCJidqzlA1c

There should be a cafe, toilets and bike air and repair facilities in the park. Handy for all cyclists be they leisure riders and commuters and kids.

OPW has strange ideas all the time. They'd ban people if they could.

Seth Brundle · 12-05-2020 8:26pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

any reason given? insurance?

Doubtful given that the only reason motor racing stopped there was due to a lack of sponsorship (AFAIK).

Pa ElGrande · 12-05-2020 10:08pm

KevRossi wrote: »

Maybe I'm missing something, but does anyone know where you can park a bike in the Phoenix Park? There doesn't seem to be any bike stands that I can see.
. .. .

Since it was a nice evening I took my fixie for a spin around the park to find out.
There are Sheffield stands located at

Note: Some of the google maps photos were taken before the Sheffield stands were put in.

There are no bike stands or rails near the Papal Cross. There are rails near the Arás and the Furry Glen and most entrances. I do see bikes locked to the rails at times but in places where they don't obstruct footpaths or crossings which I imagine would be the rangers primary concern not creating hazards and minimise abandoned bikes and locks.

beauf · 12-05-2020 11:51pm

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Doubtful given that the only reason motor racing stopped there was due to a lack of sponsorship (AFAIK).

Was a bit tight for motor racing. Especially once they put in those roundabouts pretty much blocked most of the viable circuits for racing. You'd think they didn't want racing in the park.

Weepsie · 13-05-2020 12:19am

beauf wrote: »

Does the Tour De France count?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCJidqzlA1c

There should be a cafe, toilets and bike air and repair facilities in the park. Handy for all cyclists be they leisure riders and commuters and kids.

OPW has strange ideas all the time. They'd ban people if they could.

There are 3 cafes in the park. Well 2 plus Farmleigh

Seth Brundle · 13-05-2020 12:45am

beauf wrote: »

Was a bit tight for motor racing. Especially once they put in those roundabouts pretty much blocked most of the viable circuits for racing. You'd think they didn't want racing in the park.

The roundabouts shouldn't be too much of an issue except for drivers who keep going straight!
Most drivers would have been aiming for the apex so should have been on the other side of the road to the roundabout.

I marshalled there several times in a past life (in my orange overalls). Most drivers would make the corner grand. Mind you, some managed to hit the stumps of the gas lamps on the grass.on Chesterfield Ave (the lights themselves were removed but the concrete stump was left and covered with sandbags)

beauf · 13-05-2020 1:22am

Well I think they use them as an excuse not to have them.

https://phoenixparkmotorraces.ie/racing-tracks/

Mercian Pro · 13-05-2020 10:22am

buffalo wrote: »

There was an Orwell race there in May 2017, and National Champs was going to be held there (until Joe Biden showed up), so I think a blanket statement that the OPW refuse permission isn't accurate. Plenty of duathlons too which include cycling.

Apologies - I wasn't aware of the Orwell race in 2017. From looking into it, they seem to have been in negotiation with OPW for some time with a view to resurrecting the regular racing that took place in the distant past. When they agreed to host the National Championship in 2016, they got permission to use the Park but, as you say, that was scuppered by Joe Biden and Kilcullen became the venue. I think the solitary race the following year may have been in part compensation for this.

Like many other followers of the Velominati here, I don't regard cycling interrupted by a run (and/or a swim) as a cycle 😊

Mercian Pro · 14-05-2020 8:00pm

Spotted the 4 Sheffield stands near the Magazine Fort this morning. They are located beside the bollards at the car park near the bottom of the Khyber Road and painted dark green to blend in with the landscape! Some cyclists must have found them as there were three bikes there.

Stark · 14-05-2020 8:09pm

Gutted to hear that it will be business as usual traffic wise in the Park from Monday

Mercian Pro · 14-05-2020 8:32pm

Stark wrote: »

Gutted to hear that it will be business as usual traffic wise in the Park from Monday

Where was that announced? It's been brilliant up there recently on the perimeter roads with no traffic. Pedestrians have gotten used to using the cyclepath near the Ashtown Gate with nearly all cyclists using the road so that could interesting on Monday.

Stark · 14-05-2020 8:34pm

https://twitter.com/dublincommuters/status/1260988624130191360?s=12

Carawaystick · 14-05-2020 8:41pm

Weepsie wrote: »

There are 3 cafes in the park. Well 2 plus Farmleigh

Plus another 3 in the Zoo

KevRossi · 14-05-2020 8:50pm

Looks like they'll be opening the other perimeter gates from June 8th.

They should open the following for cars and leave the rest; they need to learn from the experiences of the past 7 weeks:

1. Chesterfield Ave, with access to car parks at Papal Cross, Dublin Zoo, Visitor Centre and OSI
2. Access at Chapelizod Rd. for St. Mary's Hospital
3. Access at Islandbridge for parking beside Magazine Fort

Anything else would be madness on their part, if they cannot see that the park is so much better with most of the the roads closed to cars then I have no hope for them.

https://www.rte.ie/news/dublin/2020/0514/1138463-phoenix-park/

Temporary safety measures are being introduced in Dublin's Phoenix Park from next Monday in response to the Covid-19 pandemic and to ensure social distancing can be maintained.

The Office of Public Works (OPW) said the use of the park as a recreational space has significantly increased in recent weeks.

In a statement, the OPW said that current cycling and pedestrian usage "has raised significant new road safety issues not experienced before to this extent and these will be exacerbated with the reintroduction of vehicles" into the park.

It said the measures being introduced "aim to provide the public with a safe place to practice social distancing from each other while they walk, run, exercise and travel by bike and adhere to the two metre (distance) rule".

The OPW said the measures are being introduced in consultation with gardaí.

The temporary measures being introduced include the following:

Provision of cocooning space at the Phoenix Park Visitor Centre walled garden from 10am to 1pm daily
Provision of priority cocooning car parking at the Phoenix Park Visitor Centre for those cocooning and using the walled garden
Repurposing of a portion of the North Road from the Cabra Gate to Garda Headquarters as a 2m-wide footpath
Instillation of one-way cycle lanes on the hard shoulder of Chesterfield Avenue to facilitate social distancing
Conversion of the current cycle lanes adjacent to Chesterfield Avenue into pedestrian footpaths
Opening of car parks at 10am daily from the 18 May in line with Phase One of the Government's road map
Dedicated parking areas for those taking early morning exercise
Prioritisation of car parking for Dublin Zoo patrons in conjunction with their phased reopening
Introduction of pedestrianised and leisure cycle shared space on Kyber Road
Reopening of the perimeter vehicular gates at 10am daily from 8 June in line with Phase Two of the road map
The OPW said the measure will be regularly reviewed in line with HSE guidelines and Government advice.

Mercian Pro · 14-05-2020 9:01pm

OPW's new measures in response to increased numbers of cyclists and pedestrians:

"The temporary measures being introduced include the following:

Provision of cocooning space at the Phoenix Park Visitor Centre walled garden from 10am to 1pm daily
Provision of priority cocooning car parking at the Phoenix Park Visitor Centre for those cocooning and using the walled garden
Repurposing of a portion of the North Road from the Cabra Gate to Garda Headquarters as a 2m-wide footpath
Instillation of one-way cycle lanes on the hard shoulder of Chesterfield Avenue to facilitate social distancing
Conversion of the current cycle lanes adjacent to Chesterfield Avenue into pedestrian footpaths
Opening of car parks at 10am daily from the 18 May in line with Phase One of the Government's road map
Dedicated parking areas for those taking early morning exercise
Prioritisation of car parking for Dublin Zoo patrons in conjunction with their phased reopening
Introduction of pedestrianised and leisure cycle shared space on Kyber Road
Reopening of the perimeter vehicular gates at 10am daily from 8 June in line with Phase Two of the road map"

So essentially cyclists are being moved off the dedicated cycle paths on Chesterfield Avenue and on to the hard shoulder. The North Road already has a one-way cycle lane heading west so is this going to be the new 2m footpath? The Khyber Road shared space has been there for ages. Thankfully this all to happen by the 8th June according to OPW although RTE mention next Monday!

Hurrache · 15-05-2020 12:19am

Stark wrote: »

https://twitter.com/dublincommuters/status/1260988624130191360?s=12

Their statement is absolutely bereft of logic

beauf · 15-05-2020 12:47am

Carawaystick wrote: »

Plus another 3 in the Zoo

I'm not sure that useful to the passing cyclists, considering you have to pay in and its not open in the morning or evening when I'm passing. If you are just out for the day in the park, then maybe.

I don't know the hours of the farmleigh one, its too far off the beaten track. The Visitor center though I've used a lot. I think it has longer opening hours.

beauf · 15-05-2020 12:57am

Hurrache wrote: »

Their statement is absolutely bereft of logic

Why?

The current cycle paths have always caused problems, especially when theres a lot of pedestrians, like when there an event on, or just a nice day. I assume its mobbed now.

OPW always take every opportunity to reduce car access. They've even closed roads, for no reason in the past.

Currently the side gates are closed and there's police check points at the main entrance, not been through them yet. But I don't know exactly as I've not been in it, since the start of the lock down. I assume they were limiting car access and are not opening it up a little.

Weepsie · 15-05-2020 9:00am

beauf wrote: »

I don't know the hours of the farmleigh one, its too far off the beaten track. The Visitor center though I've used a lot. I think it has longer opening hours.

It's really not that much more a hassle than the visitor center one and often not so busy

Hurrache · 15-05-2020 9:12am

beauf wrote: »

Why?

Basically saying the amount of cyclists and pedestrians

has raised significant new road safety issues not experienced before to this extent and these will be exacerbated with the reintroduction of vehicles

and we're going to ease restrictions on vehicular traffic.

beauf · 15-05-2020 9:52am

Weepsie wrote: »

It's really not that much more a hassle than the visitor center one and often not so busy

That's true if you're just out for day outing.

I'm more thinking of commuting and you want a pitstop on the way to or from from work. I guess that's unrealistic anyway.

I'll get my coat...

Weepsie · 15-05-2020 10:10am

beauf wrote: »

That's true if you're just out for day outing.

I'm more thinking of commuting and you want a pitstop on the way to or from from work. I guess that's unrealistic anyway.

I'll get my coat...

Fair enough.If just passing through, it's not that handy, unless you're going in at the Gates beside farmleigh.

The visitor centre has the coffee dock too.

Stark · 15-05-2020 10:11am

Visitor centre feels like a victim of its own success a lot of the time. The coffee and the food there are amazing but unless you go really early or late, it can be quite a stressful experience with the crowds.

beauf · 15-05-2020 10:46am

Stark wrote: »

Visitor centre feels like a victim of its own success a lot of the time. The coffee and the food there are amazing but unless you go really early or late, it can be quite a stressful experience with the crowds.

What are the opening hours of both?

Neither is cheap but Farmleigh seems particularly expensive. What are their opening hours?

The visitor center is more for foodies though. Can struggle to get something plain for kids in it. Love both though.

mvt · 15-05-2020 11:07am

Moving the cycle lane onto Chesterfield Avenue whilst also allowing car parking along it doesn't sound like a great idea.

Also think that the amount of folk walking will start to dwindle as the shops open up.

Even the small increase in cars over the last week or so has taken away from the nice feeling of a actual park.

Hurrache · 15-05-2020 11:17am

mvt wrote: »

Even the small increase in cars over the last week or so has taken away from the nice feeling of a actual park.

I find the presence of people usually take away the nice feeling of anywhere!

KevRossi · 15-05-2020 11:31am

There's a petition up to stop all through traffic, seems to be gathering some momentum. I accept Chesterfield Ave is a through road for many people and with poor public transport many people have no option. I'm not sure about closing it for all through traffic, would prefer to see it left as it is the past few weeks, with traffic on all other roads banned.

https://my.uplift.ie/petitions/no-more-traffic-through-phoenix-park

beauf · 15-05-2020 12:02pm

Cuts about 30 mins off most of my journeys in that direction. My commute, trips to hospital, sports events things like that.

I've have no doubt they will close it at some point though. They did it before when they redid the road. The pace or work was glacial, they'd work on a section for months, but kept the bit they weren't working on closed. I used to cycle past it every day and often there was no activity and the park was very deserted in general. Bit eerie in the Dark.

Effects · 15-05-2020 12:38pm

Maybe they could start with closing Chesterfield Ave at the weekends and see how that goes?

Hurrache · 15-05-2020 12:45pm

They used to do so already been Castleknock and the Aras.

magicbastarder · 15-05-2020 12:49pm

KevRossi wrote: »

There's a petition up to stop all through traffic, seems to be gathering some momentum. I accept Chesterfield Ave is a through road for many people and with poor public transport many people have no option. I'm not sure about closing it for all through traffic, would prefer to see it left as it is the past few weeks, with traffic on all other roads banned.

https://my.uplift.ie/petitions/no-more-traffic-through-phoenix-park

in terms of getting from one end of the park to the other (let's say someone going from blanchardstown to capel street), there are four main options; the southside of the park (i.e. past the side of farmleigh and through chapelizod); chesterfield avenue; blackhorse avenue; or the navan road (and this is ignoring the bus and rail options).
blackhorse avenue is not a suitable road to suggest to commuter traffic, and through chapelizod is problematic too.
what they should consider is limiting private motor traffic through the park, but route buses through the park itself. so if you want to get to the ashtown visitor centre, you can get the bus to very nearby, either from the blanch/castleknock side, or from the city centre side.
and also, it could serve as a bus route for commuters from D15 to get to the city centre, all the way to the IFSC or the point potentially.

they may have to reconfigure the roundabout near the castleknock gates, it might be a bit tight for buses.

beauf · 15-05-2020 12:51pm

They've been closing half of it every summer for a last few years.

So everyone has to drive around all the quieter scenic bits like the Upper Glen road. So people have to drive longer around inside park than straight through it.

I always thought a ring road, inside the park and close the center of it, would make more sense. You'd have less divided parkland.

beauf · 15-05-2020 12:57pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

in terms of getting from one end of the park to the other (let's say someone going from blanchardstown to capel street), there are four main options; the southside of the park (i.e. past the side of farmleigh and through chapelizod); chesterfield avenue; blackhorse avenue; or the navan road (and this is ignoring the bus and rail options).
blackhorse avenue is not a suitable road to suggest to commuter traffic, and through chapelizod is problematic too.
what they should consider is limiting private motor traffic through the park, but route buses through the park itself. so if you want to get to the ashtown visitor centre, you can get the bus to very nearby, either from the blanch/castleknock side, or from the city centre side.
and also, it could serve as a bus route for commuters from D15 to get to the city centre, all the way to the IFSC or the point potentially.

they may have to reconfigure the roundabout near the castleknock gates, it might be a bit tight for buses.

They ran a bus before but it got caught up in all the traffic.

Problem, with stopping traffic and running a bus, is that most people (in D15) aren't within easy walking distance of the park. Also everywhere around the park is heavily congested. So feeder buses to the park won't work.

Electric bikes and scooters. Now they work very well. That's my future I think. I have cycled it a lot, but never managed more than 3 times at week.

Hurrache · 15-05-2020 12:58pm

beauf wrote: »

So people have to drive longer around inside park than straight through it.

Sorta the point though, if you're using the park as a destination you shouldn't be in a hurry to get anywhere in it.

If you're just using it to pass through and you're diverted around the glen then you're better off not using it, and be influenced enough by the diversions just not to bother with the park and take an alternative route. The glen way is the longer diversion compared to the North Road.

I've the park between myself and the city and it's never a route I'd use when travelling in by car anyway, found it the slowest unless I wanted to get around Heuston.

magicbastarder · 15-05-2020 12:59pm

there's a glorious irony in a vehicle whose job it is to alleviate traffic being declared a failure because there was too much traffic for it to work.

i was kinda getting at a '39P' or similar, a variation on an existing full route, which would go via the park, rather than a dedicated feeder bus.

Bicycles, Phoenix Park and traffic

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