Masks

Wibbs · 08-05-2020 02:48PM

Yes: other

BoatMad wrote: »

My friend is such a person

They wear full protective clothing ( a body suit ) a high quality mask , a face shield or goggles and disposable gloves, they have received extensive training in PPE and have a buddy system to ensure its all on correctly

its not the same as slapping a woodworking dust mask on your face

You do get that going to Tesco is not the same as intubating a covid19 patient in a hot ward with viruses everywhere? It doesn't negate the fact that your statement that such a mask is "largely useless against preventing you from getting the inflection" is wrong. If your friend is wearing an FFP2 standard mask it's the same FFP2 standard mask used in woodworking et al.

BoatMad wrote: »

EN149:2001 FFP2 This is the EU standard and its a one time non reusable mask

Did you even read the bit you quoted so confidently? by healthcare professionals against influenza viruses. And before you come back with the "influenza" part, the coronavirus is about the same size. Though that doesn't matter as an FFP2 wouldn't filter down to either viral particle size, but it will filter the droplets they're contained in. Oh and you do realise you can get reusable FFP9/N95 masks?

https://fastlifehacks.com/n95-vs-ffp...ing_us_against

I'm seriously wondering do you even read the links you post??

BoatMad · 08-05-2020 03:11PM

No: other

You do get that going to Tesco is not the same as intubating a covid19 patient in a hot ward with viruses everywhere? It doesn't negate the fact that your statement that such a mask is "largely useless against preventing you from getting the inflection" is wrong. If your friend is wearing an FFP2 standard mask it's the same FFP2 standard mask used in woodworking et al.

I was pointing out that masks help those that are inflected from spreading the disease, they do not ( as used by the general public ) protect you from getting it , thats my point, yet mist people wearing them are of the delusion they are protecting themselves , they are not

Seanergy · 08-05-2020 03:25PM

Yes: valved

BoatMad wrote: »

they do not ( as used by the general public ) protect you from getting it

Your generalising and voicing opinion, you have no scientific evidence to back up that statement regarding COVID-19.

Once you start sterotyping you loose all meaning. Your just trashing the thread.

Wibbs · 08-05-2020 03:26PM

Yes: other

BoatMad wrote: »

I was pointing out that masks help those that are inflected from spreading the disease, they do not ( as used by the general public ) protect you from getting it , thats my point, yet mist people wearing them are of the delusion they are protecting themselves , they are not

We're in the Magical Masks territory again. They magically work as one way valves and only in clinical settings, but magically become "largely useless" everywhere else. Though apparently grand for planing a plank. Maybe try reading the links you posted?

Though I'm glad to see the masks help stop the spread of the disease bit is getting through and it wasn't a while back. Though again it illustrates that for campaigns to work they have to be kept simple, because that's what most get, nuance, even basic logic gets bypassed. I mean you're linking articles, which presumably you've read, to back your point yet they back mine far more. IE:

Whilst surgical style masks are not redundant by any means (discussed more below), they aren’t designed to protect the wearer, whilst respirators are.

The US Center for Disease Control (CDC) cites the N95 respirator standard as part of the advised protective equipment in their Covid-19 FAQ and their SARS guidance (SARS being a similar type of Corona virus). Which suggests that an N95 or better respirator is acceptable

But you read "woodworking dust mask, largely useless".

So we're seeing an oddball mix of the HSE "only useful for the infected and those caring for them and useless everywhere else" with the wider and more recent blanket statement of "they protect others".

Seanergy · 08-05-2020 03:51PM

Yes: valved

Arrival wrote: »

I can't help wondering what's going on in that factory in Limerick that produce masks, are they increasing capacity to help in a similar way? Are they purely fulfilling orders for the health services staff? Seems to be sparse details on it so far

Just in....as of 3 o'clock today.

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Seanergy · 08-05-2020 03:58PM

Yes: valved

Meanwhile, Sands has got his hands on some melt blown and is off possibly to Germany with a case of cash!!! Gotta love this guy, he's busting a gut to get cost price masks to the public, doesn't look like the HSE is backing him......

Maybe they are just 1 horsing it with Irema....? You'd think with the severity of what's going on they would be backing Sands.....

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Professor Moriarty · 08-05-2020 04:14PM

Wibbs wrote: »

You do get that going to Tesco is not the same as intubating a covid19 patient in a hot ward with viruses everywhere? It doesn't negate the fact that your statement that such a mask is "largely useless against preventing you from getting the inflection" is wrong. If your friend is wearing an FFP2 standard mask it's the same FFP2 standard mask used in woodworking et al.

Did you even read the bit you quoted so confidently? by healthcare professionals against influenza viruses. And before you come back with the "influenza" part, the coronavirus is about the same size. Though that doesn't matter as an FFP2 wouldn't filter down to either viral particle size, but it will filter the droplets they're contained in. Oh and you do realise you can get reusable FFP9/N95 masks?

I'm seriously wondering do you even read the links you post??

Thanks in advance. Would you recommend them for self-protection? If so, where would you get them?

Seanergy · 08-05-2020 04:28PM

Yes: valved

Looks like Simon Harris was strongarmed into wearing a mask today, he might have been even schooled a little.

Screen-Shot-2020-05-08-at-16.18.37.png

0lddog · 08-05-2020 04:45PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

...... where would you get them?

Any chance of an answer to this ? ( Pref B & M sellers )

UrbanFret · 08-05-2020 04:53PM

Yes: homemade

BoatMad wrote: »

https://fastlifehacks.com/n95-vs-ffp/#What_are_respirators_protecting_us_against

This is a training video that has been distributed by the fire service. Not much point in going to all this trouble if the mask doesn't protect us. Fast forward to 3.00 mins in
https://youtu.be/eVYu0nvQOf0

Arrival · 08-05-2020 06:12PM

Just wanted to give a bit of thanks to Tipperary animal lover who came through with providing me with masks, all the way from Vietnam as well! I know there were some sceptics but he's genuine, only got home on Wednesday and I got the masks this morning

Glad to have some sorted!

dublin99 · 09-05-2020 08:46AM

I have a few boxes of 20 JSP ffp2 non valve respirator masks sourced from the UK in February for a (now cancelled) trip to Asia.

They are the Olympus 121 model.

I have given some to the local surgery. If they are of use to anyone, I am happy to sell on at cost at 55 euro a box (2.75 euro each mask). I paid for UK delivery then courier to Ireland.

I am in South County Dublin. Please pm me.
Mod if this post is deemed inappropriate please delete.

McGiver · 09-05-2020 08:52AM

No: I don't care enough

pinkyeye wrote:

Coming from a healthcare setting the wearing of masks will only work if it's mandatory for everyone. The standard masks you see that are about 1 euro each only protect another person from you, they do not protect you against others.

Nope. Surgical masks works both ways. Even cloth towel over your gob works both ways. Albeit with 60% efficiency. Which is better than 0.

McGiver · 09-05-2020 08:56AM

No: I don't care enough

railer201 wrote:

It's not surprising, after listening to wishy washy Leo again, on Newstalk, trying to please everyone in the audience and talking about masks in the vaguest manner possible - 'perhaps maybe in instances where social distancing isn't possible'.

Social distancing isn't possible almost anywhere in urban areas. That's why the whole world is using masks FFS!

This guy is a charlatan. He did well on Brexit but he's failed with this. No excuse. Whatsoever.

McGiver · 09-05-2020 08:57AM

No: I don't care enough

BoatMad wrote:

I was pointing out that masks help those that are inflected from spreading the disease, they do not ( as used by the general public ) protect you from getting it , thats my point, yet mist people wearing them are of the delusion they are protecting themselves , they are not

They work both ways. But the outward way is the primary purpose.

McGiver · 09-05-2020 09:02AM

No: I don't care enough

I posted this in another thread but I think it's relevant here too.

Ireland is now at death rate of 0.291 per 1000 (1 in 3415 people).

This is a very poor result given the fundamentals - low population, low density, island on the periphery. Very badly managed unlike the uncritical media telling the people, who all believe "ah sure we're grand".

This is:
- About the same as the Netherlands (smaller area, three times the population, the highest population density in Europe!)
- 2.7 times worse than Portugal (similar area, higher population)
- 3.3 times worse than Denmark (smaller area, similar population)
- 5 times worse than Austria (similar land area, double the population)
- 7.5 times worse than Norway (similar population, much larger area)
- 12 times worse than Czechia (similar land area, double the population)

UK should absolutely not be the bar for Ireland to gauge its results against, it's going to be the worst affected country in Europe, absolutely abysmal.

UK death rate is 0.456 per 1000 but unlike most other countries this does not include care home and home deaths. The estimates done by FT and others using ONS data pointing at death rate of about 0.710 per 1000 which is brutal.

What it means for Ireland?

The government has failed to leverage all fundamental advantages of the country - island, low density, low population. Could have stopped and controlled all incoming traffic easily, check people and quarantine risk groups (see Taiwan - 26M people, only several deaths). Could have tested more, much more (see Korea). Could have mandated face masks (see vast majority of jurisdictions worldwide)- fatal mistake - still nothing on this. Instead chose very strict, long, highly economically damaging lockdown which didn't exactly work - see the other countries results above, their lockdowns were shorter and in some cases people were allowed to go to and from the work provided they wore a mask etc.

My prediction - if they do not up the game with massive testing and targeted quarantine and especially mandate masks for public spaces (all indoors and public transport as a minimum), we will see 20% unemployment, huge government deficit which we will all pay in taxes or austerity, cases and deaths will go up again in autumn and potentially if it happens along with a seasonal flu epidemic then the health care system may get overwhelmed, which would mean even more deaths. And there will be another lockdown, another deficit, another economic damage.

Do no take this lightly. Ireland would likely had 200k cases and 15k deaths if there was no shutdown. But repeated lockdowns are not an option. Only strict mask discipline will help.

Mask up everyone.
I protect your family, you protect mine.
Save lives.
Protect the economy.

McGiver · 09-05-2020 09:59AM

No: I don't care enough

First slightly positive article on masks ever. Because the evidence is so overwhelming and most jurisdictions worldwide mandate, recommend and educate about masks.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0508/1137223-facemasks-world/

But if you notice, it says absolutely nothing about Ireland. No scrutiny of the failed government policy, not even a call to the government to adopt such a policy. This is a lazy pathetic journalism. And we pay this from the taxes...

Anyway the tide is turning, we need to ramp up the pressure now.

Seanergy, Wibbs, now it's the time to broadcast the www.DIYmasks.ie and push it everywhere . Also I think we should join #masks4all as a member, they could provide knowhow and advice.

Wibbs · 09-05-2020 10:14AM

Yes: other

Good point made in that article.

Governments "misunderstood, or haven't appreciated... the nature of evidence needed for an intervention like this," said Mr Cheng, an early proponent of the role of masks in combating the epidemic who insists: "It's simple physics."

"If it doesn't work, why on Earth do we ask people to cover their mouth when they cough? There's no clinical trials on that either but we've never questioned that,"

Still, I can't see the Irish authorities changing on this. They've apparently decided and stated it recently that they'll never make it mandatory anywhere. They even removed all mention of them from the lifting restrictions documentation when it was originally in the plan. They've dug their heels in and they're not for turning it seems. Given their incompetence regarding border control, health checks, quarantine, testing, contact tracing, even the lockdown such as it was, I'm not shocked.

I'm even less shocked as the public seem to think they're doing a grand job. Then again people just want this to be over and will largely ignore stuff or err on the side of "be grand" hoping it will be over soon. I mean look at the UK, which is now IIRC the worst hit in Europe and so many British people still think their government are doing OK. Masks may actually be seen as psychologically admitting it isn't over in an all too obvious and physical way and people don't want to hear or see that. This could in part be why they're so strongly resisting it?

Away With The Fairies · 09-05-2020 10:24AM

Yes: valved

I think they really want herd immunity. They only shut things to make it look like they were doing something. Invite all the travellers in and spread infection with no quarantine.

And our prime minister a doctor.

owlbethere · 09-05-2020 10:44AM

McGiver wrote: »

Social distancing isn't possible almost anywhere in urban areas. That's why the whole world is using masks FFS!

This guy is a charlatan. He did well on Brexit but he's failed with this. No excuse. Whatsoever.

He has showed poor leadership throughout this, for sure. His speeches are fantastic and that's about it.

The fcuking eejits in government will wait for the population to make a move on wearing masks in public/indoor environments and when they see an increase in the population doing it, then they will step up and ask the rest of the population to do so.

Fcuking pr1cks, the lot of them. Relying on them to keep the population safe. Good grief. Does Leo have to be reminded about the election results from February? He's not wanted in government by a sizable portion of the population and rightly so.

ChelseaRentBoy · 09-05-2020 10:50AM

Yes: surgical

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

I think they really want herd immunity. They only shut things to make it look like they were doing something. Invite all the travellers in and spread infection with no quarantine.

And our prime minister a doctor.

I'm beginning to think that must be it. There is no other logical reason for their approach.

Professor Moriarty · 09-05-2020 10:53AM

owlbethere wrote: »

He has showed poor leadership throughout this, for sure. His speeches are fantastic and that's about it.

The fcuking eejits in government will wait for the population to make a move on wearing masks in public/indoor environments and when they see an increase in the population doing it, then they will step up and ask the rest of the population to do so.

Fcuking pr1cks, the lot of them. Relying on them to keep the population safe. Good grief. Does Leo have to be reminded about the election results from February? He's not wanted in government by a sizable portion of the population and rightly so.

The alternatives would have been infinitely worse.

khalessi · 09-05-2020 10:53AM

Yes: surgical

Leo made a comment on the Late Late show about the possibility of face coverings when asked about masks but was non commital, apprently they are looking into it or something, I reckon they are trying to save face over the whole mask debacle. They should have been honest and said look there is a shortage please make your own as we need them for Health workers etc.

owlbethere · 09-05-2020 10:55AM

ChelseaRentBoy wrote: »

I'm beginning to think that must be it. There is no other logical reason for their approach.

God, if this was the 80s, and we were starting to see HIV and AIDS, a lot of governments will have us riding bare back without condoms and sticking needles into ourselves to aim for herd immunity.

Wibbs · 09-05-2020 10:59AM

Yes: other

I'm just grateful, if that's the right word, that this dose isn't particularly fatal in the vast majority. If this were a novel outbreak of something like smallpox that killed a third or more of men women and children of all ages(and left many who survived with reduced longevity) we would have been utterly and completely screwed.

owlbethere · 09-05-2020 10:59AM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

The alternatives would have been infinitely worse.

Some of the alternatives would have been worse. Michael Martin was doing a radio interview in February, and he wanted incoming travel restricted. We would be doing so much more better. MM was never afraid to take decisions for the better good.

Professor Moriarty · 09-05-2020 11:22AM

owlbethere wrote: »

Some of the alternatives would have been worse. Michael Martin was doing a radio interview in February, and he wanted incoming travel restricted. We would be doing so much more better. MM was never afraid to take decisions for the better good.

Disagree. Having a qualified doctor as leader of the country was a major bonus.

owlbethere · 09-05-2020 12:02PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Disagree. Having a qualified doctor as leader of the country was a major bonus.

What good are his doctor qualifications when he hasn't doctored in years except for his recent step up, more than likely done for a photo opportunity than out from a real desire to help people.

That man allowed the spread of this disease to take off in the country when he was inviting potential infected cases into our country without quarantine measures. Italians having fun in Dublin comes to mind. Leaving it to a week before the St Patricks day parades to cancel them to ensure travellers from abroad with plans to come here would be snookered and travel anyways and spend their money. RTE happened to interview someone walking around a quite Dublin street, he was a German tourist here.

Having a taosieach with a doctor background should have stood to us but it hasn't. Even now on the issue of masks, he's wishy washy and they are considering them but only if social distancing can't be maintained. That really isn't good enough.

khalessi · 09-05-2020 12:12PM

Yes: surgical

owlbethere wrote: »

What good are his doctor qualifications when he hasn't doctored in years except for his recent step up, more than likely done for a photo opportunity than out from a real desire to help people.

That man allowed the spread of this disease to take off in the country when he was inviting potential infected cases into our country without quarantine measures. Italians having fun in Dublin comes to mind. Leaving it to a week before the St Patricks day parades to cancel them to ensure travellers from abroad with plans to come here would be snookered and travel anyways and spend their money. RTE happened to interview someone walking around a quite Dublin street, he was a German tourist here.

Having a taosieach with a doctor background should have stood to us but it hasn't. Even now on the issue of masks, he's wishy washy and they are considering them but only if social distancing can't be maintained. That really isn't good enough.

Seriously!!! I havent nursed in years but still keep myself up to date, as he more than likely has, and I am out of the game longer than him. It stand to him as he understands immediately what is being discussed without needing med jargon changed, it help for decision making etc especially in a pandemic. He has made mistakes but has also made good decisions too.

ChelseaRentBoy · 09-05-2020 12:16PM

Yes: surgical

Outside Lidl waiting in the weekly shop queue. 1 in 10 tops with masks. Pure insanity.

Masks

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