Covid19 Part XVII-24,841 in ROI (1,639 deaths) 4,679 in NI (518 deaths)(28/05)Read OP

eagle eye · 08-05-2020 02:30PM

tobefrank321 wrote:

But that is impossible while you have open borders. And a farcical optional only quarantine system for travellers here.

It's not impossible, quarantine all incomers, facemasks, social distancing and we can get to zero cases.

tobefrank321 · 08-05-2020 02:33PM

eagle eye wrote: »

It's not impossible, quarantine all incomers, facemasks, social distancing and we can get to zero cases.

Well it is impossible when you have indecisive Leo in charge.

The government are still thinking about imposing mandatory quarantine. 3 months at least after the first cases came here from abroad.

sonofenoch · 08-05-2020 02:34PM

A 6 week old baby among the dead in the UK today........that's one particularly hard to take

eagle eye · 08-05-2020 02:34PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote:

Nobody has a problem, except Trump and his mindless supporters.
There are 77,000 confirmed deaths so far in the US.
The Trump administration will have to answer for the handling of the pandemic.

And it follows from that comment that Varadkar and his administration have to answer for it here and letting it explode by allowing people to Cheltenham and other sporting events outside the country and allowing people back off holidays saying they are fine without testing.
And the leaders of every country with a major outbreak of this thing.
Lots of leaders need sacking over this.

08-05-2020 02:34PM

Stheno wrote: »

Make pep ppl le returning pay for it? Other countries do

They actually don’t. . Most have what we have (though we can’t enforce it), which is to monitor the self isolation of arrivals. Of developed countries it is only NZ that quarantine arrivals in a facility. Not even Australia do (despite popular belief), unless you can’t prove that you are able to self isolate. Many (though not all) of our EU partners limit arrivals to citizens, residents and essential workers, but none physically detain them in quarantine.

What we need to do (and which Leo alluded to this morning) is to ensure enforcement and checking by the Gardai of what we we have.

Here are all the arrivals rules around the world.

https://www.iatatravelcentre.com/international-travel-document-news/1580226297.htm

hmmm · 08-05-2020 02:38PM

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Well it is impossible when you have indecisive Leo in charge.

The government are still thinking about imposing mandatory quarantine. 3 months at least after the first cases came here from abroad.

The government are taking their advice from NPHET. Other than SF I'd expect any government to do the same.

Stheno · 08-05-2020 02:42PM

Irish Times reporting that 58% of Roma and 43% of travellers who have been tested, test positive compared to 4% in the wider populations

Boggles · 08-05-2020 02:44PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Seems number in the US can be taken with a pinch of salt,

Reports the hospitals have been fudging the number because they get about around 13 grand from the government per covid case and 35 grand per ventilated patient

Number's frequenting hospitals is down 50% in some area's as people stay away because of the virus and in some doctors have be furloughed due to hospitals not making the money they where pre covid,

So you can see the problem , You can let a doctors go or ticking the box for covid and stick someone on a ventilator for 10 minutes to get over 40 grand that helps pay there wages for the year ,

Link?

Miike · 08-05-2020 02:45PM

Stheno wrote: »

Irish Times reporting that 58% of Roma and 43% of travellers who have been tested, test positive compared to 4% in the wider populations

Can you link this? Not doubting you, just cant find it :pac:

El Weirdo · 08-05-2020 02:45PM

eagle eye wrote: »

And it follows from that comment that Varadkar and his administration have to answer for it here and letting it explode by allowing people to Cheltenham and other sporting events outside the country and allowing people back off holidays saying they are fine without testing.
And the leaders of every country with a major outbreak of this thing.
Lots of leaders need sacking over this.

Again with the Cheltenham stuff.

How was the government supposed to stop people from travelling to Cheltenham?

Also, exactly how many clusters can be traced to people returning from Cheltenham?

US2 · 08-05-2020 02:45PM

eagle eye wrote: »

It's the government's job to ensure compliance.

Its the government's job to insure there is enough beds for the coffin Dodgers then let us get back to work. The whole point of lockdown is because ICU will be overwhelmed. The virus isnt going anywhere lockdown or not

eagle eye · 08-05-2020 02:48PM

El Weirdo wrote:

Again with the Cheltenham stuff.
How was the government supposed to stop people from travelling to Cheltenham?

Ban all travel abroad.

El Weirdo wrote:

Also, exactly how many clusters can be traced to people returning from Cheltenham?

I don't know I'm only aware of two and both from people close to me. I was close to one of them but luckily had no close contact with any of the parties involved.

ChelseaRentBoy · 08-05-2020 02:51PM

Stheno wrote: »

Irish Times reporting that 58% of Roma and 43% of travellers who have been tested, test positive compared to 4% in the wider populations

Wow, that's pretty incredible tbh.

Stheno · 08-05-2020 02:51PM

Miike wrote: »

Can you link this? Not doubting you, just cant find it :pac:

Here you go

Its halfway down this article about a new assessment hub for the vulnerable being opened in the Mater

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/this-virus-hasn-t-gone-away-warning-from-harris-amid-continued-concern-over-nursing-homes-1.4248422?mode=amp

Quoted for those who may not be able to access it due to paywall

Marginalised groups and other “challenging” sectors are to become a new frontline of the battle against Covid-19.

While the overall daily number of new cases reported on Thursday fell to its lowest level in over six weeks, a greater focus is planned on areas where the virus continues to circulate at significant levels. Earlier today Mr Harris opened a new Covid-19 assessment hub at the Mater Hospital in Dublin to work specifically with marginalised groups in the inner city.

Some 58 per cent of Roma who have undergone testing, and 43 per cent of Travellers, have had a positive result, according to official figures. The overall positivity rate for all people tested has fallen to under 4 per cent.

New Home · 08-05-2020 02:52PM

polesheep wrote: »

I don't understand your reply. I'm suggesting that we need focus on finding solutions that allow people (all people) to get on with their lives in the best possible way. Are you suggesting that things cannot ease for anyone unless they ease for everyone?

Ease slightly, yes - go back to normal, definitely not. Even young and healthy people's behaviour has an effect on everybody else.

tobefrank321 wrote: »

There are a number of illnesses that can kill a number of people every year, including the common flu virus, AIDS, etc.

tobefrank321 wrote: »

that is impossible while you have open borders.

Re: the first bit, all of those are treatable/containable, within reason.
Re: the second bit, I completely agree - if you're not closing the borders, at least enforce a quarantine.

To me, not ONE single measure is right way to approach this: ALL measures should be implemented simultaneously, that would be the most effective way to contain the virus and limit the numbers of people affected.

Put it this way: to me it's like looking at a recipe on the internet. Let's say it has 10 ingredients. Invariably you'll find comments from people who left out 3 or 4 of the ingredients, substituted the others and then complain about the fact that the recipe didn't work and whatever it was they cooked turned out crap. This is no different.

millb · 08-05-2020 02:54PM

The right hand side of the table with /M cases is interesting. Belgium having a rough time. Still high on the curve..

Miike · 08-05-2020 02:54PM

Stheno wrote: »

Here you go

Its halfway down this article about a new assessment hub for the vulnerable being opened in the Mater

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/this-virus-hasn-t-gone-away-warning-from-harris-amid-continued-concern-over-nursing-homes-1.4248422?mode=amp

Wonder what the Traveller Health Unit are doing about this? They are the bona fide experts in Traveller Health.

tobefrank321 · 08-05-2020 02:58PM

hmmm wrote: »

The government are taking their advice from NPHET. Other than SF I'd expect any government to do the same.

So NPHET are advising against mandatory quarantining of travellers?

Stheno · 08-05-2020 02:58PM

Miike wrote: »

Wonder what the Traveller Health Unit are doing about this? They are the bona fide experts in Traveller Health.

No idea, but it's a shocking statistic, positive rates between 11 and 16/17 times higher for the two populations compared to overall

Now I know lifestyle/economic/educational factors probably play into it, but it's still shocking

Kermit.de.frog · 08-05-2020 02:58PM

https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1258737907520724992

It's also up from "it's 1 guy coming from China" back in February.

El Weirdo · 08-05-2020 02:59PM

eagle eye wrote: »

Ban all travel abroad.

Ban all travel abroad. Simple.

eagle eye wrote: »

I don't know I'm only aware of two and both from people close to me. I was close to one of them but luckily had no close contact with any of the parties involved.

"Letting it explode".

Miike · 08-05-2020 03:00PM

Stheno wrote: »

No idea, but it's a shocking statistic, positive rates between 11 and 16/17 times higher for the two populations compared to overall

Now I know lifestyle/economic/educational factors probably play into it, but it's still shocking

This is the realm of the THU. They tailor interventions to their needs. Pavee point issued a statement in early April that many don't have running water and can't wash hands etc. I would expect they are provided with alcohol based hand rub as a minimum. That's a shocking statistic!

mandrake04 · 08-05-2020 03:12PM

Deleted User wrote: »

They actually don’t. . Most have what we have (though we can’t enforce it), which is to monitor the self isolation of arrivals. Of developed countries it is only NZ that quarantine arrivals in a facility. Not even Australia do (despite popular belief),

Ha that's just rubbish you have made that up, sure anyone with half a brain knows Australia definitely have managed isolation. Look at their numbers!!

All passengers who arrive in Australia after midnight on Saturday will go into mandatory quarantine in hotels for a fortnight, Prime Minister Scott Morrison has announced.

Concerns have been raised about people not adhering to self-isolation requirements, particularly after getting off cruise ships.

Defence Force personnel will be brought in to support state and territory police in enforcing the mandatory quarantine and the self-isolation rules that apply to people who are already in Australia or who arrive before the Saturday midnight deadline.

Mr Morrison said two-thirds of the nation's confirmed cases of coronavirus had come from people travelling from overseas.

"States and territories will be quarantining all arrivals through our airports in hotels and other accommodation facilities for the two weeks of their mandatory self-isolation before they are able to return to their home," he said.

"If their home is in South Australia, or in Perth, or in Tasmania and they have arrived in Melbourne, they will be quarantining in Melbourne."

The forced quarantine rule was agreed to at National Cabinet, a meeting of the Prime Minister, premiers and chief ministers, on Friday morning.

"We will not take these decisions lightly, we will not take them for a matter of convenience," the Prime Minister said after the meeting.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-27/forced-coronavirus-quarantine-for-people-returning-to-australia/12095898

From midnight, March 28, all Australian travelers returning from overseas have been forced into two-week quarantine–in a luxury hotel.

Following the country’s decision to close its borders to foreign tourists last month, tough new coronavirus measures mean Australians coming from abroad can no longer live out their mandatory 14-day self-isolation in the comfort of their own homes.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tamarat...el-quarantine/

More than 5,000 Australians are undergoing mandatory quarantine in hotel rooms and other accommodation around the country.

State and territory leaders agreed to forcibly isolate returning overseas travellers in hotels for 14 days from midnight on Saturday.

The tough measure was adopted by the National Cabinet after health authorities warned people who had been overseas accounted for about two thirds of Australia's known coronavirus cases.

Since the controversial measure came into effect, the Department of Home Affairs has confirmed more than 5,500 people have returned to Australia.

The largest number of people is being held in New South Wales, with more than 3,140 travellers arriving at Sydney International Airport since Sunday, according to figures as of 11:00am on Wednesday.

The measure has received mixed responses, with some cooped-up travellers expressing frustrations about not being able to get fresh air or outdoor exercise.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-01/coronavirus-thousands-australians-quarantined-hotel-rooms-travel/12111970

An Australian returning from overseas who is now being forced to isolate in an international hotel has hit back at claims they are grumbling at five-star accommodation, branding their critics as “cruel”.

Hotel guests that news.com.au has spoken to have said they understand they need to be in isolation, and it could be worse elsewhere. But they have said the government is making the enforced lock up worse with late or non-existent deliveries of vital medicines, the lack of any mental health support or fresh air or even anyone to ask questions of.

“I get the reasons why we are here, but we feel not just physically isolated but abandoned,” said one guest.

Others have said the Ruby Princess fiasco, where 162 passengers who were let off the ship later tested positive for coronavirus, had led the authorities to crackdown harder than necessary on subsequent arrivals.

From Saturday, all Australians returning from overseas have been forced to self-isolate in hotels for 14 days, rather than back at home.

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/coronavirus-australia-australians-isolated-in-hotels-hit-back-at-critics-say-theyve-been-abandoned/news-story/bf53d94d73d060f57339743ad3fbe406

This is what Ireland needs to do to plug the gaps.

An Ciarraioch · 08-05-2020 03:13PM

Sweden with 135 deaths so far today, compared to 8 for Denmark and 5 for Finland, so little evidence that their approach is stemming the spread of the virus.

08-05-2020 03:17PM

mandrake04 wrote: »

Ha that's just rubbish you have made that up, sure anyone with half a brain knows Australia definitely have managed isolation. Look at their numbers!!

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-27/forced-coronavirus-quarantine-for-people-returning-to-australia/12095898

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tamarat...el-quarantine/

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-01/coronavirus-thousands-australians-quarantined-hotel-rooms-travel/12111970

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/coronavirus-australia-australians-isolated-in-hotels-hit-back-at-critics-say-theyve-been-abandoned/news-story/bf53d94d73d060f57339743ad3fbe406

This is what Ireland needs to do to plug the gaps.

Okay, fair enough, though I think you overdid the response. Can you find similar evidence from a county slightly closer to home and not so isolated. Say, for example, a European country? Because I don’t see Ireland ever going it alone in the northern hemisphere re. quarantine

Over to you. If you can find anything I will stand corrected (and, by the way, I have no issue with banning non citizens as a general rule)

An Ciarraioch · 08-05-2020 03:23PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Okay, fair enough, though I think you overdid the response. Can you find similar evidence from a county slightly closer to home and not so isolated. Say, for example, a European country? Because I don’t see Ireland ever going it alone in the northern hemisphere re. quarantine

Over to you. If you can find anything I will stand corrected (and, by the way, I have no issue with banning non citizens as a general rule)

Slovakia implemented a strict 14-day quarantine:

https://www.mzv.sk/web/en/covid-19

Boggles · 08-05-2020 03:26PM

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Sweden with 135 deaths so far today, compared to 8 for Denmark and 5 for Finland, so little evidence that their approach is stemming the spread of the virus.

Sweden is....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plZRe1kPWZw

Tony EH · 08-05-2020 03:26PM

US2 wrote: »

It should be up to the individual people and families if they want to hide away. Those who are fit and not scared should be left get on with life

Amazing to think that months into this pandemic that someone could post something like this. :rolleyes:

The "fit" can carry the virus and pass it onto others who might be more susceptible to its worst effects.

Away With The Fairies · 08-05-2020 03:26PM

tobefrank321 wrote: »

So NPHET are advising against mandatory quarantining of travellers?

They are against alot of things

growleaves · 08-05-2020 03:28PM

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Sweden with 135 deaths so far today, compared to 8 for Denmark and 5 for Finland, so little evidence that their approach is stemming the spread of the virus.

Sweden is within the European average.

If you think Denmark and Finland have a common factor (cultural, geographical, environmental?) with Sweden and Norway that is more significant than the lockdown itself please let us know what that is.

Covid19 Part XVII-24,841 in ROI (1,639 deaths) 4,679 in NI (518 deaths)(28/05)Read OP

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