Covid19 Part XVII-24,841 in ROI (1,639 deaths) 4,679 in NI (518 deaths)(28/05)Read OP

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

We must have watched different press conferences because he did answer that very thing definitively..

I.E. that a negative testing patient would never be put in a covid ward.


Great. Glad he was definitive as it is important.

Time will tell the story as to whether or not the hospital put Sally in a Covid ward when she had tested negative. I do not know the truth of that.

I have just come across this article in todays Irish Times and the phrase used by Dr H was apparently "as much as can reasonably happen." That is not the same as never.

Another thing is that private names have been used before in public places when challenging the CMO who has been in his position since 2008. Savita Halappanavar . Vicky Phelan. Emma Mhic Mathuna. It appears Sally's parents want her name in the public sphere. I can understand why. As to whether they have misunderstood what happened or not , I do not know.

I am not saying the person questioning is not a loon or was not inappropriate. I have honestly never heard of her before and my level of interest in them in so low that I have not even googled them since. I have zero affiliation with them.

What I experienced for what little that is worth was that in the small bits of the briefing that I watched I thought strongly above all the noise, all the drama - what happened here to that young girl Sally? This is really quite important. I felt perplexed.

I admit I did not listen to it all, shortly after the mic was switched off I switched off. Up to then I thought the CMO was not being as clear and uniquivocal as he could be in the more general principle at hand. I completely understood he could not address Sally's case.

And even though I do not mind holding a minority opinion per se, I do think some of the contemptuous dismissal of this unusual event is hasty. What happened to Sally is important. I am very glad it was raised to public consciousness even if in the context of high and inappropriate drama.


"As much as is reasonably possible" is legalese, it is the language used to avoid legal sanction. It remains to be seen what truly happened in Sally's case.


This is the IRISH TIMES article frim 7 hours ago -


"The parents of a 17- year-old Leaving Certificate student have raised questions over the circumstances surrounding her death at Mayo University Hospital on April 24th.

Abdullah and Rula Maaz say their daughter Sally, who was born with a congenital heart defect, was admitted to the hospital’s Covid-19 ward 10 days before she died.

The couple, part of the extensive Syrian community in Ballyhaunis, say she was admitted to the Covid-19 ward although, they claim, she had tested negative for coronavirus. However, according to Ibrahim Rahmani, Sally’s first cousin, she tested positive before she died.

The parents and wider family were interviewed by The Connaught Telegraph at the weekend, and said they have “serious concerns” over Sally’s treatment during the five days (April 14th-April 19th) when they could not visit her.

They described Sally, a student at Ballyhaunis Community School, as “a fighter” and “strong” who had suffered with medical complications all her life. Her parents brought her to the emergency department on April 14th after she developed severe back pain and respiratory problems .

Ibrahim Rahmani told the newspaper:“Sally had tested negative. She tested positive just four days before she died.”

The family say they have a number of questions they want answered in respect of the treatment she received.

They stressed they “appreciate the hard work of doctors and nurses and the pressure they are under but, at the same time, they have concerns about Sally’s care”.

The Maaz family say they want Sally’s story publicised as they are “very concerned” about people being admitted to hospital in the present Covid situation.

Asked about the case at the National Public Health Emergency Team (NPHET) briefing on Wednesday , Chief Medical Officer Dr Tony Holohan said he could not comment on individual cases.

However, in a general sense, he said that policy “is clearly to limit the spread of this infection by separating, as much as can reasonably happen, patients who are known to have Covid from patients who may not have Covid”.


Mayo University Hospital and the HSE Saolta Hospital Group were contacted by The Connaught Telegraph on the issues raised by the Maaz family but no statement had been forthcoming at the time of the paper going to press."

Nonoperational wrote: »

Haven’t been on this thread in a while, but thought I’d give my opinion on yesterdays events.

As regards complications shuch as stroke, Kawasaki disease etc, we really haven’t noted any signal here yet. What we are seeing is a signal for pericarditis and possibly myocarditis. The incidence of stroke etc would be so small in Ireland if compared to the US that it will still be incredibly rare.

Regarding people testing negative put in “covid” wards. This is being treated by some people as absolute when the reality is different.

The general procedure in my hospital is as follows:

Patient comes in and a clinical decision is made based on symptoms if the patient goes to the “covid ed” or the “normal ed”. We don’t have test results at this stage. They usually take 24 hours.

If the patient goes to “covid ed” they are still kept away from other patients. PPE is used both for them and for all staff. If they go to a ward with Covid patients then they are kept alone, they wear masks, staff wear full PPE. It’s not like they are put into close proximity with positive patients. They then go to a query ward where there are a mix of patients. There will be many many patients who test negative and are then moved to a non covid ward.

The issue is that the covid test only picks up what the swab contacts with. If you have a high clinical index of suspicion then a patient can and most likely will have covid even after swabbing negative. We then more to tests like CT to see if we can get a further insight.

The issue in the case mentioned appears to be where they went. If they went to a single room then being in a covid area or not should not make a significant difference. It is entirely possible and indeed in my opinion likely that, at the moment, a person could have covid after 2 negative tests if the symptoms fit. We had a number of cases where this was the case. One we confirmed by CT, one by bronchial washing. Multiple negative swabs but clinically consistent with covid.

I would say that at risk patients should always be isolated if at all possible ideally in single rooms with appropriate air systems. I’m not sure of the situation in Mayo.

Thank you.
I understood one could have covid and still test negative.
I think if Sally was in a single room in the "covid" ed it is perfectly fine. It will hopefully be clarified soon what happened to Sally.