Relaxation of restrictions Part II

06-05-2020 11:49AM

partyguinness wrote: »

I don't really care whether you believe me or not and yes I am fine with that. **** happens.

Of course everything must be done to keep it down but there is a point where enough is enough now.

Thousands of people die from car crashes every years. Hell hundreds if not thousands of people will die today in a car crash but I am still going to drive home later. I may get killed. **** happens.

As Bill Clinton said: "It's the economy, stupid."

Never a truer word spoken.

Airbags, crumple zones and seatbelts save lives, but make my car more expensive, and the vast majority of people who wont have a crash could put the money saved on these extravagances to a more productive use elsewhere. So lets do away with all these safety features that only benefit the careless and dangerous drivers

lawrencesummers · 06-05-2020 11:50AM

growleaves wrote: »

Shutting down the economy is at least partly an economic problem!

The economy hasn’t shut down.

gozunda · 06-05-2020 11:52AM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

It seems like most countries (US, Germany, Sweden, Cyprus) virologists are coming out and saying that
A) its not as deadly of a disease as thought
it should be dealt with through herd immunity
C) a lot of people have already had it

To poster who said i am not positive - boom there is a lot to be positive about this in terms of our "fight with the virus" as Simon Harris would put it.

Less positive news on the economic front, unfortunately.

"US, Germany, Sweden, Cyprus" are not "most" countries. And until you provide links showing that the each of those four countries are peddling various quacks solution of "herd immunity" then such statements are complete and utter rubbish.

lawrencesummers · 06-05-2020 11:52AM

Skyfloater wrote: »

This happened during the Blue Flu and nothing happened. Most people are sensible, believe it or not.

What rules were removed?

I think what you mean is the enforcement of the rules was removed, not the rules themselves, and we know that most people abide by the rules - of the road or the lockdown, but the legislation in place is to counteract the small minority that break both, often to the detriment of the people that don’t.

road_high · 06-05-2020 11:52AM

lawrencesummers wrote: »

The economy hasn’t shut down.

With over a million on social welfare- yes it has, at least partially. And there's a huge cost to that

partyguinness · 06-05-2020 11:53AM

lawrencesummers wrote: »

That’s the problem with people who think they understand economics, they think everything is and economic problem.

Everything is an economic problem. The response to C19 and the economy are inextricably linked whether you like it or not. It's like the weather- you can't get away from it.

Sure it would be nice to live in a world where we didn't have to work to survive, pay bills or the mortgage but reality is a bitch.

Now I may wrong and I hate to put words in you mouth but what I think you meant to say is that "Economics is not the most important thing in life."

easypazz · 06-05-2020 11:54AM

gozunda wrote: »

Again "Stockholm" on which you repeatedly hang your hat is not a country. And believing in the magic tooth fairy or "herd immunity" is not the same as it actually bring a reality ot it coming to pass

I don't hang my hat on anything.

I understand Stockholm is not a country.

I also understand that with a high density metro area population of 2.3million people it is likely to spread faster there than rural Sweden

I understand 2.3million people is a fine sample size to test "herd immunity" theory.

Why are you so fixated on Stockholm not being a country, does it make any difference?

lawrencesummers · 06-05-2020 11:55AM

road_high wrote: »

With over a million on social welfare- yes it has, at least partially. And there's a huge cost to that

That could be a record, contradicting yourself in so few words.

MarkY91 · 06-05-2020 11:55AM

lawrencesummers wrote: »

They are in a park.

Wonderful observation right there. Go to any park in Ireland and you'll see that social distancing does not exist.

tobefrank321 · 06-05-2020 11:56AM

It seems there have been some mutations in sars cov 2 which could make a vaccine harder.

https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/coronavirus/a-mutant-coronavirus-has-emerged-even-more-contagious-than-the-original-study-says/ar-BB13FgoS?ocid=spartanntp

Its possible scientists are basing the current vaccine approach on an older less contagious strain.

Multiple strains could make a vaccine infinitely more difficult.

It shows that locking down until a vaccine could be a very questionable approach given that an effective all encompassing vaccine may be very difficult.

Sweet.Science · 06-05-2020 11:57AM

Re the roadmap

It says you can visit households in June. Does this mean grandparents can hold their grandchildren?

gozunda · 06-05-2020 11:57AM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Love this link!!!

first thing said "It's hard to predict things in a pandemic."

goes on to predict herd immunity wont work. Boy science profession is quickly becoming a laughing stock.

PS amount of adds on that page, sciencealtert clearly is looking for page visitors to make money off adds. This isnt a serious website is it?

Ah even more extremely stupid comments eh? . No not adds :eek: quick ditch the internet lol!!!

If you dont like that link theres plenty of others out there saying the exact same thing. Yes things may be difficult to determine during a pandemic. Herd immunity isn't one of them. It has been shown to be complete and utter bolloxology. But hey if you want to deny that be my guest

Kermit.de.frog · 06-05-2020 12:00PM

road_high wrote: »

With over a million on social welfare- yes it has, at least partially. And there's a huge cost to that

Calm down.

A lot of those will return to work through the summer.

What's crucial is avoiding another lock down and all the damage that entails.

Suppression, suppression, suppression is what's needed. :cool:

easypazz · 06-05-2020 12:00PM

gozunda wrote: »

Ah even more extremely stupid comments eh? . No not adds :eek: quick ditch the internet lol!!!

If you dont like that link theres plenty of others out there saying the exact same thing. Yes things may be difficult to determine during a pandemic. Herd immunity isn't one of them. It has been shown to be complete and utter bolloxology. But hey if you want to deny that be my guest

Except it hasn't. You constantly saying otherwise won't make it true.

Mad_maxx · 06-05-2020 12:00PM

Penfailed wrote: »

Don't you think that there may be a correlation due to the fact that we've had a lockdown? Would they be less rare if we had carried on as normal? There's no way to tell though.

The lock down was about not zoning in on a particular age demographic, we were all forced to enter the bunker for political reasons

Doctors always have an " i know best" attitude and we're itching at the prospect of such power and extra deference, holohan and the guy from the North are now media stars, Dr John crown has always loved his media profile

lawrencesummers · 06-05-2020 12:00PM

partyguinness wrote: »

Everything is an economic problem. The response to C19 and the economy are inextricably linked whether you like it or not. It's like the weather- you can't get away from it.

Sure it would be nice to live in a world where we didn't have to work to survive, pay bills or the mortgage but reality is a bitch.

Now I may wrong and I hate to put words in you mouth but what I think you meant to say is that "Economics is not the most important thing in life."

No, I mean everything isn’t an economic problem, No matter how many ivory tower grandiose types try and make out that it is, this is a health problem, a public health problem where people are dying because of a virus that spread from human to human. A lot of people look past that to see other problems.

Sure it has economic ramifications, the same way it has ramifications for a lot of other things like mental health, public services, leisure, travel etc etc but it’s not an economic issue. The economy is a symptom of the disease, not the disease.

Ginger n Lemon · 06-05-2020 12:01PM

gozunda wrote: »

"US, Germany, Sweden, Cyprus" are not "most" countries. And until you provide links showing that the each of those four countries are peddling various quacks solution of "herd immunity" then such statements are complete and utter rubbish.

Wait you do realize herd immunity is when a certain % of population gets infected and recovers?

Herd immunity is ongoing all over the planet. Its not a thing you chose to do or not to do. It is not a strategy, it is life.

So virologists doing anti body tests in New york, california, Germany have found that over 15% of population in their area (mind you New york would equate to 1.5 million people) have already had covid19 and recovered.

Btw, this is good news, you dont seem to be happy? Talk about being pessimistic.

Kermit.de.frog · 06-05-2020 12:01PM

gozunda wrote: »

Ah even more extremely stupid comments eh? . No not adds :eek: quick ditch the internet lol!!!

If you dont like that link theres plenty of others out there saying the exact same thing. Yes things may be difficult to determine during a pandemic. Herd immunity isn't one of them. It has been shown to be complete and utter bolloxology. But hey if you want to deny that be my guest

Reminds me of your typical Trump voter.

"We don't do experts anymore, we do feelings" :pac:

lawrencesummers · 06-05-2020 12:01PM

MarkY91 wrote: »

Wonderful observation right there. Go to any park in Ireland and you'll see that social distancing does not exist.

I’m just back from my local park.
two of us in there.
Me and my daughter.

That’s your argument torpedoed.

Ginger n Lemon · 06-05-2020 12:03PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Calm down.

A lot of those will return to work through the summer.

What's crucial is avoiding another lock down and all the damage that entails.

Suppression, suppression, suppression is what's needed. :cool:

Well if you say a lot of those will return to work, like what, 501 000 people? Majority?

NEWS JUST IN

Hairdressers want to re open early. They must not treat covid19 as a deadly disease.

Save the over 70s brigade, go get them

06-05-2020 12:05PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Suppression, suppression, suppression is what's needed. :cool:

I am actually starting to think that this is intentionally becoming a parody account now. I feel a block coming in

easypazz · 06-05-2020 12:06PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Wait you do realize herd immunity is when a certain % of population gets infected and recovers?

Herd immunity is ongoing all over the planet. Its not a thing you chose to do or not to do. It is not a strategy, it is life.

So virologists doing anti body tests in New york, california, Germany have found that over 15% of population in their area (mind you New york would equate to 1.5 million people) have already had covid19 and recovered.

Btw, this is good news, you dont seem to be happy? Talk about being pessimistic.

He thinks half of deaths in Ireland due to COVID are people under 70.

He gets hung up on Stockholm because its not a country.

He won't understand a lot of what you are saying.

Cork Boy 53 · 06-05-2020 12:07PM

Mad_maxx wrote: »

The lock down was about not zoning in on a particular age demographic, we were all forced to enter the bunker for political reasons

Doctors always have an " i know best" attitude and we're itching at the prospect of such power and extra deference, holohan and the guy from the North are now media stars, Dr John crown has always loved his media profile

After reading that post I now understand why you chose your username. Utter bollocks.:rolleyes:

06-05-2020 12:07PM

facehugger99 wrote: »

The last recession demonstrated that protecting cushy public-service pay and pensions will be the No. 1 priority.

Hundreds of thousands of job losses in the private sector will be sacrificed before a single public servant suffers a pay cut, much less a redundancy.

There are choices - we could maintain capital spending to generate employment in the construction industry for example but you'd probably have to tell the Guards, Teachers and Civil Servants they need to take a pay cut.

No prizes for guessing what our spinless politicians will choose to do when the time comes.

You can do it all - maintain capital spending, support private sector employment and maintain public sector employment - one of the big macro economic impacts of this will more than likely be a shift in global monetary policy to the MMT or similar model, which essentially says, so long as you match your productive capacity, you can print your way back to growth. Given the deflationary impacts of Covid 19 on the global economy coupled with the oil price deflation, there is essentially no inflationary risk in doing this, and the tax system will take care of itself in the long run. The ECB have signalled they are thinking along those lines with the 750bn liquidity at negative interest rates

Ginger n Lemon · 06-05-2020 12:09PM

easypazz wrote: »

He thinks half of deaths in Ireland due to COVID are people under 70.

He gets hung up on Stockholm because its not a country.

He won't understand a lot of what you are saying.

Unfortunately.

Never thought people would be so pessimistic over herd immunity. Oh no, my body has become stronger by recovering from covid19, please let me stay home and cocoon.

"Cocoon" is a contended for word of the year.

RugbyLad11 · 06-05-2020 12:10PM

Did anyone see this?

"From tomorrow, a two-hour period between 1.30pm and 3.30pm will be reserved in all parks across Dublin city and county for people who are cocooning."

https://www.rte.ie/news/post/103399848/

So young people can't even use parks now at the hottest time of the day when we can get the most vitamin d?

A park is not an enclosed space like a supermarket, there is lots of space to social distance

06-05-2020 12:10PM

niallo27 wrote: »

They were completely different viruses in completely different times.

Does not mean that we should not carefully monitor what is happening with this virus based on what we know about previous pandemics.

timmy_mallet · 06-05-2020 12:12PM

lawrencesummers wrote: »

So let’s remove the rules of the road and see if drivers drive properly.

Makes sense

They would.

Rodin · 06-05-2020 12:12PM

RugbyLad11 wrote: »

Did anyone see this?

"From tomorrow, a two-hour period between 1.30pm and 3.30pm will be reserved in all parks across Dublin city and county for people who are cocooning."

https://www.rte.ie/news/post/103399848/

So young people can't even use parks now at the hottest time of the day when we can get the most vitamin d?

A park is not an enclosed space like a supermarket, there is lots of space to social distance

Very strange time of day for it.
Id make it earlier.

Ginger n Lemon · 06-05-2020 12:12PM

RugbyLad11 wrote: »

Did anyone see this?

"From tomorrow, a two-hour period between 1.30pm and 3.30pm will be reserved in all parks across Dublin city and county for people who are cocooning."

https://www.rte.ie/news/post/103399848/

So young people can't even use parks now at the hottest time of the day when we can get the most vitamin d?

A park is not an enclosed space like a supermarket, there is lots of space to social distance

This is very worrying, because most cases that have severe covid19 infections all have vitamin D deficiency. Getting to that stage where government is dictating who gets vitamin D and who does not?

Does any other country do this nonsense? thats what i wonder. I havent heard of any country having 2km 5km 20km craziness, now you can go to a park and I cant because i am not a certain age? NPHET has lost the plot

Relaxation of restrictions Part II

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