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John Waters & Gemma O'Doherty to challenge lockdown in the high Court

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Comments

  • #1202
    Xertz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭Xertz


    Balf wrote: »
    "Lot of leeway for limited" is a direct contradiction..

    Which is a misquote.
    Xertz wrote:
    There’s also a lot of leeway in almost every legislative framework that allows for emergency powers of limited scope in exceptional circumstances and it would seem this meets all the criteria to warrant that.

    But anyway, it going to be interpreted by the judge(s) and not boardies.


  • #1203
    Balf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 667 ✭✭✭Balf


    Xertz wrote: »
    Which is a misquote.
    But, strangely, makes the point.


  • #1204
    Xertz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭Xertz


    maestroamado wrote: »
    My point is that the Legislation should be water-tight and hopefully it is.
    What i cannot understand is their ability to bring this case when we are all trying our best.
    I wonder will the Judge be able to make an order either way?


    I not be a big fan of either of them and i hate having to take a side.
    I think they are abusing their position and the only thing annoys me is that they can waste Courts, Gardai time with this.
    I suppose it gives us here something to argue about...

    I agree it’s annoying and may seem utterly ludicrous, but that’s how our constitutional system works. Anyone is entitled to bring a constitutional challenge against legislation that they feel isn’t constitutional. How far it gets depends on whether the facts and arguments stack up.

    We have had challenges after referenda and so on and, where they’ve been spurious or didn’t have an argument. They didn’t get very far.

    It doesn’t impact the law as it stands. It doesn’t pause or disrupt anything as they would have to prove it to be unconstitutional to have it struck down. Even if they did, it would just be amended anyway.

    It’s just part of our system of checks and balances and there could also be cases taken that have plenty of merit and are useful. This may not be one of those but they’re entitled to due process and to waste their time and money like anyone else is.

    The legislation will have been as watertight as the drafters and the AG could make it.

    And as I was saying, even if they did find a hole in it, it would just be amended to close it in emergency legislation the following day anyway.

    All they can do is test it for constitutionality. They can’t make any political argument against it. It’s a purely technical case.


  • #1205
    Xertz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭Xertz


    Balf wrote: »
    But, strangely, makes the point.

    It strangely did something anyway.


  • #1206
    Balf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 667 ✭✭✭Balf


    Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »
    No. I'm getting it from the new legislation.

    Here it is for anyone still not prejudiced enough to actually read it.

    https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/act/2020/1/eng/enacted/a0120.pdf
    https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/act/2020/2/eng/enacted/a0220.pdf
    Will it make any difference when that poster reads the factual position is as you said? I doubt it.
    Without prejudice to the generality of section 95, a relevant person may, in the course of exercising a power or performing a function conferred on that officer by regulations under subsection (1), require a member of the Garda Síochána to assist in the exercise of the power or the performance of the function, including by way of temporarily detaining any person, bringing a person to any place, breaking open of any premises, or any other action in which the use of force may be necessary and is lawful, and any member of the Garda Síochána so required shall comply with the requirement.
    Notwithstanding subsections (2) and (3), where it appears to the Commission that, due to the exigencies of the public health emergency, a tribunal cannot be appointed in accordance with those subsections, it may appoint a tribunal consisting of one member who shall be a practising barrister or solicitor who has had not less than 7 years’ experience as a practising barrister or solicitor ending immediately before such appointment.
    To be fair, reading the out-of-date version of the legislation is at least an attempt to get informed.

    Notable, though, that no one seemed to know the facts of the matter.


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  • #1207
    Snickers Man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭Snickers Man


    I'm beginning to think she's quite sexy.

    Maybe I've been locked down for too long.


  • #1208
    Balf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 667 ✭✭✭Balf


    Xertz wrote: »
    I agree it’s annoying and may seem utterly ludicrous, but that’s how our constitutional system works. .
    Hear, hear.

    That whole democracy thing is another annoyance. Ludicrous in the extreme.


  • #1209
    Balf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 667 ✭✭✭Balf


    Snickers Man wrote: »
    I'm beginning to think she's quite sexy.

    Maybe I've been locked down for too long.
    Not even using John Waters as a condom.


  • #1210
    Xertz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭Xertz


    Balf wrote: »
    Hear, hear.

    That whole democracy thing is another annoyance. Ludicrous in the extreme.

    That’s not what I said either. Misquoting and adding things to people’s posts doesn’t really add to the discussion.
    Have you considered a career in The Daily Express?

    We’re entitled to think a point of view, a political opinion, a candidate or a case is utterly ludicrous, absolutely disagree with it or even find it repulsive.

    However, that doesn’t mean that it won’t be heard or that cases or opinions forward.

    Gemma has been accorded the opportunity to stand for election - she didn’t do very well, but she was entitled to stand and she did.

    She has been afforded the right to take the state to court. She’s been treated very fairly at all times, and has been given more scope than she would in almost any other country that I can think of, yet she still seems to express the view that we are all a bunch of fascists and regularly goes on rants about this being a dictatorship and so on.

    Everything about that just completely disproves all of her conspiracy theories, yet she will, I’ve no doubt, continue to believe and express those views.

    You can see why people just get fed up hearing them.


  • #1211
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,004 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    Xertz wrote: »
    There’s also a lot of leeway in almost every legislative framework that allows for emergency powers of limited scope in exceptional circumstances and it would seem this meets all the criteria to warrant that.

    We had emergency situations during WWII. We also had during the height of the Northern Ireland troubles.

    This emergency may not involve bombs, guns and the risk of being taken out by the Luftwaffe, but it has, if mismanaged, the risk of causing very large numbers of deaths and absolute chaos.

    I think we’re likely to see just how horrible this disease really is when it started to run though places that really don’t have the infrastructure to deal with it. I mean flawed and all as the HSE may be, it is actually a pretty solidly funded, high tech, capable and comprehensive system and as a nation we tend to take things pragmatically.

    We haven’t had a meltdown. Supply chains are all still working very well. We’ll get the economy back up and running and so will all of our EU neighbours, the U.K. and the US (well... possibly after a bit of drama with Trump) but they’ll survive and get back to reality soon as they all have the infrastructure - health, social and economic to do so.

    In all cases all of those countries too drastic action, including restricting movement of people.

    If we had done nothing, we almost certainly wouldn’t be in very good shape now. Watch places like Brazil over the weeks ahead for a rather tragic illustration of why those moves were necessary.

    Post of the Thread IMHO.

    Thus far in Éire,we have had c. 8 weeks of what we regard as "Lockdown",and as Xertz asserts ( ;)) it's been a pragmatic Irish version of the term,as can be experienced throughout the State.

    We have turned our national tendency to sit-on-the-fence,to good use,which has allowed us to avoid both the losses experienced by our former Colonial Masters,and the draconian counter-measures employed out-forren,where EVERY Peeler carries a sidearm,and a big-stick to aid enforcement of various laws.

    It's truly indicative that the most awful scenario our Media could find,was Plain Clothes Gardai...disguised in blue windcheaters with GARDA ocross the back,discreeetly wielding firearms as they stood by at Checkpoints.....truly the stuff of Beria !

    We WILL get back to work,we WILL get back to living and worrying about important stuff such as Football,Horseracing,Politics and all that jazz....this stuff is part of the natural cycle of life itself,sometimes required when the Planet needs to flex a muscle to remind us who's boss.

    Sure there will be a period of adjustment,and things will be adapted to take new fears and realities into account,but then it's back to the grindstone we go....

    MAGA !...OOppps...sorry,my bad....MIGA :D


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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  • #1212
    sliabh 1956
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 493 ✭✭sliabh 1956


    On my way to and from work I was stopped by two delightful and pleasant Gardai courteous and good humored .


  • #1213
    Snickers Man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭Snickers Man


    Snickers Man wrote: »
    I'm beginning to think she's quite sexy.

    Maybe I've been locked down for too long.
    Balf wrote: »
    Not even using John Waters as a condom.

    I may be a little weird, and maybe a bit stir crazy, but Dude, you're sick!!!:eek:


  • #1214
    Cupatae
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,915 ✭✭✭Cupatae


    Balf wrote: »
    Will it make any difference when that poster reads the factual position is as you said? I doubt it.
    To be fair, reading the out-of-date version of the legislation is at least an attempt to get informed.

    Notable, though, that no one seemed to know the facts of the matter.

    The fact of the matter is we are in lock down for the greater good of the people, and no sausage reading legislation or gemma o doherty is gonna change it, and thats a fact. How is this even a debate lol.


  • #1215
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,228 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »
    Because you personally spend so much of your time on this site bashing them, so much so that you yourself are actively being discussed on other websites as suffering from GOD Derangement Syndrome?

    Ah ok. So now its about bashing me...

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #1216
    Cupatae
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,915 ✭✭✭Cupatae


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Ah ok. So now its about bashing me...

    whats GOD Derangement Syndrome when its at home?


  • #1217
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,955 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Cupatae wrote: »
    whats GOD Derangement Syndrome when its at home?


    Bad dose of the squirts I heard


  • #1218
    Balf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 667 ✭✭✭Balf


    Xertz wrote: »
    That’s not what I said either. Misquoting and adding things to people’s posts doesn’t really add to the discussion. .
    Its helpful to let people see where they need to reflect a little
    Xertz wrote: »

    She has been afforded the right to take the state to court. She’s been treated very fairly at all times, and has been given more scope than she would in almost any other country that I can think of, yet she still seems to express the view that we are all a bunch of fascists and regularly goes on rants about this being a dictatorship and so on.

    Everything about that just completely disproves all of her conspiracy theories, yet she will, I’ve no doubt, continue to believe and express those views.

    You can see why people just get fed up hearing them
    .
    Indeed, about five thousand posts ago I agreed her involvement helps Government. Because who wants to seem on the same side of an argument as Gemma.

    At the same time, it would need a very blinkered outlook to lightly pass over arbitrary powers to seize and detain people on suspicion. Sometimes necessary. Is this one of those times? Hmm.


  • #1219
    Balf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 667 ✭✭✭Balf


    Cupatae wrote: »
    The fact of the matter is we are in lock down for the greater good of the people, and no sausage reading legislation or gemma o doherty is gonna change it, and thats a fact. How is this even a debate lol.
    I'm in awe of the erudition you bring to the discussion.

    I hope you found making that post as cathartic as shouting for your county team.


  • #1220
    Cupatae
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,915 ✭✭✭Cupatae


    Balf wrote: »
    I'm in awe of the erudition you bring to the discussion.

    I hope you found making that post as cathartic as shouting for your county team.

    Sorry lad i dont have my thesaurus handy can you give that a go with normal words this time.. sound.


  • #1221
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,955 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Cupatae wrote: »
    Sorry lad i dont have my thesaurus handy can you give that a go with normal words this time.. sound.


    Google is your friend!!


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  • #1222
    Cupatae
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,915 ✭✭✭Cupatae


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Google is your friend!!

    There is no reason to utilize such words in a prevalent discussion on boards.Perhaps if i utilize more exotic words to get my points across people will cerebrate im more astute and will integrate more weight to my opinions


  • #1223
    shaveAbullock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 965 ✭✭✭shaveAbullock


    Cupatae wrote: »
    The fact of the matter is we are in lock down for the greater good of the people, and no sausage reading legislation or gemma o doherty is gonna change it, and thats a fact. How is this even a debate lol.

    Wouldn't you agree that all laws must not breach our constitution? It is at the heart of the foundation of our state. It can be amended as needed but there is due process.
    I'm not saying the current laws on the lock down are unconstitutional. But it would be very dangerous not to let citizens contest in court laws that may be unconstitutional.


  • #1224
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,955 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    shaveAbullock wrote: »
    Wouldn't you agree that all laws must not breach our constitution? It is at the heart of the foundation of our state. It can be amended as needed but there is due process.
    I'm not saying the current laws on the lock down are unconstitutional. But it would be very dangerous not to let citizens contest in court laws that may be unconstitutional.

    This is just a PR exercise for GOD and her idiot followers, if she even stuck to one topic but she is just throwing darts at the board to see what cr*p she can go after next

    Yes of reasonable people went to court you would say yes, but this is just idiots who want some media attention


  • #1225
    Cupatae
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,915 ✭✭✭Cupatae


    shaveAbullock wrote: »
    Wouldn't you agree that all laws must not breach our constitution? It is at the heart of the foundation of our state. It can be amended as needed but there is due process.
    I'm not saying the current laws on the lock down are unconstitutional. But it would be very dangerous not to let citizens contest in court laws that may be unconstitutional.

    i intellectualize they should not be authenticated to uncooperativeness laws for the consideration of contemptuous


  • #1226
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,770 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    When is the case actually being heard?


  • #1227
    Cupatae
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,915 ✭✭✭Cupatae


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    When is the case actually being heard?

    im not incontrovertible when the discriminating dates are but foreconscious conceptualize its not being taken extraordinarily unquestioningly


  • #1228
    YFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    She is saying she is getting stopped up to ten times per day. I have my doubts.


  • #1229
    Frank Bullitt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,039 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    YFlyer wrote: »
    She is saying she is getting stopped up to ten times per day. I have my doubts.

    I can imagine that once the Garda see her in her car, they just wave her on at this stage.


  • #1230
    CrabRevolution
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,962 ✭✭✭CrabRevolution


    YFlyer wrote: »
    She is saying she is getting stopped up to ten times per day. I have my doubts.
    It wouldn't surprise me if she deliberately drove around to find checkpoints.


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  • #1231
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,955 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    YFlyer wrote: »
    She is saying she is getting stopped up to ten times per day. I have my doubts.


    She video one Garda check point, hoping for a big fight, they waved her past.....I doubt anyone gives a s**t what she is doing


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