The UK response to Covid-19 [MOD WARNING 1ST POST]

BonnieSituation · 01-05-2020 07:11PM

Aegir wrote: »

You obviously care.

It is relevant because it confirms if not joining the combined tenders was the correct decision. A decision several other countries made as well.

Do I?

I'm glad you've popped back in to set us straight.

CelticRambler · 01-05-2020 07:27PM

Enzokk wrote: »

The swab is apparently quite unpleasant and I wonder how someone at home will do it properly.

If the number of people who don't know how to wear a mask correctly is anything to go by, I'd say there'll be a lot of false negatives ...

RobMc59 wrote: »

the rest of the world will see that the UK is working very hard to defeat this virus.

Unfortunately not: a test does nothing to "defeat" a virus - everything rests on the actions taken as a result of such a test, and the "rest of the world" has no idea what the UK is doing (or planning to do) in that respect. All we can deduce from the "numbers of tests" target being achieved is that the government is driven by numbers, not by science - and that doesn't bode well for the ongoing management of the disease.

It would have been far better, for example, to run half a dozen pilot projects in towns/townlands with a population of 20000 each, testing every single person to get a good idea of how the virus is spreading and how many mild/asymptomatic cases there are. Instead, they're just going to get 100000 test results of no statistical benefit due to the inherent flaws in the tests and the testing process.

01-05-2020 07:46PM

Joe_ Public wrote: »

I'm sure lots of people will be hugely appreciative and blisfully overlook whatever sleights of hand were used to get there. Personally i just cant overlook them, sorry. As already stated, it's fine if they're really only doing 60-70,000 or thereabouts. From where they were its reasonable progress.

Then I suggest you write to your local MP and complain.

Professor Moriarty · 01-05-2020 08:43PM

Just a thought. Some people have an issue with a British government being criticised mercilessly on here. As if an Irish discussion board shouldn't be criticising the British government's response to Covid-19. Well, people can factually engage with the discussion or they can choose not to engage with the discussion. Ranting about the Irish government's response, or attacking posters without engaging with their point of view, indicates a dearth of cogent or coherent argument. Maybe if people feel insulted by this discussion, and the justifiable criticism of the British government's response, then they might consider not reading the posts.

theological · 01-05-2020 08:54PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Just a thought. Some people have an issue with a British government being criticised mercilessly on here. As if an Irish discussion board shouldn't be criticising the British government's response to Covid-19. Well, people can factually engage with the discussion or they can choose not to engage with the discussion. Ranting about the Irish government's response, or attacking posters without engaging with their point of view, indicates a dearth of cogent or coherent argument. Maybe if people feel insulted by this discussion, and the justifiable criticism of the British government's response, then they might consider not reading the posts.

I don't mind reasonable criticism. Some of the criticisms in respect to issues which several governments are struggling with in Europe are disproportionate I've found.

I also don't mind criticism that is based on data rather than speculation. The problem is that a large proportion of the critical posts are speculative.

Joe_ Public · 01-05-2020 09:09PM

I'm basing todaya criticism on data that shows they added 39,000 tests to the daily total just so they could humblebrag about reaching some spurious target. Always pay attention to the data.

RobMc59 · 01-05-2020 09:17PM

theological wrote: »

I don't mind reasonable criticism. Some of the criticisms in respect to issues which several governments are struggling with in Europe are disproportionate I've found.

I also don't mind criticism that is based on data rather than speculation. The problem is that a large proportion of the critical posts are speculative.

I agree,the amount of speculative,anecdotal criticism here is quite depressing at times.
Today`s news about testing resulted in an avalanche of surly bitterness and suggesting `what British posters should do if they don`t like it` is akin to a child throwing it`s toys out of the cot.
Another echo chamber is`nt good for healthy discussion.

A Dub in Glasgo · 01-05-2020 09:26PM

RobMc59 wrote: »

I agree,the amount of speculative,anecdotal criticism here is quite depressing at times.
Today`s news about testing resulted in an avalanche of surly bitterness and suggesting `what British posters should do if they don`t like it` is akin to a child throwing it`s toys out of the cot.
Another echo chamber is`nt good for healthy discussion.

TRhe UK govt chose to go speculative with their nonsense today

BonnieSituation · 01-05-2020 09:53PM

robinph wrote: »

Couldn't care less if they are sending out or processing 100,000 tests a day or if they are only doing 80k. Totally irrelevant unless you are the leader of the opposition and have run out of other problems to hit the party in power with.

The important thing is that tests are available and being processed for those who need them. A number being reached means nothing.

It matters that other NHS services are being restored, it matters that tests are available and it matters that the results are quick and accurate.

If it doesn't matter then why do they keep going on and on and on and on about them? Seems to matter to the ukgov.

BonnieSituation · 01-05-2020 09:55PM

Aegir wrote: »

Have you asked NHS_Susan what she thinks?

You've really run out of road if this is your new straw-woman.

It's almost like you're trying to shut down debate.

BonnieSituation · 01-05-2020 09:57PM

theological wrote: »

So bitter!

He achieved the goal, and exceeded the target. The testing figure daily is pretty close to what they are doing in Germany now. That's a big step forward. I think praise where praise is due, people were saying here he wouldn't do it.

What was the achievement that we should praise?

You know doing their job shouldn't be worthy of praise. It should be the basic expectation.

So can we trust whatever numbers you're jumping all over? Can I have a breakdown?

BonnieSituation · 01-05-2020 10:04PM

theological wrote: »

My posts provide balance by showing the other side of the argument that doesn't get aired here.

I'm interested in discussing the issues. You just want the thread to be an echo chamber. I can't do that for you.

I saw this. The testing figure is 22,000+ over 100,000. Well over the target in any case even if I was to allow some reduction if you exclude home testing kits.

But if you're parroting obfuscation and bluster how is that balance?

BonnieSituation · 01-05-2020 10:12PM

theological wrote: »

I'm entitled to post what I like irrespective of whether you or others agree.

A proper discussion on this topic requires representation of different viewpoints. If you want this to be an echo chamber I apologise, but I won't provide this for you by stepping aside.

If 100% of people in a room have proof of and agree that the house is made of bricks and would now like to move on to other subjects like decoration and renovation, who does it serve, but yourself, that they then have to listen to your interminable argument that it is in fact made of cheese and we need to make sure that this fact is recorded for balance.

It's a nonsense that this is what counts for balance these days.

Joe_ Public · 01-05-2020 10:17PM

I have no issue giving credit where it's due. And Cummings, levido et al are playing a blinder. Today just fits in to a well worn pattern. They dont even have to make it subtle, just throw an extra 40,000 in there and declare with a straight face you achieved the target and when people and the media question it, as they must, you know your base will simply just turn on them and let you go scot free. I mean, you just gotta hand it to them. They might not be great with the tricky stuff, like floods and pandemics and what not, but this kind of stuff, they have got down pat.

CelticRambler · 01-05-2020 10:41PM

BonnieSituation wrote: »

If 100% of people in a room have proof of and agree that the house is made of bricks and would now like to move on to other subjects like decoration and renovation, who does it serve, but yourself, that they then have to listen to your interminable argument that it is in fact made of cheese and we need to make sure that this fact is recorded for balance.

Hmm. You might want to pick a better line of logic. A certain Mr. Galileo once had this crazy idea that the Earth rotated around the sun, but 100% of the people in the room at the time had proof that it was the other way around.

There was also a guy back in the last century who put forward this daft notion that Yellow Fever was spread by mosquitos, and he was laughed out of the room by the 100% who had proof that it was spread by infected humours from the dead.

But those are the kinds of mistakes that have helped us develop our current scientific method, where and idea is proposed, then tested by various people in various ways until a consensus is formed. That's where this "led-by-science" form of politics, most notably on show in the UK and the US, is failing repeatedly. If you're going to perform an experiment, you can't change the rules on a whim as the UK government has done several times.

Despite a similar level of criticism being levelled at the Swedish government for their strategy (almost identical to the original British plan) they haven't yielded to popular or international pressure.

01-05-2020 11:29PM

BonnieSituation wrote: »

You've really run out of road if this is your new straw-woman.

It's almost like you're trying to shut down debate.

Not shut down debate, just showing that people believe what they want to believe and plenty of it is bull****.

BonnieSituation · 01-05-2020 11:31PM

RobMc59 wrote: »

.The UK population will be happy testing has ramped up significantly and the rest of the world will see that the UK is working very hard to defeat this virus.
If you and a few others choose to put a negative spin on this achievement,that's up to you.I doubt many UK people will loose any sleep about that-I certainly won't.

You're making the UK sound like a 13yo girl crying out for validation. It's weird.

BonnieSituation · 01-05-2020 11:37PM

Aegir wrote: »

Not shut down debate, just showing that people believe what they want to believe and plenty of it is bull****.

The projection is strong in this one.

splinter65 · 01-05-2020 11:44PM

BonnieSituation wrote: »

You're making the UK sound like a 13yo girl crying out for validation. It's weird.

It’s been yet another “whyohwhyohwhyohwhy but...but...but....but” day for the left both here and in the UK. Soooo many days like this in recent years. Like left hooks landing on a boxers chin in a big fight in MSG.
All that had to happen was that May 1st would come and they wouldn’t have reached the 100,000 target.
You were looking forward to going full looney left for the public holiday so beloved of socialists but it didn’t work out. Again.
Better luck next time.
Congrats to Matt Hancock and the whole cabinet for getting on top of this tragedy despite getting the virus himself and the PM nearly dying. Some achievement.
Think about this. You’re disapponted more people in the UK aren’t dead. How does that feel when it’s pointed out to you?

A Dub in Glasgo · 02-05-2020 12:32AM

splinter65 wrote: »

All that had to happen was that May 1st would come and they wouldn’t have reached the 100,000 target.

The UK govt did not reach their target

threeball · 02-05-2020 12:59AM

By Monday morning the UK will have the highest death rate in all of Europe and we will have the same heads here telling us how well they're doing. How they listened to the science and we can't make judgements until the peak has passed and the numbers are in. At what point do you actually give up the comical Ali routine and admit what we've all known for months. It's been a disaster and remains a disaster. Even without overrunning the NHS the death rate is surging past Spain and now Italy. Worst in all of Europe and yet still something some of you claim to be happy with. You may think its patriotic, but its anything but.

Zubeneschamali · 02-05-2020 06:54AM

Aegir wrote: »

He was making it very clear.

But he didn't dance to Abba!

robinph · 02-05-2020 08:40AM

Joe_ Public wrote: »

I have no issue giving credit where it's due. And Cummings, levido et al are playing a blinder. Today just fits in to a well worn pattern. They dont even have to make it subtle, just throw an extra 40,000 in there and declare with a straight face you achieved the target and when people and the media question it, as they must, you know your base will simply just turn on them and let you go scot free. I mean, you just gotta hand it to them. They might not be great with the tricky stuff, like floods and pandemics and what not, but this kind of stuff, they have got down pat.

There could very well have been an extra 40k added to the previous days count as well.

I don't believe that the number of tests actually completed was the same on both days, they still increased the number just nobody asked by how much.

Leroy42 · 02-05-2020 09:18AM

Before we get our hands too sore from all the back slapping of Hancock and the government, we need to remember that this is a target that he set himself

He decided it, based on his own information. And he still missed it. He failed to do what he promised to do. Close, well 80%, so not that close. 4/5s of what he said he would do.

Is it better than the, frankly, disastrous numbers prior to that. But those numbers were a inditememt of how poorly they were handling the crisis, which is what prompted Hamcock to promise the number in the first place.

Did he have a plan on how the 100k was to be done when he announced it? What part of that 0lan didn't work out? Why not? Who is at fault for the missed target?

With the deaths at such a high level, surely they should be looking at getting ahead rather than simply nearly doing what they said they would.

Professor Moriarty · 02-05-2020 09:32AM

Interesting chart here. Of 20 countries surveyed for tests per confirmed cases as of April 28th, the UK is second last, just pipping Ecuador.

Zubeneschamali · 02-05-2020 09:40AM

The usual pattern in this thread:

Wonderful news! They hit the target! Kudos!

No, they missed the target and then lied about it.

The target was never important! Also, you smell!

Sigh.

theological · 02-05-2020 09:42AM

Aegir wrote: »

Not shut down debate, just showing that people believe what they want to believe and plenty of it is bull****.

I'd always try to stick with polite language, but I agree with you, a lot of posters dress up speculation as fact on this thread which is a bit frustrating, particularly when I ask them about what the speculation is based on only to not get an answer.

It is also ironic that the accusation is that we are shutting down discussion by providing a fuller picture of what is happening particularly in the context of other European countries.

There are many who would like to shut down discussion by taking perspectives like ours off the thread.

BonnieSituation wrote: »

You're making the UK sound like a 13yo girl crying out for validation. It's weird.

Actually, you're giving the UK a disproportionate amount of attention already on this thread. If anything I'm suggesting perhaps we need to take a holistic view of the picture around Europe. The UK is not an outlier on many of the problems it is facing at the moment.

The UK will get through it. My major criticism of the British government at the moment is that it is infantilising us by not giving a clear roadmap of the way out of lockdown. I was impressed by what was presented by the Irish government yesterday. Clear stages, clear expectations and clear dates all staggered by appropriate 3 week gaps to analyse the results.

I expect the same from Boris Johnson next Thursday. If we don't see something like this I will continue to criticise in a balanced manner.

Professor Moriarty · 02-05-2020 09:51AM

In terms of tests per million population, aside from the Netherlands which it just pipped, the UK is ranked well below neighbours such as Ireland, Spain, Portugal, Belgium, France, Denmark, Norway. For example and pro rata, Ireland has done more double the number of UK tests.

Enzokk · 02-05-2020 10:04AM

theological wrote: »

I'd always try to stick with polite language, but I agree with you, a lot of posters dress up speculation as fact on this thread which is a bit frustrating, particularly when I ask them about what the speculation is based on only to not get an answer.

It is also ironic that the accusation is that we are shutting down discussion by providing a fuller picture of what is happening particularly in the context of other European countries.

There are many who would like to shut down discussion by taking perspectives like ours off the thread.

This adds nothing to this thread. You are just complaining to another poster that agrees with your point of view. At the same time you will lament the echo chamber of this thread, while you try to create your own. I find that somewhat hilarious, you complaining about the very thing you are doing.

By the way, has the advice been released yet that the UK Government based their policy on? How can you know if it was the "right decision at the right time" if you don't know what advice they were given and what policies they decided on from that advice?

devnull · 02-05-2020 10:14AM

theological wrote: »

Actually, you're giving the UK a disproportionate amount of attention already on this thread. If anything I'm suggesting perhaps we need to take a holistic view of the picture around Europe.

The thread title is 'The UK Response to Covid-19' so there cannot be a disproportionate amount of attention in this thread, when it comes to the UK, because that is exactly what this thread is about. If you want a more general discussion then there is a thread for that in this forum.

This is the case regardless of however much people try and drag the thread off-topic and resort to whataboutery in order to try and deflect from the issues at hand and also to steer the discussion away from the title off this thread and attempt to shut down discussion about the topic at hand.

The UK response to Covid-19 [MOD WARNING 1ST POST]

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