Covid19 Part XVI- 21,983 in ROI (1,339 deaths) 3,881 in NI (404 deaths)(05/05)Read OP

speckle · 29-04-2020 11:40AM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Financial cracks are showing, dept of social protection and dept of business are out of money in June, budgets gone. New budgets for the departments would require a government in place to approve.

I think the problem is elaborated on here its more about electing a taoiseach who then chooses 11 seanad members.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/oireachtas-can-pass-laws-in-public-interest-without-taoiseach-seanad-nominees-1.4213010?mode=amp

irishlad. · 29-04-2020 11:41AM

https://twitter.com/Care2much18/status/1255217081596948481

Very important to remember this when trying to compare Irish death rates to other countries. Are we really criticising transparency and honesty?

is_that_so · 29-04-2020 11:46AM

irishlad. wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Care2much18/status/1255217081596948481

Very important to remember when trying to compare Irish death rates to other countries. Are we really criticising transparency and honesty?

There's a whole lot of dodgy stat comparison going on, especially as many of them count deaths differently. I think we're making every effort to identify and report all COVID-19 deaths. Even if they were absolutely horrendous it would still give us data on the probable fatality rate.

is_that_so · 29-04-2020 11:48AM

From RTE feed. Citywest info.

The manager of the HSE self-isolation and step-down facility at Citywest hotel has said it has had an increase in referrals to it over the last ten days and is currently assisting 114 people.

Mary Walshe told Today with Sean O'Rourke that the 750-bed facility has been open since 1 April and has three different streams of clients - those who are Covid-positive, those who are awaiting test results and close contacts of infected people who need to self-isolate.

She said that in those four weeks it has seen over 200 people admitted and discharged.

tobefrank321 · 29-04-2020 11:49AM

is_that_so wrote: »

There are two sides to the story and accepting what a nursing home or a HSE person says as gospel is just going to muddy the waters. I suspect that in review there will be things the HSE could have done ( a lot) better just as there will be homes who did not deal very well with this overall.

The HSE made a huge deal about supporting nursing homes. You'd expect the problem to be improving. If the Portarlington home is anything to go by, which it likely is, the problem is as bad as ever.

The home owner, who knows more about this than anyone, said there's now a huge risk the 8 positive cases will cross contaminate other residents. And she's critically short staffed. She said the HSE need to take the 8 positives off her hands.

hmmm · 29-04-2020 11:55AM

Roger_007 wrote: »

We do know that a disproportionate number of the cases are being transmitted within hospitals and nursing homes. We do not know what is going on in the general community because there is no randomised testing going on.
There are various estimates being thrown around about the percentage number of infections in the population simply by multiplying the number of positive tests by some number, (10, 20 or whatever you are having yourself), that seems to be plucked out of the air.

Agreed we won't know exactly how many cases there really are in total, but we can tell from figures such as ICU attendance, hospitalisations, deaths whether the spread is growing or reducing. And that's really all that matters at the moment.

is_that_so · 29-04-2020 11:56AM

tobefrank321 wrote: »

The HSE made a huge deal about supporting nursing homes. You'd expect the problem to be improving. If the Portarlington home is anything to go by, which it likely is, the problem is as bad as ever.

The home owner, who knows more about this than anyone, said there's now a huge risk the 8 positive cases will cross contaminate other residents. And she's critically short staffed. She said the HSE need to take the 8 positives off her hands.

It might be as bad, but one owner has her own drum to bang. Like the HSE and hospitals I think we have seen longstanding systemic problems with such homes, especially in staffing levels. Has she engaged with medical people about the correct care for these people?

Beanybabog · 29-04-2020 11:57AM

Anecdotal, but a relative of mine is in a nursing home and told me they’re operating with a skeleton staff, I said the HSE are supposed to send some but she said there’s none yet. There’s Covid in the home too

Ger Roe · 29-04-2020 12:02PM

irishlad. wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Care2much18/status/1255217081596948481

Very important to remember this when trying to compare Irish death rates to other countries. Are we really criticising transparency and honesty?

This whole reporting/not reporting certain aspects by different countries has been bothering me for a while. Has the WHO / can they not publish a standard reporting procedure that would then allow for accurate comparisons across different countries?

Surely there is a basic research trick being missed there to allow for the accurate capture and consideration of data?

bilston · 29-04-2020 12:06PM

The Swiss have made an interesting announcement today that they have concluded that children under 10 are not infectious and therefore grandparents can now hug their grandchildren.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52470838

Not sure what to make of that. Would be great if it was confirmed. The Germans are saying there isn't enough data yet to draw this conclusion. I'll not be sending the kids for a Nana hug just yet!

GM228 · 29-04-2020 12:08PM

Ger Roe wrote: »

This whole reporting/not reporting certain aspects by different countries has been bothering me for a while. Has the WHO / can they not publish a standard reporting procedure that would then allow for accurate comparisons across different countries?

Surely there is a basic research trick being missed there to allow for the accurate capture and consideration of data?

They have which all UN states should be following, but aren't.

Wombatman · 29-04-2020 12:10PM

hmmm wrote: »

Interesting figures thanks.

This makes no intuitive sense however, our ICU and hospitalisations are falling.

I very much have my doubts about this Imperial group. I believe they also came in for a lot of criticism at the time of Foot & Mouth over their projections.

If not for their analysis, the UK might never have brought in restrictions. For influencing the UK policy reversal alone, they should be given great credit.

RentDayBlues · 29-04-2020 12:12PM

bilston wrote: »

The Swiss have made an interesting announcement today that they have concluded that children under 10 are not infectious and therefore grandparents can now hug their grandchildren.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52470838

Not sure what to make of that. Would be great if it was confirmed. The Germans are saying there isn't enough data yet to draw this conclusion. I'll not be sending the kids for a Nana hug just yet!

It seems very irresponsible on their behalf - how can they be sure of this and put the most vulnerable at risk?

cloudatlas · 29-04-2020 12:17PM

Conor says we should open all businesses on May 5th. Ye've been told.

yourdeadwright · 29-04-2020 12:24PM

Anyone else think Leo and co are pulling a bit of a fast one here,

Restrictions won't be lifted but the government is without wholely blaming making the public they are leading people to believe its the public fault,
When in reality the government are no where near there targets as regards testing numbers and other things that are required before the restriction are lifted but there is very little word from them on there own failings

paddythere · 29-04-2020 12:28PM

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

And as pointed out by myself before, the likes of my neighbor who works as a carer in a home, blatantly ignoring the entire concept of social distancing failing to comprehend the seriousness of the virus itself and disastrous effect it can not only have on themselves but on others. She works as a carer in a care home. How much of a thick degenerate do you have to be to not grasp how serious their role is in the current climate. It infuriates me!! Garda lives across the way had enough too as he went out to them, but it's too late now as the damage would have already been done.

Its shocking isnt it. People don't like hearing the truth but I'm afraid many carers have been irresponsible with this virus...

My best mate is seeing a bird who works in a private nursing home. His mother, who he lives with, recently tested positive for the virus. Do you think he has stopped seeing his girlfriend? Not at all.. When I told him over the phone that he could easily already have the virus and have passed it on to his girlfriend who then passes it on the patients in her job he didnt seem to think it was possible unless he was showing symptoms. Now, I'd expect this kind of attitude from my mate but not from the carer that he is seeing

hmmm · 29-04-2020 12:30PM

bilston wrote: »

The Swiss have made an interesting announcement today that they have concluded that children under 10 are not infectious and therefore grandparents can now hug their grandchildren.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52470838

Not sure what to make of that. Would be great if it was confirmed. The Germans are saying there isn't enough data yet to draw this conclusion. I'll not be sending the kids for a Nana hug just yet!

I'm sure it's based on sound science, and would be great news if other countries were confident enough in the same science. Whatever about grandparents, schooling and childcare are huge issues.

growleaves · 29-04-2020 12:30PM

Restrictions won't be lifted but the government is without wholely blaming making the public they are leading people to believe its the public fault

Since the public apparently believe everything they're told, why not tell the public its their fault? The average person will happily blame their neighbours or someone they saw in Lidl for imaginary transgressions.

GM228 · 29-04-2020 12:31PM

bilston wrote: »

The Swiss have made an interesting announcement today that they have concluded that children under 10 are not infectious and therefore grandparents can now hug their grandchildren.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52470838

Not sure what to make of that. Would be great if it was confirmed. The Germans are saying there isn't enough data yet to draw this conclusion. I'll not be sending the kids for a Nana hug just yet!

Eh...

"Young children are not infected and do not transmit the virus," he said. "They just don't have the receptors to catch the disease."

And yet kids in most countries have confirmed cases and have even died.

I think I'll pass on their conclusions.

is_that_so · 29-04-2020 12:37PM

Nice graphic of how the virus works and descriptions of the various current vaccine approaches.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01221-y

MonkieSocks · 29-04-2020 12:42PM

hmmm wrote: »

I'm sure it's based on sound science, and would be great news if other countries were confident enough in the same science. Whatever about grandparents, schooling and childcare are huge issues.

Seriously doubt about this

The virus gets into people airways to the lungs via being inhaled through mouth, nasal passages.

Under 10 yr olds will get it the same way as all other people do.....kids get all sorts of infections and viruses

We all inhale and exhale the same way

polesheep · 29-04-2020 12:45PM

hmmm wrote: »

Just on this, the virus is being brought into the homes, presumably by care staff. Care staff are living in the community, and if the virus is circulating in the community this is where they risk contracting it. That's why the lockdown in the general public affects the care homes.

You can't simply isolate care homes, not unless the staff agree to be locked up with the residents.

I think you have that the wrong way around. It's more likely that the staff got it from the residents, thanks to the HSE moving patients into nursing homes.

yourdeadwright · 29-04-2020 12:47PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Anyone else think Leo and co are pulling a bit of a fast one here,

Restrictions won't be lifted but the government is without wholely blaming making the public they are leading people to believe its the public fault,
When in reality the government are no where near there targets as regards testing numbers and other things that are required before the restriction are lifted but there is very little word from them on there own failings

Just to expand on this it baffles me how some people think the government and NHS are all of a sudden brilliant,

They have been awful for the past 20 years its not like they just got good over night, Seems any spin coming out of the governments mouth is whole heartily being believed,

Last night it was reported there was 4 cases here in February and like the cervical check shame the nations latest hero Tony Holohan has claimed not to know about it , Yet to many he is a national hero the last month,

Its a very strange time ,

caveat emptor · 29-04-2020 12:52PM

Yaneer bar-yam is your man! Nice symmetry to this tweet.

https://twitter.com/yaneerbaryam/status/1255454430755000321?s=21

29-04-2020 12:55PM

Gynoid wrote: »

The "mask hysteria". I think you need to offer your consultancy services to all the medical people from dentists to doctors and nurses who have up to this point in their medical careers been hysterically wearing masks.
And then to non ironically speak of "populism'.

Massive difference between a dentist drilling in someones mouth at a distance of a few inches and going for a run in the park. Where there is no close contact and your in open spaces there is no benefit to wearing a mask. Public transport, indoors or group environments is a different matter

bekker · 29-04-2020 01:01PM

speckle wrote: »

I think the problem is elaborated on here its more about electing a taoiseach who then chooses 11 seanad members.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/oireachtas-can-pass-laws-in-public-interest-without-taoiseach-seanad-nominees-1.4213010?mode=amp

Cogent arguments on the absence of a constitutional requirement for Taoiseach's nominees to be appointed prior to the convening of the new Seanad.

So then there is no constitutional block to passing any necessary legislation. It must always be remembered that the AG is a political appointee and that a barrister will alway seek the legal interpretation most favourable to his client's position.

The interpretation being put forward by the caretaker government is designed to force smaller parties into the construction of government.

As those parties have access to competent legal advice it must be assumed that the manoeuvre is designed to manipulate public opinion into pressurising those parties into joining FG and FF through the prospect of an new election unpopular with COVID-19.

bekker · 29-04-2020 01:04PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Massive difference between a dentist drilling in someones mouth at a distance of a few inches and going for a run in the park. Where there is no close contact and your in open spaces there is no benefit to wearing a mask. Public transport, indoors or group environments is a different matter

Unfortunately a lot of joggers and cyclists are making no real attempt to socially distance when coming upon pedestrians.

29-04-2020 01:05PM

peasant wrote: »

Thanks for the link to this report !

Now, I have to admit , my brain goes into total lockdown when it comes to the mathematical explanation of their different models. I don't understand it ...never mind being able to pick holes in it to explain why their figures are so different from what we're hearing.

But surely, these people do know what they are talking about...and if so, this is bloody scary:

An expected number of deaths between 1000 and 5000 for next week :eek:

Can somebody more mathematically minded perhaps explain how we think we're almost ready for easing restrictions when this says the total opposite?

They just plugged in the raw data and the 200 death day where all the probable cases were added is producing crazy results.

growleaves · 29-04-2020 01:08PM

Coronavirus: 95% of victims in England hospitals had underlying health conditions

In a small number of cases, it was not possible to confirm if a patient did or did not have an underlying health condition.

But for those where it was, 95% were found to have serious pre-existing issues.

Wibbs · 29-04-2020 01:11PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Massive difference between a dentist drilling in someones mouth at a distance of a few inches and going for a run in the park. Where there is no close contact and your in open spaces there is no benefit to wearing a mask. Public transport, indoors or group environments is a different matter

I agree, the mask question is almost entirely about shared enclosed spaces where distancing is problematic or impossible. If someone, particularly in a vulnerable group wants to wear one in the open, then fine, their choice, but otherwise no.

Covid19 Part XVI- 21,983 in ROI (1,339 deaths) 3,881 in NI (404 deaths)(05/05)Read OP

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