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Covid19 Part XVI- 21,983 in ROI (1,339 deaths) 3,881 in NI (404 deaths)(05/05)Read OP

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Comments

  • #5612
    KrustyUCC
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,077 ✭✭✭KrustyUCC


    dfx- wrote: »
    Ultimately, this is the problem. Reintroduce it too slow and people will also start to try to get around it. That's not an Irish thing either. But you have to show the way forward beyond restrictions.

    There aren't any other restrictions you can bring in either, it's just more of the same and hope it improves. Blame whoever you like, but that is not going to work.

    Absolutely

    Go too soon and we will have second wave

    Leave it too late and people won't pay attention

    Delicate balance

    However this is where the road map apparently only stating that restrictions will be lifted on phases "at the appropriate time" is useless

    What's the appropriate time? 2024? 2065?


  • #5613
    Deeper Blue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,399 ✭✭✭Deeper Blue


    Why would they increase the limit to 5km? I don't see how that would benefit either side


  • #5614
    KrustyUCC
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,077 ✭✭✭KrustyUCC


    walshb wrote: »
    Ok, so what are the predictions May 5?

    I think the 2k zone increased to 5

    Over 70s can leave house to exercise....

    Some businesses advised they can open with measures in place......

    Yeah those seem likely

    measures that won't make a huge difference to many but they need to give something

    Over 70s can leave house to exercise as it is


  • #5615
    begbysback
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,910 ✭✭✭begbysback


    walshb wrote: »
    Ok, so what are the predictions May 5?

    I think the 2k zone increased to 5

    Over 70s can leave house to exercise....

    Some businesses advised they can open with measures in place......

    Not sure if the extra 3k makes much difference to a lot of people, but it would mean I can go to the Phoenix park so it would be useful to my mental health, over 70s should definitely be permitted to make their own decisions.


  • #5616
    Xertz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭Xertz


    bettyoleary wrote: »
    Yes and I'm very proud of them, that's my point. I was born in the UK to Irish parents and its very disheartening to read comments on here anti UK when we have plenty of room for criticism closer to home before we start extending it to UK. I trained as a nurse in the UK and have spent my working life in Ireland looking after my Irish citizens. When somebody on here commented on the devastating number of deaths in the UK and the OP below quoted the lines from the song by Queen "another one" it was extremely upsetting. Especilly when you consider a large part of those who have sucummed to this will be Irish in the UK.

    Unfortunately you’ll always get your % of jingoists in any country sticking the boot in, either because they’ve an axe to grind or they just think they’re being funny.

    I’ve seen a few comments in response to irish stats and EU moves on twitter from Brexiteers that would make your hair stand on end and you’ll get anti English rubbish from people here. I think all you can do is ignore in both directions.

    Criticism of Johnson’s cabinet and the insanity of the initial policies over there are completely fair and reasonable, but I think we also need to realise that you cannot describe England or the U.K. as the current batch of out of touch, elitist that seem to inhabit the right wing of the Tories either. There’s a whole other side to Britain and one they we are far more able to relate to and it’s unfortunately at the brunt of a major crisis that’s been badly handled by a bunch of people who should be running tabloid newspapers, not trying to screw up the NHS.


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  • #5617
    owlbethere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,329 ✭✭✭owlbethere


    speckle wrote: »
    thanks that gave me a moment of brevity. remember most kids seem to do well with this virus and I would presume that the subset of severe cases are concentrated in small number of hospitals, its just important people know the symtoms to look out for id atypical to get them to hospital care fast to hopefully get them better again.

    Is this being reported in Irish news like on rte?


  • #5618
    gazzer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,050 ✭✭✭gazzer


    begbysback wrote: »
    Not sure if the extra 3k makes much difference to a lot of people, but it would mean I can go to the Phoenix park so it would be useful to my mental health, over 70s should definitely be permitted to make their own decisions.

    An increase to 5k would certainly help my mum. She usually goes up to the graveyard each Sat to put flowers on the graves of her parents, sister and brother. Since the 2km estriction was brought in she has obviously not been able to do this With an increase to 5km she could

    I know in the normal scheme of things currently it's not a huge issue, but for her it would mean been able to have a small sense of normality.


  • #5619
    podgeandrodge
    Site Banned Posts: 5,975 ✭✭✭podgeandrodge


    begbysback wrote: »
    Not sure if the extra 3k makes much difference to a lot of people, but it would mean I can go to the Phoenix park so it would be useful to my mental health, over 70s should definitely be permitted to make their own decisions.

    It's less about the km I think, and more that they will say you can't go to places where there are mass congregations like parks etc.


  • #5620
    Gretas Gonna Get Ya!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Gretas Gonna Get Ya!


    hmmm wrote: »
    All the vaccine candidates and their status - the slowest moving, most important graph.

    https://vac-lshtm.shinyapps.io/ncov_vaccine_landscape/

    Interesting how one of the Chinese vaccines is doing nearly simultaneous phase I and II

    Yeah, but look how quickly they throw together a knock off iPhone or other piece of tech for the black market... even if it will fall apart within 6 months! :P

    The question is, would you take a rapidly produced Chinese vaccine? Or wait for something that's produced with more quality controls in place? I guess we might have no choice at some point.


  • #5621
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,950 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    walshb wrote: »
    Ok, so what are the predictions May 5?

    I think the 2k zone increased to 5

    Over 70s can leave house to exercise....

    Some businesses advised they can open with measures in place......


    Over 70s are allowed to leave house already just advised not to ,


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  • #5622
    leahyl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,426 ✭✭✭✭leahyl


    KrustyUCC wrote: »
    Yeah those seem likely

    measures that won't make a huge difference to many but they need to give something

    Over 70s can leave house to exercise as it is

    They can but they shouldn't. My parents have been following it to the letter - haven't been outside the house in 5 weeks. It's really hard for my dad, moreso than my mum, as he would go for a walk in the local park every day and have GAA matches, booking office etc. I'm sure he's finding it hard but he doesn't complain.

    I would love if they were able to get outside the bounds of the house for a walk.


  • #5623
    s1ippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,980 ✭✭✭s1ippy


    leahyl wrote: »
    They can but they shouldn't. My parents have been following it to the letter - haven't been outside the house in 5 weeks. It's really hard for my dad, moreso than my mum, as he would go for a walk in the local park every day and have GAA matches, booking office etc. I'm sure he's finding it hard but he doesn't complain.

    I would love if they were able to get outside the bounds of the house for a walk.
    Same with my dad (although he's only in his 60s) but he's been very careful when he's out. He only makes journeys that are 100% necessary.


  • #5624
    Gretas Gonna Get Ya!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Gretas Gonna Get Ya!


    NDWC wrote: »
    Why would they increase the limit to 5km? I don't see how that would benefit either side

    We could get some high quality 10,000m candidates for the next olympics? :D


  • #5625
    Gonzo
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,415 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    changing the 2km to 5km or 10km won't make much of a difference to most people.

    They are likely to relax the over 70s a bit by letting them go outside for short walks or exercise. Some non essential jobs could resume.

    The majority of shops and business's likely to remain closed till at least June, maybe a further lifting of restrictions after the June bank holiday to allow more people back to work and perhaps allow people back on public transport with extra shops being opened in towns and cities.

    Maybe small social gatherings of 5 to 10 people allowed from July. I can't see pubs reopening till at least the autumn and when they do there will be much more crowd control.


  • #5626
    hmmm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,203 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »
    The question is, would you take a rapidly produced Chinese vaccine? Or wait for something that's produced with more quality controls in place? I guess we might have no choice at some point.
    The quality controls for any Chines vaccine would have to meet EU standards to be made available here, so yes. Much of our medication already comes from China, they have a well-developed and well-audited pharma sector.

    I expect by this time next year the entire world will be desperate to get a vaccine.


  • #5627
    Ash3070
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18 ✭Ash3070


    gazzer wrote: »
    An increase to 5k would certainly help my mum. She usually goes up to the graveyard each Sat to put flowers on the graves of her parents, sister and brother. Since the 2km estriction was brought in she has obviously not been able to do this With an increase to 5km she could

    I know in the normal scheme of things currently it's not a huge issue, but for her it would mean been able to have a small sense of normality.

    My nanny is the same way. The graveyard's on the other side of town so she hasn't been able to visit my grandad and uncles' grave. It was my grandad's birthday last week and she was really upset that she couldn't go down to the grave to wish him a happy birthday. Not so much of a concern with her brothers and sister but they're buried in a number of different cemeteries that she knows there's 0 chance she could visit. She doesn't drive so she would have to get a lift from someone anyway. She knows they're being looked after by spouses though and is really upset that she can't do the same.


  • #5628
    Xertz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭Xertz


    podgeandrodge wrote: »
    It's less about the km I think, and more that they will say you can't go to places where there are mass congregations like parks etc.

    All making it 5km would do is open Dublin, Cork and other cities entirely. You’ve a lot on population in certain 5km radii and none in others.


  • #5629
    wakka12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    Brazil now has the most patients in ICU in the world after the US.
    8.3k
    Wonder how their healthcare is managing at the moment, havnt heard any horror stories as yet


  • #5630
    Gregor Samsa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,140 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    Spencer Brown wrote: »
    This is the case in Ireland, people aren't allowed to shop wherever they feel like.

    That's not the same as having to shop at the one closest to them at all. If I had to shop at the one closest to me, I'd be limited to a Spar. As it stands, I can also go to my local Tesco, Dunnes, Lidl or Aldi with absolutely no issue at the moment. There's no hard and fast restriction on how far you can travel for food or medicine shopping at present - it's down to doing what's reasonable. There's some people that have to travel 20km to their nearest shop, and that's fine to do if that's the situation you're in. For me, I (rightly) wouldn't be allowed travel 20km to the Dunnes or Lidl in the next nearest town to me, because it would be unnecessary as my town has plenty of supermarkets. But there's people who live 20km from me that can (rightly) come here to shop at any one of the supermarkets we have.


  • #5631
    owlbethere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,329 ✭✭✭owlbethere


    The restrictions are in place to slow down the spread and bring the numbers down considerably. It will all help us to resume to some sort of normality when community transmissions is low and hammer down with contract tracing for cases.

    If the numbers are not low enough for contact tracing to be effective, we will be left with one of two options:

    1)continue as we are
    2) fcuk it all and let the virus spread. This one is going to be disasterous. I know it's something that many people here would love. Let the virus rip through the population but the effects will be awful. Many businesses probably won't survive because they will be too much people out sick or dead. Then there's people with underlying conditions. It's not fair to kill young adults with diabetes, or CF, or obesity or other conditions. We also have a population where childhood obesity is on the rise. I would worry there for that aspect.


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  • #5632
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    s1ippy wrote: »
    The WHO has asserted the same thing:
    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/04/25/us/who-immunity-antibodies-covid-19/index.html
    https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-who-clarification-of-their-statement-on-26-04-20-about-immunity-passports/
    We do not have enough evidence to suggest that having the virus confers immunity against future strains and there are many examples of people who have seemingly recovered getting infected again.


    Take a look at this study for more information on reinfection and the immune system getting badly damaged due to Killer T Cells attacking the body or Cytokine storms which impact the tissue in the body.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3899649/


    It makes no difference to me if you believe it or not, but it is important for those of us who want to avoid getting infected. When this virus is so new we have no idea what it reduces the average lifespan of healthy people by. I'd imagine we'll be seeing that in the next six months or so if people are hell-bent on "returning to normal" but count my family out of that exercise in harakiri thank you.

    If the virus is one where re-infection is common it will become something that we have to live with and return to a degree of normality. Life cannot continue as we are now indefinitely
    The message from the WHO was we don't know enough to infer immunity yet so don't be putting all our hope in immunity passport. The likelihood is that most people who have had this will be partially or fully immune, and that those who have had mild illness will have no significant long term impacts.
    There is no evidence that there is widespread reinfection anywhere. What evidence there is does not really distinguish between re-activation and re-infection, meaning the may actually be zero cases of re-infection


  • #5633
    Gretas Gonna Get Ya!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Gretas Gonna Get Ya!


    hmmm wrote: »
    The quality controls for any Chines vaccine would have to meet EU standards to be made available here, so yes. Much of our medication already comes from China, they have a well-developed and well-audited pharma sector.

    I expect by this time next year the entire world will be desperate to get a vaccine.

    Am I right in saying the Chinese can test vaccines on monkeys, which are 99.9% genetically identical to humans... but in the west, we are only able to test on mice and rats?

    This could be part of the reason why the Chinese are confident of creating the vaccine faster than everyone else, if true?

    The leap from animal trials to human, is surely less complicated when going from a monkey rather a mouse/rat...

    Western experts do not think you can safely produce a vaccine in the timeframe that the Chinese are suggesting. This is why I was referring to quality controls.


  • #5634
    begbysback
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,910 ✭✭✭begbysback


    podgeandrodge wrote: »
    It's less about the km I think, and more that they will say you can't go to places where there are mass congregations like parks etc.

    But people can go to parks and practice social distancing, the restrictions on group gatherings could remain to some extent, and still allow people their freedom.


  • #5635
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://unherd.com/2020/04/which-epidemiologist-do-you-believe/

    Apologies if posted before. Good article, and the video interviews linked are interesting as well.

    I find both viewpoints persuasive even though they are basically opposites.


  • #5636
    wakka12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    Deleted User wrote: »
    If the virus is one where re-infection is common it will become something that we have to live with and return to a degree of normality. Life cannot continue as we are now indefinitely
    The message from the WHO was we don't know enough to infer immunity yet so don't be putting all our hope in immunity passport. The likelihood is that most people who have had this will be partially or fully immune, and that those who have had mild illness will have no significant long term impacts.
    There is no evidence that there is widespread reinfection anywhere. What evidence there is does not really distinguish between re-activation and re-infection, meaning the may actually be zero cases of re-infection

    Well, I think it will depend on the person. There is evidence of a number of people who had a mild illness creating almost undetectable levels of antibodies

    6% of patients in this study developed no antibodies
    https://www.businessinsider.com/study-recovered-coronavirus-patients-antibodies-2020-4?r=US&IR=T

    So the immunity passport thing will need to be assessed on a case by case basis, just having had tested positive for the virus is not a guarantee of immunity for everyone.


  • #5637
    owlbethere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,329 ✭✭✭owlbethere


    It's time Tony and the health team throws this east, south, west nonsense aside and start narrowing it down to towns and villages. Maybe it will encourage the guideline breakers to take this more seriously. That this could hit any town or village.


  • #5638
    timsey tiger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,768 ✭✭✭timsey tiger


    Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »
    Am I right in saying the Chinese can test vaccines on monkeys, which are 99.9% genetically identical to humans... but in the west, we are only able to test on mice and rats?

    This could be part of the reason why the Chinese are confident of creating the vaccine faster than everyone else, if true?

    The leap from animal trials to human, is surely less complicated when going from a monkey rather a mouse/rat...

    Western experts do not think you can safely produce a vaccine in the timeframe that the Chinese are suggesting. This is why I was referring to quality controls.

    Doesn't seem to be an issue either way, since in UK they have already or are just about to start trailing on humans.


  • #5639
    owlbethere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,329 ✭✭✭owlbethere


    I'm just after thinking of another consequence of this whole entire mess.

    How many young adults here planned for their deaths or a burial slot? Not many I would imagine. If the virus is allowed rip through society it will leave many surviving people with debt that they didn't plan for paying off funeral directors.


  • #5640
    timsey tiger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,768 ✭✭✭timsey tiger


    Heard Michael McDowell spouting on about easing restrictions, the economic impacts and the quality of information being provided, blaa blaa blaa. Things he has no particular competence in beyond the next person in line at the supermarket.

    When Pat Kenny asked him about our inability to regulate the movement of day trippers from the North (a legal question for a former attorney general), surprise surprise he had nothing of any use to offer. He made some trite comment about the impracticality of questioning people crossing the border.

    One would have to question his use as a member of the seanad.


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  • #5641
    timsey tiger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,768 ✭✭✭timsey tiger


    owlbethere wrote: »
    It's time Tony and the health team throws this east, south, west nonsense aside and start narrowing it down to towns and villages. Maybe it will encourage the guideline breakers to take this more seriously. That this could hit any town or village.

    Have they even defined what the west is, is it Connacht, is Clare in the West or South, Wexford in East or South?


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