Covid19 Part XVI- 21,983 in ROI (1,339 deaths) 3,881 in NI (404 deaths)(05/05)Read OP

Xertz · 27-04-2020 11:05AM

jay0109 wrote: »

Nurse just texted in to Sean O'Rourke show to say staff in her hospital were disgusted this weekend to see a substantial increase in the numbers presenting to A&E as a result of drink related injuries i.e. house parties

You’d wonder actually do we ever assess the real economic cost of drunk and disorderly stuff here in Ireland, in the U.K. or in countries with similar binge drinking cultures?

The load on A&Es in normal times caused by drunks and drugged up party animals is astronomical. I know I’ve had the misfortune of having to spend a night in the Mater ED with an elderly relative and it was completely fine, if a bit busy, until about 11:30-midnight when the zombie apocalypse arrived. Drunks everywhere. Endless injuries all of which were to do with that. People with reactions to drugs etc etc. There were fights IN the A&E !!

We are probably spending a significant % of our health budget on it and we are certainly reducing other people’s chances by denying them rapid access to A&E because they’re clogged with drunks.

This period of lockdown would be a good opportunity to carry out a serious study on the costs as we’ve a direct comparison of the system at low load, probably for the only time ever in its history.

is_that_so · 27-04-2020 11:06AM

So it's the HSE this week as baddies! Normality restored!

Jinglejangle69 · 27-04-2020 11:07AM

Xertz wrote: »

You’d wonder actually do we ever assess the real economic cost of drunk and disorderly stuff here in Ireland, in the U.K. or in countries with similar binge drinking cultures?

The load on A&Es in normal times caused by drunks and drugged up party animals is astronomical. I know I’ve had the misfortune of having to spend a night in the Mater ED with an elderly relative and it was completely fine, if a bit busy, until about 11:30-midnight when the zombie apocalypse arrived. Drunks everywhere. Endless injuries all of which were to do with that. People with reactions to drugs etc etc. There were fights IN the A&E !!

We are probably spending a significant % of our health budget on it and we are certainly reducing other people’s chances by denying them rapid access to A&E because they’re clogged with drunks.

And we have people blaming Simon Harris for people waiting on trolleys.

Personal responsibility is gone these days.

froog · 27-04-2020 11:08AM

ireland are now 10th in deaths per capita, taking out the micro states, we are 7th.

Tokyo · 27-04-2020 11:09AM

Mod: @rovers_runner - don't post in the thread again.

KrustyUCC · 27-04-2020 11:10AM

Ger Roe wrote: »

There can't be any reward if the criteria for issuing a reward is not met, even if it is just because of 'the few who take the piss'.

There is a direct negative effect associated with people not observing the restrictions - pissing off the majority who are observing, is not the worst effect, there are more deadly consequences to be considered.

That's not going to wash really

You can't get more complicance out of those already sticking to the restrictions

Only so long you can keep saying we're doing so so well, flattening the curve, hospital cases down, ICU cases down, R0 number below 1 but lads it's not good enough

Here's another, 2,3,4 weeks

Then repeat

Ger Roe · 27-04-2020 11:10AM

Xertz wrote: »

You’d wonder actually do we ever assess the real economic cost of drunk and disorderly stuff here in Ireland, in the U.K. or in countries with similar binge drinking cultures?

The load on A&Es in normal times caused by drunks and drugged up party animals is astronomical. I know I’ve had the misfortune of having to spend a night in the Mater ED with an elderly relative and it was completely fine, if a bit busy, until about 11:30-midnight when the zombie apocalypse arrived. Drunks everywhere. Endless injuries all of which were to do with that. People with reactions to drugs etc etc. There were fights IN the A&E !!

We are probably spending a significant % of our health budget on it and we are certainly reducing other people’s chances by denying them rapid access to A&E because they’re clogged with drunks.

This period of lockdown would be a good opportunity to carry out a serious study on the costs as we’ve a direct comparison of the system at low load, probably for the only time ever in its history.

All true. The biggest cost and resource drain on the HSE annually is for treatment associated with two drugs - Nicotine and Alcohol. Basically self selected and then inflicted upon society.

Roger_007 · 27-04-2020 11:10AM

Xertz wrote: »

To be fair, we are doing a lot of tests per capita compared to most countries.

It’s inadequate the world over, with very few exceptions and I think we will get there here and in most of Europe relatively rapidly.

Rolling out a vast testing system, when everyone is competing for the same resources, in a matter of 8 weeks is actually a remarkable achievement. The labs here and elsewhere need to be given as much support as possible both in terms of resources and morale too.

In normal times you’re looking at something that probably would have taken a couple of years to achieve being compressed into barely 8 weeks.

I’m not sure what it is we hope to achieve by widespread testing. If you get a negative result what does it mean:
- It could be a false negative caused by improper processing.
- It could be that you have had Covid-19 but are now recovered.
- It could be you haven’t had it......yet.
- It could be that you have it but there is not enough virus in the upper respiratory tract to show up.
- It could be that the taking of the test was botched.

I’m not sure what we are trying to achieve by this clamour for testing.

27-04-2020 11:11AM

s1ippy wrote: »

The HSE live service is there to provide that information to people. With all due respect and in the most unparliamentary language f you because people have a right to seek medical information on behalf of their loved ones. Do you expect people to just wait for them to die without having any idea about their condition? You're deluded and incredibly cruel.

"Vast majority" you refer to who recover being four in every five, but it confers no immunity with fourteen percent being at risk of reinfection and the second time their body won't have the strength to withstand the impact of the infection.

If nursing homes weren't being so evasive with their information people wouldn't have to be repeatedly calling them in a panic about their loved ones and it's shocking that they have to call like that and that families are being lied to or misled.

Fixed broken link

I refer you to me second post on this matter rather than address your blatant misrepresentation of what I said.

And your assumption that there is no immunity is not supported by evidence or your links for that matter

Funsterdelux · 27-04-2020 11:11AM

jay0109 wrote: »

Nurse just texted in to Sean O'Rourke show to say staff in her hospital were disgusted this weekend to see a substantial increase in the numbers presenting to A&E as a result of drink related injuries i.e. house parties

Im in a rural location but have a lot of neighbours close by, bordering our site and across the roads. One of them behind us had a BBQ and drinks till late on Saturday with extended family (siblings and partners with kids from both families.) I wouldnt have noticed only I saw a girl with long hair go into their house and theres only boys in that family.

Its annoying because they seem to be keeping to the rest of the restrictions as far as I can see.(I m not nosey Im just outside working most of the time :rolleyes:)
I can just imagine this being repeated all over the country to some extent.

Stheno · 27-04-2020 11:14AM

Xertz wrote: »

To be fair, we are doing a lot of tests per capita compared to most countries.

It’s inadequate the world over, with very few exceptions and I think we will get there here and in most of Europe relatively rapidly.

Rolling out a vast testing system, when everyone is competing for the same resources, in a matter of 8 weeks is actually a remarkable achievement. The labs here and elsewhere need to be given as much support as possible both in terms of resources and morale too.

In normal times you’re looking at something that probably would have taken a couple of years to achieve being compressed into barely 8 weeks.

Don't ask people to give up their lives for weeks on end, and then have the excuse that they have to continue doing so due to a failure of government/public bodies.

And on top of that "Please help us raise a million euro to increase test capacity"

FFS

polesheep · 27-04-2020 11:15AM

is_that_so wrote: »

I think they said that 66% of such residential settings are not affected and it very doubtful they'd drop someone with an infection into one. While there will be time for a forthright review, what is being done now , belatedly or otherwise, is of much greater relevance to how the disease is controlled and how the unwinding of restrictions work.

I'm sure that under no circumstances would they knowingly put a Covid-19 patient into a nursing home. The fact is they didn't test patients before they moved them into nursing homes. That's indefensible.

Ger Roe · 27-04-2020 11:18AM

Stheno wrote: »

Don't ask people to give up their lives for weeks on end, and then have the excuse that they have to continue doing so due to a failure of government/public bodies.

And on top of that "Please help us raise a million euro to increase test capacity"

FFS

'Don't ask people to give up their lives for weeks on end .....' or Don't ask people to give up their lives?....

There is a reason why the restrictions are being imposed. Ref/Source = China, Spain, Italy, Germany, USA... etc.

JP Liz V1 · 27-04-2020 11:18AM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

I agree it's not just here where nursing homes were badly hit and given the setting once a virus gets in it'll run rampant.

But there were reports yesterday of hospitals discharging patients to nursing homes. Now if that's true and it might not be then it's a complete mess up by the HSE.

Is it returning Covid recovered patients back to nursing homes or putting new patients in nursing homes recovered from other illnesses so not Covid tested?

bennyl10 · 27-04-2020 11:18AM

froog wrote: »

ireland are now 10th in deaths per capita, taking out the micro states, we are 7th.

we are also counting all deaths possibly by corona, and are one the few to be counting care homes.

Those death tables arent reliable in any sense yet

hmmm · 27-04-2020 11:20AM

All the vaccine candidates and their status - the slowest moving, most important graph.

https://vac-lshtm.shinyapps.io/ncov_vaccine_landscape/

Interesting how one of the Chinese vaccines is doing nearly simultaneous phase I and II

Inquitus · 27-04-2020 11:20AM

froog wrote: »

ireland are now 10th in deaths per capita, taking out the micro states, we are 7th.

Our record keeping is alot better than others, the UK only considers hospital deaths, we consider deaths in hospital, at home and in nursing homes. The UK rate is expected to be double the rate they present daily, the times did an analysis from the ONS on it.

Xertz · 27-04-2020 11:23AM

Stheno wrote: »

Don't ask people to give up their lives for weeks on end, and then have the excuse that they have to continue doing so due to a failure of government/public bodies.

And on top of that "Please help us raise a million euro to increase test capacity"

FFS

I’m really not getting this response.

What’s going on in Ireland seems to be exactly the same as what’s going on in all of our peer countries.

The number of tests per capita being carried out is extremely high relative to what’s been achieved in similar countries and rolling out capacity isn’t easy.

Every healthcare system on the planet is trying to buy the same lab equipment from the same suppliers who have limited production capacity. We have already sourced our own reagents produced locally, following work done led by scientists in UCC and CUH a few weeks ago.

There are also limits to how fast you can get scientists and techs identified, recruited, trained and so on.

As for the fundraiser. The anglophone world tends to do that all the time in combination with state funding. Pulling any resources in from civil society makes a lot of sense.

The state is throwing huge amounts of money at the health system. On a normal basis we spend more per capita than most of the EU and we aren’t exactly penny pinching now. There would appear to be astronomical expenditure going on.

In a crisis pull in money anywhere and everywhere and that includes fund raising drives.

dfx- · 27-04-2020 11:26AM

KrustyUCC wrote: »

That's not going to wash really

You can't get more complicance out of those already sticking to the restrictions

Only so long you can keep saying we're doing so so well, flattening the curve, hospital cases down, ICU cases down, R0 number below 1 but lads it's not good enough

Here's another, 2,3,4 weeks

Then repeat

Ultimately, this is the problem. Reintroduce it too slow and people will also start to try to get around it. That's not an Irish thing either. But you have to show the way forward beyond restrictions.

There aren't any other restrictions you can bring in either, it's just more of the same and hope it improves. Blame whoever you like, but that is not going to work.

Mitch Connor · 27-04-2020 11:29AM

dfx- wrote: »

Ultimately, this is the problem. Reintroduce it too slow and people will also start to try to get around it. That's not an Irish thing either. But you have to show the way forward beyond restrictions.

There aren't any other restrictions you can bring in either, it's just more of the same and hope it improves. Blame whoever you like, but that is not going to work.

There are more restrictions - like the ones Spain brought in. Far tighter than was done in ireland.

Kids not allowed out at all.
No exercise allowance.
Can only shop in most local shop to you.

We've been fairly free-moving by comparison.

s1ippy · 27-04-2020 11:29AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I refer you to me second post on this matter rather than address your blatant misrepresentation of what I said.

And your assumption that there is no immunity is not supported by evidence or your links for that matter

The WHO has asserted the same thing:
https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/04/25/us/who-immunity-antibodies-covid-19/index.html
https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-who-clarification-of-their-statement-on-26-04-20-about-immunity-passports/
We do not have enough evidence to suggest that having the virus confers immunity against future strains and there are many examples of people who have seemingly recovered getting infected again.

"It is most likely that the virus is reactivated or reinfected because of [an individual's] insufficient immune function," Roh explained. "In the case of reinfections, it's possible that a person recovers from the virus and then comes into contact with other asymptomatic carriers of the virus in the community."

Take a look at this study for more information on reinfection and the immune system getting badly damaged due to Killer T Cells attacking the body or Cytokine storms which impact the tissue in the body.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3899649/

It makes no difference to me if you believe it or not, but it is important for those of us who want to avoid getting infected. When this virus is so new we have no idea what it reduces the average lifespan of healthy people by. I'd imagine we'll be seeing that in the next six months or so if people are hell-bent on "returning to normal" but count my family out of that exercise in harakiri thank you.

Spencer Brown · 27-04-2020 11:30AM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

There are more restrictions - like the ones Spain brought in. Far tighter than was done in ireland.

Kids not allowed out at all.
No exercise allowance.
Can only shop in most local shop to you.

We've been fairly free-moving by comparison.

This is the case in Ireland, people aren't allowed to shop wherever they feel like.

yourdeadwright · 27-04-2020 11:30AM

froog wrote: »

ireland are now 10th in deaths per capita, taking out the micro states, we are 7th.

You should change that to Ireland is now 10th in RECORDED deaths per capita,

A lot of countries are and will be a lot worse off but not recording things correctly ,

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! · 27-04-2020 11:31AM

Ger Roe wrote: »

All true. The biggest cost and resource drain on the HSE annually is for treatment associated with two drugs - Nicotine and Alcohol. Basically self selected and then inflicted upon society.

Yeah, but sure the government will be pressured into pumping billions back into the failing pub sector to resurrect it after this... under the guise of saving jobs and tax revenue. Forget about the fact they are destroying lives and costing the taxpayer a fortune in so many other ways!

Say a word against them, and you're on your high horse about people having a harmless old pint in their local.

We debated letting the banks go under... they were sucking the life out of the state... why not let a few of the pubs go under?

begbysback · 27-04-2020 11:32AM

jay0109 wrote: »

Nurse just texted in to Sean O'Rourke show to say staff in her hospital were disgusted this weekend to see a substantial increase in the numbers presenting to A&E as a result of drink related injuries i.e. house parties

Did he verify the source, sounds ridiculous, it’s like something a lockdown merchant would send in.

dfx- · 27-04-2020 11:33AM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

There are more restrictions - like the ones Spain brought in. Far tighter than was done in ireland.

Kids not allowed out at all.
No exercise allowance.
Can only shop in most local shop to you.

We've been fairly free-moving by comparison.

There are not reasonable restrictions left to go ahead with - you have to take the public with you. As bad as Ireland is, it is nowhere near Spain levels.

bettyoleary · 27-04-2020 11:34AM

polesheep wrote: »

There are Irish born and educated scientists working to develop a vaccine in UK labs and labs all over the world. Think of that!

Yes and I'm very proud of them, that's my point. I was born in the UK to Irish parents and its very disheartening to read comments on here anti UK when we have plenty of room for criticism closer to home before we start extending it to UK. I trained as a nurse in the UK and have spent my working life in Ireland looking after my Irish citizens. When somebody on here commented on the devastating number of deaths in the UK and the OP below quoted the lines from the song by Queen "another one" it was extremely upsetting. Especilly when you consider a large part of those who have sucummed to this will be Irish in the UK.

KrustyUCC · 27-04-2020 11:35AM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

There are more restrictions - like the ones Spain brought in. Far tighter than was done in ireland.

Kids not allowed out at all.
No exercise allowance.
Can only shop in most local shop to you.

We've been fairly free-moving by comparison.

Who's going to enforce those restrictions?

We don't have enough guards

Ireland is policed by consent by in large

Ger Roe · 27-04-2020 11:36AM

dfx- wrote: »

Ultimately, this is the problem. Reintroduce it too slow and people will also start to try to get around it. That's not an Irish thing either. But you have to show the way forward beyond restrictions.

There aren't any other restrictions you can bring in either, it's just more of the same and hope it improves. Blame whoever you like, but that is not going to work.

There are certainly more restrictions that could be brought in - but in fairness the gov is reluctant to go there. However, it could still be done, if it was really needed.

The way forward will be shown - a pathway document is to be released this week. I am sure it will be a difficult document to produce, particularly when we have virtually no clue as to what is going to happen in terms of the cycle of the virus and very limited means of dealing with it. Social compliance is our best defense, but there is an attention span limit on that, apparently - until everyone is hit by a direct virus experience either to themselves or a relative and then they will be strictly self isolating by choice.

But no matter what the pathway plan is, some people won't be happy until they are back dancing in the streets and on the graves of those who fall by the wayside. The difficult balance act is to keep the wayside fallers at an 'acceptable' level.

Would anyone loosing patience at the moment like to be responsible for that choice?

walshb · 27-04-2020 11:37AM

Ok, so what are the predictions May 5?

I think the 2k zone increased to 5

Over 70s can leave house to exercise....

Some businesses advised they can open with measures in place......

Covid19 Part XVI- 21,983 in ROI (1,339 deaths) 3,881 in NI (404 deaths)(05/05)Read OP

Comments