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Covid19 Part XVI- 21,983 in ROI (1,339 deaths) 3,881 in NI (404 deaths)(05/05)Read OP

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Comments

  • #4442
    jibber5000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 349 ✭✭jibber5000


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    But is there actual evidence that this virus causes clotting issues though? Or is it just a few anecdotal reports?

    There's no published evidence from trials.

    But all covid blood tests include a d-dimer level - a blood test taken when a clot is suspected. It is always raised in Covid patients. Worsening d-dimer levels are associated with poorer prognosis.

    https://www.hematology.org/covid-19/covid-19-and-coagulopathy


  • #4443
    Tokyo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,656 ✭✭✭✭Tokyo


    Unelected CMO wrote: »
    Source?

    Mod: @Unelected CMO - nearly every one of your posts thus far is of this nature. Posters are not obliged to provide a source. Post on the topic at hand in future.


  • #4444
    Wombatman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,349 ✭✭✭Wombatman


    Hard to argue with this. We fcuked up. All the signs were there that nursing homes should be the main focus of resources, but sadly we missed them.

    Early on we were testing hypochondriacs with colds in the general public, while the virus was having a field day in care homes.
    The neglect of nursing homes during the coronavirus pandemic crisis has had disastrous results.

    On February 28th, Nursing Homes Ireland (NHI) which represents some 80 per cent of private nursing homes, sought urgent guidance from the Health Service Executive. Alarmed at developments abroad, NHI decided, on March 6th, to limit visitors to one person, with exceptions for residents at the end of life. Four days later, the State’s chief medical officer, Dr Tony Holohan, said this was unnecessary at that stage, leading to significant flak for nursing home owners from residents’ families.

    On March 17th, HSE guidance to nursing homes was still talking about “visitor notices advising of hand hygiene measures before, during and after visiting” and only mentioned “appropriate visitor restrictions in the event of an outbreak”.

    On March 30th, the Health Protection Surveillance Centre issued new guidance to residential facilities saying that testing was not necessary among contacts of a confirmed case unless patients were symptomatic. Staff were advised to wear full personal protective equipment (PPE) when dealing with a suspected or confirmed case, but if they could keep one metre away, it was not necessary.

    By that time many nursing homes did not have access to adequate supplies of PPE. The elderly who were not well enough for independent living found themselves at the back of the queue.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/we-have-failed-our-older-and-more-vulnerable-citizens-1.4237079


  • #4445
    Ger Roe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,196 ✭✭✭Ger Roe


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    But is there actual evidence that this virus causes clotting issues though? Or is it just a few anecdotal reports?

    Dr Colm Henry mentioned the clotting aspect at one of the press updates this week. While there may be some virus association with clotting, he was not yet sure on the details - early days etc. He did say however that clotting was a known risk with the ICU interventions that have to be done - not specifically a virus treatment issue, but a standard ICU treatment risk.


  • #4446
    Unelected CMO
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 35 ✭Unelected CMO


    mike_ie wrote: »
    Mod: @Unelected CMO - nearly every one of your posts thus far is of this nature. Posters are not obliged to provide a source. Post on the topic at hand in future.

    Can I reply to this in thread? Just checking as don’t want to get in trouble but I have a reason for asking for sources.


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  • #4447
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    jibber5000 wrote: »
    It is undoubtedly helpful but can be very deceptive in Covid.

    A person may have a good oxygen saturation on the pulse oximeter. An arterial blood gas is then taken however which reveals that the oxygen levels in their blood are very low.

    In short, if you're short of breath and symptomatic I wouldn't solely rely on pulse oximeter.

    Thats the point I made earlier re patients going to a/e with SOB and discovered to have lower oxygen levels then would be expected for someone talking. As regards having a pulseometer, they are handy to have, I use them in work along with a bp monitor if someone collapses, to give better info to gp or ambulance but it is about knowing how to use it.


  • #4448
    jibber5000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 349 ✭✭jibber5000


    khalessi wrote: »
    Thats the point I made earlier re patients going to a/e with SOB and discovered to have lower oxygen levels then would be expected for someone talking. As regards having a pulseometer, they are handy to have, I use them in work along with a bp monitor if someone collapses, to give better info to gp or ambulance but it is about knowing how to use it.

    I agree. I'm just saying an ABG needs to be taken on all patients with worsening symptoms.

    The pulse oximeter is a good guide just doesn't give the full picture.


  • #4449
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    jibber5000 wrote: »
    I agree. I'm just saying an ABG needs to be taken on all patients with worsening symptoms.

    The pulse oximeter is a good guide just doesn't give the full picture.

    Agreed but ABG would be considered on hospital admission and a low oxygen level would not be considered as giving whole picture.


  • #4450
    owlbethere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,329 ✭✭✭owlbethere


    jibber5000 wrote: »
    It is undoubtedly helpful but can be very deceptive in Covid.

    A person may have a good oxygen saturation on the pulse oximeter. An arterial blood gas is then taken however which reveals that the oxygen levels in their blood are very low.

    In short, if you're short of breath and symptomatic I wouldn't solely rely on pulse oximeter.

    It was a doctor in New York recommending an oxyimeter for people. Surely he wouldn't have recommended an oximeter for people at home if the only way to pick up on the low oxygen was from a blood test in the hospital. Surely the oximeters in hospitals would be picking up on the low oxygen?


  • #4451
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,249 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    I just ordered a pulse oximeter .I hope I never need it but it might be just the item needed to keep the family safe and alert us to low O2 saturation


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  • #4452
    Deeper Blue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,439 ✭✭✭Deeper Blue


    Wombatman wrote: »
    Hard to argue with this. We fcuked up. All the signs were there that nursing homes should be the main focus of resources, but sadly we missed them.

    Early on we were testing hypochondriacs with colds in the general public, while the virus was having a field day in care homes.

    That's a very sobering article. We had so much warning from what was happening in the likes of Italy too, no excuses. Obviously some facilities were going to get it but it should be nowhere near as widespread as it is today.


  • #4453
    jibber5000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 349 ✭✭jibber5000


    owlbethere wrote: »
    It was a doctor in New York recommending an oxyimeter for people. Surely he wouldn't have recommended an oximeter for people at home if the only way to pick up on the low oxygen was from a blood test in the hospital. Surely the oximeters in hospitals would be picking up on the low oxygen?

    No he's right.

    My point is that a patient who is sick at home may look at the oximeter and it's quite good. In reality, the amount of oxygen in the blood is very low, which is the critical issue.

    If you feel really short of breath and are debating whether to go to a hospital, you just can't fully rely on the oximeter.


  • #4454
    Jin luk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 389 ✭✭Jin luk


    khalessi wrote: »
    A lot of people have been following it since January and it is concerning that just as they think they have seen it all that damn little virus throws another spanne in the workslike the clotting technique or low oxygen, ability to mutate, on the one hand fascinating for those who study novel diseases but on the other frustrating when trying to make a vaccine.


    Their has never been a vaccine for a coronavirus before and in my opinion their wont be 1 for this either we will learn to live with it. People putting all their hope on a vaccine is ridiculous it isnt going to happen. And thats not being morbid its just being real. Social distancing is the norm now, deal with it.


  • #4455
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,233 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    The WHO has again repeated it's warning to governments that there is no evidence patients who have had the disease are immune

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/coronavirus-no-evidence-that-recovered-patients-are-immune-says-who-1.4238216?mode=amp

    Meanwhile the US recorded record number of new cases in one day yesterday at just over 38,000. The death toll dropped back a little to 1,998.


  • #4456
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    Jin luk wrote: »
    Their has never been a vaccine for a coronavirus before and in my opinion their wont be 1 for this either we will learn to live with it. People putting all their hope on a vaccine is ridiculous it isnt going to happen. And thats not being morbid its just being real. Social distancing is the norm now deal with it.

    Thank you Jin for finishing that post with now deal with it, I am sensing distress. But things change all the time and hopefully one day they will succeed. NOwhere in the quote you used did I say choose a way to deal with it. Vaccines are hard enough to make but for a coronavirus it is the holy grail.


  • #4457
    DevilsHaircut
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 524 ✭✭✭DevilsHaircut


    'At Mount Sinai, nephrologists noticed kidney dialysis catheters getting plugged with clots. Pulmonologists monitoring COVID-19 patients on mechanical ventilators could see portions of lungs were oddly bloodless. Neurosurgeons confronted a surge in their usual caseload of strokes due to blood clots, the age of victims skewing younger, with at least half testing positive for the virus.'

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-blood/alarmed-as-covid-patients-blood-thickened-new-york-doctors-try-new-treatments-idUSKCN22421Z


  • #4458
    Jin luk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 389 ✭✭Jin luk


    khalessi wrote: »
    Thank you Jin for finishing that post with now deal with it, I am sensing distress. But things change all the time and hopefully one day they will succeed. NOwhere in the quote you used did I say choose a way to deal with it. Vaccines are hard enough to make but for a coronavirus it is the holy grail.

    It was more of a reply to everyone else whos putting all their eggs in 1 basket for a vaccine not just yourself :)


  • #4459
    owlbethere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,329 ✭✭✭owlbethere


    jibber5000 wrote: »
    No he's right.

    My point is that a patient who is sick at home may look at the oximeter and it's quite good. In reality, the amount of oxygen in the blood is very low, which is the critical issue.

    If you feel really short of breath and are debating whether to go to a hospital, you just can't fully rely on the oximeter.

    I understand what you're saying. A blood test will give a better picture of the oxygen levels in the blood.


  • #4460
    podgeandrodge
    Site Banned Posts: 5,975 ✭✭✭podgeandrodge


    Unelected CMO wrote: »
    Can I reply to this in thread? Just checking as don’t want to get in trouble but I have a reason for asking for sources.

    I wish there was no-one on this thread that only joined in April 2020.


  • #4461
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    Jin luk wrote: »
    It was more of a reply to everyone else whos putting all their eggs in 1 basket for a vaccine not just yourself :)

    Vaccine would be nice but I am not relying on it


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  • #4462
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 78,458 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Unelected CMO wrote: »
    Can I reply to this in thread? Just checking as don’t want to get in trouble but I have a reason for asking for sources.
    No you cannot. Do not respond to any mod warnings in-thread. Contact mike via PM if you wish to discuss further


  • #4463
    Drumpot
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,306 ✭✭✭✭Drumpot


    khalessi wrote: »
    Can buy them online and they come into Aldi and Lidl when they sell the bp cuffs etc. Handy yoke to have. Interesting reading the med professions disbelieve at some of the oxygen levels, so low the person should be on a vent but they are sitting talking to the doctor, it is an interesting anomaly alright.

    Got an Oximeter and BP monitor back in February which I record frequently along with my Temp (so I can compare if they go down). I think of them more as devices that help me give my doctor or hospital better idea of how I am doing if I need to contact them.

    I’ve seen it said many time’s that most healthcare professions quite often take “I am feeling terrible doctor” as more then likely a mild condition as a patient describes more symptoms. I take it that being able to quote these recorded statistics as a much better indicator if I need to get medical treatment.


  • #4464
    D.Q
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,054 ✭✭✭D.Q


    Wombatman wrote: »
    Hard to argue with this. We fcuked up. All the signs were there that nursing homes should be the main focus of resources, but sadly we missed them.

    Early on we were testing hypochondriacs with colds in the general public, while the virus was having a field day in care homes.



    https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/we-have-failed-our-older-and-more-vulnerable-citizens-1.4237079

    My mother works in a private nursing home and they were only provided with masks last week.

    Theres some form of segregation between areas in the home itself but not really.

    The nursing home are also now deliberately short staffing themselves so they can benefit from the free HSE help.

    Health should never be for profit its an absolute disgrace.


  • #4465
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 78,458 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Thread title updated to include "probables" in ROI figures


  • #4466
    speckle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,251 ✭✭✭speckle


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    I just ordered a pulse oximeter .I hope I never need it but it might be just the item needed to keep the family safe and alert us to low O2 saturation
    please rember to clean it first and dispose of packaging safetly like one would do with their food shopping at moment. Mine which I got feb was made in Guandong and passes through many hands potentially before arriving into your hands.


  • #4467
    Gynoid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭Gynoid


    DevilsHaircut wrote: »
    'At Mount Sinai, nephrologists noticed kidney dialysis catheters getting plugged with clots. Pulmonologists monitoring COVID-19 patients on mechanical ventilators could see portions of lungs were oddly bloodless. Neurosurgeons confronted a surge in their usual caseload of strokes due to blood clots, the age of victims skewing younger, with at least half testing positive for the virus.'

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-blood/alarmed-as-covid-patients-blood-thickened-new-york-doctors-try-new-treatments-idUSKCN22421Z

    I wonder was any of this going on with SARS or MERS. Bewildering germ.


  • #4468
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Wombatman wrote: »
    Hard to argue with this. We fcuked up. All the signs were there that nursing homes should be the main focus of resources, but sadly we missed them.
    The focus was rightly on the community and according to Nolan it was two weeks before a case was reported in a home. In tandem with that the health system had its own issues, in PPE, potential capacity and in testing. There also seemed to be a somewhat blithe assumption that nursing homes would be able to respond as the main health system could. While many might be "good enough" in normal times clearly that wasn't going to work here. It's a hard lesson to learn, none more so for those who lost loved ones.


  • #4469
    igCorcaigh
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 12,481 Mod ✭✭✭✭igCorcaigh


    D.Q wrote: »

    Health should never be for profit its an absolute disgrace.

    We are more Boston than Berlin after all.

    I wonder how this experience will shape the future of our health system.

    Of course, policy must be remade and people must pressure the government to do so.

    Voters have to think carefully before snatching the tax break carrot.


  • #4470
    silverharp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,854 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    Vit D looking positive

    https://twitter.com/FatEmperor/status/1254006430203555840

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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  • #4471
    igCorcaigh
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 12,481 Mod ✭✭✭✭igCorcaigh


    Interesting, that vitamin D thing.

    Might be at least partially the cause behind BAME people being disproportionately affected, although other factors might be behind this too. Lot of BAME people working on the front line on the NHS in UK.

    I might go back to taking my 25mcg.


This discussion has been closed.
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