Covid19 Part XVI- 21,983 in ROI (1,339 deaths) 3,881 in NI (404 deaths)(05/05)Read OP

the.red.baron · 22-04-2020 04:00PM

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Eradication means a collapse in tourism. However it does mean your internal economy continues to function, so you can keep shops, pubs, restuarants and hotels open. Obviously employment in these sectors will decline, but the question is will it decline as much as if you have a series of rolling lockdowns.

Our tourism industry has also collapsed and the internal hospitality sector also.
We've seen a large number of shops and businesses go to the wall already.

In any case, NZ will have far lower deaths than us and unemployment may well be lower. Overall NZ's approach is far better than ours, no question about that.

We missed the boat on eradication a long time ago. And the Northern border complicates matters. We'd need the sign up of the DUP to go for full eradication.

is_that_so · 22-04-2020 04:01PM

joe_99 wrote: »

I give up. Don't even know where to begin with this post.

I'd say by not reading it!

hmmm · 22-04-2020 04:01PM

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

Strangely we managed to protect the island from a viral infection during the Foot and Mouth epidemic in 2001. That virus could spread for 2 to 3 kms in aerosol form, not the puny 2 meters of the present virus. But I suppose when cattle are threatened it's OK to close borders but when people are at risk... it's impossible.

During foot and mouth we culled affected animals. We also sent army snipers to eliminate all deer from the Cooley peninsula.

Are you advocating a similar approach for this virus?!

the.red.baron · 22-04-2020 04:02PM

hmmm wrote: »

During foot and mouth we culled affected animals. We also sent army snipers to eliminate all deer from the Cooley peninsula.

Are you advocating a similar approach for this virus?!

it would hard to argue against it at times

tobefrank321 · 22-04-2020 04:02PM

Drumpot wrote: »

I wouldnt subscribe to a New Zealand comparison to be honest. Apart from being an island, there really isn't much of a comparison to be made.

Economically, politicaly and geographically, the decisions New Zealand made were far easier to make, for their populations to follow quickly and for them to enforce. If we were an island in the middle of nowhere, thousands of miles from most of civilisation (but for one other country), then you might have a point.

Modern air travel has made the world a far smaller place. NZ before this had something like 2 million visitors a year. It only takes a handful to bring in covid19.

You can downplay NZ all you want, what they have achieved was a really good achievement and their leader deserves high praise.

If you don't think the NZ example applies, what about the Taiwanese one? 80 miles from the Chinese mainland with regular flights to and from there and elsewhere.

quokula · 22-04-2020 04:03PM

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Eradication means a collapse in tourism. However it does mean your internal economy continues to function, so you can keep shops, pubs, restuarants and hotels open. Obviously employment in these sectors will decline, but the question is will it decline as much as if you have a series of rolling lockdowns.

Our tourism industry has also collapsed and the internal hospitality sector also.
We've seen a large number of shops and businesses go to the wall already.

In any case, NZ will have far lower deaths than us and unemployment may well be lower. Overall NZ's approach is far better than ours, no question about that.

We missed the boat on eradication a long time ago. And the Northern border complicates matters. We'd need the sign up of the DUP to go for full eradication.

New Zealand has a quarter of our population density, has no land borders with any other country, is in the southern hemisphere which has so far been minimally effected, whether because of seasonality or otherwise, is in one of the most isolated locations on earth and before any of this happened, it was already top of the list as a safe haven in the event of a major global event.

Their government has done extremely well, without a doubt, but it was never remotely possible for Ireland to do the same given that we have a land border with the UK and we have so many of the primary global hotspots right on our doorstep, where many of our own citizens were already living or visiting when it started.

tobefrank321 · 22-04-2020 04:04PM

the.red.baron wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Another head in the sand merchant no doubt.

is_that_so · 22-04-2020 04:04PM

tobefrank321 wrote: »

We missed the boat on eradication a long time ago. And the Northern border complicates matters. We'd need the sign up of the DUP to go for full eradication.

To quote the CMO, they wanted to get it to behave so it could be managed. Eradication without treatments is ideal world, full control over where it goes is a far more realistic goal.

tobefrank321 · 22-04-2020 04:05PM

quokula wrote: »

New Zealand has a quarter of our population density, has no land borders with any other country, is in the southern hemisphere which has so far been minimally effected, whether because of seasonality or otherwise, is in one of the most isolated locations on earth and before any of this happened, it was already top of the list as a safe haven in the event of a major global event.

Their government has done extremely well, without a doubt, but it was never remotely possible for Ireland to do the same given that we have a land border with the UK and we have so many of the primary global hotspots right on our doorstep, where many of our own citizens were already living or visiting when it started.

Travellers from the UK going en masses to funerals here.

Sums up our laughably laissez faire "lockdown".

the.red.baron · 22-04-2020 04:05PM

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Modern air travel has made the world a far smaller place. NZ before this had something like 2 million visitors a year. It only takes a handful to bring in covid19.

You can downplay NZ all you want, what they have achieved was a really good achievement and their leader deserves high praise.

If you don't think the NZ example applies, what about the Taiwanese one? 80 miles from the Chinese mainland with regular flights to and from there and elsewhere.

3mil versus 11 mil just for comparison

how long can they stay locked down for is the question

the.red.baron · 22-04-2020 04:06PM

tobefrank321 wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Another head in the sand merchant no doubt.

its because they are upside down, you cant get it when you are upside down

New Home · 22-04-2020 04:07PM

nocoverart wrote: »

I'm only using flash with Bleach spray and Dettol wipes, not good enough?

The bleach spray probably yes (read the bottle, though) - my assumption here is that Flash is also a degreaser, I don't know what the concentration of bleach is in it. The wipes I wouldn't be so sure, it depends on what the disinfecting agent is - read the packet, it's the easiest way to find out.

El Weirdo wrote: »

There is more than one coronavirus. Dettol hasn't been tested on this particular one.

True, but I don't know how it affects the other types of coronavirus it's been tested on - if it acts like soap does (another bad example, I know) then you're ok. The antibacterial stuff, on the other hand, isn't going to help and people shouldn't trust it. Not all disinfectants act in the same way.

You might as well use the steam jet of a steam cleaner, then, making sure you get into all the nooks and crannies.

tobefrank321 · 22-04-2020 04:08PM

is_that_so wrote: »

To quote the CMO, they wanted to get it to behave so it could be managed. Eradication without treatments is ideal world, full control over where it goes is a far more realistic goal.

As others have pointed out we attempted to eradicate foot and mouth, but made zero effort to eradicate covid 19. Priorities couldn't be clearer.

the.red.baron · 22-04-2020 04:10PM

tobefrank321 wrote: »

As others have pointed out we attempted to eradicate foot and mouth, but made zero effort to eradicate covid 19. Priorities couldn't be clearer.

VAAAAACINE

BURNING

is_that_so · 22-04-2020 04:11PM

tobefrank321 wrote: »

As others have pointed out we attempted to eradicate foot and mouth, but made zero effort to eradicate covid 19. Priorities couldn't be clearer.

The approach to foot and mouth is known. How exactly do you eradicate an unknown pathogen?

tobefrank321 · 22-04-2020 04:11PM

the.red.baron wrote: »

3mil versus 11 mil just for comparison

how long can they stay locked down for is the question

9 million is the stat I saw.

The point I made was eradication means you can reopen and save some businesses.

We can argue geography, but you cannot argue with the desire to eradicate. We made no effort, none.

Our approach has been a complete failure from every possible angle.

munsterlegend · 22-04-2020 04:11PM

tobefrank321 wrote: »

As others have pointed out we attempted to eradicate foot and mouth, but made zero effort to eradicate covid 19. Priorities couldn't be clearer.

It’s a bit easier to control movement of animals to be fair. I don’t see cows going on skiing trips or being big into horse racing.

New Home · 22-04-2020 04:13PM

munsterlegend wrote: »

It’s a bit easier to control movement of animals to be fair. I don’t see cows going on skiing trips or being big into horse racing.

I know for a fact that they're completely against bullfights.

joe_99 · 22-04-2020 04:13PM

tobefrank321 wrote: »

As others have pointed out we attempted to eradicate foot and mouth, but made zero effort to eradicate covid 19. Priorities couldn't be clearer.

Read the posts above on how foot and mouth was eradicated. Not comparible.

Tony EH · 22-04-2020 04:13PM

We eradicated Foot and Mouth by slaughtering animals that showed signs of the disease.

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It's not really the same thing.

joe_99 · 22-04-2020 04:15PM

Tony EH wrote: »

We eradicated Foot and Mouth by slaughtering animals that showed signs of the disease.

It's not really the same thing.

Indeed. UK slaughtered 6million cows and sheep to eradicate that disease

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_United_Kingdom_foot-and-mouth_outbreak

Kermit.de.frog · 22-04-2020 04:15PM

https://twitter.com/joncoopertweets/status/1252723438562746368

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the.red.baron · 22-04-2020 04:16PM

Tony EH wrote: »

We eradicated Foot and Mouth by slaughtering animals that showed signs of the disease.

It's not really the same thing.

they killed any animal on a farm with a case if memory serves, given how easily spread it is

davedanon · 22-04-2020 04:16PM

I just want to applaud all the (undoubtedly world-class) experts on here, for finding the time to post on a talkboard in addition to the trojan scientific, political, logistic, medical and administrative work that they MUST also be carrying out on behalf of a grateful nation, as evidenced by the sheer authoritative weight and profundity of the opinions they express on here. Thank you for your service.

ElTel · 22-04-2020 04:16PM

tobefrank321 wrote: »

They've found two different strains in the US, among many strains. One strain delivers a low viral load, the other which seems to be affecting New York has a viral load 270 times the milder strain.

The virus is definitely mutating depending on geography and population facts. Its lethality appears to be far worse in dense cities like NYC. It would be interesting to compare deaths per cases in places like NYC and London with less urban areas. Even Wuhan vs Hubei in general might point to something. I don't think they have those stats for Dublin, just deaths in the east.

Mutations are random and happen when the virus replicates. Geography and population density don't come into it.

The deaths per cases would be independent of population density (for the same strain) if hospitals have the same relative ability, equipment and expertise to cope with the cases. I'm assuming here that the demographics are the same for both rural and urban areas.

Yes I've assumed a lot here!

Based on previous viruses, a virus that has easy access to victims in denser cities doesn't need to change behaviour too much to survive and spread.

Again the virus has no say in it's need to change or not.

So its possible the reason for more lethal cases in urban areas is the rapid spread caused by a higher number of victims but also there's no need for the virus to mutate to a milder strain to survive and spread.

Has you mentioned there appears to be one strain that is way more dangerous and this is the prevalent one in Europe and the east coast of the US.

We're all dealing with info overload and understanding of precise science and maths terms. Heck there's probably a few things in this reply that are debatable.

Best of luck to you and yours. Stay safe. This sentiment goes out to all the other boardsies too.

is_that_so · 22-04-2020 04:16PM

New Home wrote: »

I know for a fact that they're completely against bullfights.

Except where they get the first dig in!

timsey tiger · 22-04-2020 04:19PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Until there is a vaccine no one can stop the virus spreading. All you can control is the speed.
Shake your fist at the sky all you want if it makes you feel better.

defeatise unimaginative groupthink. NewZealand

tobefrank321 · 22-04-2020 04:19PM

munsterlegend wrote: »

It’s a bit easier to control movement of animals to be fair. I don’t see cows going on skiing trips or being big into horse racing.

A huge effort was made at borders to control foot and mouth including if I remember banning farmers from moving animals in and out of the country and across the NI border.

Much more than the leaflets handed out in Dublin airport wouldn't you say?

Lets be honest, our efforts at containment and/or eradication were a bit of a joke. We took foot and mouth far more seriously.

quokula · 22-04-2020 04:22PM

tobefrank321 wrote: »

A huge effort was made at borders to control foot and mouth including if I remember banning farmers from moving animals in and out of the country and across the NI border.

Much more than the leaflets handed out in Dublin airport wouldn't you say?

Lets be honest, our efforts at containment and/or eradication were a bit of a joke. We took foot and mouth far more seriously.

There was no reason to allow that. We can't stop people from coming home.

igCorcaigh · 22-04-2020 04:22PM

https://twitter.com/GabrielScally/status/1252949950289371137?s=19

Covid19 Part XVI- 21,983 in ROI (1,339 deaths) 3,881 in NI (404 deaths)(05/05)Read OP

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