Covid19 Part XVI- 21,983 in ROI (1,339 deaths) 3,881 in NI (404 deaths)(05/05)Read OP

Xertz · 22-04-2020 12:59PM

polesheep wrote: »

Yes, we are doing very well. If you remove the nursing homes, then our stats are very good indeed. I say remove the nursing homes not because those lives are in any way less valuable, but because it should be a controllable environment. In fact, if we learn to better manage those areas in society that are most at risk, this shouldn't such a big deal for the rest of society.

The nursing home issue seems to be a huge factor in every EU country. In Belgium for example, more than half of their deaths are occurring in nursing homes and they’re also saying that because they’re officially logging them in the numbers, they’re appearing to have a much worse result than neighbours, but that it’s a more accurate reflection of reality than just counting Hospital deaths.

Some countries are also logging people who’ve died of suspected COVID-19, based on symptoms (and Belgium is one of those) while others are only logging those who’ve had a test while ill or post-mortem.

In general it’s still very difficult to compare country to country as there hasn’t yet been a standardised reporting methodology.

We probably won’t be able to see the reality of it until an international body like the EU actually does a like for like comparison.

https://www.brusselstimes.com/all-news/belgium-all-news/106259/coronavirus-belgium-to-test-all-nursing-homes-and-care-facilities/

It was also repeated in France.

There’s clearly something fundamentally very high risk about nursing homes generally.

I wonder if Sweden is possibly doing something different in that area? Perhaps they’ve a lot more focus on supporting elderly people at home? Or supported living village type approaches?

Also I bet, compared to most cities; Stockholm probably has ample public transport, lots of cycling and walking and has far less capacity issues because the swedes have historically prioritised investment in those things and don’t tend to try and sweat infrastructure investment.

I’m also suspecting cities with overcrowded accommodation have issues - Dublin has definitely bigger issues than most of Ireland. Cork to some degree. London is off the scale on that with really bad accommodation being fairly normalised. Flat shares, house shares etc rather than proper access to apartments.

I worked in a junior media job in London over there 5+ years ago and I ended up having to share a room, never mind a flat. We had one bathroom and 5 people in two bedrooms and a tiny kitchen and it was still costing me as much as I could pay! Admittedly I picked a very expensive area but, I had odd hours and needed to be close to The City and it didn’t bother me as I was hardly ever at home. However, it wasn’t unusual. A lot of my colleagues has awful accommodation. Same with most students.

Also London’s Tube is remarkably tight and busy. The trains are absolutely tiny and it’s completely packed at most times of the day and extremely busy. There were little or no mesures in place to protect passengers until well into the outbreak.

It’s just interesting to note places that rank very highly on liveability and quality of life scales are doing relatively better. We need to start investing in the right things!

PrairieDawn · 22-04-2020 01:01PM

Heard we may have a further garda presence / lock down tomoro.....

petes · 22-04-2020 01:03PM

PrairieDawn wrote: »

Heard we may have a further garda presence / lock down tomoro.....

Go on, which reliable source did you hear this from.

JDD · 22-04-2020 01:05PM

PrairieDawn wrote: »

Heard we may have a further garda presence / lock down tomoro.....

Did you get a WhatsApp from mate's friend who's sister is a garda??:pac::pac:

1 March wants it's post back.

Kermit.de.frog · 22-04-2020 01:05PM

Sweden reports 172 new deaths.

speckle · 22-04-2020 01:06PM

Roger_007 wrote: »

Is ‘normal’ medicine being neglected.
I had to get a prescription renewed this week. I used to see the GP every six months and get my prescription renewed after a physical check by my GP. I rang the surgery and was redirected to another number as my GP is working from home. He explained that he was only doing phone consultations and not physically seeing patients and would email my prescription to the pharmacy.
I mentioned this on a WhatsApp group, (about 20 members), to see if anyone had actually physically seen their GP recently. Three others had a similar experience to me and nobody knew of any GP who was actually seeing patients in their surgeries or clinics.
All this was put into perspective when I listened to the Scottish CMO at yesterday’s presser in Edinburgh. He was saying that there was a worrying drop in referrals by GPs for potentially serious conditions. He said that referrals for symptoms of cancer were down by 70% compared to pre-Covid times.
We also have almost 2000 empty hospital beds according to RTÉ reports yesterday. It looks like ‘normal’ medicine is being largely ignored.

my gp still seeing people. asked questions on phone first. then some are rang back by gp. others have face to face apointments. asked to wait in cars. called in one by one.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! · 22-04-2020 01:09PM

polesheep wrote: »

[/B]

I don't know of anyone who has become desensitised to deaths. In fact, I am hearing more and more anger at how we allowed so many deaths to occur in our elderly population when we could have taken steps to protect them.

When people are saying we're doing really well, yet we seem to be setting and breaking records every week now. That looks like desensitization to me... or just delusion perhaps!

We set new daily death records 3 days out of 7 last week for example... and then we get that monster record of 77 deaths just on monday... and yet we have people on here, saying "ah sure we're doin' grand loike!"

I just find that mentality a bit bonkers tbh... these are real human lives, dying in quite large numbers every single day! We're not doing very well right now... we're losing a huge amount of people to this!

is_that_so · 22-04-2020 01:10PM

HIQA report analysing other testing methods. Basically quite a way to go for them! Report link in this story(all 109 pages!).

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/hiqa-publishes-analysis-of-alternative-covid-19-testing-methods-for-use-in-ireland-995442.html

Juwwi · 22-04-2020 01:10PM

polesheep wrote: »

No reason why the younger GPs in the practice can't see patients. The reason it's hard to see a GP in Ireland is that too many of the newer ones want to work part-time.

How do you you know GP's aren't seeing any patients after a phone conversation when they feel a consultation face to face is needed ?

Also what about the other staff the receptionist ,ect .
Does the younger GP's wife or kids not matter either .

What about the people who show no signs of having the COVID-19 going in with their ingrowing toe nail leaving the COVID everywhere .

Jesus some of the rubbish being posted lately .

is_that_so · 22-04-2020 01:11PM

PrairieDawn wrote: »

Heard we may have a further garda presence / lock down tomoro.....

No, it only happens on Weds at 11.00.

Kermit.de.frog · 22-04-2020 01:14PM

FT saying UK fatalities are more than double what has been reported so far.

https://twitter.com/ChrisGiles_/status/1252841436317315072

22-04-2020 01:18PM

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

Cheap shot...

The average age of GPs in Ireland was 59 in 2019, which puts them in the danger zone for this virus.

I imagine not many checkout staff in Lidl are in the same age cohort.

Which would you prefer... a GP over the phone or no GP at all ?

If they are that vulnerable they shouldn't be doing face to face contact with sick people generally, even before covid. And I know a lot of 50 plus checkout staff who show up for work every day.
Cheap isn't a word most GPS would be familiar with, Rob. What's their rate for an over the phone consultation?

polesheep · 22-04-2020 01:19PM

Juwwi wrote: »

How do you you know GP's aren't seeing any patients after a phone conversation when they feel a consultation face to face is needed ?

Also what about the other staff the receptionist ,ect .
Does the younger GP's wife or kids not matter either .

What about the people who show no signs of having the COVID-19 going in with their ingrowing toe nail leaving the COVID everywhere .

Jesus some of the rubbish being posted lately .

Newsnight on BBC2 last night reported that already 2,700 cancers have been missed in the UK since Covid19 kicked off. How's that for rubbish?

polesheep · 22-04-2020 01:20PM

Juwwi wrote: »

How do you you know GP's aren't seeing any patients after a phone conversation when they feel a consultation face to face is needed ?

Also what about the other staff the receptionist ,ect .
Does the younger GP's wife or kids not matter either .

What about the people who show no signs of having the COVID-19 going in with their ingrowing toe nail leaving the COVID everywhere .

Jesus some of the rubbish being posted lately .

GPs are doctors. Doctors work with the ill. If they aren't prepared to do that then they shouldn't have signed up for it.

Xertz · 22-04-2020 01:21PM

I think though, much like during the early 20th century when we cleared far worse conditions, built environment is going to have to start looking at infection control again. It’s as important as fire regulations

Many cities in Europe and the US had slums and so on and then in the English speaking world in particular we had the Garden City movements in architecture, which actually inspired most of Ireland’s early social housing and suburbanisation as the individual house, garden and green space model that drove or now much maligned urban sprawl.

A lot of that was driven by concerns of polio and TB outbreaks. I think we have become complacent about it in Ireland and plenty of other places too. Standards have been allowed to slip as we’ve just ramped up speculative investment into property. That’s a global issue.

However, I think we could probably do a lot to look at quality of housing and we need to get away from allowing a market driven overcrowding agenda that aimes to make it smaller, tighter and maximise profit per square meter.

Housing is and always was an essential part of public health infrastructure.

Things like coliving pods and all of that stuff is just nonsense. It’s not safe and it’s not an acceptable quality or life either.

podgeandrodge · 22-04-2020 01:21PM

eagle eye wrote: »

I've met one other person, besides myself, on my last two trips to the supermarket who wore a facemask. I just don't get it, are we not trying to ensure we get rid of this thing?

Possibly because community transmission of the virus is close to zero?

Kermit.de.frog · 22-04-2020 01:23PM

UK weekly new deaths (from the FT)

EWL-XfqUMAcau9V?format=png&name=small

is_that_so · 22-04-2020 01:24PM

eagle eye wrote: »

I've met one other person, besides myself, on my last two trips to the supermarket who wore a facemask. I just don't get it, are we not trying to ensure we get rid of this thing?

They are trusting the CMO and HSE, who say the evidence is weak. My own observations have consistently been in the order of 1 in 10 wearing one.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! · 22-04-2020 01:28PM

is_that_so wrote: »

They are trusting the CMO and HSE, who say the evidence is weak. My own observations have consistently been in the order of 1 in 10 wearing one.

Is this the same CMO, who said there was no reason to close the nursing homes to visitors a few weeks back? :rolleyes:

Yeah, I think I'll put my trust in someone with a bit more credibility...

22-04-2020 01:28PM

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

When people are saying we're doing really well, yet we seem to be setting and breaking records every week now. That looks like desensitization to me... or just delusion perhaps!

We set new daily death records 3 days out of 7 last week for example... and then we get that monster record of 77 deaths just on monday... and yet we have people on here, saying "ah sure we're doin' grand loike!"

I just find that mentality a bit bonkers tbh... these are real human lives, dying in quite large numbers every single day! We're not doing very well right now... we're losing a huge amount of people to this!

77 deaths reported which occurred over the previous 2 weeks. There is a lag in reporting all deaths. And deaths will lag cases anyway up to 10-14 days+, so in essence even if 77 deaths occur on a particular day, that represents the new infections from two weeks ago.

Leading indicators of the situation are showing positive signs:
Daily case growth
Hospitalisations
ICU admissions
R0

growleaves · 22-04-2020 01:28PM

UK weekly new deaths (from the FT)

They've switched to recording "all cause excess mortality" figures - so people who weren't even tested for covid-19 are now assumed to have died from it.

UTRIs are among the most common cause of deaths in the world. so colour me unimpressed with this recording metric.

Xertz · 22-04-2020 01:29PM

On the mask thing. I wore one to a supermarket and I had some woman in her 60s decide to have a good laugh and mock me!

“Jesus you’re taking this a bit seriously aren’t you love?”

My observation is that in my local SuperValu in a Cork suburb they’re taking it extremely seriously and I wore a mask and plenty of others were too. There are regular announcements, lots of signage, there’s been trolley cleaning wipes and hand cleaning stuff and so on since the earliest days. Actually they had the trolley cleaning stuff out during flu season, long before any pandemic.

However when you go elsewhere, you can feel the difference.

Retailers either lead or don’t on this and it very definitely sets the stage for people taking it seriously or not.

The “Auld one” snide remark didn’t happen in that supermarket and I don’t think it would have because they’ve set the stage for an atmosphere of taking it seriously!

is_that_so · 22-04-2020 01:30PM

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

Is this the same CMO, who said there was no reason to close the nursing homes to visitors a few weeks back? :rolleyes:

Yeah, I think I'll put my trust in someone with a bit more credibility...

What, like Whatsapp?

bekker · 22-04-2020 01:30PM

Xertz wrote: »

The nursing home issue seems to be a huge factor in every EU country. In Belgium for example, more than half of their deaths are occurring in nursing homes and they’re also saying that because they’re officially logging them in the numbers, they’re appearing to have a much worse result than neighbours, but that it’s a more accurate reflection of reality than just counting Hospital deaths.

Some countries are also logging people who’ve died of suspected COVID-19, based on symptoms (and Belgium is one of those) while others are only logging those who’ve had a test while ill or post-mortem.

In general it’s still very difficult to compare country to country as there hasn’t yet been a standardised reporting methodology.

We probably won’t be able to see the reality of it until an international body like the EU actually does a like for like comparison.

https://www.brusselstimes.com/all-news/belgium-all-news/106259/coronavirus-belgium-to-test-all-nursing-homes-and-care-facilities/

It was also repeated in France.

There’s clearly something fundamentally very high risk about nursing homes generally.

I wonder if Sweden is possibly doing something different in that area? Perhaps they’ve a lot more focus on supporting elderly people at home? Or supported living village type approaches?

Also I bet, compared to most cities; Stockholm probably has ample public transport, lots of cycling and walking and has far less capacity issues because the swedes have historically prioritised investment in those things and don’t tend to try and sweat infrastructure investment.

I’m also suspecting cities with overcrowded accommodation have issues - Dublin has definitely bigger issues than most of Ireland. Cork to some degree. London is off the scale on that with really bad accommodation being fairly normalised. Flat shares, house shares etc rather than proper access to apartments.

I worked in a junior media job in London over there 5+ years ago and I ended up having to share a room, never mind a flat. We had one bathroom and 5 people in two bedrooms and a tiny kitchen and it was still costing me as much as I could pay! Admittedly I picked a very expensive area but, I had odd hours and needed to be close to The City and it didn’t bother me as I was hardly ever at home. However, it wasn’t unusual. A lot of my colleagues has awful accommodation. Same with most students.

Also London’s Tube is remarkably tight and busy. The trains are absolutely tiny and it’s completely packed at most times of the day and extremely busy. There were little or no mesures in place to protect passengers until well into the outbreak.

It’s just interesting to note places that rank very highly on liveability and quality of life scales are doing relatively better. We need to start investing in the right things!

More than half of Swedish households are single-person, making social distancing easier to carry out. More people work from home than anywhere else in Europe, and everyone has access to fast Internet, which helps large chunks of the workforce stay productive away from the office. source Bloomberg

There is criticism in Sweden over deaths in nursing homes and government experts admit they didn't do enough. Guardian/Telegraph AFAIR

It's also being reported that there is strong socio-economic split in case numbers.

Kermit.de.frog · 22-04-2020 01:31PM

growleaves wrote: »

They've switched to recording "all cause excess mortality" figures - so people who weren't even tested for covid-19 are now assumed to have died from it.

UTRIs are among the most common causes of deaths in the world. so colour me unimpressed with this recording metric.

You need to write an urgent letter to the Financial Times to correct them.

https://twitter.com/ChrisGiles_/status/1252843559742402567

growleaves · 22-04-2020 01:32PM

If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to see it, is covid-19 still responsible?

growleaves · 22-04-2020 01:33PM

You need to write an urgent letter to the Financial Times to correct them.

My friend wrote a letter to them the other day and they didn't print it.

is_that_so · 22-04-2020 01:33PM

growleaves wrote: »

If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to see it, is covid-19 still responsible?

It's the gubberment to blame cos it should have been locked down!

Kermit.de.frog · 22-04-2020 01:34PM

growleaves wrote: »

If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to see it, is covid-19 still responsible?

This is under lock down conditions as well which makes it even more remarkable - less accidents.

growleaves · 22-04-2020 01:35PM

If NYC and UK juice their figures with "all cause excess mortality" thrown in and Sweden don't, its going to make lockdown seem a bit mad isn't it?

If the figures are streamlined to a standardised method of reporting across countries, we will still have accurate comparisons whatever the raw numbers.

Covid19 Part XVI- 21,983 in ROI (1,339 deaths) 3,881 in NI (404 deaths)(05/05)Read OP

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