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The UK response to Covid-19 [MOD WARNING 1ST POST]

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Comments

  • #4022
    Enzokk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,060 ✭✭✭Enzokk


    Aegir wrote: »
    you clearly have an isue with the English language then.
    Enzokk wrote: »
    It was mentioned in the article the hospitals were looking to make space in their critical care wards. My assumption is because they had other coronavirus patients in the medical wards who may deteriorate and need further intervention that is done in ICU.

    Remember how Johnson went from admission to hospital to the next day being moved to ICU? There was a bed open in ICU to facilitate this, and this is what the hospitals are trying to manage and ensure the patients that need to be receive assistance, whether from CPAP or a ventilator has access to this in the hospital.

    Patients aren't sent to the Nightingale Hospital before they are serious,



    https://www.nightingale-london.nhs.uk/about-us

    it has only ever been an overflow hospital to help if the main hospitals become overwhelmed. this has not happened.



    so a guess then.

    Nothing to do with the OPEL system?

    But as the Guardian hasn't shared the document it claims to have seen, we will never know.


    It's hard to follow your posts as you seem to be struggling getting the quote feature right. What we are discussing doesn't matter in any case because you haven't seen the Guardian documents so you don't believe the story.

    I don't know why you are mentioning OPEL, do you just google stuff and throw them in when you see something that is in the area we are discussing?

    I don't know what the purpose of the Nightingale Hospital has to do with what we are discussing, unless you are saying the hospitals are sending patients, or trying to send patients to the hospital, if it is not needed. You are very close to blaming the NHS staff for the shortage of PPE at this stage.


  • #4023
    CelticRambler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,337 ✭✭✭CelticRambler


    Aegir wrote: »
    TL:DR version

    da Brits are doing it, must find criticism.

    :confused: How does support for the Cambridge team's prudent approach constitute criticism of the Brits. Last time I looked, Cambridge was still British.


  • #4024
    VinLieger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,174 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I find the term "they have peaked", a very worrying and dangerous thought.

    Monday we had 77 deaths the highest in one day so far. People will be saying we have peaked and then restrictions will be lifted, until that figure is dwarfed by the figure in a few weeks when everyone is out and about again.

    We honestly won't know when a country has peaked until a few months have passed.

    You do know the 77 deaths all didnt happen on that one day? Its an aberrant spike due to reporting issues meaning its a collection of deaths from the previous 4 days that had not been reported.


  • #4025
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,434 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    The National Records Scotland has released the 3rd data set for deaths in Scotland which are confirmed COVID-19 and those which are suspected. The data cut off is Sunday, 19th April and the deaths show 1,616 versus the 915 announced on Sunday from deaths in hospital

    https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/covid19stats

    The dash line below is the daily cumulative from hospitals

    Capture.jpg

    Breakdown of the 1,616 shows

    Capture.jpg

    The 1 in 'other institution' is in prison


  • #4026
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,853 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    CelticRambler wrote: »
    :confused: How does support for the Cambridge team's prudent approach constitute criticism of the Brits. Last time I looked, Cambridge was still British.

    I was referring to your post.

    The fact that there is trials is good news, is it not?


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  • #4027
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,434 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Scotland:
    In hospital: 1,776 (-90)
    In ICU: 155 (-11)
    Total confirmed cases: 9,038 (+366)
    Total deaths with confirmed COVID-19: 1,062 (+77)

    Therefore as it stands, there are a minimum of 1,763 (1,062+701) deaths in Scotland (confirmed and suspected)


  • #4028
    Enzokk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,060 ✭✭✭Enzokk


    Raab in PMQ's, seems like he doesn't want a judge led inquiry into the pandemic and response of the UK Government. There are lessons to be learned from the crises though. Wonder how they will know what lessons are to be learned if there are no inquiries on what actually happened and where they went wrong?

    Also, Raab was asked on the testing and how they are going to get to 100 000 tests in 8 days, he tried to move the goalposts by talking about the current capacity and showing the gap isn't that big, only 60 000 instead of the actual 80 000 difference. Basically more skirting the questions and not providing answers.


  • #4029
    Joe_ Public
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    Raab looks to me like a guy who just desperately wants his leader back. Withdraw back into the shadows where he wants to be for the time being.


  • #4030
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 11,642 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    VinLieger wrote: »
    You do know the 77 deaths all didnt happen on that one day? Its an aberrant spike due to reporting issues meaning its a collection of deaths from the previous 4 days that had not been reported.

    Government stats don't back that up: https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/20f2e0-updates-on-covid-19-coronavirus-since-january-2020/

    According to that site:

    April 20 - 77
    April 19 - 39
    April 18 - 41
    April 17 - 44

    What is your source for it being an aberrant spike? I can only work off of reported numbers.


  • #4031
    VinLieger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,174 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Government stats don't back that up: https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/20f2e0-updates-on-covid-19-coronavirus-since-january-2020/

    According to that site:

    April 20 - 77
    April 19 - 39
    April 18 - 41
    April 17 - 44

    What is your source for it being an aberrant spike? I can only work off of reported numbers.

    Yes because thats the day they were reported to the NPHET.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/coronavirus-20-april-numbers-5079009-Apr2020/
    Chief Medical Officer Dr Tony Holohan said the large number of deaths reported today does not mean the deaths occurred in the past 24 hours, but rather it is the number of notifications that the National Public Health Emergency Team (NPHET) received.

    They have never claimed the reported numbers were indicative of only being deaths from the last 24 hours, thats you making an unfounded assumption.

    And heres the graph showing exactly when each of those 77 deaths actually occurred.

    https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/coronavirus-deaths-ireland-latest-figures-21899725


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  • #4032
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 11,642 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    VinLieger wrote: »
    Yes because thats the day they were reported to the NPHET.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/coronavirus-20-april-numbers-5079009-Apr2020/



    They have never claimed the reported numbers were indicative of only being deaths from the last 24 hours, thats you making an unfounded assumption.

    And heres the graph showing exactly when each of those 77 deaths actually occurred.

    https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/coronavirus-deaths-ireland-latest-figures-21899725

    Fair enough I wasn't aware of those comments, but I watched the news and they said something along the lines of "Deaths today reached 77". Again, Im just going on what I had read/heard.

    Suggesting it's an unfounded assumption is a bit harsh.


  • #4033
    VinLieger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,174 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Fair enough I wasn't aware of those comments, but I watched the news and they said something along the lines of "Deaths today reached 77". Again, Im just going on what I had read/heard.

    Suggesting it's an unfounded assumption is a bit harsh.


    Fair enough, apologies unfortunately used to dealing with some aggro anti irish stuff in this thread.


  • #4034
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,853 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    VinLieger wrote: »
    Fair enough, apologies unfortunately used to dealing with some aggro anti irish stuff in this thread.

    Anti Irish?

    Please give an example.


  • #4035
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,136 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Aegir, what are your thoughts on the governments continued failure to get on top of the numbers from care homes?

    Do you think it is acceptable that after so many weeks they still have no idea of the real numbers?


  • #4036
    Enzokk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,060 ✭✭✭Enzokk


    WTAF, Hancock was asked what the advice was that has the UK stating people that has tested positive to come out of lockdown after 7 days when the WHO advice is 14 days.

    The answer, SAGE is a advisory committee and it advises ministers and the government follows the science advice and the science was for 7 days and the government followed that advice.

    So the reason the UK follows a different recommendation than the WHO is the science from the SAGE group. Why are they so reticent to let people see the advice they were given?


  • #4037
    Joe_ Public
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    He's now claiming in answer to Jeremy Corbyn that they are among the world leaders when it comes to testing. 'We've had our foot on the gas" since the start, he claims. Not that long ago only 2,000 nhs staff out of 500,000 had been tested.


  • #4038
    RobMc59
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭RobMc59


    VinLieger wrote: »
    Fair enough, apologies unfortunately used to dealing with some aggro anti irish stuff in this thread.

    That's the most jaw dropping statement I've ever read on any of the multitude of anti British threads!


  • #4039
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,392 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Interesting article by Professor Tomlinson at Queens University Belfast on why the RoI's death rate is 66% that of NI. From the article:

    The main differences between the North and the Republic emerged in the first three weeks of March as the British and Irish governments took different approaches to the cancellation of mass gatherings, the closure of schools and universities, and other lockdown measures.

    The differences, particularly over school closures, caused political friction in the North but the key policy difference was revealed on March 12th when the British announced the “contain phase” was over and that testing for the Covid-19 infection would henceforth be largely confined to hospital admissions. Contact tracing ceased. Policy became focused almost entirely on managing hospital and intensive care unit capacity.

    Meanwhile the Irish Government moved in the opposite direction. From early March testing and contact tracing were expanded through dozens of community-based facilities and by the end of March the Republic was testing at more than twice the British rate. Chief Medical Officer Dr Holohan repeatedly emphasised the priority of saving lives.

    And:

    The graphs show death rates per million of population for the North and the Republic and also hospital-based deaths. In both examples the Republic’s death rate is two-thirds that in the North.

    This is the clearest evidence we have that the different approaches to tackling the Covid-19 outbreak are resulting in different outcomes. This may change as the pandemic progresses but for now it is reasonable to assume that the North’s higher death rates result from lower rates of testing, the lack of contact tracing and the slower application of lockdown measures compared with the Republic.


  • #4040
    Enzokk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,060 ✭✭✭Enzokk


    Back to the UK and the EU schemes, seems like they are not participating in any of the 4 schemes.

    EU rejects Matt Hancock’s claims that UK is part of bloc’s PPE scheme
    The EU has refuted comments from Matt Hancock that the UK has taken part in its Personal Protective Equipment (PPE) bulk-buying scheme.

    Health secretary Hancock told reporters on Tuesday that his department had accepted an invitation to join the EU joint PPE procurement scheme as an “associate” and had “yet to receive any PPE from it”.

    He was speaking after top civil servant in the foreign office Sir Simon McDonald told the foreign affairs select committee it was a “matter of fact” that the government had not joined any EU schemes.

    The EU Commission has hit out saying the minister’s claims are incorrect.

    In a virtual press briefing, EU commission spokesperson Stefan De Keersmaecker explained the UK government was a signatory of an agreement to join the scheme but had failed to partake in a single procurement drive since the coronavirus outbreak.

    He said: “In the context of the coronavirus, the Commission launched four such joint procurements (two on PPE, one on ventilators and one on laboratory equipment).

    “The UK is not participating in any of these procedures, but is most welcome to join in any future procedures.”

    So let's recap what has happened since yesterday afternoon. The UK made a political decision to decline joining the schemes until it didn't. Then it had joined the subsequent schemes until it seems they haven't actually.


  • #4041
    Joe_ Public
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    And now hancock cant answer a straight question about how community cases because they dont know. And they dont know because they haven't been testing in the community. This despite telling us they were among the worlds leaders just 5 minutes before. I dont know how he says all this with a straight face.


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  • #4042
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,462 ✭✭✭blinding


    Joe_ Public wrote: »
    He's now claiming in answer to Jeremy Corbyn that they are among the world leaders when it comes to testing. 'We've had our foot on the gas" since the start, he claims. Not that long ago only 2,000 nhs staff out of 500,000 had been tested.
    Did the Labour party not do Jeremy Corbyn in ? ?

    Starmer is in big trouble if Jeremy is still running the Show ! ! !


  • #4043
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,853 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    Aegir, what are your thoughts on the governments continued failure to get on top of the numbers from care homes?

    Do you think it is acceptable that after so many weeks they still have no idea of the real numbers?

    They do know. It is all in the ONS stats.


  • #4044
    Joe_ Public
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    blinding wrote: »
    Did the Labour party not do Jeremy Corbyn in ? ?

    Starmer is in big trouble if Jeremy is still running the Show ! ! !

    Not pmqs. Just an ordinary backbencher question.


  • #4045
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,136 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Aegir wrote: »
    They do know. It is all in the ONS stats.

    What are the stats for yesterday so?

    I assume you are being deliberately disingenuous. The ONS stats only go to the 10th April, so they are now 12 days out of date.


  • #4046
    VinLieger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,174 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Aegir wrote: »
    Anti Irish?

    Please give an example.


    Not to get too off topic but you asked heres just a small example of some



    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=113148296&postcount=2898


    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=113149079&postcount=2943


    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=113148876&postcount=2934


    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=113211835&postcount=3588


    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=113211963&postcount=3593


    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=113211738&postcount=3585


  • #4047
    VinLieger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,174 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Aegir wrote: »
    They do know. It is all in the ONS stats.


    Yet they wont announce them as official numbers alongside hospital deaths? Why? Are they not confident in the data?


  • #4048
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,136 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    blinding wrote: »
    Did the Labour party not do Jeremy Corbyn in ? ?

    Starmer is in big trouble if Jeremy is still running the Show ! ! !

    No, the electorate voted against his policies and he resigned his position.


  • #4049
    Enzokk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,060 ✭✭✭Enzokk


    Joe_ Public wrote: »
    And now hancock cant answer a straight question about how community cases because they dont know. And they dont know because they haven't been testing in the community. This despite telling us they were among the worlds leaders just 5 minutes before. I dont know how he says all this with a straight face.

    Was this in answer to test, track and trace and relaxing the lockdown?

    He doesn't know the numbers in the community as testing has not been widespread enough but it is far far higher than it needs to be. But they are at the peak, they are at the peak without knowing the numbers in the community. They need to see fewer new cases to see that track and trace is working for them to see about relaxing the measures that is currently in place

    I will remind everyone that they don't know the numbers because testing isn't widespread enough yet.

    blinding wrote: »
    Did the Labour party not do Jeremy Corbyn in ? ?

    Starmer is in big trouble if Jeremy is still running the Show ! ! !


    Any MP can ask questions, not just the leader, :)


  • #4050
    theological
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,831 ✭✭✭theological


    VinLieger wrote: »
    Not to get too off topic but you asked heres just a small example of some



    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=113148296&postcount=2898


    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=113149079&postcount=2943


    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=113148876&postcount=2934


    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=113211835&postcount=3588


    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=113211963&postcount=3593


    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=113211738&postcount=3585

    This is silly. It'd be better to stick to the facts (and avoiding personalising the argument or making speculative claims).

    I'm Irish and I largely fall on the same side of the argument as Aegir. In that this is a tragic virus that is taking lives and that the UK is largely following the same trajectory of other large European countries with the exception of Germany which has done incredibly well so far.


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  • #4051
    Memnoch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,276 ✭✭✭Memnoch


    Aegir wrote: »
    They do know. It is all in the ONS stats.

    This is a lie. And it will remain a lie no matter how many times you repeat it. The lack of integrity of these figures has been repeatedly pointed out to you yet you will continue to deliberately ignore it so it is time to call a spade a spade and your lies for what they are.

    https://www.ft.com/content/67e6a4ee-3d05-43bc-ba03-e239799fa6ab
    UK coronavirus deaths more than double official figure according to FT study

    The coronavirus pandemic has already caused as many as 41,000 deaths in the UK, according to a Financial Times analysis of the latest data from the Office for National Statistics.

    The estimate is more than double the official figure of 17,337 released by ministers on Tuesday, which is updated daily and only counts those who have died in hospitals after testing positive for the virus.


This discussion has been closed.
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