The UK response to Covid-19 [MOD WARNING 1ST POST]

20-04-2020 11:34PM

BonnieSituation wrote: »

250000? Is that it?

Seriously?

That was last week

https://twitter.com/royalairforce/status/1249020386236346368?s=21

devnull · 20-04-2020 11:39PM

Aegir wrote: »

That was last week

https://twitter.com/royalairforce/status/1249020386236346368?s=21

So why did DHSC not tweet about it on 18th and not disclose that it was in fact, rehashed and old news?

Could it be that because of the bad press they were getting for PPE, the DHSC decided that to publish a story about PPE being delivered a week ago and not disclosing that in the tweet, would give an impression that new PPE was coming in at that point in time when it actually was not?

Doesn't do much for their credibility if that's the case.

blinding · 20-04-2020 11:41PM

How can a developed Country the size of Britain and many more leave themselves in the situation that they cannot manufacture Medical Grade PPE when they desperately need it for their own Country.

I am going to assume a lot of this PPE is machine made or could be machine made so that it would not even be that expensive to produce in Britain or other Countries .

The selling of the Soul to Globalisation is going to kill a lot of people , many of them health care professionals .

We have gone through an era of ‘ Knowing the Price of everything and the Value of nothing ":eek::eek:

One can only hope we have a re-set of what is important:eek:

declanflynn · 20-04-2020 11:42PM

Aegir wrote: »

That was last week

https://twitter.com/royalairforce/status/1249020386236346368?s=21

That works out at 0.65 pieces per NHS frontline worker, someone in the uk will have to take their finger out very soon

20-04-2020 11:47PM

devnull wrote: »

So why did DHSC not tweet about it on 18th and not disclose that it was in fact, rehashed and old news?

Could it be that because of the bad press they were getting for PPE, the DHSC decided that to publish a story about PPE being delivered a week ago and not disclosing that in the tweet, would give an impression that new PPE was coming in at that point in time when it actually was not?

Doesn't do much for their credibility if that's the case.

Deliveries of PPE are arriving regularly. For some reason the latest shipment from Turkey has caught the media’s attention.

The uk sent aid to Turkey for use in Syrian refugee camps as part of the deal.

A shipment of gowns arrived from Myanmar today. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/news/11439741/nhs-ppe-140k-gowns-myanmar-coronavirus/amp/

declanflynn · 20-04-2020 11:57PM

Aegir wrote: »

Deliveries of PPE are arriving regularly. For some reason the latest shipment from Turkey has caught the media’s attention.

The uk sent aid to Turkey for use in Syrian refugee camps as part of the deal.

A shipment of gowns arrived from Myanmar today. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/news/11439741/nhs-ppe-140k-gowns-myanmar-coronavirus/amp/

That's half a gown per front line worker and in more good news for the UK, Mrs Smith from Bolton knited a pair of gloves for front line workers

BonnieSituation · 21-04-2020 12:01AM

Aegir wrote: »

That was last week

https://twitter.com/royalairforce/status/1249020386236346368?s=21

It was such a good story that they had to tell us twice!

Surely you can't approve of such underhanded reportage?

Junkyard Tom · 21-04-2020 12:01AM

blinding wrote: »

How can a developed Country the size of Britain and many more leave themselves in the situation that they cannot manufacture Medical Grade PPE when they desperately need it for their own Country.

They wouldn't be able to compete with other countries unless they put a huge tariff on imports from places like China and Turkey.

Also, wasn't Britain supposed to be embracing trade/competition with the rest of the world where most of the future growth is predicted?

Methinks it's a case of wanting to have a cake after the horse has bolted.

blinding · 21-04-2020 12:05AM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

They wouldn't be able to compete with other countries unless they put a huge tariff on imports from places like China and Turkey.

Also, wasn't Britain supposed to be embracing trade/competition with the rest of the world where most of the future growth is predicted?

Methinks it's a case of wanting to have a cake after the horse has bolted.

Medical Grade PPE needs to be exempt from such practices. Sure, have competition within your own Country but relying on Medical Grade PPE from abroad in a Crisis has turned into a Sh!t Show. A Shambles !

21-04-2020 12:12AM

BonnieSituation wrote: »

It was such a good story that they had to tell us twice!

Surely you can't approve of such underhanded reportage?

They are telling it once, but it is happening twice. a delivery was made last week from Turkey. A delivery of gowns arrived today and the government chartered a BA jet to pick up PPE from China three days ago.

LuckyLloyd · 21-04-2020 12:15AM

bob mcbob wrote: »

An antibody study in Santa Clara California has indicated that for every confirmed Covid case, there could be up to 80 undiagnosed / untested cases (mild or asymptomatic).

Using this figure, even under lock down, there could be 20K people per day getting this in Scotland and in total roughly 15% of the population has had it.

Christy42 wrote: »

That would be great news. Antibodies would indicate some level of immunity and that many people having indicates a much smaller death rate than previously believed.

However I would express caution about reading too much into a single result.

Stanford study completely wrong, bad science with hasty maths:

https://statmodeling.stat.columbia.edu/2020/04/19/fatal-flaws-in-stanford-study-of-coronavirus-prevalence/

21-04-2020 12:16AM

blinding wrote: »

Medical Grade PPE needs to be exempt from such practices. Sure, have competition within your own Country but relying on Medical Grade PPE from abroad in a Crisis has turned into a Sh!t Show. A Shambles !

That’s the nature of globalization though. A company like 3m, for example, won’t make all their products in all of their factories, each one will specialize in a certain range. They might produce respirators in the UK, surgical equipment in the US and eye protection in China.

devnull · 21-04-2020 12:21AM

Now you're getting lost in your own spin and deflection.

First Enzo pointed out a tweet from the DHSC on 18th March

Enzokk wrote: »

How is the Turkey PPE equipment coming along? Why has there been a delay? Turkey has no problem shipping PPE to the UK, so why the sudden delay over the weekend? Almost like they weren't prepared for the order or something?

https://twitter.com/DHSCgovuk/status/1251420198286090240?s=20

BonnieSituation responded with

BonnieSituation wrote: »

250000? Is that it?

Seriously?

You responded with a tweet from the Royal Air Force from 11th

Aegir wrote: »

That was last week

https://twitter.com/royalairforce/status/1249020386236346368?s=21

BonnieSituation responded with

BonnieSituation wrote: »

It was such a good story that they had to tell us twice!

Surely you can't approve of such underhanded reportage?

Now you tell us

Aegir wrote: »

They are telling it once, but it is happening twice. a delivery was made last week from Turkey.

So back to the original point, which is why did DHSC tweet about it on 18th and not disclose that it was in fact, rehashed and old news?

Could it be that because of the bad press they were getting for lack of PPE, the DHSC decided to publish a story about PPE being delivered a week ago and not disclosing that fact it was a week ago to give a misleading impression that new PPE was coming in on the 18th when it actually was nothing of the sort?

BonnieSituation · 21-04-2020 12:21AM

Aegir wrote: »

They are telling it once, but it is happening twice. a delivery was made last week from Turkey. A delivery of gowns arrived today and the government chartered a BA jet to pick up PPE from China three days ago.

There are two tweets. They are telling us twice.

So is it 500000 items of PPE delivered then?

Or is the 250000 split over multiple flights?

Honestly, I didn't really care, I just thought it was so funny how they will obfuscate even good news. They don't even know why they are spinning anymore!

That you got all shirty about it AGAIN speaks volumes.

21-04-2020 12:45AM

BonnieSituation wrote: »

There are two tweets. They are telling us twice.

So is it 500000 items of PPE delivered then?

Or is the 250000 split over multiple flights?

Honestly, I didn't really care, I just thought it was so funny how they will obfuscate even good news. They don't even know why they are spinning anymore!

That you got all shirty about it AGAIN speaks volumes.

I misread the DHSC tweet, I presumed they were tweeting about the stuff that was supposed to arrive Sunday.

But anyway, should the uk government not get congratulated the way the Scottish government did? Thu are getting regular deliveries it seems.

BonnieSituation · 21-04-2020 12:47AM

Aegir wrote: »

I misread the DHSC tweet, I presumed they were tweeting about the stuff that was supposed to arrive Sunday.

But anyway, should the uk government not get congratulated the way the Scottish government did? Thu are getting regular deliveries it seems.

I dunno? Should they?

I mean, remember when the Scots were told to go it alone and get stuff because England has priority a few weeks back.

So, I dunno, should we congratulate a government for doing their job? Has the bar sunk so low?

Beasty · 21-04-2020 12:48AM

declanflynn wrote: »

Did ye get it?

declanflynn wrote: »

Any news on the ppe from Turkey?

declanflynn wrote: »

I'm going to ring the Turkish barber in town and see if he can hurry up that ppe.

declanflynn wrote: »

Its some mess on the mainland this on top of the ppe that never arrived from Turkey, it's now being reported that there are 60 countries doing more testing than the uk

declanflynn wrote: »

That works out at 0.65 pieces per NHS frontline worker, someone in the uk will have to take their finger out very soon

declanflynn wrote: »

That's half a gown per front line worker and in more good news for the UK, Mrs Smith from Bolton knited a pair of gloves for front line workers

Do not post in this thread again

21-04-2020 12:50AM

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I dunno? Should they?

I mean, remember when the Scots were told to go it alone and get stuff because England has priority a few weeks back.

they weren’t told that

BonnieSituation wrote: »

, I dunno, should we congratulate a government for doing their job? Has the bar sunk so low?

You did the Scottish government

Double standards?

Edit : Apologies that was a poster who it seems can no longer respond.

BonnieSituation · 21-04-2020 12:56AM

Aegir wrote: »

they weren’t told that

Oh no?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/14/scotland-wales-concerned-over-reports-nhs-england-is-prioritised-for-coronavirus-ppe

There was also a form doing the rounds that I recall stated that Scottish and Welsh orders need to go elsewhere. I can't find it at this remove.

But the point is clear.

Unless you can tell me what was "meant" if they didn't say "that"?

Aegir wrote: »

You did the Scottish government

Double standards?

Below is every post I have made since I asked about the Scottish delivery.

Please tell me where I congratulated anyone?

Point to the double standards? Thank you.

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Was that UK or Scot Gov sourced?

BonnieSituation wrote: »

250000? Is that it?

Seriously?

BonnieSituation wrote: »

It was such a good story that they had to tell us twice!

Surely you can't approve of such underhanded reportage?

BonnieSituation wrote: »

There are two tweets. They are telling us twice.

So is it 500000 items of PPE delivered then?

Or is the 250000 split over multiple flights?

Honestly, I didn't really care, I just thought it was so funny how they will obfuscate even good news. They don't even know why they are spinning anymore!

That you got all shirty about it AGAIN speaks volumes.

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I dunno? Should they?

I mean, remember when the Scots were told to go it alone and get stuff because England has priority a few weeks back.

So, I dunno, should we congratulate a government for doing their job? Has the bar sunk so low?

---

EDIT: Apology noted

21-04-2020 01:11AM

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Oh no?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/14/scotland-wales-concerned-over-reports-nhs-england-is-prioritised-for-coronavirus-ppe

There was also a form doing the rounds that I recall stated that Scottish and Welsh orders need to go elsewhere. I can't find it at this remove

That form referred to a statement on a companies website saying they were distributing it on behalf of public health England (as in it belonged to NHS England) and therefore could not distribute it to NHS Wales or Scotland.

The regions are working together to obtain the PPE, but distribution is regional.

21-04-2020 01:19AM

In case you want more info

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/scottish-government-expert-says-sorry-21875633

Enzokk · 21-04-2020 07:15AM

Aegir wrote: »

In case you want more info

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/scottish-government-expert-says-sorry-21875633

You do realise that he is apologising for dismissing the story out of hand when it first appeared? There are still questions to be asked though, why did this company state on their website that,

The website of Gompels HealthCare had said the gowns and masks it sells in the fight against Coronavirus could only be accessed by organisations in England.

So we are back again at the discussion of tests versus capacity. The NHS in Scotland and Wales were not treated as second hand citizens due to priority given to NHS England, but care homes in those countries?

Some information on care homes,

This article is more than 6 months old
84% of care home beds in England owned by private firms

Care homes for older Europeans: Public, for-profit and non-profit providers

Page 10 - Scotland has around 87% of care homes run as private. This is not to score a point, as you will see most European nations seems to have let the care for the elder population to the private sector including Ireland.

So then we have to discuss this story in the context it is, Scotland care homes couldn't obtain supplies because Public Health England was taking the supplies ahead of Scotland and Wales. It seems the MD at one of the companies didn't deny this,

PPE firm defends decision to ‘divert essential kit’ from Scotland to England during coronavirus epidemic

Sam Gompels, managing director of Gompels HealthCare - a Wiltshire-based PPE distributor - said it was not Public Health England’s (PHE) fault that Scottish health authorities were too slow to establish distribution channels and that the health body had a right to demand the equipment remain within its borders.

He said: “We love Scottish care homes dearly and we always have done. We will do our best to supply them, but, there must be a Scottish scheme and the questions should really be asked of the Scottish authorities or public health Scotland, whatever the equivalent is.

“The fact is Public Health England got their finger out and organised these distribution channels and are getting pilloried for it because public health Scotland, or whatever the equivalent is, have not necessarily organised the same and that’s probably the nub of it.”

The good news is that on the back of the coverage this decision was reversed,

Scotland can get protective kit from English manufacturers

English companies have lifted restrictions against supplying personal protective equipment to Scottish care homes after confusion over who should be first in line for the kit.

Officials from the UK Department of Health and Social Care called suppliers on Tuesday after The Times reported concerns raised about the availability of PPE by representatives of the care sector. It is understood that the message was conveyed that no nation over the UK should be given priority over any other.

So the story that was vehemently denied and the Scottish expert who was used to deny the story at the daily press briefing has come out to apologise for his part in that, was in fact true. The good news is that it was acted on but the UK Government response was to deny this was true, again. So why should we believe them on the story about creating fake accounts when they have shown they are capable to mislead on the truth?

silverharp · 21-04-2020 08:28AM

Reports the UK govt has been setting up fake twitter accounts of nurses praising their handling of the Covid-19 crisis.

https://twitter.com/jdpoc/status/1252266724449230848

theological · 21-04-2020 08:36AM

Yes we've been through this one already a few pages ago.

It looks like Denmark is looking at permitting gatherings up to 500 people by the 10th of May.

Looking back to my point about the differences within the cabinet on easing the lockdown this will simply add to the pressure to start easing after the next extension. (I think there is one more in the pipeline).

RasTa · 21-04-2020 08:41AM

A deaf, trans junior doctor? Has to be someone taking the P

Leroy42 · 21-04-2020 08:41AM

Theo, has the Sunday Times revelations about Johnson missing multiple Cobra meetings, along with the stuff about lack of preparedness caused you any pause in your opinion that the UK goverment were making all the right decisions?

S.M.B. · 21-04-2020 08:46AM

NHS seems worried about the effect of formally recommending mask wearing to the general public on their supplies.

It's not great that supplies are so low an difficult to get hold on but why not suggest home made masks or get British industry to start producing similarly basic masks for public consumption.

We should not wear masks because we don't have enough is not a great position to be in.

S.M.B. · 21-04-2020 08:52AM

theological wrote: »

Yes we've been through this one already a few pages ago.

It looks like Denmark is looking at permitting gatherings up to 500 people by the 10th of May.

Looking back to my point about the differences within the cabinet on easing the lockdown this will simply add to the pressure to start easing after the next extension. (I think there is one more in the pipeline).

Danish government is saying these claims are false (will be banned until at least September).

theological · 21-04-2020 08:56AM

S.M.B. wrote: »

Danish government is saying these claims are false (will be banned until at least September).

Interesting I see the Guardian have updated their live feed also. Thanks.

Peregrinus · 21-04-2020 09:06AM

theological wrote: »

Yes we've been through this one already a few pages ago.

It looks like Denmark is looking at permitting gatherings up to 500 people by the 10th of May.

Looking back to my point about the differences within the cabinet on easing the lockdown this will simply add to the pressure to start easing after the next extension. (I think there is one more in the pipeline).

I don't see why what they decide to do in Denmark should put any pressure on the UK authorities (any more than what they decide to do in the UK should put any pressure on the Danish authorities). It seems to me that decisions (in any country) about relaxing the lockdown (before the availability of a vaccine) will depend on two factors:

1. Has the country concerned passed the peak? Has it succeeding in reducing the transmission rate (the number of new infections resulting from each existing infection) to significantly below 1, and stabilising it there? If the answer to either of these questions is "no", then it's obviously premature to consider easing measures to counter infection within the community. But if the answer is "yes", then move on to question 2.

2. Does the country have the resources, system, supplies, etc to test widely and contact-trace agressively, so that if new instances of community transmission arise after the lockdown is relaxed they can be identified immediately, and appropriate action taken (including selective or local reimposition of lockdown measures, if appropriate)? Again, if the answer is "no", it's premature to relax the lockdown.

Each country has to answer these questions for itself, and the answers will be independent of the answers to the same questions in other countries. Those who suggest that, if the answers in Denmark are "yes", the answers in the UK must also be "yes" should be smiled at in a tolerant but condescending manner.

The UK response to Covid-19 [MOD WARNING 1ST POST]

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